Myth Buster: make a veno to get rich....

Vinat - Sanctuary

everyone either doesnt know or has neglected to mention the fact that the entire concept of "veno as money maker" was based off of other versions of the game where ANY PET EGG could be NPC'D for a few thousand coin. venos could go and tame the non-rare pets all day and npc them and make a lot of money without having to kill anything or rely on any drops whatsoever.

they changed that for this version. we all know eggs npc for 1 coin here.

everything else, soloing tt, low repairs, not needing charms.. these are all new justifications people here came up with to support the myth that really should have been abandoned along with that other version of the game.

Karst - Dreamweaver

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, rich is in the mind of the individual.

Well said. Or like the more popular version, /thread .

Isala - Sanctuary

Honestly, arguing over this is going to get us nowhere. There are misconceptions from all sides, and the arguments don't change. It's the same as the argument about the "Easiest" class. Fingers point to Venos, when even the other classes laugh and say "LOLNUB." Each class has its advantages, and just because Venos have a built in tank, it doesn't mean they're the "God Class"...

As had been said before, the easiest, and simplest way to make money, which allows you to get better things, which allows you to be a better player is to play one class, and one class only. The Catshop Class. And here's a neat little tidbit. I know a Barb in his 70s who is sitting on Millions. Last I checked, he said he had somewhere between 10 and 15 Mil floating around in various assets and coins. Meanwhile, he's pimped out in full TT gear, including weapon, so it's not like he's even being cheap on his gear. A barb, people. Supposedly the poorest class in the game, sitting on more cash than most of the equal level Venos, which are supposedly the richest in the game. Why? Because he uses his head. That's how you make money. You get smart.

LeirtA - Lost City

I just finished a FC run a couple of days ago with a squad consisting of a BM (8x), archer (9x), cleric (9x), barb (8x), wiz (8x) and my veno (88 back then). It was a random squad from WC and none of us knew one another before this run except for the archer and BM.

Barb had to leave after about 25% of the run. It ended up at some bosses I had to tank with the herc or tank in foxform. As the only veno (heavy/arcane) in there, herc died a couple of times thereby losing loyalty therefore needing herc food to recover the lost loyalty.

More than 200k burned off the HP charm + more than 200k in repairs.

Rewards at the end? 1 flawless amber and 2 chests of coins. b:cry

The fun = priceless.

Made new friends = priceless.

It's not all about money.

Azura - Lost City

Arverna - Sanctuary wrote: »

Some ppl on those forums, as always,are very fast at using QQ in a sentence and at softly flaming people down without even understanding the post it seems

What about sarcasm maybe and stating a fact that somehow is kind of funny...

Also about informing other new players... Look into other threads, some players are still advising to make a veno for new players in order to make cash....

But it is apparently pointless to even start a discussion thread of those forums as the only discussion possible is about QQ'ing....

And I agree you do not need a Herc, was only stating a strange fact

Over and out, learn to read before you post !!

Seriusly, s/he is right. Some people in this forums don't seem to have made it over elementary school because all of them always flame and use "qq" instantly. This player here is only asking about if getting a hercules is a good way to make his gameplay easier.

Well Averna, I am gonna share a little bit of my story of how I got a Hercules and then it paid back some 10 times what it costed me.

I never spent one dollar to get a hercules. I farmed TT on solo mode with my golem for maybe one month, until I got enough sources of force. That was back when I was like level 85 I think and gold was around 120k each.
Thanks to my hercules I have avoid spaming my guild's chat with "Could a barbarian and cleric help me with (insert whatever comes to mind)." I farmed all my TT90 gear and by soloing instances I was able to +6 all my gear. Oh, I almost forgot: I got a bird too way faster than when I farmed for hercules.

When I read your 1st post I got the idea that your veno is not your main. Your veno is only for feeding the only character. The only problem Averna is that to make a hercules return money, you have to farm a lot. Some people don't like to farm, and if you are like them you may end up wasting money.
For me, farming is not a big deal. It's because I really liked the class I chose.
Everything is for my veno.

Ok ok, I still haven't answerd your question I think. Am I rich?the answer is no. That's because I am constantly using all what I ear to buy orbs, new gear, skills, etc... Most of the time I am low in cash. However, as long as I play on the character I like is all good.

I am just saying that your farming circle may never end.

Maiya - Lost City

Any class can get rich, it just depends on what you do. Being a Veno may make it easier, but it's not required. I'm making little to nothing cause I barely do anything to make money.

Saitada - Sanctuary

The key to getting rich in this game is to take your time.

My Blade Master is slowly grinding SP for skills so she will have her skills maxed for each level. This means feeding her genies XP while she saves the SP and coin to upgrade skills.

I have found that doing this has meant that my coin pool is much larger than if I just charged through the levels as fast as I could get them done, and I have a stronger character overall.

If your in a hurry to get that next level, of course your always going to be broke because you will need new armor, new weapons, new skills etc much faster and those are major coin sinks at early levels.

Take your time. You'll be amazed at how much coin you have in a short amount of time.

~Saitada

p.s. This thread is now about Chocolate Chip & Macadamia Nut Cookies.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Ok ok, I still haven't answerd your question I think. Am I rich?the answer is no. That's because I am constantly using all what I ear to buy orbs, new gear, skills, etc... Most of the time I am low in cash. However, as long as I play on the character I like is all good.

I am just saying that your farming circle may never end.

b:beatenup
to the question of whether you're rich, i'd say yes. +6 equip and 2 leg pets without cash shopping that's very good. it's not raw coins that determine richness; if i suddenly +10 my wep yeah i can say i'm coinless, but nobody is going to look at me and say i'm poor. b:chuckle

poor is when you can't afford what you need, like some friends i had that reach mid 8x and still have TT70. (i say it's all these dailies' fault)

poor is when a barb tells me...i have 200k in repairs and i have 20k.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

I would think its PARTIALLY myth becuase

1) MAN id save SO much if i didnt have to use MP charms/spam pots in HEAVY DUTY instances.

2) Id sure get more at half the time if i had a slave that killed things for me will i killed others.

3) My repair bills would literally cut in half

4) Solo subless TT, quick easy ones without much repairs and pot/charm costs


Its not that venos get RICH i think, its more they save as opposed to other classes.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its not that venos get RICH i think, its more they save as opposed to other classes.

That's it.

FACT: Venos use fewer MP potions compared to Clerics and Wizards.
FACT: Venos have minimal expenses with repairs compared to any class that tanks directly.
FACT: Venos die the least and are likely to survive even lag spikes.
FACT: Venos spend the least with spells. Just to make a simple comparison, a Venomancer needs 4M to get Parasitic Nova maxed while a Wizard spends 12M with ultimates and a BM spends up to 16M.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

FACT: Venos spend the least with spells. Just to make a simple comparison, a Venomancer needs 4M to get Parasitic Nova maxed while a Wizard spends 12M with ultimates and a BM spends up to 16M.

^
b:surrender
isn't there a chart/listing thing that shows wizzys cost the most in spells?
b:shocked

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's it.

FACT: Venos use fewer MP potions compared to Clerics and Wizards.

You talking regular grinding or bosses? HUGE difference here... on bosses a veno can easly go through 8k mp in less than 2 minutes, if they use both myriads as soon as they are available. There has been TTs where I have gone through 2-3 full MP bars before the cleric's charm even ticked once.

FACT: Venos have minimal expenses with repairs compared to any class that tanks directly.

So do Clerics and Wizards. Clerics can even do better than a veno on expenses if they are smart and AOE grind on poison mobs only.

FACT: Venos die the least and are likely to survive even lag spikes.

Depends on veno type and what they were doing. In most regular parties, I will quickly sacrifice myself by sparking or using alpha, if needed, to get aggro from the cleric, since cleric can rez me if I get killed, while we will all sit around and wait for cleric if he/she gets killed.

FACT: Venos spend the least with spells. Just to make a simple comparison, a Venomancer needs 4M to get Parasitic Nova maxed while a Wizard spends 12M with ultimates and a BM spends up to 16M.

There are more skills than nova to max as a veno... Summer sprint to get to level 3 is more expensive than to get fox form to level 4 (sage or demon). Lucky scarab is also 1mil+, so are several other skills.

Your statement would be the same as if I were to say clerics only need to max iron heart, since they are only needed to heal therefore they are the cheapest class for skills.

Brael - Dreamweaver

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's it.

FACT: Venos use fewer MP potions compared to Clerics and Wizards.
FACT: Venos have minimal expenses with repairs compared to any class that tanks directly.
FACT: Venos die the least and are likely to survive even lag spikes.
FACT: Venos spend the least with spells. Just to make a simple comparison, a Venomancer needs 4M to get Parasitic Nova maxed while a Wizard spends 12M with ultimates and a BM spends up to 16M.

FACT: I spam MP potions. I'm pure arcane and blow a ton of mana, even with my free 2720 mana/minute from sparks and NG (plus what I get from transfusion, when I can get it timed right to waste little/no chi)

FACT: My expenses typically run higher than that of anything but a Barbarian. At times I've even had higher expenses than a Barb friend of mine though I do admit that's rare.

FACT: Dying the least is untrue, the risk of death when soloing is significantly greater. Surviving lag spikes in your comparison is equally untrue. If you're soloing and you get a good lag spike, you're dead if something starts beating on you. A Barbarian followed by a BM would best survive lag spikes thanks to being able to absorb the most damage.

FACT: Here's the total coin costs for skills using the lists on ecatomb (and including 1,050,000 per 79 skill since that's what the ink costs)
Archer - 64,131,462
Barbarian - 68,055,402
Blademaster - 106,885,340 (all 4 weapon trees, subtract 18,632,000 per tree you don't want to include)
Cleric - 60,351,604
Venomancer - 74,068,010 (pets not included)
Wizard - 76,980,070

Wow, look at that. Veno's certainly aren't low on the list are they? Infact, if we throw more than a couple of skills on all our pets combined, we're second only to BM's which are far and away the highest if they max out all 4 weapon trees (1 tree=50,989,340, 2 trees=69,621,340, 3 trees=88,253,340, 4 trees=106,885,402).

You know, I don't really know a whole lot about BM's so I don't know how common it is for say a poleaxe BM to max out fist skills, or a fist BM to max out axe skills, but it looks to me, that unless BM's regularly do three of their four trees, once you include hidden pet skill costs into the equation (a difference of 2,912,060 coin is about 14 skill upgrades or 10 skills, that's not much).... veno's are the highest not the lowest when it comes to skill costs.

Quilue - Sanctuary

You're not going to compare with a wizard in skill costs. i'm going to freely admit that archers won't either, especially since most of us don't level Stormrage and half of the other useless **** we have.

Your expenses typically run higher than any other class? what are you? Heavy Armor?

and about mana usage...aside from the innate mana regen skill, you can soul transfuse and eat a hp pot (i'm assuming you have stacks of those like any other venos do), turning like 4k hp to 10k mp. i don't think any other class can do that. you still have it easier than Wiz or Cleric.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

nice to see someone busting this myth! i am so sick of hearing the **** that 'venos are rich, etc.'. MAYBE...if the person has nothing to do with their life but sit and play all day, or has figured how to break the rules and have bots work for them. but for a player who does not have time to play all day, and has time for quests only, well quests dont make millions. and the little time i do have to grind makes me enough to pay for repairs and a bit extra to tuck in the bank in case i see something in AH i can afford. i *never* have had more than $2-3 mil, and that was with opening coin chests.

it makes me angry, this obsession everyone has with the herc. yes, its tough, yes, its good to have.....but venos who cant afford one are treated like dirt, are dropped from squads as useless even if they have strong, leveled up golems and other strong pets. i know that the concept of fairness and good sportsmanship are unknown to most players here, but untill it is, this game is going to become more and more one where only those with the deepest RL pockets and the most time to blow on the game are those who run it. those of us who cannot spend gobs of RL money, do not have all day to sit here grinding, will be the ones who are left out in the cold, not permitted in squads. might(and money) makes right in PWI now.

and yes, i am **very bitter** about this.


edit-

THIS is one reason venos are NOT rich....we have many skills to level-both human and fox-, as well as leveling up our pets' skills and putting on new ones if necessary. none of this is cheap, and this is where all my money goes on a regular basis. are venos supposed to not level the skills of themselves and pets, just to save up for that damn herc? how long would it take, with lv 1 scarab, and lv 1 pet skills, to save up $80 mil? who the hell wants to wait that long to enjoy the game?!

"Quote-Brael...
FACT: Here's the total coin costs for skills using the lists on ecatomb (and including 1,050,000 per 79 skill since that's what the ink costs)
Archer - 64,131,462
Barbarian - 68,055,402
Blademaster - 106,885,340 (all 4 weapon trees, subtract 18,632,000 per tree you don't want to include)
Cleric - 60,351,604
Venomancer - 74,068,010 (pets not included)
Wizard - 76,980,070

Wow, look at that. Veno's certainly aren't low on the list are they? Infact, if we throw more than a couple of skills on all our pets combined, we're second only to BM's which are far and away the highest if they max out all 4 weapon trees (1 tree=50,989,340, 2 trees=69,621,340, 3 trees=88,253,340, 4 trees=106,885,402)."

Arverna - Sanctuary wrote: »

Saw it so many times and tried it myself...

Was most probably very true few months ago when gold was cheap but what about it now?

Veno doesn't make fast cash, veno with a Herc does...
Now what is the average price of an Herc?

Current rate is around 7-8k per feather/SOP (if lucky) that makes a Herc at around 70-80 millions coins (without using gold)......

So basically to start "been rich" as stated on some threads, you need to first gather 70-80 millions coins, then spend them all, then grind some more to get rich....

But but but....
If i have 80 millions, I am rich already, am I not?

No no no, u need to spend them to be rich....

Seen a dog chasing it's own tail anyone? b:surrenderb:surrender

Am currently at 25 millions... Don't think i will ever see a Herc lol

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're not going to compare with a wizard in skill costs...i'm going to freely admit that archers won't either, especially since most of us don't level Stormrage.

and about mana usage...aside from the innate mana regen skill, you can soul transfuse and eat a hp pot (i'm assuming you have stacks of those like any other venos do), turning like 4k hp to 10k mp. i don't think any other class can do that.

Have you tried to use soul transfussion while doing AOE bosses?

_Lust_Xxx - Harshlands

Stop the math and the QQ's.. Venos can solo most of the game stop being creating pointless threads about "OMG VENOS BLOW.. I WISH I WAS A RICH ARCHER.."

Zoe - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Have you tried to use soul transfussion while doing AOE bosses?

If you have a cleric doing BB and you time it right you can use soul transfuse in the middle of the fight. I do it all the time.b:chuckle

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

^
b:surrender
isn't there a chart/listing thing that shows wizzys cost the most in spells?
b:shocked

That because most BMs follow only Axes path = cheaper. Those who follow all 4 paths spend a lot. Even more than Wizzies.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There are more skills than nova to max as a veno... Summer sprint to get to level 3 is more expensive than to get fox form to level 4 (sage or demon). Lucky scarab is also 1mil+, so are several other skills.

This statement would be the same as if I were to say clerics only need to max iron heart, since they are only needed to heal therefore they are the cheapest class for skills.

That was a simple comparison but you can check ecatomb for precise numbers. Even then I can grant you Venos spend considerably less. As you're also considering sage/demon books think about the price of a sage/demon revive, earth barrier, aura of the golden bell, strength of the titans, deadly shot...

By the way you must be complaining about MP usage for using Myriad. Wizards also have a MP hungry debuff...

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

FACT: Venos use fewer MP potions compared to Clerics and Wizards.

You talking regular grinding or bosses? HUGE difference here... on bosses a veno can easly go through 8k mp in less than 2 minutes, if they use both myriads as soon as they are available. There has been TTs where I have gone through 2-3 full MP bars before the cleric's charm even ticked once.

I can go through 8k in less than a minute. We tick every 5 sec or so, so its possible you just missed their tick.

FACT: Venos have minimal expenses with repairs compared to any class that tanks directly.
So do Clerics and Wizards. Clerics can even do better than a veno on expenses if they are smart and AOE grind on poison mobs only.

Compare when soloing

FACT: Venos die the least and are likely to survive even lag spikes.
Depends on veno type and what they were doing. In most regular parties, I will quickly sacrifice myself by sparking or using alpha, if needed, to get aggro from the cleric, since cleric can rez me if I get killed, while we will all sit around and wait for cleric if he/she gets killed.

I think they mean solo too

FACT: Venos spend the least with spells. Just to make a simple comparison, a Venomancer needs 4M to get Parasitic Nova maxed while a Wizard spends 12M with ultimates and a BM spends up to 16M.
There are more skills than nova to max as a veno... Summer sprint to get to level 3 is more expensive than to get fox form to level 4 (sage or demon). Lucky scarab is also 1mil+, so are several other skills.

Your statement would be the same as if I were to say clerics only need to max iron heart, since they are only needed to heal therefore they are the cheapest class for skills.

I sure wouldnt run with a cleric with just max ironheart. worthless.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

_Lust_Xxx - Harshlands wrote: »

Stop the math and the QQ's.. Venos can solo most of the game stop being creating pointless threads about "OMG VENOS BLOW.. I WISH I WAS A RICH ARCHER.."

So, you want for us to not use math to rebuke people's flawed assumptions about venos?

Lets look at what you just posted:

Generalization - "Venos can solo most of the game"
Actualy facts - Can you please list, from personal experience, which things venos can and cannot solo?

From other posters:
Incorrect assumption not based on facts - venos are the cheapest class to get skills
Actual facts: "Archer - 64,131,462
Barbarian - 68,055,402
Blademaster - 106,885,340 (all 4 weapon trees, subtract 18,632,000 per tree you don't want to include)
Cleric - 60,351,604
Venomancer - 74,068,010 (pets not included)
Wizard - 76,980,070"

Sooo you want us to just say accept generalizations and flat out wrong facts and reply to them not using math, so it would as bad as those making the statememts?

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That was a simple comparison but you can check ecatomb for precise numbers. ...

You mean like this list, compiled based on information from that website?
Skill costs:
Archer - 64,131,462
Barbarian - 68,055,402
Blademaster - 106,885,340 (all 4 weapon trees, subtract 18,632,000 per tree you don't want to include)
Cleric - 60,351,604
Venomancer - 74,068,010 (pets not included)
Wizard - 76,980,070

Somehow I do not see how venos are the cheapest.....

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can go through 8k in less than a minute. We tick every 5 sec or so, so its possible you just missed their tick.

I can go through 15.72K MP per minute, Beat that >:O

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can go through 15.72K MP per minute, Beat that >:O

demon barrage?

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can go through 15.72K MP per minute, Beat that >:O

Let me fight ancient evil with an mp charm on, I'll go through mp in insane amounts in seconds.b:surrender

Manaleak.

_Lust_Xxx - Harshlands

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, you want for us to not use math to rebuke people's flawed assumptions about venos?

Venos can solo tons of boss either in HH or not, cheapest grinding thanks to mp/hp transfer. PvP is easy if u don't fail, just get a pet, max bleed (sawfly works) and play smart. Soul transfusion is just OP, seriouslly.

I get it. You play a class that is easy like hell, OP in a lot of aspect and u can be independent. Let's tell everyone we fail so nowone else QQ's about our awesomeness..

Quilue - Sanctuary

Realistically, nobody maxes all their skills, especially since a lot of caster venos only max Purge, Amp and maybe Soul Degen in their fox trees. like...do you really max consume spirit? flaming scarab? frost scarab? malefic crush? if you never fight in foxform forget leech or stunning blow too. while you're at that, who uses crush vigor?

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Realistically, nobody maxes all their skills, especially since a lot of caster venos only max Purge, Amp and maybe Soul Degen in their fox trees. like...do you really max consume spirit? flaming scarab? frost scarab? malefic crush? if you never fight in foxform forget leech or stunning blow too. while you're at that, who uses crush vigor?

I maxed every single skill I have if I use it or not. I'm getting the sage version of them all if I use them or not.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can go through 15.72K MP per minute, Beat that >:O

>:O stop barraging

Brael - Dreamweaver

Realistically, nobody maxes all their skills, especially since a lot of caster venos only max Purge, Amp and maybe Soul Degen in their fox trees. like...do you really max consume spirit? flaming scarab? frost scarab? malefic crush? if you never fight in foxform forget leech or stunning blow too. while you're at that, who uses crush vigor?

With the exception of Amp since I don't have it yet, I've either maxed every single skill you mentioned there or have the skill ready to train up to sage the moment I hit 99 (maelfic/consume are 99 skills).

_Lust_Xxx - Harshlands

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I maxed every single skill I have if I use it or not. I'm getting the sage version of them all if I use them or not.

You are a smart young man/woman. So veno is expensive but u can max skills that are just trash and nowone actually uses... makes senseb:chuckle
My veno only was purge and amp in fox form.. only thing u need in HH/Pvp