Treatment of Clerics

Enzio - Heavens Tear

I respect all clerics the same, man I love them, keeping my **** alive. Though there are those few that will watch your hp drop and not heal you, and then you die and you get "Oops sorry lol." WTF if you are going to come at least pay attention I mean that's what will cause a party wipe. Then they will go afk and not tell anyone. Then when everyone dies they are like, "Sorry was afk." Damn tell someone at least.

Annonrae - Sanctuary

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

...Fail.
What happened to



So...What do we do? Run away to delay the party wipe by a few seconds? Or get healed.

In all the squads I've been in so far, and maybe I've just been incredibly lucky, when someone started running and screaming for help, the tank or another squad member helped. Most of the Barbs/BMs I know, who do have aoe aggro skills after some point, prefer that anyone who takes aggro runs toward them: they don't have to run after the attacked squad member, they can fire off a Roar or another aoe aggro skill, and usually, where there's a barb/BM, a cleric isn't far behind.

My point is, any cleric who knows what they are doing will keep an eye on everyone's HP bars, not just the tank's, and will at least try to toss a heal at you or squeeze a group heal in if the situation allows it, but we can't do that if that takes us out of the range of the tank/DDer we're healing.

Furthermore, what happens if you run and die? The mob(s) turn back around the way they came and will aggro the next squad member, and yes, most likely the cleric, regardless, like you said. It's arguable whether the time it takes the mob to run back actually helps safe the squad.

Personally I'd rather everyone stay within reasonable range of me; that doesn't mean I want you glued to my butt. Plus, I'm perfectly capable of screaming "ADD/AGGRO!", and unless I'm tied to one spot ( BB/constant IH ) I will head toward the tank myself, if the damage I'm taking threatens my life.

My advice: unless you're being targeted by an archer/ranged mob, run in circles around the squad ( unless that means taking more aggro from other mobs ). If you're being targeted by an archer/ranged mob, running away isn't going to help, anyway.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

If you run, run to the TANK - who should be in range of the cleric, and who can get the mobs off you. (Secondary tanks are also a good place to run)

Or run towards the mob (to stop it heading for the rest of the group) - but don't do that if the cleric is healing you, the cleric will take aggro then.

Or stand your ground (and maybe die).

Depends on the situation, really.
Best is to get the mob onto the (primary or secondary) tank.
Next best is to keep it on you and live.
Next best is for the mob to go down before it kills anyone.
Next is to keep it on you and not let the cleric take aggro and die.
Worst is to let the cleric have to run or die. Because then everyone dies.

I'm sure every group has their own preferred priority ordering, that's mine though.

Kagusa - Sanctuary

Neverless - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only thing i read when i saw this post was.... QQ. QQ. QQ. QQ. QQ. blah blah blah, ramble, ramble, ramble, waste of air, waste of life, blah, blah, QQ, QQ, QQ

EDIT: and on the oracle generation... I had a veno ask me how to tame a world boss today. o.0 omfgwtf crack smokers i swear

It's not QQing it's kinda like giving advie in a sarcastic way...you didn't even read the whole thing didn't you? Also I'm pretty sure what your doing now is not the same thig your complaining for haha darn hypocrits

Aadi - Lost City

I really don't understand how people can just...leave party if one person isn't acting the way they should to help out the cleric. I constantly see people that say they'd leave party if an archer keeps dying and blames the cleric, or something bad happens to them. It just doesn't make sense to me, because you just screwed over four other people just to make your point to the one. Seems very childish to me...I'd never leave a squad because one person mistreated me. I'd just finish with the instance and never squad with them again. No need to let all the others die for the one person's stupidity, that's just clerics lording their "power" over the group.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Annonrae - Sanctuary wrote: »

In all the squads I've been in so far, and maybe I've just been incredibly lucky, when someone started running and screaming for help, the tank or another squad member helped. Most of the Barbs/BMs I know, who do have aoe aggro skills after some point, prefer that anyone who takes aggro runs toward them: they don't have to run after the attacked squad member, they can fire off a Roar or another aoe aggro skill, and usually, where there's a barb/BM, a cleric isn't far behind.

My point is, any cleric who knows what they are doing will keep an eye on everyone's HP bars, not just the tank's, and will at least try to toss a heal at you or squeeze a group heal in if the situation allows it, but we can't do that if that takes us out of the range of the tank/DDer we're healing.

Furthermore, what happens if you run and die? The mob(s) turn back around the way they came and will aggro the next squad member, and yes, most likely the cleric, regardless, like you said. It's arguable whether the time it takes the mob to run back actually helps safe the squad.

Personally I'd rather everyone stay within reasonable range of me; that doesn't mean I want you glued to my butt. Plus, I'm perfectly capable of screaming "ADD/AGGRO!", and unless I'm tied to one spot ( BB/constant IH ) I will head toward the tank myself, if the damage I'm taking threatens my life.

My advice: unless you're being targeted by an archer/ranged mob, run in circles around the squad ( unless that means taking more aggro from other mobs ). If you're being targeted by an archer/ranged mob, running away isn't going to help, anyway.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

For all the things I am in charge of for keeping a party alive, if a DD keeps aggroing monsters away from the tank (and I watch how often a barb does FR, and I give the DD a few chances w/healing them if I can) then eventually I just let them learn the hard way. Either burn up their charm, let them take a lot of damage until they can figure out what to do their own self, or die. There are a good number of people that will not learn unless it's the hard way. DD's have very few responsibilities, one of which is learning how much dmg is too much, especially archers and wizards. Clerics cannot always make up for their errors or gung-ho excessive attacks, especially at the cost of the squad.

Morganna - Lost City

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For all the things I am in charge of for keeping a party alive, if a DD keeps aggroing monsters away from the tank (and I watch how often a barb does FR, and I give the DD a few chances w/healing them if I can) then eventually I just let them learn the hard way. Either burn up their charm, let them take a lot of damage until they can figure out what to do their own self, or die. There are a good number of people that will not learn unless it's the hard way. DD's have very few responsibilities, one of which is learning how much dmg is too much, especially archers and wizards. Clerics cannot always make up for their errors or gung-ho excessive attacks, especially at the cost of the squad.

Thank you!!! I know quite a few people who like to do this (I must be suicidal-- I keep partying with them) and I won't heal them after the third time. When you are taking aggro-- TAKE OFF YOUR RINGS; It halps, rather than possibly wiping the party.

SilentWisp - Heavens Tear

Tanks are tards, When I do pull agro from healing its often myself or the DD's that save me, not the tanks. If they don't see I've pulled agro they are on their own for healing till I've dealt with the problem they generated. I can take a beating so long as I fight back immediately. I have utterly no faith in cleric immobilization skills for escaping. The only time they seem to work for more than a split second is when the monster is pretty much dead, at least for me.

RedsRose - Lost City

SilentWisp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tanks are tards, When I do pull agro from healing its often myself or the DD's that save me, not the tanks. If they don't see I've pulled agro they are on their own for healing till I've dealt with the problem they generated. I can take a beating so long as I fight back immediately. I have utterly no faith in cleric immobilization skills for escaping. The only time they seem to work for more than a split second is when the monster is pretty much dead, at least for me.

You should not be pulling aggro from healing.

IF you do, you have healed too soon before the tank has aggro.

Morganna - Lost City

SilentWisp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tanks are tards, When I do pull agro from healing its often myself or the DD's that save me, not the tanks. If they don't see I've pulled agro they are on their own for healing till I've dealt with the problem they generated. I can take a beating so long as I fight back immediately. I have utterly no faith in cleric immobilization skills for escaping. The only time they seem to work for more than a split second is when the monster is pretty much dead, at least for me.

If you don't see an AoE, don't heal. Let the tank handle him/herself. They'll understand if you couldn't pull aggro. The only time I EVER pull aggro is to save a pulling veno when the tank lags. And only pulling aggro in his direction.

Rumble - Harshlands

It all depends on who you squad with. I did FC recently as the only cleric in the group. I'm LA and have a little over 3k hp unbuffed. My gear's decent, maybe even good, but not anniversary pack WOW gear. The squad I went with was great. It was my first run through FC and they talked me through every step as we approached it. It went great and I was complimented left and right. As someone who does a ton of FBs I found it fun, an absolute charm burner for clerics, but fun none the less. To be honest the squad as a whole was main reason for my success. No one was way over leveled, but all knew their job and place and did it. They didn't boss around, but helped when I asked. A good dynamic.

So a few days later another group forms for an FC run. They're asking for clerics so I raise my hand because none stepped forward. They questioned my ability and I agree its fair for them to do so given my level. I told them I've been once, it was successful (One person died at the bishop boss once, but I was slept then interrupted 7 times in a row so my heal was delayed, but they weren't the tank, just a veno outside of my AoE heal range at that moment) I also told them I had GAs and a rez scroll on me and was charmed in hp and mp. I asked that they pause at each stage so we can talk about the actions to take for each boss and they said OK. They had one other BM on the squad who had never been before as well and at least one other who had only been once. Levels ranged from 85 to 88 apart from me (79).

I should have known form the start it was going to be a fail. We waited forever for the tank and before he even got there they asked me to talk to the NPC to start (somehow I had been passed the lead), but my level was too low so I passed the lead to the highest level player. Then said I was too low. They then asked me to pass it to a different player to which I told them I already passed it to someone else. That person then passed it back to me and someone told me it would just be easier if I did what I was told. Off to a bad start in my book. Bad group dynamic.

So while they were busy telling me to do what I was told someone opened the door, the tank shows up and the higher level BM charges in at the first few mobs. I had to Holy Path to catch up, but threw some heals in and stabilized. The barb is not tanking. Not a good sign. The archer grabs aggro and somehow has time to comment that they will end up dying. I get heals on them and prevent that from happening, but the BM has charged on. I say 3 times in a row please stop so I can buff everyone (since we were waiting for the tank I held off on my buffs - no need to waste an mp charm) The BM keeps charging on and runs into the first room on the left and starts gathering mobs. No one is even close to her. Everyone else is back with me waiting for a buff, then when they see she didnt pause they rush in. Well now the fun begins. She thinks everyone is with her (good situation awareness....) and throws up a stun hoping that the barb is there to pull aggro, but he's not. I holy path again and try and throw a few heals on her hoping the barb will make it in time. He does not and she drops like a bag of dirt, I turn and run towards the tank who finally catches up. The veno also has her herc trying to aggro as many mobs as possible (she did her job) and the tank grabs aggro and tells me to run. By now the 2nd BM is also dead and the archer. Instead of running out of the instance I get the tanks hp stabilized. He had quite a few mobs on him and him and the veno started chopping down the mobs. Without a veno it took a while and since I was spamming IH drained my charm.

We clear it up and the BM form the ground has the nerve to complain how much of a charm burn it was for her???? As far as I could see my charm was the only one ticked multiple times. (and the tank until I got them stable). She then says its a fail, tells me to come back when I'm level 84 and boots me from the squad. Boots me from the squad even though it was her that caused the whole mess!!! I told her that we were all waiting for buffs and she said I should have applied them before if I knew what I was doing. When did they give me a chance? I asked 3 times since the start of the run for everyone to stop, but no one did and I'll be damned if I'm going to fire off 3 or 4 sets of squad buffs at the start and burn my charm any more then I have to.

So I rez'd the archer who's only comment to me was "sorry man" and left the 2 whining BMs sitting on the floor. Since she booted me form the squad my next step was easy. Free teleport out. I then saw them asking for a new cleric and 30 minutes after that asking for another cleric because they lost the one to replace me.......I wonder why.........

In any event a classic example of how to treat not just a cleric, but any squad member (FC run number 1) where you help each other out and respect each other and another example of how NOT to treat squad members (FC run number 2). Which run would you rather have been on?

Rumble - Harshlands

Sorry last note on my story above. She tried to put me down after I left and said how I was a fail and shouldn't attempt it until I was a higher level to which I responded I did my job. I kept myself alive and the tank alive plus as an added bonus the veno. How did you do at your job? b:chuckle

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear

wow reading these posts there are way more fail barbs then i thought
i know few fail clerics and a few true pro cleric(with the pros i have them solo heal me in TT1-3 uncharmed btw)
what annoys me generaly on bhs is (insert random DD here) are you sure you can keep agro then after the boss random DD whispers:wow you are a good barb thats like something that really annoys me cause i didnt even use half my tanking capabilities (about 75% of agro and 20% surviving)
i will never call myself pro but im getting sick off people underestimating me
if someone dies by an accidental agro pull and i couldnt save them on time i will always feel like its half my fault also if the cleric is any good(by being stupid i let you die not gonna risk the rest of the squad for you) he/she will be always the last 1 standing or so will i try

@SilentWisp you seem to hate barbs most of us try hard(atleast i do) but aoe agro control is definatly not easy for a barb also any good barb can survive a while with no heals you shouldnt keep healing constantly if you risk getting agro just consider your own mistakes to
also why dont you like them we are pretty much the best tanks(in most situations) of the game and good single target agro controllers
so just why(and not judging by fail barbs please)

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

SilentWisp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tanks are tards,

There's tards on both sides... actually on all 3 sides - tanks, DDs, healers. On every game.

- Tanks who fail to keep aggro because they're not careful.
- Healers who heal too fast if the tank can take multiple mobs, or are not careful WHO has aggro (especially in tank/offtank situations).
- Glass canons who don't watch their damage and steal aggro.

When I do pull agro from healing its often myself or the DD's that save me, not the tanks. If they don't see I've pulled agro they are on their own for healing till I've dealt with the problem they generated.

First off, don't heal until the tank has aggro on all mobs. I play main tank a lot, it takes me about 2-5 seconds until I can grab aggro (including runners and magic mobs) of the whole group of mobs. My charm might tick, but what the hell, I'm the one who decided to aggro that many. Let me get off an attack, my AOE stun maybe, then heal your heart out.

Second, that's what an offtank is for. I play offtank as well, and that's my job. If someone draws aggro too fast, I'm the one who'll rush and stun mobs, try to draw aggro away from the squishies, and yes, in most cases I can handle myself.

Actually, a lot of my problems with clerics are about their lack of attention. They see the tank and nothing else. Even if the tank doesn't have aggro, but the offtank has it, they'll heal the tank. They don't notice status effect - poison, fire and mana drain stack, folks.

Wanna know why I know this? Because I play 2 chars on 2 computers - tank AND cleric, and I have heavy ADHD problems. I don't always notice when someone else has aggro because I'm focused on healing myself.... because I'm the only one who should normally have aggro. On bad days, hell I'll mostly forget to heal my BM. On good days, I'll be main cleric, main tank and still do both jobs perfectly. Most of the time, I make mistakes... every now and then I pay for it, and in the end I have a good laugh at my own stupidity.

And yes, there's a lot of fail barbs. Sadly, clerics are usually the ones who'll get the blame - even when they don't deserve it. And sometimes, the WHOLE squad is made of freaking fail. See my 3 examples above.

Oh and huh... sorry for the wall of text. Can be resumed to: people fail, no matter what their class is. There's always gonna be someone who's gonna fail hard enough to make everyone playing the same class look bad. And of course they'll blame other people.

RavinTink - Sanctuary

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i rofl every time i c this, archers use mp? haha. all the archers to is normal attack, maybe a skill here and there.

I have to comment on this:

My husband has a lvl 84 archer, he does not ONLY use normal attacks. He goes thru MP pots/charms almost as fast as I do. Any archer who knows his class and knows how to run it uses close to the same amount of MP as a caster.

And just to let you know, that archer has saved my squishie **** on more than one occasion by taking agro from multiple mobs and bosses when the barb gets r'tarded and loses agro.

Ok Im done with my rant..b:laughb:chuckle Had to defend the archers...I love themb:dirtyb:kiss

OH btw, Archers pay just as much for arrows/charms/mp&hp pots...as a barb does in repairs. And STILL have to repair ontop of that.

/Radar/ - Lost City

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i rofl every time i c this, archers use mp? haha. all the archers to is normal attack, maybe a skill here and there.

one word: barrage

Yaxana - Sanctuary

Rumble - Harshlands wrote: »

In any event a classic example of how to treat not just a cleric, but any squad member (FC run number 1) where you help each other out and respect each other and another example of how NOT to treat squad members (FC run number 2). Which run would you rather have been on?

I hate it when people blame the cleric for no reason. I for one never ***** if I die during a FB/TT/BH, in fact I'd happily die to save the cleric, which I often do, I think it's better for me to lose 0.1% than the cleric to lose a GA or a high percentage of exp. Anyway next time something doesn't feel right, just leave the squad don't wait till you get kicked. >.<

Aadi - Lost City

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »

what annoys me generaly on bhs is (insert random DD here) are you sure you can keep agro then after the boss random DD whispers:wow you are a good barb thats like something that really annoys me cause i didnt even use half my tanking capabilities (about 75% of agro and 20% surviving)
i will never call myself pro but im getting sick off people underestimating me
if someone dies by an accidental agro pull and i couldnt save them on time i will always feel like its half my fault also if the cleric is any good(by being stupid i let you die not gonna risk the rest of the squad for you) he/she will be always the last 1 standing or so will i try

@SilentWisp you seem to hate barbs most of us try hard(atleast i do) but aoe agro control is definatly not easy for a barb also any good barb can survive a while with no heals you shouldnt keep healing constantly if you risk getting agro just consider your own mistakes to
also why dont you like them we are pretty much the best tanks(in most situations) of the game and good single target agro controllers
so just why(and not judging by fail barbs please)

Did you just say that you get annoyed when people whisper you that you're a good barb...? Or am I missing something here?

My own respect for tanks has been going down as of late. Today I did a BH69 with an 83 barbarian, with no veno to pull, which was fine, the barb pulled. Then he runs TO ME with polearm. The physical aoe hits me once for half my HP. Luckily for me, I had my inventory open, so I popped an event HP pot and ran my little cleric butt off to get out of the aoe range, as did every ranged DD since he was fighting it right where everyone was standing.

The second time, when he pulled Gaurnob, he comes running out of the hall in human form. His HP was already down to half since it was less in human form, and he was slower. He was also debuffed. So I healed him right as he came out, then ran for my life as I watched the boss turn to me. The boss runs RIGHT BY HIM, while he's still in human form, and he runs...the opposite way. I was floored as I died, and two DDs died as well. Since I was the only cleric I had to teleport to town and come back and ress everyone, then try again.

The worst part about that was, he wasn't a bad barb in other ways, just glaringly in that one. He canceled well, maybe two aoes actually landed on the squishies throughout one of the two last bosses. I guess some barbs are just better at some things b:surrender

/Radar/ - Lost City

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

he runs TO ME with polearm. The physical aoe hits me once for half my HP. Luckily for me, I had my inventory open, so I popped an event HP pot and ran my little cleric butt off to get out of the aoe range, as did every ranged DD since he was fighting it right where everyone was standing.

b:sweat

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

The second time, when he pulled Gaurnob, he comes running out of the hall in human form. His HP was already down to half since it was less in human form, and he was slower. He was also debuffed. So I healed him right as he came out, then ran for my life as I watched the boss turn to me. The boss runs RIGHT BY HIM, while he's still in human form, and he runs...the opposite way.

b:cold



these are prime examples of why oracles and scarlet fruit should be taken out of the game >_>


sidenote: you shoulda been there for the whole fb19 we were in... the barb pulled multiple link-aggro groups to us b:sweat
i really felt sorry for the cleric we had, she had to tank so much T_T

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

RavinTink - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have to comment on this:

My husband has a lvl 84 archer, he does not ONLY use normal attacks. He goes thru MP pots/charms almost as fast as I do. Any archer who knows his class and knows how to run it uses close to the same amount of MP as a caster.

And just to let you know, that archer has saved my squishie **** on more than one occasion by taking agro from multiple mobs and bosses when the barb gets r'tarded and loses agro.

Ok Im done with my rant..b:laughb:chuckle Had to defend the archers...I love themb:dirtyb:kiss

OH btw, Archers pay just as much for arrows/charms/mp&hp pots...as a barb does in repairs. And STILL have to repair ontop of that.

like i've said before, i have no problem w/ anyone that can play their class, but 99.999% or archers on HT only use 1 Sharpened tooth in the begining(if they know how to), then the go afk on auto attack.

but thats how it is for any phys DDing class pretty much.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

RavinTink - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have to comment on this:

My husband has a lvl 84 archer, he does not ONLY use normal attacks. He goes thru MP pots/charms almost as fast as I do. Any archer who knows his class and knows how to run it uses close to the same amount of MP as a caster.

And just to let you know, that archer has saved my squishie **** on more than one occasion by taking agro from multiple mobs and bosses when the barb gets r'tarded and loses agro.

Ok Im done with my rant..b:laughb:chuckle Had to defend the archers...I love themb:dirtyb:kiss

OH btw, Archers pay just as much for arrows/charms/mp&hp pots...as a barb does in repairs. And STILL have to repair ontop of that.

What skills does he use?

/Radar/ - Lost City

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

like i've said before, i have no problem w/ anyone that can play their class, but 99.999% or archers on HT only use 1 Sharpened tooth in the begining(if they know how to), then the go afk on auto attack.

but thats how it is for any fail player pretty much.

fixed it for you

makes me glad i'm not on HT.. if that's how all the archers play there

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What skills does he use?

This is a great example of the archers on HT haha

no clue wat they have to deliver

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is a great example of the archers on HT haha

no clue wat the have to deliver

Hmm... yes.. could you answer the question, please?

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmm... yes.. could you answer the question, please?

wow, and ur asking a cleric for advice? they might be even more mindless then hollow stump. plz don't use oracles if u don't know how to play the char b:bye

/Radar/ - Lost City

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wow, and ur asking a cleric for advice? they might be even more mindless then hollow stump. plz don't use oracles if u don't know how to play the char b:bye

direct that question at yourself... this particular archer has been 80+ for quite a time now


sidenote: fail troll is fail

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

/Radar/ - Lost City wrote: »

direct that question at yourself... this particular archer has been 80+ for quite a time now


sidenote: fail troll is fail

oh my mistake, i didn't know a 21 bm from LC ment u were a 80+ archer from HT. lvl doesn't mean ****, it's how well ur experienced.

and to hlp u figure it out, i've been here since before oracles, JJ and aniv packs, and i even took a 4 month break from the game and still know more than the whoracle nubs on the server, hell i've been in squads where i had to save a 90+ barbs **** cause the 90+ cleric couldn't heal him and the cleric ask "how'd u do that?"

i doubt many on the server know wat grinding, JO, or apotho means. and y the hell would i ask myself how to play an archer? plz crawl under the bridge u came from.

Quilue - Sanctuary

well just to clear something up, where does the majority of an archer's damage come from? oh wait, i think it might sort of kind of almost be normal attacks

skills? you mean those things that takes time to channel and cast, then only adds add-on damage? in the time it takes for an archer to cast a skill, he can most definitely have shot off extra hits, which would be much, much, more damage than the pathetic add-on of the skill. every archer that starts off with sharptooth then uses normal attacks is doing the best he/she can do. if we just spam metal and our DoTs or something **** like that, then that boss can sure as **** burn your charms for a lot longer. we're not bms, clerics, or venos, we don't have **** like heaven's flame, ironwood, amp, purge, seals, **** like that. the only useful status we can inflict on a boss is the max hp decrease from sharptooth. then the best we can do after that is deal as much damage as possible via normal attacks. unless you're taking on multiple bosses in which case an archer can use barrage for maximum damage. if some archer is skill spamming on a boss, that is WRONG.

but this is only talking about boss fights. on dungeon mobs good archers will stun/freeze kiting mobs, mobs that are attacking clerics, etc etc whatever

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i doubt many on the server know wat grinding, JO, or apotho means. and y the hell would i ask myself how to play an archer? plz crawl under the bridge u came from.[/COLOR]

People got spoiled using easy mode CS items when gold was dirt cheap. As you have seen in this thread, lots of clerics claim they need a MP charm or they cannot do runs, and on top of that, that they burn 200k MP on a single TT run, which is amaizing....
Being able to play without using the CS items as crutches is a lost art. Lots of people believe that barbs have to be charmed, and clerics need to be charmed to be able to play. Than, since they are spending a fortune in optional items, they expect special treatment from the rest of the players.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

well just to clear something up, where does the majority of an archer's damage come from? oh wait, i think it might sort of kind of almost be normal attacks

skills? you mean those things that takes time to channel and cast, then only adds add-on damage? in the time it takes for an archer to cast a skill, he can most definitely have shot off an extra hit, which would be much, much, more damage than the pathetic add-on of the skill. every archer that starts off with sharptooth then uses normal attacks is doing the best he/she can do. if we just spam metal and our DoTs or something **** like that, then that boss can sure as **** burn your charms for a lot longer. we're not bms, clerics, or venos, we don't have **** like heaven's flame, ironwood, amp, purge, seals, **** like that. the only useful status we can inflict on a boss is the max hp decrease from sharptooth. then the best we can do after that is deal as much damage as possible via normal attacks. unless you're taking on multiple bosses in which case an archer can use barrage for maximum damage.

but this is only talking about boss fights. on dungeon mobs good archers will stun/freeze kiting mobs, mobs that are attacking the clerics, etc etc whatever

now, if u can just come to ht and teach other archers that.

goodday