Sage Wizard VS Demon Wizard : the full thread

Adroit - Lost City

lol.. I thought the sage/demon threads were over a month or two ago.. =\
It's the same arguments going in circles over and over by new lowbie mages.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

ay4 wrote: »

erm and what about using lvl11 db and if you see you get agro you just put off your weapon. the dmg goes down but the usefull stuns from db remain and give some time for the other partymember to shot down the mobs. wrong suggestion?

It doesn't help. Even without weapon you still steal aggro. Confirmed by mage which do that. Damage is not problem. Main problem are stunts. This will grab aggro not damage. Of course damage can also steal aggro, but the main problem are stuns.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lol.. I thought the sage/demon threads were over a month or two ago.. =\
It's the same arguments going in circles over and over by new lowbie mages.

There are new wizards reaching end-game area all the time... this thread will never end ;]

JaneGray - Lost City

After going back through and reading this entire thread, I am considering sage for a few reasons:

1. I love Essential Sutra. Sutra is (in my noobish opinion) probably one of the greatest spells, because through it others are casted almost instantly. By going sage I would have more chi, and thus, able to cast sutra ridiculously.

2. Stone Rain. Stone Rain maxed out is as powerful as Sandstorm before going Demon.

and 3. Masteries.

Although I would like the extra pdef from demon and the timing skills, I am terribbly afraid of regretting going demon, which I hear is what happened.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A.) Kris is playing a holy mage. b:victory

B.) 1/2 of Miz's points are unnecessary & come off rather band-waggonish (especially considering he's never played to the 89 culti)

c.) Kristoph is naturally disposed to be both blunt and mean. b:surrender

who is this miz guy you speak of? b:surrender

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

JaneGray - Lost City wrote: »

After going back through and reading this entire thread, I am considering sage for a few reasons:

1. I love Essential Sutra. Sutra is (in my noobish opinion) probably one of the greatest spells, because through it others are casted almost instantly. By going sage I would have more chi, and thus, able to cast sutra ridiculously.

2. Stone Rain. Stone Rain maxed out is as powerful as Sandstorm before going Demon.

and 3. Masteries.

Although I would like the extra pdef from demon and the timing skills, I am terribbly afraid of regretting going demon, which I hear is what happened.

You still have lot of time to decision. Maybe you will change it couple times till time comes. Remember it is for forever. b:thanks

Specialmats - Heavens Tear

what everyone is saying is right about the pdef, it does have diminishing returns. but i'd say this allows demon wizards to focus more on channeling and less on pdef.

i'd say the only real disadvantage to being demon is the lack of chi building skills. sage hits harder but not by much. Remember that there is the 25% damage reduction on players along with the elemental resistance provided by armor.

demon skills give you a lot more player control. they give you almost double the stuns, freezes and seals than their sage counter parts. Demon taunt also drains 100 chi in the time a sage gains 50 chi. In my opinion, demon is more defensive/better in 1v1 because their skills allow them to gimp their opponents and prevent them from attacking.

sage would be better where many people are hitting the same target like tw or gank pk. whoever hits the hardest gets the kill.

i'd say sage skills are designed to build chi to spam their ultimates whereas demon skills are designed to survive/buy time until they can kill.

So it really comes down to play style. if you like to shoot off small spells until you are ready to drop an ultimate, sage is the way to go. If you like gimp your opponent and prevent them from killing you, until you have enough chi to kill them, demon.

Personally, I almost always pick survival over damage so i went demon. No point in killing people fast if you die fast too. You are more useful alive even if you dont do as much damage. You dont do any damage when you are dead.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

emon taunt also drains 100 chi in the time a sage gains 50 chi. In my opinion, demon is more defensive/better in 1v1 because their skills allow them to gimp their opponents and prevent them from attackin

since? i know about 50 chi in demon way not 100.

about chi, sage can gain chi where dont have target faster this the point.

in both cause 50chi not too much when u can get max 399 and potion too give 1,5spark...

i think in most of thing but this 50 demon chi?? hm idk but i tested in pw ms and still there 50 not 100.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

since? i know about 50 chi in demon way not 100.

Sage skill has 1 minute cooldown. Demon has 30 seconds cooldown.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Sage skill has 1 minute cooldown. Demon has 30 seconds cooldown.

oh i got what u mean. i forget that possibilityb:surrender

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Actually, if you are talking about survivability, pdef increases have constant returns.

..? lol are u sure about that.. b:chuckle

JaneGray - Lost City

Why are demon wizards more apt to succeed in 1v1 than sage wizards?

JaneGray - Lost City

...cuz of sages can get more chi shouldn't they be better?

Shadowvzs - Lost City

JaneGray - Lost City wrote: »

Why are demon wizards more apt to succeed in 1v1 than sage wizards?

in 1vs1 u must controll the enemy,there important the speed and status effects.

1vs1 demon>sage
in group pk sage gain advantage from +chi.

Adroit - Lost City

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

in 1vs1 u must controll the enemy,there important the speed and status effects.

1vs1 demon>sage
in group pk sage gain advantage from +chi.

i kill plenty of demon mages (I'm sage)... I've never even had a demon mage use pitfall or hailstorm on me in a serious fight, or emberstorm for that matter.. I've had stone rain hit me a number of times, but the dmg on that isn't amazing because of stone barrier.. and 20% chance rarely procs.

Most wiz vs wiz are quick casting non earth skills, interupts and BT.. so it comes down to demon having the extra 3% crit from masteries and .3 secs less from pyro, and I suppose the 2 second less cooldown on FoW. Sage gets 5% extra dmg from masteries, small chance for chi on pyro, half cost distance shrink, and obviously the chi skill (I'm not even going to count the demon chi burn skill.. when I see a demon character use that on me, I actually get a relaxed feeling knowing that I've got an extra 2 seconds for my charm to recharge/and a couple of free seconds to wait for cooldowns to run down.. along with an extra hit on my target while they are taking away a small chunk of my chi which I usually get back in another 2-3 seconds.)

Anyway.. neither of the bonus's are totally amazing and make the fight one sided, but I'd say a majority of the time a BT is going to end the fight. Being that the first BT usually wont kill someone the first time (abs domain for instance) I'd say the sage mage gets the advantage because of all the extra chi that can be used on sutra or another BT etc.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

i kill plenty of demon mages (I'm sage)... I've never even had a demon mage use pitfall or hailstorm on me in a serious fight, or emberstorm for that matter.. I've had stone rain hit me a number of times, but the dmg on that isn't amazing because of stone barrier.. and 20% chance rarely procs.

Most wiz vs wiz are quick casting non earth skills, interupts and BT.. so it comes down to demon having the extra 3% crit from masteries and .3 secs less from pyro, and I suppose the 2 second less cooldown on FoW. Sage gets 5% extra dmg from masteries, small chance for chi on pyro, half cost distance shrink, and obviously the chi skill (I'm not even going to count the demon chi burn skill.. when I see a demon character use that on me, I actually get a relaxed feeling knowing that I've got an extra 2 seconds for my charm to recharge/and a couple of free seconds to wait for cooldowns to run down.. along with an extra hit on my target while they are taking away a small chunk of my chi which I usually get back in another 2-3 seconds.)

Anyway.. neither of the bonus's are totally amazing and make the fight one sided, but I'd say a majority of the time a BT is going to end the fight. Being that the first BT usually wont kill someone the first time (abs domain for instance) I'd say the sage mage gets the advantage because of all the extra chi that can be used on sutra or another BT etc.

nah 1vs1 not allways wizz vs wizz but another main thing the skills, maybe nice some skill but cant get it everybody, here we have a bit advatage because sage skills in my server far cheaper, example i got free fire shield (not too usefull but more than nothing and was free), mainly similiar the other skills, if dont have too much holy wizz than price going down

BrownflameZ - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Let us say that you have 5k health 10k pdef, and you get another 1k pdef, and you are fighting a level 100 blademaster.

With 10k pdef, your 5k health can absorb 17.5k raw physical pvp damage. With 11k pdef, your 5k health can absorb 18.75k raw physical pvp damage. That's an extra 1250 damage you can absorb

If you had 0 pdef, your 5k health could have only absorbed 5k physical pvp damage. If you had 1k pdef you can absorb 6250 raw physical pvp damage. That's an extra 1250 damage you can absorb.

So, yes, if we are speaking of survivability -- and by "survivability" I mean how much damage you can soak up -- physical defense does not have diminishing returns.

All... that... math b:cry
The percentage still requires alot more pdef to go up after a threshhold, where it would be much more efficient to put resources into HP then Pdef.
So after 9k-10k pdef or so, your better of sharding HP.

That's how the cool kids do it anyways. In the end, your mage your way, build it however you want.

Kristoph - Lost City

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

barriers
-sageee- the 30% pdef from demon doesnt make much of a difference imo

Except that it's a HUGE difference. Will add an extra 1-1.5k pdef at least. What does this mean? You can use less pdef shards and more hp ones. Basically results in a higher HP and/or pdef. Sage has nothing over it but Earth resistance, and really, where are you going to need that?

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

pitfall
-are you serious?

Demon pitfall is one of the most important skills you can have in PK. Makes killing and surviving against archers, BMs, barbs and now assassins A LOT easier. Even sage pitfall is nice, I use it quite often compared to skills like stone rain which are almost useless to me now.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

hailstorm
-sage- of course demon has more freeze chance but get this, if sage freezes, it does a DoT over 4 seconds. Add in skills you use while the enemy is frozen= more damage than demon hailstorm.

Another ignorant opinion. Hailstorm's only purpose is freezing. I have sage hailstorm and I never use it simply because the skill is garbage, unless I'm really desperate to try and stop someone from moving. It's far too slow and the damage is horrid even @ sage.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Divine Pyrogram
-sage- the debuff is gonna be great. I hate when i have to waste time using undine on the enemy. It may be less than undine, but its something you can do while still attacking.

Divine pyrogram is one of the most awful skills a wizard has. Generally only useful in combination with sutra. If you don't undine before using sutra you're a moron. Only way to make it decent is if you have a good amount of -channeling. And hey, guess what? The demon version reduces channeling and they have -channel on triple spark and wellspring. Sage version is garbage.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wellspring Quaff
-sage- ninja spark

Lol typical for someone that's posting on something with a non respectable level. Sage Wellspring quaff is one of the most useless skills there is. Increasing the damage on sage dragon from 9k to 9.5k really doesn't interest me for what it costs. The demon version however, is actually useful because you can combine it with high channel low cast time spells like (divine) pyrogram.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

WotP
-i dont even use this skill that much, so i dont really care, sage though because this skills aoe already gets me in enough trouble

This makes you look stupid because phoenix is one of the best skills a mage has... I oneshot low 9x arcane users with it if they don't have vit or very good gear. Sage phoenix = 4.5k to other wizards easily if you do it right.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

glacial snare
-same as divine pyrogram

Completely worthless, Sage Sandstorm does the same damage as Sage Glacial Snare even if I don't undine. It only matters if you're attacking something with high resistances, which would mean arcane etc. If you don't use undine on them you're an idiot to begin with.


I'm guessing you're some awful troll or an idiot. Gee tee eff ooh.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Divine pyrogram is one of the most awful skills a wizard has. Generally only useful in combination with sutra. If you don't undine before using sutra you're a moron. Only way to make it decent is if you have a good amount of -channeling. And hey, guess what? The demon version reduces channeling and they have -channel on triple spark and wellspring. Sage version is garbage.

Only if you are 100% PvP player.

Debuff on D. Pyrogram and Glacial Snare should be useful in PvE, whether it would be grinding on Metal or Fire mobs or killing TT bosses with that elements.


Demon versions are better but it doesn't mean Sage versions has to be garbage straight ahead.

Specialmats - Heavens Tear

demon>sage

because if you are good, you will get ganked. and if you get ganked survival is more important than damage.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Specialmats - Heavens Tear wrote: »

demon>sage

because if you are good, you will get ganked. and if you get ganked survival is more important than damage.

and demon better survivor?b:laughb:shutup

idk but if i dont say bullsht then in pw that more survivor who spent more money or time to game (and not +30%eq pdef)

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Specialmats - Heavens Tear wrote: »

demon>sage

because if you are good, you will get ganked. and if you get ganked survival is more important than damage.

Said Noob ORACLE 2 weeks player.b:laughb:laughb:laugh

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Specialmats - Heavens Tear wrote: »

demon>sage

because if you are good, you will get ganked. and if you get ganked survival is more important than damage.

says the person who asked how to kill arcanes in pvp....

Specialmats - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Said Noob ORACLE 2 weeks player.b:laughb:laughb:laugh

i bet a lot more people in high level tw guilds are a lot more afraid of me than they are of you on heavens tear. as far as i'm concerned you are a nobody. i'm probably a better veno, wizard and assassin than you will ever be.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Specialmats - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i bet a lot more people in high level tw guilds are a lot more afraid of me than they are of you on heavens tear. as far as i'm concerned you are a nobody. i'm probably a better veno, wizard and assassin than you will ever be.

You're right. b:laughb:laughb:laughb:laugh

angelicluvly

GAWD U GUYS R BIASED....HERE'S MY OPINION...JUST PLAY WITH OUR OWN STYLE...THE ONLY DIFFERENT ABOUT SAGE AND DEMON IS HOW THEY ARE SPELLED AND PRONOUNCED...

oh and i dont really care about the demon/sage skill..its all the same to me...all i know is the right combo and they r dead >.> end game

p.s sorry if i took 3 years lol

SweetieBot - Lothranis

angelicluvly wrote: »

GAWD U GUYS R BIASED....HERE'S MY OPINION...JUST PLAY WITH OUR OWN STYLE...THE ONLY DIFFERENT ABOUT SAGE AND DEMON IS HOW THEY ARE SPELLED AND PRONOUNCED...

oh and i dont really care about the demon/sage skill..its all the same to me...all i know is the right combo and they r dead >.> end game

p.s sorry if i took 3 years lol

NECROOO!!!!!!!

angelicluvly replied to a message that was 3 years 4 months 30 days 18 hours 23 minutes old.

mryoshi03

SweetieBot - Lothranis wrote: »

NECROOO!!!!!!!

angelicluvly replied to a message that was 3 years 4 months 30 days 18 hours 23 minutes old.

just die

ovenusarmanio

I'd rather this necro die instead of the robot. -closed-

opkossy

I require more facepalm.

/alsoclosed