DQ Horses: Options?

Foulcault - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Come on ice, the time you spend flying is time you're not getting xp/sp/coin,

Actually if you manage your time and multitask you can do it when grinding/questing/FBIng is not an option. That's how I got mine or as I am running around doing quests I'll take a slight detour to grab one nearby.

Coraline - Lost City

Honestly..if you guys put this much effort into stuff that you disagree with Irl esp politics...the world might be a lot different. But anyway if you worked for the horse doing DQ's then good for you, if you just saved up to buy the gold for it, good for you also. Idk..i think people are making too much of a big deal over a game. I understand where people are coming from but yeah. I guess it would be like if someone spent 400$ buying rainbow eggs for the goldmane lion or the ninetails, only for it to be released the next day. I mean, **** happens and you just have to deal with it and not be so upset.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Foulcault - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually if you manage your time and multitask you can do it when grinding/questing/FBIng is not an option. That's how I got mine or as I am running around doing quests I'll take a slight detour to grab one nearby.

Come on, it's always gonna mean some extra traveling... if you're doing DQ efficiently chances are you're collecting drops for more than just 1 go anyway

Coraline - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly..if you guys put this much effort into stuff that you disagree with Irl esp politics...the world might be a lot different. But anyway if you worked for the horse doing DQ's then good for you, if you just saved up to buy the gold for it, good for you also. Idk..i think people are making too much of a big deal over a game. I understand where people are coming from but yeah. I guess it would be like if someone spent 400$ buying rainbow eggs for the goldmane lion or the ninetails, only for it to be released the next day. I mean, **** happens and you just have to deal with it and not be so upset.

I agree... tho i will say my grandfather did try putting some effort in changing things in politics, got riddled with over 60 bullets for that...

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

This is how I feel about the controversy.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2009/20090812.jpg

RedMenace

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

What I mean is to differentiate horses purchased with DOs from horses purchased in CS. That includes horses owned before the patch, as well as ones bought with DOs after the patch.

Something like this would literally take a roll back of the servers to accomplish. There is no way they could go 1 by 1 and differentiate who had a DQ horse and who had a CS horse. That kind of man power is just too much to even consider.

There is no way to do it, without further making people angry. Weather it be the earlier or the latter.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Foulcault - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not trying to be mean by this but what is left that is DO only? Molds I thought were also dropable and the armor I think is all that is left and the gambling which noone seems to know about? If anything this has been my biggest yell the whole time. The two glowers likely accounted for 50% of the demand or more. The other items were either easier to get dropped, bought, or were no good I thought.

High level magic rings. Only way to get them is DQs, when it comes down to it. You can't even get them for chips, like the physical rings. Also, the 3rd horse (I believe it is the plain white one, that uses more orders than the glowing ones).

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Come on ice, the time you spend flying is time you're not getting xp/sp/coin, and yea, you can cut on it a lot with maxed aerogear but that's not exactly free is it? we could go back and forth with this argument all day, at least you grant me doing DQ is boring...

Getting one of the horses used to be as hard as getting, say an herc. What would you think would happen if they decided to introduce herc as a tameable mob? You wouldn't just tell people to shrug it off now would you?

The right analogy would be what if they made the Herc cheaper. (since you still have to buy the horses, they are not free). And the answer is, lots of venos would get really happy. I bought my herc over 2 sales, and it only costed me around 9million. I do not remember people screaming in the forums that there was a cheaper way to get the hercs.......

clevernickname

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The right analogy would be what if they made the Herc cheaper. (since you still have to buy the horses, they are not free). And the answer is, lots of venos would get really happy. I bought my herc over 2 sales, and it only costed me around 9million. I do not remember people screaming in the forums that there was a cheaper way to get the hercs.......

likely because the sales were temporary. a permanent price reduction might generate a different reaction.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The right analogy would be what if they made the Herc cheaper. (since you still have to buy the horses, they are not free). And the answer is, lots of venos would get really happy. I bought my herc over 2 sales, and it only costed me around 9million. I do not remember people screaming in the forums that there was a cheaper way to get the hercs.......

I must disagree. I saw plenty of people complain that they just bought all the pet packs before they went on sale and was miffed. But.. all of this is the equivalent of buying an item on the Thursday before black Friday... you sometimes don't know what is on sale from your favorite store, but you will utilize it if you can and chuck the fact it was on sale yesterday.

Kiexcolo - Sanctuary

WTG, reward those ppl who didn't have the determination to put in the effort to obtain the DOs. Even people who bought DOs are way better since the money they spent goes to the people who did the DQ. Give the masses the easy way out because they are the majority and they whine about not being able to have a rare mount, and show those people who worked for it what fools they are by offering it for only 20 gold.

Put the horses in the boutique? Fine, but why the 20 gold price. Whats the rationality behind that when its available as a DQ reward for 50 Silver and 50 Copper DOs which is definately way more than 20 gold? How are the PWI staff being accountable to the people who have worked for it???

I don't own either of the horses myself but I feel strongly about this too because I know how difficult it is to get a Silver DO before lvl71 since I do DQ myself (70+ copper and only 15 Silver, something is really wrong with these odds)

The people who were affected have a right to be upset and QQ so that the PWI staff knows that they are unhappy, otherwise stuff like this is just gonna repeat again and next time you might be the one who is affected.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I think the only problem is that there aren't enough new in-game items being added.

Shiny horses are fairly old hat, now. They're only rare because they're not actually all that good.
If they ONLY existed in the cash shop, would you really expect them priced as high as they are?

J_Brightstar - Sanctuary

I'm one of those who was saving DO's for a horse. I had my copper,and 5 silver. I had just hit lvl 71 and was looking forward to getting the rest of the silver when the horses hit the cash shop. That horse was a major long term goal for me, and it is now gone. My DO's are pretty much worthless. When I saw that the horses were added to the cash shop, I considered never logging in again. I feel a trust has been broken. As leader of a faction, I obviously had to log in, but the game has changed in a major way for me. I took a lot of criticism from people for doing DQ in the first place, and now I'm being laughed at. I'm still not sure I'm going to continue playing.

Add to that, that I went to charge my zen this morning (20, not my customary 50), and found out that the 300 bonus had been removed from Google checkout. Needless to say, I didn't recharge my zen, nor will I ever again. Maybe the rest of us who were working towards or have the DQ horses should do the same. Maybe that will send a message to PWI. After all, it's the one thing they'll notice quick, and actually do something about it.

To the person who compared the horses to the herc. I understand what you were getting at, but keep in mind SoF and feathers come from the cash shop. So it's not quite the same. But hey, maybe PW will make it easy on everyone and put herc and nix in the cash shop for $10. Oh,wait. They wouldn't be making money off the pet packs then would they. Guess you're safe. For now. (This was a dig at PW, no offense intended at the person who made the comparison.)

eatwithspoons

J_Brightstar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm one of those who was saving DO's for a horse. I had my copper,and 5 silver. I had just hit lvl 71 and was looking forward to getting the rest of the silver when the horses hit the cash shop. That horse was a major long term goal for me, and it is now gone. My DO's are pretty much worthless. When I saw that the horses were added to the cash shop, I considered never logging in again. I feel a trust has been broken. As leader of a faction, I obviously had to log in, but the game has changed in a major way for me. I took a lot of criticism from people for doing DQ in the first place, and now I'm being laughed at. I'm still not sure I'm going to continue playing.

Add to that, that I went to charge my zen this morning (20, not my customary 50), and found out that the 300 bonus had been removed from Google checkout. Needless to say, I didn't recharge my zen, nor will I ever again. Maybe the rest of us who were working towards or have the DQ horses should do the same. Maybe that will send a message to PWI. After all, it's the one thing they'll notice quick, and actually do something about it.

To the person who compared the horses to the herc. I understand what you were getting at, but keep in mind SoF and feathers come from the cash shop. So it's not quite the same. But hey, maybe PW will make it easy on everyone and put herc and nix in the cash shop for $10. Oh,wait. They wouldn't be making money off the pet packs then would they. Guess you're safe. For now. (This was a dig at PW, no offense intended at the person who made the comparison.)

I clearly made note in the most recent news post that the Google payment option no longer carries the base bonus. I used to use it too, so I understand where you're coming from

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

hey ppl i wrote them a message regarding releasing a DQ mount 2 days after i got it. Here we go:




Saying that my effort are 20$ worth now, after one month grinding, doing DQ and spending real cash on it as well (way more then 20$) is insulting me. I didnt save money at all-To degrade my effort of one month to 2mil (two days after i got my horse) from one day to another is way more then offending. And yes i wont buy any Gold anymore as well...why should i? As they said...its a free to play game gonna wait now till other rare mounts gonna go on sale for few gold and get it then from a kitty for 3mil. Peace and out!
b:bye

Edit: Comment to removing my quote: -.- i think its an email EVERYONE gets regarding this matter so whatever... gonna go and let my frustartion out on yan the pirat and then sell my silver mane for 3mil. Dont even want to look at it anymore xD...be well

eatwithspoons

Hi Cold, just FYI:

Forum Rules wrote:

8. No posting of personal conversations or personal information (from IMs or PMs).
Topics such as these are considered breaches of privacy. Please refrain from posting such items including, but not limited to, email exchanges with GMs, admins, moderators, PWE Customer Service or personal communications with other members.

Kephras - Heavens Tear

/facepalm

Let's look at it from the boutique angle a second: $20 allows purchase of something that used to cost 15-20mil (Over $100 in gold-exchange terms). People complain about the value being stripped away - in this particular instance, they've got every right to.

-The current minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.50/hr*. Figure in taxes, you get to keep about $5.50 of that, maybe more. So for four hours of work, be it flipping burgers, filing paperwork, or scrubbing toilets - whatever it is you do, even if you're making minimum wage, four hours will net you a horse. That's not even a full shift, in most cases. Typical part-time jobs schedule for at least 5-6hrs, and often longer.

-It takes a matter of weeks, in most cases, months to earn the DQ orders. Or the cash to buy the orders. Or the cash to buy the horse. And for those who want to immediatley point out "Oh, but you can buy it, it's the same thing!" NO IT IS NOT. DQ orders stem from a single, IN GAME source. Doesn't matter if you're forking over coin to a catshop or auction, or if you're forking over the orders to the DQ reward NPC, the point stands that the Dragon Quests were required by someone to 'create' that horse. Those quests take time, effort and dedication.

-Summary: PWI has taken weeks of gameplay and reduced it to a four-hour shift at Burger King.

This is probably a bit too far back in the pages for anyone to notice, but maybe it'll get the point across clearer: buying mount ingame =/= buying from CS. Not even close.

*I'm using this as a baseline example - if your state's minimum is lower, fine. Add an hour. The point holds, regardless.

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver

Meh, I see no issue. If it's a matter of pride in how much effort you put into getting the horse, then that shouldn't change. Nothing can ever take away the time and dedication you put into getting it. Will there be more people riding around on the equine monstrosities? Probably, but even if everyone else has one, you still know how much time and effort you put into getting it.

It's just like with the new Pokemon Gold and Silver remakes coming out, a lot of people over on the Serebii forums are upset because their precious red Gyarados they worked so hard to get through breeding countless Magikarp eggs will supposedly become less valuable since you'll be able to capture a red Gyarados at the Lake of Rage. I'm not one of them. The red Gyarados I have will always be just as special to me even if there's a million others just like him because of all the effort I put into getting him. That's good enough for me.

Similarly, my goal is to earn either a Daevas, or Zuriels Blade, by saving up enough coins to buy one. It'll probably take a long time, and sure, I could just buy one for $30, I know they're probably not all that "rare" or "special" to anyone else, but it's the effort of getting one that'll make it special to me, not the rarity. As with life, it's not the destination that matters most, it's how you get there.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

/facepalm

Let's look at it from the boutique angle a second: $20 allows purchase of something that used to cost 15-20mil (Over $100 in gold-exchange terms). People complain about the value being stripped away - in this particular instance, they've got every right to.

-The current minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.50/hr*. Figure in taxes, you get to keep about $5.50 of that, maybe more. So for four hours of work, be it flipping burgers, filing paperwork, or scrubbing toilets - whatever it is you do, even if you're making minimum wage, four hours will net you a horse. That's not even a full shift, in most cases. Typical part-time jobs schedule for at least 5-6hrs, and often longer.

-It takes a matter of weeks, in most cases, months to earn the DQ orders. Or the cash to buy the orders. Or the cash to buy the horse. And for those who want to immediatley point out "Oh, but you can buy it, it's the same thing!" NO IT IS NOT. DQ orders stem from a single, IN GAME source. Doesn't matter if you're forking over coin to a catshop or auction, or if you're forking over the orders to the DQ reward NPC, the point stands that the Dragon Quests were required by someone to 'create' that horse. Those quests take time, effort and dedication.

-Summary: PWI has taken weeks of gameplay and reduced it to a four-hour shift at Burger King.

This is probably a bit too far back in the pages for anyone to notice, but maybe it'll get the point across clearer: buying mount ingame =/= buying from CS. Not even close.

*I'm using this as a baseline example - if your state's minimum is lower, fine. Add an hour. The point holds, regardless.

I'd see where you're coming from IF those orders were coming from a single seller,but they weren't in most cases i'd say,one dq is not hard or long to do...hell when i'd do dq's way back it was mostly for the exp and the orders i just sold in AH...now i'm sure i'm not the only one who did that.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

-The current minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.50/hr*. Figure in taxes, you get to keep about $5.50 of that, maybe more. So for four hours of work, be it flipping burgers, filing paperwork, or scrubbing toilets - whatever it is you do, even if you're making minimum wage, four hours will net you a horse. That's not even a full shift, in most cases. Typical part-time jobs schedule for at least 5-6hrs, and often longer.

-It takes a matter of weeks, in most cases, months to earn the DQ orders. Or the cash to buy the orders. Or the cash to buy the horse. And for those who want to immediatley point out "Oh, but you can buy it, it's the same thing!" NO IT IS NOT. DQ orders stem from a single, IN GAME source. Doesn't matter if you're forking over coin to a catshop or auction, or if you're forking over the orders to the DQ reward NPC, the point stands that the Dragon Quests were required by someone to 'create' that horse. Those quests take time, effort and dedication.

-Summary: PWI has taken weeks of gameplay and reduced it to a four-hour shift at Burger King.

Lets face it. reality is that pple rather play games for a whole month than applying for a job and working several hours a day b:chuckle

kered888

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lets face it. reality is that pple rather play games for a whole month than applying for a job and working several hours a day b:chuckle

this quote really made me lol b:laugh... i feel for the ppl who got their horse the hard way.. but i'm glad the horse is available to CS users..

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Meh, I see no issue. If it's a matter of pride in how much effort you put into getting the horse, then that shouldn't change. Nothing can ever take away the time and dedication you put into getting it. Will there be more people riding around on the equine monstrosities? Probably, but even if everyone else has one, you still know how much time and effort you put into getting it.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much an argument that i have a problem with. A game is, by definition, a competitive enviroment so i don't see anything wrong with being acknowledged by your success in it. Someone carrying an expensive, rare item is either 1. an accomplished player (in whatever aspect of the game, even if its just smart trading) or 2. a generous sponsor, both of which are suposed to be good things right? If you do, then you must have either 1. my respect or 2. my gratitude.

Yes, i know there's always a couple of persons who are just plain lucky or got their stuff scamming/manipulating others but that's also a part of the game.

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver

One of the definitions of game is a competition, however it specifically states that the participants are in direct competition to each other, and apart from PVP, the only other competition I know of is player ranking, and that looks to be based solely on your level, not your items. The first definition of game however, is simply "Activity engaged in for diversion or amusement." If you worked hard to earn the mount, super, you can still hold your head high and say that you did it with pride. Sure there may be some people who won't believe you and think that you just bought it from the boutique, that's their problem. You know what you went through to earn it, that's all that matters. In fact, if anything I should think you'd be able to say it with even more pride. I know if I spent years scrimping and saving for, let's say a car I always wanted, even if everyone else on the planet was just handed the keys to one a week after I finally got my car, I'd still be able to hold my head high and say "Oh yeah? Well I spent years saving to get mine, all you had to do was hold out your hand and say gimme now."

Bearleeable - Lost City

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

I really like this idea. ;x

I agree with Aadi as usual... make the DQ ones special.. maybe faster from the get-go And certainely have a special effect.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver wrote: »

One of the definitions of game is a competition, however it specifically states that the participants are in direct competition to each other, and apart from PVP, the only other competition I know of is player ranking, and that looks to be based solely on your level, not your items. The first definition of game however, is simply "Activity engaged in for diversion or amusement." If you worked hard to earn the mount, super, you can still hold your head high and say that you did it with pride. Sure there may be some people who won't believe you and think that you just bought it from the boutique, that's their problem. You know what you went through to earn it, that's all that matters. In fact, if anything I should think you'd be able to say it with even more pride. I know if I spent years scrimping and saving for, let's say a car I always wanted, even if everyone else on the planet was just handed the keys to one a week after I finally got my car, I'd still be able to hold my head high and say "Oh yeah? Well I spent years saving to get mine, all you had to do was hold out your hand and say gimme now."

This game is competitive in many levels for many people, no one has to adjust their point of view to yours. If it took me years to save for a car that i later found out was being handed gratis to others i would sue. I would take no pride in having worked hard for something others get with little effort, i'm not a fool. People who worked hard for their mounts lost millions in coins as now they have lost their original resale value, boasting with "pride" that they got it the hard way in no way makes up for their wasted efforts...
Holding your head up high might be enough for you, but some people may want to hold on to what they've earned fair and square. It's not greed, it's the principle.

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver

But they still have the equine monsters, they're not being taken from them, so they still have exactly what they worked so hard for. And I never said anything about being greedy, now did I?

MANray_ - Sanctuary

ok, lost million of coins, did you read that?
Edit; What they worked for was a rare mount, which they no longer have.

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver

They lost absolutely nothing, they have the same mount they had before, the only difference is now it can be bought for $30, $30 which helps to keep Perfect World free I might add, or it can still be acquired the traditional way. Also, you can't lose millions of coins that weren't yours to begin with. If you were walking along the street, and saw a hundred dollar bill on the ground, that someone else picked up before you, would you claim to have lost that money because of it? Had they already sold the mount, and then someone decided "Hey, let's take 75% of the coins from every player." then they would have lost millions of coins, but since those coins weren't yet in their possession, and they still have the same exact equine monstrosity as before, nothing has been lost.

Aadi - Lost City

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver wrote: »

they still have the same exact equine monstrosity as before

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But they still have the equine monsters

You don't have a very high opinion of the horses do you :<

Rurik_Niall - Dreamweaver

Equinophobic, would be the most accurate way to describe me. b:sweat

Solandri - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is pretty much an argument that i have a problem with. A game is, by definition, a competitive enviroment so i don't see anything wrong with being acknowledged by your success in it. Someone carrying an expensive, rare item is either 1. an accomplished player (in whatever aspect of the game, even if its just smart trading) or 2. a generous sponsor, both of which are suposed to be good things right? If you do, then you must have either 1. my respect or 2. my gratitude.

This is getting into metagaming, but: The problem I've had with (1) in most games is that more often than not, it's more an indication of how much free time the person has to waste, not their level of accomplishment. It's a trait I think should neither be encouraged (spending copious amounts of free time in a game for pixels on a screen), applauded, nor rewarded, both in real life and in games. Trophies and rewards should be based on ability, cleverness, experience, or even luck; not on how much free time you've spent in the game.

If you design your game to reward time spent in the game, it just encourages things like botting. It's virtually impossible to stamp out botting by catcing people in the act and banning them. IMHO a much better strategy is to design your game so that botting is less effective. e.g. Instead of each fight being exactly the same, implement a combat system where things are different every time and the player needs to make adjustments as they fight. Make the synergies between different classes stronger so a party whose members coordinate and cooperate well have a significant advantage over a solo player. (Don't just give them an exp bonus for grouping.)