DQ Horses: Options?

Kephras - Heavens Tear

The addition of the two DQ horses Silver Mane and Violet Lightning to the boutique has caused quite a ruckus on the boards. But what should actually be done about it? If anything? The GMs say they do listen, but I sincerely doubt they can get anything useful out of myriad QQ threads and what amounts to mass hysteria - even hysteria riddled with intelligent and well-thought-out reasoning. Hopefully a poll will provide some more concise and useful feedback.

Hey, we can hope at least...

Kephras - Heavens Tear

For my part personally, I would like to see them gone entirely, and moved back to DQ-only rewards. Unlike previous boutique additions, having these mounts in boutique devalues not only the resale of the beasts, but the hard work it took to obtain them.
-I will concede that there are some who know how to play the market, make coin like nobody's business, and buy the DQ orders or the mount itself, without doing the long series of quests.
-The root of this argument is that the only way to obtain these particular mounts is through hard work: either yours, earning each copper and silver order yourself, or purchasing it from someone who did.

In other words, the decision to add these these to the cash shop undermines countless hours of gameplay, dedication, and commitment to a long-term goal - and for a scant $20 at that.

EDIT: My bias comes from knowing someone who worked long and hard to earn a Silver Mane, the hard way. I do not take DQs myself, nor have any personal interest in the horses.

Darkjagans - Heavens Tear

Basically nothing can be done really, it's already up in the shops.

Removing the DQ mounts now or changing anything anytime soon will probably only cause more chaos and disrupt after announcing them as permanent additions to the shop for 20G.

However I do feel strong sympathy towards those who got them the hard way, and personally i really think they should've kept them as DQ rewards.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Rarity is overrated. Just be happy you have the item you have. What else should matter?

Mantas - Sanctuary

i voted for option #3. But this never gonna happen. U cant have anything rare in this game. If u think u have, wait for a few weeks or months and u can find it in boutique b:sad

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Rarity is overrated. Just be happy you have the item you have. What else should matter?

Because now they cannot rip off other players by selling it at 20million.....

Darkjagans - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because now they cannot rip off other players by selling it at 20million.....

I don't own a horse but I really wouldn't call it as "rip off other players", it's a bit harsh, it really does cost alot for the Dragon Orders, as well as time and effort to obtain those horses

Who really honestly expected these DQ horses to be in the cash shop?

What's next? Warsoul Fragments? TT mats? Oracles?

You call all those who put time and effort into getting the horses greedy, yet those who want to keep the horses cheap and readily available for them in the cash shop are not? are they not the same then?

It's not always about greed, it puts a lot of players into a position to think whether or not it's worth the time and effort to get anything anymore

Yes, things do depreciate and lose their rarity over time, but not in such a short time frame, you don't expect to buy a car for 20k, only to have it permanently reduced to a price of 2k a few weeks later, it's just not right

Peritia - Lost City

I have a guildie who worked her butt off to get her Silvermane. She'd only had it a few weeks, but its rarity and the looks people would give it acted as a testament to her efforts.

Then... Boom. Any shmuck can get them for 20G, any time they want. My heart broke when I saw their addition, as I am aware of how many hours many horse owners put into the game to get them.

While I understand that rotating things through the cash shop is necessary for the game to operate (financially), there are certain items which I feel should remain rewards for ingame efforts, including the two (formerly) DQ horses.

While I doubt PWE will bother to make amends, I personally feel that the "right" course of action would be to take one of the following:

i) Remove the DQ horses from boutique without advance notice. Let the people who already bought them keep them, placing at least some cap on the rarity.

ii) Add an additional sparkle effect, or something and rename DQ horses which existed prior to their addition in the boutique. This keeps the prestige of owning a DQ version.

iii) Mailout a scroll-type item to everyone who owned a DQ horse prior to the update which is non-transferable, which activates a one-time only quest allowing them to trade their horse back in for DQ orders, which will let them recoup previous value.

None seems remotely likely though, and (iii) is a downright fantasy.

Hopefully even if no action is taken in this case, PWE might wake up a bit as to the impact of its practices on players. Not holding my breath, though.

Kephras - Heavens Tear

For some people, it IS all about the 'resale' value. Being able to sell off a single item for 15-20 mil must be pretty nice. I wouldn't know.

For some folks it's about the status and rarity: as time goes on, more people will do DQ, earn the horses, and their rarity will decrease. This is natural progression - used to be, I saw someone with TT90 armor and my jaw dropped. Now it's pretty common stuff.

And then for some like myself, it's a slap in the face of the time & effort someone put into obtaining a desirable reward. Does it lessen their own accomplishments? Some might say no, they still put in the work and earned it the hard way - but on the other hand, how could it not when any Joe Schmoe with $20 to burn can charge some Zen and grab it on a whim?

Aadi - Lost City

Peritia - Lost City wrote: »

ii) Add an additional sparkle effect, or something and rename DQ horses which existed prior to their addition in the boutique. This keeps the prestige of owning a DQ version.

I really like this idea. ;x

Centetric - Lost City

i got a violet lightning and this morning when i saw this i was soooooooooo mad. i spent a month collecting those DQ orders b:cry .

they should add special effects to the dq ones like posted prior before my post.

this is insane to me b:cry b:angry

Mantas - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because now they cannot rip off other players by selling it at 20million.....

if players wanna pay for it 20 mil then its worth it. Why no1 gonna buy a panther for 20mil? cuz its common mount. Until some1 is willing to pay the price, trade is fair.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Peritia - Lost City wrote: »

I have a guildie who worked her butt off to get her Silvermane. She'd only had it a few weeks, but its rarity and the looks people would give it acted as a testament to her efforts.

Then... Boom. Any shmuck can get them for 20G, any time they want. My heart broke when I saw their addition, as I am aware of how many hours many horse owners put into the game to get them.

I feel for your friend, I really do... but that's kind of an extreme reaction.

Once you strip this of silly discussions of "status," you realize how little it really matters. Yeah, things are more common and less valuable - so what? These things happen. I have a spurred panther, a snow cub, a sika deer, and a crimson leaper. The first three's values have just been reduced, but I don't care. I'm happy for the people who can now have mounts!

And what if they put Crimson Leapers in there for 5g? It'd be a fair price for such a slow mount, right? Then what about the people who bought them for 2.49mil from the pet manager? Actually I bought mine from the AH for 1.2mil, but my point stants... it may be frustrating for a moment, but just be happy that more people share your taste, and leave it at that. It's just a game.

missrumba1

Here is a link to a Dragon Quest Guide that shows how much in game coins it costs to do a dragon quest as opposed to NPC'ing dq drops http://vanaheim.the-aria.com/pw/dragon-quest/ . I had so far 48 copper and 11 silver orders. Since i was using the dq drops for my dream of owning a SilverMane I was always poor and often had to top up game coinage by selling real life money .
So what a slap in the face this has been to discover that the very mount I had sacrificed much game and RL money for , can now just be bought for 20 bucks... much MUCH less than what I have already laid out for my dream of having a pretty horse.

I wonder how much longer some of the players on here defending this action (of sticking a rare mount into the cash shop) can continue with rose coloured glasses on, before they too receive a ***** slap for something they had their heart set on. Meanwhile PWE continues to have their forum officials 'beat round the bush' and smokescreen when attempting to post regarding this action along with many others in the past. I have come to the conclusion.. rather, woken up to... the fact that that PWE is pushing away its higher levels, the loyal ones who have been here the longest, to make room for a generation that doesnt remember what it used to be like at the start, before the game had their money grubbing cash shop sales every week, so it will be easier for them to continue on with it with a little less noise from a community that started with it like this.

So where does this leave me? and countless others that were half way or more/less to owning this dam horse? The DQ Orders are worthless now, even for the molds, as we all well know about the BH quests and the flood of molds that have resulted. Do I continue to do it the hard/honest way and get the rest of my Orders (whilst remaining poor and topping up with Gold) or do I cut my losses and just buy the horse now?
Someone asked me shortly after maintenance finished if I was going to get the SliverMane from the Cash Shop .. you can imagine what my response was...

The very thought of it now makes me feel sick...

Solandri - Heavens Tear

If you climb the Washington Monument in Washington DC, you'll find that the tip of the pyramid on top is made of almost 3 kg of solid aluminum. Why aluminum? It's a nondescript metal which we throw away in the garbage by the millions every day in the form of cans.

At the time the monument was built, it was one of the rarest metals known to man. Lightweight, yet strong and durable. Its method of manufacture represented cutting-edge science and engineering. So rare and exotic was the metal that the 100 ounce block atop the monument was, at the time, the biggest solid chunk of aluminum that existed in the world. The builders of the monument chose it as the perfect symbol for the country - lighter yet stronger than countries before it through progress in scientific and engineering advancements.

Two years later, a process was invented which could be used to produce tons of aluminum relatively cheaply. The chunk atop the monument became practically worthless.

Should the new method of manufacturing aluminum have been outlawed because it devalued the aluminum currently held by people and nations around the world? Of course not. Things change. The world moves on. This change sucks for few hundred people who obtained the horses when they were rare and difficult to get. But now thousands if not tens of thousands of people who badly wanted to have a horse for a mount will be able to get one.

Is your desire to keep an item rare really that much more important than their desire to have a horse mount? I agree it could have been handled better (maybe put the regular white horse in the CS, leaving the glowy white horse as a DQ reward). But what's done is done. Given a choice between keeping something exclusive for a few people or letting the masses have it, I have to vote on the side of the masses.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you climb the Washington Monument in Washington DC, you'll find that the tip of the pyramid on top is made of almost 3 kg of solid aluminum. Why aluminum? It's a nondescript metal which we throw away in the garbage by the millions every day in the form of cans.

At the time the monument was built, it was one of the rarest metals known to man. Lightweight, yet strong and durable. Its method of manufacture represented cutting-edge science and engineering. So rare and exotic was the metal that the 100 ounce block atop the monument was, at the time, the biggest solid chunk of aluminum that existed in the world. The builders of the monument chose it as the perfect symbol for the country - lighter yet stronger than countries before it through progress in scientific and engineering advancements.

Two years later, a process was invented which could be used to produce tons of aluminum relatively cheaply. The chunk atop the monument became practically worthless.

Should the new method of manufacturing aluminum have been outlawed because it devalued the aluminum currently held by people and nations around the world? Of course not. Things change. The world moves on. This change sucks for few hundred people who obtained the horses when they were rare and difficult to get. But now thousands if not tens of thousands of people who badly wanted to have a horse for a mount will be able to get one.

Is your desire to keep an item rare really that much more important than their desire to have a horse mount? I agree it could have been handled better (maybe put the regular white horse in the CS, leaving the glowy white horse as a DQ reward). But what's done is done. Given a choice between keeping something exclusive for a few people or letting the masses have it, I have to vote on the side of the masses.

You are a genius, but there are 30 some pages of greedy people throughout the other thread that was already in place. They'd rather it be exclusive for them only. After all we are in a spoiled jealous world. I don't want you to have what I have cause then what I have wont' be just mine it will be yours too. How dare you have what I have... it should be all mine.

Look at it this way. If you had the ONLY house in your city. And you held capital on it, you would sell for millions, you have the only one. But some rich house developer comes by and builds 100 houses just like yours. Now suddenly your house is worth less, but you built it yourself so you are proud of it. Suddenly, are you angry and envious of the 100 other people who have a house like yours? As he says... change happens in life, shouldn't expect anything different in a game. Change needs to happen in both for it to go on and function normally.

Kephras - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And what if they put Crimson Leapers in there for 5g? It'd be a fair price for such a slow mount, right?

The actual pricing might be a matter of contention, but the pet-manager horses would've been a fairer choice, if not necessarily the best for PWI's pocketbook. I can well imagine that a lot of folks went and got prepaid cards or charged Zen directly, upon seeing that they could snag these mounts without the monumental effort needed in-game to obtain.

And that's really the crux of it: effort. Whether it's you doing the quests yourself or whether you bought the orders - or the horse! - someone had to put forth effort to bring another of these horses into PWI. It was, until this update, the game's way of saying "Here, you worked really hard! Have something special! You earned it!" The decision to put these rare and special rewards in the boutique cheapens and undermines the efforts of anyone who actually worked for them.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

If the dq mounts and orders were UNTRADEABLE to begin with then they might deserve their "status" everyone keeps going on about and what devs did would have been a horrible thing,but they weren't so no it isn't important,theres worse things they can stick into the boutique.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If the dq mounts and orders were UNTRADEABLE to begin with then they might deserve their "status" everyone keeps going on about and what devs did would have been a horrible thing,but they weren't so no it isn't important,theres worse things they can stick into the boutique.

And that is my point, very few people actually did and completed the quest the way it was designed. They let others do the work and bought their mount. Yes, I said BOUGHT their mount. Gee.. that kinda sounds like what ppl are doing in the cash shop; buying their mount?

Kephras - Heavens Tear

Bratfury, that premise is fatally flawed.
As in my initial posts, I concede that people buy orders, or the mounts directly. And if you spent several millions to prance laps around Archosaur without ever lifting a finger to DQ, I really don't have any sympathy in that regard.
The flaw is, someone did have to do those DQs. Someone had to farm the mobs, fly all over the map, complete the quests, and earn the orders.
If they chose to sell those orders, well, that's really their business. But the point is,
these mounts can only be obtained from the DQ-NPCs. Regardless of whether the horse's current owner did the work themselves, or bought from someone who did, the input of raw, hard work and effort is still there.

Or at least - it was.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

I have not played in the past two months but i am both angry and sad that these two horses are now part of the cash shop.

Back at xmas time I splurged for myself, I despoited 5 times nearly what they cost now to pay for all the orders. I was proud of my horse, beautiful and not something everyone had, a perfect gift for myself and i didnt regret having spent so much.. until i come here tonight and saw the ad with them in it in the anouncements. I was going to log in to chat with friends but i cant even make myself do that. it even makes me want to quit Jade just because it is the same company.
I am very disapointed in this choice, just as i was with the adding of the DP bikini. a reskined horse that glows maybe.. a red one or blue or black.. or any other color but the ones aquired in game with much dedication (either in time or money)

The damage is done, there is no going back.. i am just sad
b:sad

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The actual pricing might be a matter of contention, but the pet-manager horses would've been a fairer choice, if not necessarily the best for PWI's pocketbook. I can well imagine that a lot of folks went and got prepaid cards or charged Zen directly, upon seeing that they could snag these mounts without the monumental effort needed in-game to obtain.

And that's really the crux of it: effort. Whether it's you doing the quests yourself or whether you bought the orders - or the horse! - someone had to put forth effort to bring another of these horses into PWI. It was, until this update, the game's way of saying "Here, you worked really hard! Have something special! You earned it!" The decision to put these rare and special rewards in the boutique cheapens and undermines the efforts of anyone who actually worked for them.

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bratfury, that premise is fatally flawed.
As in my initial posts, I concede that people buy orders, or the mounts directly. And if you spent several millions to prance laps around Archosaur without ever lifting a finger to DQ, I really don't have any sympathy in that regard.
The flaw is, someone did have to do those DQs. Someone had to farm the mobs, fly all over the map, complete the quests, and earn the orders.
If they chose to sell those orders, well, that's really their business. But the point is,
these mounts can only be obtained from the DQ-NPCs. Regardless of whether the horse's current owner did the work themselves, or bought from someone who did, the input of raw, hard work and effort is still there.

Or at least - it was.

You do realize, of course, that you're making an argument against ALL boutique use? The very purpose of the boutique is to make things easier for people to get, either by paying PWI directly for them, or by supporting people who do through the gold system. Players who use the boutique have access to all sorts of things that others do not. You could call it unfair, or you could call it par for the course with a F2P MMO... but either way, it's a necessary evil to keep PWI afloat as a company, because they don't charge us to play.

That being said, PWI's decisions... and those of every such MMO, for that matter... on what to release can't be made lightly. But you can't throw out every release idea because you're afraid of devaluing an item. You can't take a single step in such a complex virtual economy without stepping on something which would change in value because of it. But you can't not move at all, either, so you just have to accept that the values of some things will change.

Would I be a little frustrated if this happened to me? Yeah, I'd probably curse my rotten luck. But then I'd move on and just be happy that so many others share my taste in mounts. Whether you spent weeks gathering dragon orders or just a few days grinding for 2 million coins... or spent $20 of real money for that matter... in the end, it really is just pixels on a screen. And pixels only have what value we ourselves give them.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bratfury, that premise is fatally flawed.
As in my initial posts, I concede that people buy orders, or the mounts directly. And if you spent several millions to prance laps around Archosaur without ever lifting a finger to DQ, I really don't have any sympathy in that regard.
The flaw is, someone did have to do those DQs. Someone had to farm the mobs, fly all over the map, complete the quests, and earn the orders.
If they chose to sell those orders, well, that's really their business. But the point is,
these mounts can only be obtained from the DQ-NPCs. Regardless of whether the horse's current owner did the work themselves, or bought from someone who did, the input of raw, hard work and effort is still there.

Or at least - it was.

Conceding that dragon orders were sold and traded shoots a big hole in your argument. If someone can take their hard work and effort in-game to obtain coin and trade it to get the mount, why can't someone take their hard work and effort out-of-game to obtain $$ and trade it for gold to get the mount?

What's the difference? That one set of effort happened in the game while another happened outside the game? While that may be valid distinction in a game with a monthly fee, a free to play (or pay to play) game like this acknowledges up-front that RL money can be exchanged for cash and items in-game.

If PWI had made clear that "this item will never be obtainable using gold or coin", then I could see your argument holding. But AFAIK they have never made that statement about any item.

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear

Almost finished dumping all the Dragon Orders I had Quested for to get the Silvermane. I am sure glad I never got to the 50th Silver Order or I would be even more disappointed in PWI than I am now. And yes I have so much coin now I could buy 3 Silvermanes, but what would be the point.

As far as I am concerned the damage is done and cannot be reversed. DQ is ruined and yes PWI made a quite a few bucks from the mounts judging from the number of them I see prancing around. But I think long term it will hurt PWI more than it helped.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Golden lion is next.

Alizeee - Heavens Tear

I can understand people who worked hard on DQ's being a bit upset, but they would have been happy to have the option before collecting all the silver orders themselves. So it isn't really fair to be mad. Most people don't even do DQ's anyways and it's a much nicer affordable option to be able to get the horses for 20 gold. I agree too rarity is overrated, it's better to have the item you want and if it is popular- so be it. I know some are po'd a bit- but for every one of them, there are many many more who are very happy now. Been noticing, far too many players here will complain about anything. b:chuckle

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Almost finished dumping all the Dragon Orders I had Quested for to get the Silvermane. I am sure glad I never got to the 50th Silver Order or I would be even more disappointed in PWI than I am now. And yes I have so much coin now I could buy 3 Silvermanes, but what would be the point.

As far as I am concerned the damage is done and cannot be reversed. DQ is ruined and yes PWI made a quite a few bucks from the mounts judging from the number of them I see prancing around. But I think long term it will hurt PWI more than it helped.

I hope you have noticed that the high level magic rings can only be obtained with DQ orders and you at least saved your silver ones.....

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I hope you have noticed that the high level magic rings can only be obtained with DQ orders and you at least saved your silver ones.....

I have no faith in the stability of anything long term in this game anymore. Besides I could probably more easily invest the coin make more and buy those rings when I need them. Holding on long term to so much value in something illiquid like DOs that can be devalued at any time is not something I will do again.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

these mounts can only be obtained from the DQ-NPCs. Regardless of whether the horse's current owner did the work themselves,

.

Yes but its the mounts current owners who are complaining, and unless they did all the DQ's themself then their complaining is flawed.

The mounts and DQ orders SHOULD have been untradable and if not then the spurred pre-req level to use them should have been 100.. then atleast they are a status symbol since the levels to use one have been earned ( ie like TT90 armour ) and not just bought of the back of others work

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Well what to say, thank you people, you made my day. I did collect DQ Mats since i was lvl30 to get Silver Mane....and i spent millions to get silver dragons and copper orders as well! Weeks of work! Month of grinding! I spent like 100$ to get a rare pet. Whats so wrong to try to be unique? For me its more worth then 15mil or any price you can offer to me. cause i spent days to do DQ, to get mats. to grind nonstop, to buy at AH the orders! Though it was just a horse but i wanted it...to stand out of mass a bit and be different. Finaly, after freaking 40lvls i made it! i lent even cash to get it! AND TWO DAYS AFTER i see it in boutique and ppl selling it for 3mil! NEVER EVER AGAIN! You made my day ppl--- now i dont even want to play anymore cause my hard work feels like wasted!

Thank you, never gonna pay for this game anymore!

Edit: btw its my first complain EVER since i got here! i had fun so far, till i saw this s****. So dont say, i have no right to complain or i would complain about ANYTHING

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

[sarcasm] So can I now crib here about my $30 raptor now only being worth $15? [/sarcasm]

Though I so agree $20 seems a tad low for something which did take a lot more effort than raising 4mil coin in game (I'm assuming 200k per gold from now on b:chuckle).