Myth Buster: make a veno to get rich....

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

No. Just, no.

What just no? When I'm grinding I'm not hitted(melee mobs), do you think I don't have to repair my gear? Sure is not as soon as you have to repair but still I have to repair gear without being hitted.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What just no? When I'm grinding I'm not hitted(melee mobs), do you think I don't have to repair my gear? Sure is not as soon as you have to repair but still I have to repair gear without being hitted.

OK, I won't argue with you about that.

But what the person you were replying to was saying was that wiz/cleric repair costs are basically just weapon repairs. When you reply to that by saying, "This is wrong. Every1 must repair their gear. It doesn't matter if you are hitted or not" it sounds like you're claiming that the repair costs are basically the same for all classes. Hence my somewhat stunned reply.

Roin - Harshlands

Your lvl 77 with 25mil any other class without farming TT 24 7 will not have 1mil at your lvl and if a wiz wants to grind to the point he gets good xp you need alot of pots or charm or you will waste alot of time a veno grinds for free and a veno that dont fail can kill mobs fast i know a few 7x veno with over 50mil ( they have no herc) most i have made without cash shoping was 44mil and that was thx to the packs and not till lvl 92 i played a 8x veno they can make cash alot faster and easyer then others unless you have a pro 4 man squad who can finish a hh in 1hour or less and with the barb/cleric pick first thing...lol find a good faction that helps or splits the drops even

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

But the myth isn't busted because a veno can get just as rich using a magmite.

Are you on drugs or something?

No they can't. Most of the TT bosses will one-shot a magmite unless you put herc skills on it. If you do the math, the difference between herc and mag pdef and mdef means that at level 90, the magmite will take 2.1x as much physical damage and 2.3x as much magical damage as a herc. The magmite only has 71% the hp of a herc too.

Most of the bosses I fight in TT with my 87 herc hit it for a max of 40%-60% its hp while I'm spam healing. If you translate that through the above numbers, an 87 magmite would get hit for 120%-190% its hp. It'll die in a single hit. Maybe the first hit won't kill it, but in a long solo fight, there's a 99.9999999% chance there will be a hit which one-shots it.

Speaking of which, that's the other downside of soloing -- the long fights. Soloing 2-2 lion (one of the quicker ones to solo) with my herc is about a 15 minute fight. A magmite does less damage and has no reflect damage. So soloing lion with a mag (pretend you put the herc def buffs on the mag so it could survive), you're probably looking at a 30-45 minute fight.

Back in my 70s I did numerous timings with 2-1 Cosmo. Solo was about a 35-40 minute fight (probably over an hour for a magmite). Adding a 2nd person dropped that to about 16 min (better than the expected 17.5-20 min). Adding a 3rd person dropped it to about 10-11 min (better than the expected 12-13 min). For this reason, I always tried to add a 2nd person to my "solo" TT runs, and preferably a 3rd or 4th. It simply takes less time per mat acquired per person.

I think you're being taken in by the irresistible urge people have to brag. They want to impress you with how uber their skills are, so they'll exaggerate what they can do, or only speak up only when they had a TT run with spectacular drops. I'm more interested in average results, which is why I did the measurements above.

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

NO OTHER CLASS CAN FARM TT SOLO. PERIOD.

Venomancer is the only class that has that option, and thus is the only class that can make that kind of money feasibly.

Any class can amass a fortune. Of all the money and trinkets I have, about 95% of it was financed by my cat shop. About 5% was from TT mats I farmed with my veno and sold. Personally I mainly do TT runs to help friends and guildmates since we're usually short on barbs. If I devoted my TT time to checking cat shops and searching AH, I could probably make 2x-5x the money I get from TT. My veno's herc was financed by my cat shop. My veno's phoenix was financed by my cat shop. All the molds and legendary gear used by my veno and alts was financed by my cat shop.

Any class can run a cat shop. Complaining that venos can make more money grinding is like complaining that Joe the hobo can dredge up more pennies from the fountain than you because he has longer arms. Anyone can get a job flipping burgers (running a cat shop) and make a lot more money than dredging pennies out of the fountain (grinding).

EDIT: Jazmin, anyone who says any other class can make as much as a veno does farming TT solo by grinding or collecting mats is wrong, period. TT mats can go for millions. Grind drops or mats can't.

A good TT run for me with my veno will be about 1 mil/hr per person. An average one about 500-700k/hr.

Grinding I can hit 300-400k/hr with my veno. Brael (who likes to optimize this type of stuff like I do) can hit 500k/hr grinding with his veno, but he's got 5 levels on me.

Farming mats, if you can sell them for 5k each and hit 2 mat mines a minute, you're making 600k/hr.

My cat shop made about 20-30 mil a week last month, for about 15-20 minutes maintenance a day. That works out to 8.5-17 mil per hour spent maintaining it.

/NiKi - Lost City

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

You have to be kidding me.

NO OTHER CLASS CAN FARM TT SOLO. PERIOD.

Venomancer is the only class that has that option, and thus is the only class that can make that kind of money feasibly. Yes, all classes can do it, but these classes have to pay for repair bills, split drops, etc.


The only thing "busted" here was my faith in humanity.


EDIT: Jazmin, anyone who says any other class can make as much as a veno does farming TT solo by grinding or collecting mats is wrong, period. TT mats can go for millions. Grind drops or mats can't.

With an equal time investment, any non-fail veno will come out on top.

TT mats can go for milions,yeah in case u get a gold mat..lol
ur friend probably farm solo mode,if u get 1 mat from each boss in solo mode u can consider ur self LUCKY,u would probably earn more just by selling those subs u used.
and yes,every class can farm SOLO mode using charms and pots,and depends on lvl ofcourse too,but thing is that solo mode dont pays off cuz drop rate is much lower then in squad mode.even squad mode dont pays off this days,so i suggest u better forget about solo mode cuz u probably wont cover subs and charm use.

yesterday i did solo mode cuz i cant tank forshura alone,need barb and cleric,from all bosses i got 1 mat worth 50k and 3 mirages..would be better i just sell those subs b:surrender

if u really think veno is so easy to play,why dont u make one and try it alone?
milions u gonna make in 1 run if:
-u do it alone
-u get good drops,atleast 3-4 from each boss
-u dont skip any boss

alot of bosses aoes,or herc cant tank it so we cant just do all alone.
if u havent notice,hh mats are twice cheaper now then b4 and drop rate isnt same as before either.
and u forgot about time how much lasts 1 run when ur doing it alone,some bosses u cant dd at all cuz u have to spam heal,so only dmg is ur pet,and all the mobs in hh,each u have to lure and kill,so 1 run can take for 3hr's,depends what mode ur farming.
now,in same amount of time,u could have farm high mats and make 2mil+ out of it,that ALL classes can do,without repair fee.
venos not having repair costs is also a lie,even u heal ur pet only u gonna have some minimum repair,but in most of cases if u dd to kill mob faster eventually u gonna be stealing aggro,and repair costs can get really high.

Arverna - Sanctuary

Roin - Harshlands wrote: »

Your lvl 77 with 25mil any other class without farming TT 24 7 will not have 1mil at your lvl and if a wiz wants to grind to the point he gets good xp you need alot of pots or charm or you will waste alot of time a veno grinds for free and a veno that dont fail can kill mobs fast i know a few 7x veno with over 50mil ( they have no herc) most i have made without cash shoping was 44mil and that was thx to the packs and not till lvl 92 i played a 8x veno they can make cash alot faster and easyer then others unless you have a pro 4 man squad who can finish a hh in 1hour or less and with the barb/cleric pick first thing...lol find a good faction that helps or splits the drops even

I made 20 mils from AH, 2-3 mils from TT

77 pure mage veno with magmite can NOT EVEN take Chintien TT 1-1 in Squad mode, tried many time and I am pure magic

Single mode is not even worth the sub (did TT2-1 single maybe 30 runs killing all 3 bosses and you can make cash (actual benefit) only during dble xp event.

I repeat again: i am good with my magmite, have a lot of fun, but ppl should maybe start to understand that: "make a veno you will be rich" is an easily busted myth...

Make a veno without cash transfer from another chara and come back to me in 2 month

Period

Isala - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is wrong. Every1 must repair their gear. It doesn't matter if you are hitted or not. If you casting spell you always have to repair your gear not just weapon.

No. I just tested. No hits = No Gear Damage = No Gear Repair. Period. The only thing that happens is your weapon loses durability. And before you say I'm just a Veno, I tried it on my Wizard Alt to prove my point. With weapon, I had a repair cost. I didn't repair, took off my weapon, and hit "Repair All" again. To which I was informed I had no equipment that needed repaired. Equip weapon, and the repair costs came back. So, I was right. Don't get hit, don't have to repair gear, only your weapon. Which means bare minimum repair costs for ANY caster, not just Veno.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

eek~ sowwy me was busy and now me are teh bored.... okies....strange new thread for me? yesh? O.o'

o...kies so this look like the OP didn't mean to invite flames but.....teh reasoning be...really....really...bad......
b:shocked

Venos....have the least amount of repairs....pets don't wear armor....
any other class that tries to solo automatically gets a way bigger repair bill then venos....
b:surrender

and QQ your weapon broke....well every other class ends up with full body broken gear.....

the only actual hits a competent veno takes is from aoes (as long as the pet stays alive the whole time of course...) and that cost near nothing in repairs.

Who says you have to do the unsoloable squad bosses anyway....just do the soloable, get the mats, then sell said mats, use gained monies to....buy needed mats......
b:surrender

Solandri - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Venos....have the least amount of repairs....pets don't wear armor....
any other class that tries to solo automatically gets a way bigger repair bill then venos....
b:surrender

That's kinda beside the point though. The veno class was designed to solo. The other classes were designed to group. Comparing a veno solo to another class solo is like comparing a veno in a zhen squad to another clas in a zhen squad. In both cases you're comparing a strength to a weakness, which is rather pointless.

In other words, yes a solo veno will have lower repair costs than a solo archer or a solo wizard. But two venos grouped will have higher repair costs than an archer and wizard grouped. Veno spells hit for less damage so they have to cast more per mob killed. The archer and wizard should be able to kill regular mobs before it ever gets within range to hit them.

Compare strength to strength, weakness to weakness. Comparing strengths to weaknesses is just pointless.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

No. I just tested. No hits = No Gear Damage = No Gear Repair. Period. The only thing that happens is your weapon loses durability. And before you say I'm just a Veno, I tried it on my Wizard Alt to prove my point. With weapon, I had a repair cost. I didn't repair, took off my weapon, and hit "Repair All" again. To which I was informed I had no equipment that needed repaired. Equip weapon, and the repair costs came back. So, I was right. Don't get hit, don't have to repair gear, only your weapon. Which means bare minimum repair costs for ANY caster, not just Veno.

How long did you tested? Try to kill 50+ mob without hitting. Of course not as veno. It's going very slowly but going. It would be too easy If we didn't need to repair.

Isala - Sanctuary

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

eek~ sowwy me was busy and now me are teh bored.... okies....strange new thread for me? yesh? O.o'

o...kies so this look like the OP didn't mean to invite flames but.....teh reasoning be...really....really...bad......
b:shocked

Venos....have the least amount of repairs....pets don't wear armor....
any other class that tries to solo automatically gets a way bigger repair bill then venos....
b:surrender

and QQ your weapon broke....well every other class ends up with full body broken gear.....

the only actual hits a competent veno takes is from aoes (as long as the pet stays alive the whole time of course...) and that cost near nothing in repairs.

Who says you have to do the unsoloable squad bosses anyway....just do the soloable, get the mats, then sell said mats, use gained monies to....buy needed mats......
b:surrender

Normally I tend to agree with you, but the line in red made me facepalm. I'm one hell of a competent Veno, and I take hits all the time. Usually by saving other peoples' fail asses. I've ended up with repair costs in the 100ks + because of people who act like complete noobs. I, even though my pet still alive, react, saving clerics, archers, and wizards who don't understand the concept of not grabbing aggro. Especially since I've partied with Clerics who decide the instant they grab aggro is the best time to head for the door... Leaving the rest of us unhealed. I save them, so they actually can save the party...

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How long did you tested? Try to kill 50+ mob without hitting. Of course not as veno. It's going very slowly but going. It would be too easy If we didn't need to repair.

Done, did, redid, retested, and finished. Dropped SEVERAL durability off my weapon. Still no repair costs. As a wizard. I even got hit by debuffs. As long as you do not get hit by a spell or attack that causes damage, you do not lose durability off your gear. Period.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Venos have the lowest cost in the game since pets dont have to be repaired. If you have a tome (which everyone has) pets don't even need to be fed. They take mana to heal but venos have a 0-cost mana recovery skill (no other class has that).

While bosses take a while to solo, venos can afk spam heal. People like to say veno is a 'solo' class without ever defining what that means. I don't think squad content is designed to be soloed by a single player. I did hear of a 100 archer who soloed his fb99 at a stupid huge cost but that same feat is much easier for a veno.

Lygerr - Dreamweaver

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Normally I tend to agree with you, but the line in red made me facepalm. I'm one hell of a competent Veno, and I take hits all the time. Usually by saving other peoples' fail asses. I've ended up with repair costs in the 100ks + because of people who act like complete noobs. I, even though my pet still alive, react, saving clerics, archers, and wizards who don't understand the concept of not grabbing aggro. Especially since I've partied with Clerics who decide the instant they grab aggro is the best time to head for the door... Leaving the rest of us unhealed. I save them, so they actually can save the party...

that's not an excuse to say that a class has as high of repair costs, that is the cost of rolling with noobs.

try getting hit with almost no stuns, breaking everything on your person naturally and add in charms and gobs of elixirs and apothecaries and you see just how expensive a barb can be to play daily.

of course the people who say you can get rich playing a veno are just dumb and it is a far exaggeration of the truth. all classes have costs that cut into gameplay, venos just don't have to pay out as much due to pet saving armor and natural mana regeneration. i'm constantly bumming potions from my wife that wind up in her bag.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Aye - I'd go so far as to say that if you don't take hits then you're not being as good as possible.

Even so - our repair bills ARE generally less than other people's. Can't really dispute that.

Ponza - Lost City

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

You have to be kidding me.

NO OTHER CLASS CAN FARM TT SOLO. PERIOD.

Venomancer is the only class that has that option, and thus is the only class that can make that kind of money feasibly. Yes, all classes can do it, but these classes have to pay for repair bills, split drops, etc.


The only thing "busted" here was my faith in humanity.


EDIT: Jazmin, anyone who says any other class can make as much as a veno does farming TT solo by grinding or collecting mats is wrong, period. TT mats can go for millions. Grind drops or mats can't.

With an equal time investment, any non-fail veno will come out on top.

Guess what? I have a 9x mage that can farm all of 2-x solo, with no chance of death. Does that make it worth it? absolutely not, because each solo run takes several subs and the drop rate is cut in half. I will typically burn around 60k of my charm for a full run, and that doesn't include the hp pots I also use to save my charm. And guess what? with dominance blessings, I can do it in the same time or faster than a veno with golem. It's still not worth it.

I have to wonder if you've ever played with a golem veno. Many of these non-herc venos on my server are considered "scrubs" and people won't even invite them for runs in FC, TT, etc because they want a herc veno.

A veno with a golem is basically limited to doing either solo-mode TT runs that usually end up in a loss, or doing 1-x in their 90's, which is just laughable.

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver

What makes ppl say that us venos r the best at earning coins is quite simple and goes for a veno with or without a herc (or tank).


We can if we want to play wthout any pot/charm costs. ... then yes we got food costs, but get a tome and we don't have to worry about that unless our pet loose loyalty.

I got no costs what so ever (except for food once in a while). But im poor anyway xD but that might just be me cuz DQ items and drops in general seem to avoid me in any way it can b:laugh ... kinda sad but well who cares =P

Skimi - Dreamweaver

Its not that hard to farm 70-80m with veno. Just need to know what TTs need to farm .
And herc wont make u rich that fast too, got herc some days ago and can't get ppl to help me open squad TT lol, have to pay to them to help.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's kinda beside the point though. The veno class was designed to solo. The other classes were designed to group.

Veno with her pet is a squad already. Isn't it ?

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The other classes were designed to group.

Dependent from player and level.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In other words, yes a solo veno will have lower repair costs than a solo archer or a solo wizard.

Dependent from player, level and mobs.

Sometimes Venomancer run from mobs, which wizard can kill easy.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Veno spells hit for less damage so they have to cast more per mob killed.

Dependent from player, her skills, her build, mob, loyality of the pet,type of the pet, skills of the pet.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In other words, yes a solo veno will have lower repair costs than a solo archer or a solo wizard.

Dependent from the player.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The archer and wizard should be able to kill regular mobs before it ever gets within range to hit them.

Dependent from the player. Sometimes even better to be in short range with mobs to kill them faster. Especially with ranged mobs, magic mobs.
Venomancer, attacked by group of mobs will be killed faster than Wizard. Real Wizard.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Most of that I agree with, but:

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Venomancer, attacked by group of mobs will be killed faster than Wizard. Real Wizard.

A venomancer, who is attacked by a group of mobs has done something wrong.

Venomancer have a built in way to lure and a pet that can distract mobs. I'm not going to say it never happens (mistakes do get made) - but I will say that it shouldn't ever happen.


Anyway, this is way off topic. I'll agree that the myth of "Free TT items makes you a fortune!" is pretty much a myth.

Even doing squad runs with a herc; The time taken to get them isn't inconsiderable and the items really don't sell for very much any more.

There is advantage is being able to do them solo - or there would be if you didn't need four people to open the door. I'm sorely tempted to try and set up a bunch of alts there.


Maybe it'll make me money at a later level. Right now, I grind out plenty just killing normal stuff, which anyone can do.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venos have the lowest cost in the game since pets dont have to be repaired. If you have a tome (which everyone has) pets don't even need to be fed.

No argument there. But what you're saying is part of a misconception I commonly see in the game. The beginner's guide on how to make money is flawed in that it's basically a guide on how not to spend money. Not spending money and making money are two different things. The misconception causes people to do silly things like run/fly instead of teleport. They'll spend 5 minutes running to a destination to save 3k on a teleport. Meanwhile I pay the 3k, and in the 5 minutes they're running I'll kill mobs and get 25k in loot.

You have to spend money to make money. Having zero repair costs is meaningless if someone else with 10k in repairs in an hour can make 20k more in drops due to a faster kill rate. The veno has one of the lowest DPS rates of any class even if you include the pet. In my 70s my veno grouped with a wizard to kill orchid petalii for a quest. I was mowing through them pretty quickly with my phoenix and was cringing, waiting for the wizard to comment on how overpowered the bird was. To my surprise, the wizard was killing the petalii faster than I could with my phoenix.

They take mana to heal but venos have a 0-cost mana recovery skill (no other class has that).

Same goes for the zero-cost mana recovery skill. When I tested my 30 veno against my 30 cleric against antelope pups, the cleric actually killed faster (2-shot kills vs. 3-shot for the veno+pet). The cleric had more downtime due to mana consumption and having to sit to med, while the veno could kill non-stop. But a kill rate that much higher could probably easily pay for the extra cost in mp pots and mp regen powders and apoc items, and still come out ahead.

While bosses take a while to solo, venos can afk spam heal.

Not without a charm, which is the most expensive means of mp regen. If you're going to throw away your money that extravagantly, why are you doing TT to make money?

To minimize cost while spam-healing and thus maximize revenue from TT, your choices from cheapest to most expensive are:

1. Bring along a cleric.
2. Use Soul Transfusion and rely on +hp regen combined with low hp.
3. Use Soul Transfusion and genie heals.
4. Use pots.
5. Use a charm.

All except #5 limit your afk time to a couple minutes. Unless you're doing a low-level TT, the zero-cost mana and hp regen skills take too long to cast, and are unusable when spam-healing.

People like to say veno is a 'solo' class without ever defining what that means. I don't think squad content is designed to be soloed by a single player. I did hear of a 100 archer who soloed his fb99 at a stupid huge cost but that same feat is much easier for a veno.

That was my thinking too when I first started playing the game too. But then they added the herc, making >50% of the squad mode TT bosses solo-able by a veno.

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What makes ppl say that us venos r the best at earning coins is quite simple and goes for a veno with or without a herc (or tank).

We can if we want to play wthout any pot/charm costs.

No, the reputation comes from very early in the game. It used to be you could sell eggs from tamed mobs to NPCs for thousands of coin. That was quickly nerfed and all eggs now sell for 1 coin. But the reputation persists and has become self-perpetuating circular reasoning. People hear about the reputation, think up all sorts of new reasons to try to justify the reputation; then point to the reputation as evidence of their reasons being correct. Based on the measurements, tests, and calculations I've done, the veno is moderately better at making money, but not overly so (maybe 25%-35% better).

If I were really hardcore about making money, I would be thanking all the people who perpetuate this reputation for misleading people into trying something that doesn't compete with my cat shop. But I'm not, so I try to tell as many people as I can that merchanting (cat shopping/AHing) is The way to make money. The next best way is probably doing TT with a group.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

[It depends]

Well of course everything depends. There's probably a specific exception to just about anything. I was speaking in general.

Edit: BTW, IMHO the biggest advantage of the veno hasn't been mentioned yet because people aren't thinking in terms of kill rates: Veno pets don't have their damage reduced against TT bosses. That catapults them from the worst DD to add to a party outdoors and in FBs, to the best DD to add to a party in TT.

Quilue - Sanctuary

venos played in the cookie cutter caster build have no pot/charm costs in PvE. you have 2 regen skills with another skill to switch hp with mp, so as much mana as you burn, the worst possible scenario is that you eat a hp pot and switch and suddenly 3k hp becomes 7k mp or something, then eat another hp pot - hp pots that you naturally accumulate from grinding. veno pot costs are way less than what they get from just picking them up from mobs. if you go into the foxform skills at all, you can soul transfuse and leech life back as well.

so in terms of lower levels, venos do end up being the richest because they cost the least. that is not a myth. higher levels people do whatever they do to make money, and the gap may get narrower. but even then, if you want to compare the repair costs of a veno versus a bm grinding or a barb tanking, you'd see a fat difference.

Solandri i think you're downplaying the dps of that nix of yours. after asking an 8x veno with a nix, it was determined that her nix more or less hits about the minimum of my base damage - except the bird attacks faster at 1/s. couple this with nukes from the veno herself, i don't think its a contest unless i chain crit.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Solandri i think you're downplaying the dps of that nix of yours. after asking an 8x veno with a nix, it was determined that her nix more or less hits about the minimum of my base damage - except the bird attacks faster at 1/s. couple this with nukes from the veno herself, i don't think its a contest unless i chain crit.

Possibly. My anecdote was from my 70s, and pet damage doesn't scale linearly with level (it goes up more at higher level). Here are calculated DPS figures for level 90 pets:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5702382#post5702382

Also keep in mind that the phoenix is the exception. Outside of PvP, most venos don't have one so their pets are doing substantially less damage. I know what you're thinking though, and I agree. If I were designing the game, I would remove/nerf the phoenix as overpowered.

Alantor - Dreamweaver

This is a longer post, but bare with me for a minute.

It is rediculous to create a class to "make money" in this game.

Reasons :

- you will have to spend hours on end to farm herb & mats, then making items to level up your manufacturing skills. Only then you will be able to farm better herbs & mats. So you will spend a LOT of time doing that instead of levelling. If you don't = no income from manufacturing.

- if you want gear with which you can "compete" with other players, you will have to farm instances like TT, also for hours on end, to be able to make those gears. Or let them be made IF you don't lvl your manufacturing skills.
So , again, you spend lots of time doing that.

- you will occasionally need to repair your gear, which for some classes, will be expensive. For some less expensive, but they will either use pots or food for their pets, which also costs money.

- If you want a better pet, like a herc, you will need to spend a LOT of money to get that herc. Once you have that herc, you will need to farm all over again just to get your money back.

Specifically for barbs : higher repair costs, but they are needed to run instances and they get first pick in TT's.

Specifically for clerics : uses loads of mp, but hardly need hp pots since they have their own healing. always needed in instances and get second picks.

Specifically for venos : IF they want to compete on a higher lvl, they need herc. Why ? because if you're a non herc veno, you will be lower in demand. But for them pots and repairs are less of an issue and less of a cost.

Specifically for the other DD classes : depends on their build/task/instance, but they too will have their own costs ( wizards : mp ).

So basically : EVERY class has costs, no matter how you look at it. And to counter those costs you will HAVE TO farm or run instances, a LOT.

Unless....you spend RL cash on the game and just powerlvl your way up there.

Those that don't spend any cash, will have to take a bit longer to get to a higher lvl, as for those that do spend cash, all is made much easier. But maybe you're one of those that runs around in npc gear at lvl 90+...i would say, gratz on reaching it without any pressure to spend loads of RL money on this.

As for the OP : he was imo using "sarcasm" to point out that you have to spend money to get a herc to be able to make money. It's not needed to have a herc, indeed, but when you are at the point that you have that kind of cash lying around without using the cash shop, you will also be close to your "endgame" gear. (as lvl's are now). I know some venos that even in their 85+ or 90+ don't have a herc. Simply because they can't afford em..yet.

Karst - Dreamweaver

Wow, just wow.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from player and level.

How is this dependent from player and level? The other classes are designed to have a certain role (i.e. the tanks who get lots of hp, the healers with their healing spells, the pure power classes). A veno is pretty much a jack-of-all-trades. You can NEVER go solo a boss that easily as i.e. an archer, unlike a equal-lvled veno.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from player, level and mobs.

Sometimes Venomancer run from mobs, which wizard can kill easy.

Huh? A veno uses her pet to tank (which also causes damage FYI). So unless it's a kiting archer/wizard, it will have higher repair costs.
And I'm wondering what these mobs are, since venos can let their magmite tank mobs at least 20 lvls higher then themselves.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from player, her skills, her build, mob, loyality of the pet,type of the pet, skills of the pet.

No. Veno spells do less damage than wizard spells in general. Of course you can compare a wizard with 3 magic and underlvled skills to a lvl 100 veno, but that would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from the player.

Depends if you're kiting or not, but you'll get hit at least once more than likely.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from the player. Sometimes even better to be in short range with mobs to kill them faster. Especially with ranged mobs, magic mobs.
Venomancer, attacked by group of mobs will be killed faster than Wizard. Real Wizard.

Ehhh...what? I think it's better to NOT get hit at all, specially if you're squishy like an archer or wizard. And that's what venomancers can do by sending their pet to tank.
How will a venomancer be killed faster by a group of mobs? They can send their pet, hit each mob once, heal and go get a sandwich. What can a wizard do? Say, whoops and drop down.
Unless you're spamming apoths/pots. But I'm sure that's limited to Real Wizards only.

Quilue - Sanctuary

veno will die faster than a wiz in pve what?

ok lets lay some facts down

venos get more hp per vit
venos have foxform to match wiz's stone barrier more or less
venos have life leech
venos have soul transfuse

i don't see how venos die faster than wizards. a 10x veno i squadded with tanked a boss in fb99 in fox form...she was an arcane demon veno, yes, robie demon veno against a physical hitting boss...and she had 10k pdef in foxform with cleric buffs. you're going to tell me that this dies fast? imagine what defenses a sage veno can put up...

/NiKi - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

While bosses take a while to solo, venos can afk spam heal. People like to say veno is a 'solo' class without ever defining what that means. I don't think squad content is designed to be soloed by a single player. I did hear of a 100 archer who soloed his fb99 at a stupid huge cost but that same feat is much easier for a veno.

seriously,afk spam heal?
try do that and when u get back to ur pc ull be dead b:bye
unless u got pimped out gear and low channeling.
i got channeling -24% and macro heal still isnt working for me.
no1 said venos got high repair costs,but ppl keep making assumptions that veno dont have ANY repair costs.just by spamming heals,u have to fix ur weapons..thats for bosses,and for mobs i believe every veno steal aggro sometimes and repairs can get pretty high.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Karst - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How is this dependent from player and level?

Dependent from level:

1.Damage reduction formula
def / (def + 40*lvl).
2.Every other level character become more and more powerful.
Every other level he get new skills.
Every other level he get new skillpoints.
So, he can kill low level "boss" easy, for example and kill mobs using new skills faster.

High level Wizards (90+) are very powerful.

Dependent from player:
There are players, which play to level up in any way "somehow", sometimes they can't play using there character.

Sorry, I will answer questions later. Too busy now.

Karst - Dreamweaver

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from level:

1.Damage reduction formula
def / (def + 40*lvl).
2.Every other level character become more and more powerful.
Every other level he get new skills.
Every other level he get new skillpoints.
So, he can kill low level "boss" easy, for example and kill mobs using new skills faster.

High level Wizards (90+) are very powerful.

Dependent from player:
There are players, which play to level up in any way "somehow", sometimes they can't play using there character.

Sorry, I will answer questions later. Too busy now.

Solandri said:

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The veno class was designed to solo. The other classes were designed to group. Comparing a veno solo to another class solo is like comparing a veno in a zhen squad to another clas in a zhen squad. In both cases you're comparing a strength to a weakness, which is rather pointless.

You replied:

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dependent from player and level.

We were talking about how the classes are designed to have a specific task. Of course a level 100 wizard can kill Char the Growling or whatever, but when I am comparing something, I'm talking about equal level and skill.
Of course there are idiot venomancers. Of course there are idiot wizards. BUT THAT'S BESIDE THE POINT. A veno can always solo better and cheaper than a wizard. We're not talking about the classes power here, but about their abilities on general solo play and how well they succeed in that.
I guess that you're aware of their ability to solo, which is why you have to resort silly arguments like "lulz high lvls r better".

Saitada - Sanctuary

Arverna - Sanctuary wrote: »

Saw it so many times and tried it myself...

Was most probably very true few months ago when gold was cheap but what about it now?

Veno doesn't make fast cash, veno with a Herc does...
Now what is the average price of an Herc?

Current rate is around 7-8k per feather/SOP (if lucky) that makes a Herc at around 70-80 millions coins (without using gold)......

So basically to start "been rich" as stated on some threads, you need to first gather 70-80 millions coins, then spend them all, then grind some more to get rich....

But but but....
If i have 80 millions, I am rich already, am I not?

No no no, u need to spend them to be rich....

Seen a dog chasing it's own tail anyone? b:surrenderb:surrender

Am currently at 25 millions... Don't think i will ever see a Herc lol

At 77 you should be farming the Seaspray Bladewolfs near Dreamweaver. Also, rich is in the mind of the individual. It isn't only coin that makes you rich (I have almost all legendary armor for my toon, easily enough coin to do pretty much anything I want, and my toon is cuter than yours. So by my standards, I am rich, yet I have less actual coin than you have).

~S

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Normally I tend to agree with you, but the line in red made me facepalm. I'm one hell of a competent Veno, and I take hits all the time. Usually by saving other peoples' fail asses. I've ended up with repair costs in the 100ks + because of people who act like complete noobs. I, even though my pet still alive, react, saving clerics, archers, and wizards who don't understand the concept of not grabbing aggro. Especially since I've partied with Clerics who decide the instant they grab aggro is the best time to head for the door... Leaving the rest of us unhealed. I save them, so they actually can save the party...



Done, did, redid, retested, and finished. Dropped SEVERAL durability off my weapon. Still no repair costs. As a wizard. I even got hit by debuffs. As long as you do not get hit by a spell or attack that causes damage, you do not lose durability off your gear. Period.

*facepaw* we be talking about solo ability of venos.
b:surrender