Sage Wizard VS Demon Wizard : the full thread

mazzle

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

I just don't see where the "demon mages can kill targets without chi" comes from, because sages can pretty much do the same thing... demon mages do it better yes but the difference isn't what some people like to make it out to be.

Mages need chi to kill i just mean demons dont need as much to get the job done m8

prof

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

I just don't see where the "demon mages can kill targets without chi" comes from, because sages can pretty much do the same thing... demon mages do it better yes but the difference isn't what some people like to make it out to be.

I've said the same thing about the difference in vigor between holy and dark. I honestly never find myself in a shortage of vigor.. so where's this huge lack of it I'm suppose to not have and that holy does?

and if you've used dark.divine, you know just how awesome it is. it hits.. surprisingly hard, and very fast. it becomes a bit quicker than stone rain, in my opinion. but hits harder. the only reason I use stone rain is because the chance to stun is always nice after I seal my opponent.

Kristoph - Lost City

prof wrote: »

I've said the same thing about the difference in vigor between holy and dark. I honestly never find myself in a shortage of vigor.. so where's this huge lack of it I'm suppose to not have and that holy does?

and if you've used dark.divine, you know just how awesome it is. it hits.. surprisingly hard, and very fast. it becomes a bit quicker than stone rain, in my opinion. but hits harder. the only reason I use stone rain is because the chance to stun is always nice after I seal my opponent.

Why not use sandstorm, glacial snare or pyrogram instead? Either hit harder or cast faster. There's a few rare situations where I can think of DPyro>SS, but not many..

prof

sandstorm is slow casting, and I only find myself using it as a 3rd hit on archers(if it crits, the archer dies. simple as that. plus mine is level 10). I only use glacial when I'm fighting a wr. seal > gush > blink > glacial.

otherwise, divine is faster for me and I can easily chain it together with other skills to kill something fast.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

The best advantage of sage is using ultimates much more often than demon can. Don't forget, that you can get 50 chi for nothing just from Master Li's Technique. The 50% chance to channel utility with just 1 spark. Also pyro gives you a chance to gain chi faster. Faster gained chi = more often 3 spark = more damage + more mana recovered etc.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The best advantage of sage is using ultimates much more often than demon can. Don't forget, that you can get 50 chi for nothing just from Master Li's Technique. The 50% chance to channel utility with just 1 spark. Also pyro gives you a chance to gain chi faster. Faster gained chi = more often 3 spark = more damage + more mana recovered etc.

You do know that what you say here has been stated by 1000000 sage mages already on the forums right?

Kristoph - Lost City

mazzle wrote: »

and krostoph sutra gives like 4 spells off in 6 seconds, yes that's fast with high dmg because of the masteries and 99 skills that allow you to use the dooms without running out of chi (50% chance to use 1 spark is what im refering to), but demon potential with just -50% channeling

gs 1.05+1.8 sec = 2.85
dp 1.25+1.0 sec = 2.2
pyro .06+0.8 sec =1.4
which total up to 6.4 seconds and wellspring gives 15 sec

In no way am i saying demon is better than sage because i like both, im just trying to get rid of biased comments/thoughts about demon and its capabilities.

Also, in response to this... a sage wizard using DP would have 2.0+1.0, but higher damage thanks to Wellspring Quaff (not as good as the demon version in this case, but since we're using it anyway...) and Fire Mastery.


In the end, the difference still isn't great imo. So meh, still not impressed. Demon = more pdef and target control along with an awesome triple spark, but my preference goes to easy chi saving. I think sage pyro/shrink/ults/chi skill make sage totally worth it.

prof

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The best advantage of sage is using ultimates much more often than demon can. Don't forget, that you can get 50 chi for nothing just from Master Li's Technique. The 50% chance to channel utility with just 1 spark. Also pyro gives you a chance to gain chi faster. Faster gained chi = more often 3 spark = more damage + more mana recovered etc.

you really, really over exaggerate this infinite vigor. you're not even 89 yet.

go sit in the kiddie corner until you realize that the difference is not that geat.

eppc

TO END ALL THESE IDIOTIC DISCUSSIONS I'M TELLING YOU THAT "PERSONAL" PARTS ARE ACTUALLY P.S.'S FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T DECIDE, AND THIS IS JUST WHERE YOU FIND ALL THE SKILLS COMPACTED.
GO SAGE, GO DEMON, IDC. I JUST STATED MY CASE IN HERE THAT SAGE COULD NUKE HIGHER THAN DEMON AND NOBODY CAN CHANGE MY THINKING.

/endthread

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

you really, really over exaggerate this infinite vigor. you're not even 89 yet.

go sit in the kiddie corner until you realize that the difference is not that geat.

Yep maybe is no so great, but is certainly difference is. If I just consider 50% for 1 spark. It mean every second ultimate with just 1 spark. So I can use 2 ultimates practically in row. With chi pot even 3 in row. Of course hypothetically. Because use 3 ultimates in TW would be little hard.b:laugh But not in TW just fighting some bosses would be nice.

prof

lolumad?

I like the ability to **** everything 1v1.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yep maybe is no so great, but is certainly difference is. If I just consider 50% for 1 spark. It mean every second ultimate with just 1 spark. So I can use 2 ultimates practically in row. With chi pot even 3 in row. Of course hypothetically. Because use 3 ultimates in TW would be little hard.b:laugh But not in TW just fighting some bosses would be nice.

you're not even 89 yet, yet you're bragging about 99.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

lolumad?

I like the ability to **** everything 1v1.



you're not even 89 yet, yet you're bragging about 99.

Sure, but decision I must do now not at lv.99.b:pleased

Silver - Dreamweaver

mazzle wrote: »

Have you even played either of the 2?

Yes i have played Sage Wizard, just 2 let you know

Silver - Dreamweaver

prof wrote: »

you all sound like broken records.

"big damage". sounds like the pinoys I play with. the damage difference is negligable, I prefer the crit from my passives. the -resistance skills are useless. if you're going to brag about -20% resist, I'll be awesome and brag about my -60% resist skill.

if you think all skills are in favour of holy, you've never seen what each skill can do.

if you think dark can't kill, you're just a biased twit. both kill just fine.

Lmao alright lemme but it like this D Wiz vs H Wiz, Dark wiz wins.
when it comes 2 wizards killing HA, Holy wiz kills WAY faster
When it comes 2 kill LA, D Wiz has good control but Holy wiz still kills faster
When it comes to wiz vs Arcane, Dark wiz has more control which is what it comes down 2.

Now Dark wiz is good But when it comes 2 what Wizards were made to do, Holy Wizard is the person for the job, Wizards are meant to kill, Not control opponet, Not have more "tanking/survival" ability, just cold blood hardcore no survivor kill, enough said.

Adroit - Lost City

Silver - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lmao alright lemme but it like this D Wiz vs H Wiz, Dark wiz wins.
when it comes 2 wizards killing HA, Holy wiz kills WAY faster
When it comes 2 kill LA, D Wiz has good control but Holy wiz still kills faster
When it comes to wiz vs Arcane, Dark wiz has more control which is what it comes down 2.

Now Dark wiz is good But when it comes 2 what Wizards were made to do, Holy Wizard is the person for the job, Wizards are meant to kill, Not control opponet, Not have more "tanking/survival" ability, just cold blood hardcore no survivor kill, enough said.

you have no idea what you are talking about..

Llama - Lost City

Emberstorm

Sage: reduces damage taken by 25%
Demon: 50% chance to stun for 3 secs

Personal: Again, its up to you. i see a tie here.

There is no tie here Demon is overpowered. First of all the skill is a charge up so you can cast it instantly. Instant AOE stun? Yes please.

Blade Tempest

Sage: 50% chance to cast with only 1 spark
Demon: 50% chance to cancel current skill of target.

Personal: Sage lets you save that spark, while the Demon version could use you a reason to shine in HH. demon won.

Demon fails miserably. The fact that Sage saves you a spark (and it procks often) is amazing. It means you can ulti more, which is what Mages are all about.

Morning Dew

Sage: 10% chance to fully heal.
Demon: +600 hp healed over 9 secs.

Personal: 10% isn't so reliable, but you have to admit full health is a pretty awsome thing if you are low on it. i see a tie here, again its up to you.

There is no tie here either. Demon is better because it gives the heal over time. That being said Sage is not bad either. 10% isn't alot but its good enough. And the heal itself is already a ton.

Glacial Snare

Sage: -20% water res for target
Demon: 2.1 sec channel (not 2.5)

Personal: Demon is for timers, while Sage is for damagers. sage won

I'm going with a tie on this one. If undine strike didn't exist sage would be tons better. But since it does it pretty much cuts that bonus in half. So the cast time for demon is still quite good.

Sage: doubles the damage if freezing suceeds.
Demon: 50% chance to freeze (not 33%)

Personal: 1/3 hits to freeze + Double damage if suceeds against 1/2 hits freeze + normal damage. sage looks really awsome if those 33% could use for you.

Since I have sage hailstorm I'm going to tell you right now its not nearly as good as it looks. Essentially if it paralyzes it puts a water DoT on the target equal to the base SKILL damage. So your weapon does not affect the damage, which makes it super weaksauce. Pretty much it hits like an AOE gush and will tick people in PVP 200-400 damage if it paralyzes. I prefer the 50% paralyze in this scenario.

Stone Barrier

Sage: +150% pdef (not 120%); +120% earth res
Demon: +150% earth res (not 120%); +120% pdef

Personal: Sage version comes out more balanced here, so i guess it won.
why it won? because always stacking what you have comes out useless if the other one is tiny.

I majorly disagree if you go off your reason hell is better. They are BOTH good but hell will earn you 1-2% more physical reduction over sage. And you will already have ridiculous earth defense.

Sandstorm

Sage: -accuracy effect(10)+5 secs
Demon: +1.2k earth dmg

Personal: Just like Gush, exept that maybe more would consider sage is better.

Hell is much better here. It hits extremely hard.

---

All in all it depends on your style. Hell is about control skills and cast time (3 spark) while Sage is about hitting hard and critting a lot.

I went sage, and I don't mind it.

Adroit - Lost City

Llama - Lost City wrote: »

I majorly disagree if you go off your reason hell is better. They are BOTH good but hell will earn you 1-2% more physical reduction over sage. And you will already have ridiculous earth defense.

lol u do realize he thinks sage stone barrier is better because we obviously have too much pdef and not enough earth res.. duh? b:laugh

Oneshotu - Lost City

#1 reason to go sage = iceDragon
#1 reason to go demon= earth barrier
so what do u want?
oneshot power

or the ability to tank 5 BMs at once.
also demon spark is better

Adroit - Lost City

Oneshotu - Lost City wrote: »

#1 reason to go sage = iceDragon
#1 reason to go demon= earth barrier
so what do u want?
oneshot power

or the ability to tank 5 BMs at once.
also demon spark is better

no silly.. that's just a BM's perspective of a wiz.. there is a whole lot more to it than that :P

Piliener - Lost City

Again opinion the dmg reduction from sage is nice too. I know we're known for our tanking abilities, but all the damage reduction you can get helps.

Llama - Lost City

Oneshotu - Lost City wrote: »

#1 reason to go sage = iceDragon
#1 reason to go demon= earth barrier
so what do u want?
oneshot power

or the ability to tank 5 BMs at once.
also demon spark is better

I never spark in PVP, use all my sparks ulti-ing people to death.

Silver - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

you have no idea what you are talking about..

hm.. o really enlighten me. Dont let this char lvl fool u, this isnt the only pw i played

eppc

i still don't get why you say demon barrier > sage barrier...
i mean, your eledef, regardless of ONLY earth def, is already sky-high. why you need even more? while your pdef remains underground...
well i got to understand Demon's are better against arcanes, which makes their barrier useful against the arcanes, while Sages are better against HA and LA, which makes their OWN barrier good for themselves.
but still, the sage one comes out more balanced eitherway, but PW matched the versions good. (though BT oneshots arcanes eitherway...)

so go demon, or go sage. my personal prefference is sage since (read first comment) and they are good against more types of armor. also the extra crit and one-shotting stuff is stuff I like, not 100% you too.

/endthread

drag0nball

eppc wrote: »

Emberstorm



Stone Barrier

Sage: +150% pdef (not 120%); +120% earth res
Demon: +150% earth res (not 120%); +120% pdef

Personal: Sage version comes out more balanced here, so i guess it won.
why it won? because always stacking what you have comes out useless if the other one is tiny. YOU ARE THE MORON HERE BECAUSE YOU NEED TO BALANCE YOU WEAKNESS TOWARDS YOUR STRENGTH AND NOT STACK WHAT YOU HAVE. IF YOU STACK WHAT YOU HAVE, YOU ARE A NOOB

[/B]

Since when has sage 150% physic defense and 120% earth defense???
That is the demon stone barrier as far as I know...
and the sage has 120% earth and 150% physical

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

eppc wrote: »

i still don't get why you say demon barrier > sage barrier...
i mean, your eledef, regardless of ONLY earth def, is already sky-high. why you need even more? while your pdef remains underground...
well i got to understand Demon's are better against arcanes, which makes their barrier useful against the arcanes, while Sages are better against HA and LA, which makes their OWN barrier good for themselves.
but still, the sage one comes out more balanced eitherway, but PW matched the versions good. (though BT oneshots arcanes eitherway...)

so go demon, or go sage. my personal prefference is sage since (read first comment) and they are good against more types of armor. also the extra crit and one-shotting stuff is stuff I like, not 100% you too.

/endthread

Lol this is a nice mis understanding. Demon stone barrier gives 150 % phy def. Read ecatomb correctly.

drag0nball wrote: »

Since when has sage 150% physic defense and 120% earth defense???
That is the demon stone barrier as far as I know...
and the sage has 120% earth and 150% physical

Indeed.

Adroit - Lost City

Silver - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lmao alright lemme but it like this D Wiz vs H Wiz, Dark wiz wins.
when it comes 2 wizards killing HA, Holy wiz kills WAY faster
When it comes 2 kill LA, D Wiz has good control but Holy wiz still kills faster
When it comes to wiz vs Arcane, Dark wiz has more control which is what it comes down 2.

Now Dark wiz is good But when it comes 2 what Wizards were made to do, Holy Wizard is the person for the job, Wizards are meant to kill, Not control opponet, Not have more "tanking/survival" ability, just cold blood hardcore no survivor kill, enough said.

Silver - Dreamweaver wrote: »

hm.. o really enlighten me. Dont let this char lvl fool u, this isnt the only pw i played

What makes you think D Wiz would kill a H wiz in a 1v1? Or that a sage wiz kills faster? As much as I like sage (and I am sage) you're missing the difference between the two. It comes down to sage relies on chi, while demon isn't as much. You can't just say D or H wins, it 100% depends on the skill of the player, the build, the luck (crits n procs for stuns etc), gear, pk pots, and anything else. I would argue that H has an advantage over D in a 1v1 being that the only real way to kill each other would be with a BT, and being that sage's BT is better, and sage can get it off more often. (although like I said.. it depends far more on other things than just the cultivation)

eppc

oh dangit... i jst noticed that... *****... its the demon barrier that has the 150% pdef... guess the sage barrier will be between the last ones ill buy in sage -DONT troll on this saying i couldn't reach 89 b:shutup-

Adroit - Lost City

eppc wrote: »

oh dangit... i jst noticed that... *****... its the demon barrier that has the 150% pdef... guess the sage barrier will be between the last ones ill buy in sage -DONT troll on this saying i couldn't reach 89 b:shutup-

lol epic b:laugh

Kannone - Heavens Tear

Silver - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lmao alright lemme but it like this D Wiz vs H Wiz, Dark wiz wins.
when it comes 2 wizards killing HA, Holy wiz kills WAY faster
When it comes 2 kill LA, D Wiz has good control but Holy wiz still kills faster
When it comes to wiz vs Arcane, Dark wiz has more control which is what it comes down 2.

Now Dark wiz is good But when it comes 2 what Wizards were made to do, Holy Wizard is the person for the job, Wizards are meant to kill, Not control opponet, Not have more "tanking/survival" ability, just cold blood hardcore no survivor kill, enough said.

They're both idiots for attacking another holy/dark mage. b:bye

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

Crown of Flame

Sage: 6546.95 damage over 15 secs (436 each second)
Demon: 5693 damage over 12 secs (474 each second)

Personal: clearly seen that demon pwns here. much more DPS.

Didn't anyone see this? Last time I checked, 6546.95 > 5693, not the other way around.