Rising Gold Prices
Comments
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In order for this to work, 1 Guardian Angel(GA) has to be worth more than 100k coins.For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.
The secondary purpose of Jolly Old Jones, other than providing you guys with items, is to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy, and Gold prices re-stabilized at a lower price after Jolly Old Jones was removed from the game.
Removing 100k coins in exchange of strong consumables is a very good idea. I remember other games where permanent NPC buffer were selling timed buffs for donation (gears/money items/coins). This does indeed draw the coins away from the economy and prevent enormous inflations.
The only issue in this event, is the alternative of 1 GA being 100k is too much for the current economy of our server. Using 1 GA does not draw significant coins away ( Aution House tax of 2% can almost be ignored ).0 -
The secondary purpose of Jolly Old Jones, other than providing you guys with items, is to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy, and Gold prices re-stabilized at a lower price after Jolly Old Jones was removed from the game.
With all due respect, the notion that "we are trying to lower gold prices" is nothing but hipocracy. Gold prices, once close to 100k per at one point, has now been fixed at a constant 200k per with the changes to the Cube. Money will no longer be drained out of the system; rather, the reverse will happen. Might as well just put in a cash shop item that costs 5 gold and NPCs for 1 mil coins. Gold that coin-needing cash shoppers once put into the auction house will instead be used on perfect hammers.
Even considering the Jolly Old Jones event itself. One gold can buy three Guardian Angels. Jolly Old Jones takes either one Guardian Angel or 100k. Even with gold prices being at 200k per, a person wanting to make good use of this event would smartly instead use that 100k to buy gold. Rather than spending 200k directly for two Small Spring Packs/Huge Rainbow Eggs, the smart person would buy one gold from the auction house and instead get three reward items. This would continue to be the preferred method until the gold prices have risen up to 300k per.
In the short run, gold prices may as well spike up to 300k per. In the long run, that price will fall to slightly under 200k. Indeed, gold prices will be "stabilized", but in a negative way. Ideally, a gaming company's top priority should be securing the faith, trust and interest of its gamers to ensure a loyal player base and thus ensure profit in the long run. While the adding of new content will do that, such above "justification" of the recent money-making-centric "sales" is leaving a black mark on the company's reputation.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »The box gives you 1m coin. If the gold is less than 196k it is ALWAYS profitable to buy it driving price up and injecting another 1m coin into the system out of nowhere. If gold is less than that many more will start doing cube until the price of gold has reached 196k. Don't ever expect to see gold less than 196k in the future.
Enjoy 800K gold charms.
Asterelle I believe your logic is flawed in one major way. There are costs for going into the cube - Mirages, Robber/Bully Cards, Try Your Luck Rooms, etc. It is quite expensive to cube and even with a box and a hammer u buy at 600k, 400k would probably barely make up the costs of how much you paid to get through the cube.0 -
Maybe even the return of the Forest Ruins event.Drazo - Dreamweaver wrote: »He's most likely talking about the upcoming expansion this autumn. I'm half thinking one or more of the following: housing, new races/classes, new catshop system/rules, restoration of the arena and/or monthly race or something unimaginable/unguessable....like the genies.0 -
UsesPets - Heavens Tear wrote: »Asterelle I believe your logic is flawed in one major way. There are costs for going into the cube - Mirages, Robber/Bully Cards, Try Your Luck Rooms, etc. It is quite expensive to cube and even with a box and a hammer u buy at 600k, 400k would probably barely make up the costs of how much you paid to get through the cube.
the logic isnt flawed. would you rather spend all the money u used to cube and end complete with no coins or try to gain back at least 400k of what you spent. it makes perfect sense. assuming u get great luck first run through, u buy 1 bully, 1 robber, 2 try luck rooms and perfect hammer. 1mil will cover the hammer, both cards and at least 1 luck room.
* edit that will definitely make the price of hammers go up. and on HL people are already selling hammers at 800k+0 -
Claiming these attempts are trying to FIX the economy is quite a rude lie.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »Claiming these attempts are trying to FIX the economy is quite a rude lie.
I agree. the only true way to fix the economy is to set a max at gold sale at this point. ending a sale isnt gonna bring prices down that much. like Starr previously state: gold has been high ever since the first jolly jones event.
not only has jolly jones screwed the economy but those damn oracles screwed the lvling on Dream and HL. we saw lvl 9x waayyyy too fast and our servers didnt even get to experience that week long 1.5x exp event from myspace0 -
its called appeasement to the masses, keep your player base feeling there is hope.Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »Claiming these attempts are trying to FIX the economy is quite a rude lie.
and it doenst help half your 9x bot EMP :P0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »its called appeasement to the masses, keep your player base feeling there is hope.
and it doenst help half your 9x bot EMP :P
LMAO yes tear. there are tons of vids of botters on HL. i guess the formula is something like this:
1-40 quests will do, 40-60 oracles, 60-75ish zhenning and 75+ bot ur **** off until u get caught. take a 3 day break/ban and repeat lmao0 -
It's not smart on part of PWI to not set a gold cap. They would like to believe that high gold prices would drive the previously non-paying population to pay, but by experience from working on another ftp game, this simply does not happen. Those who are willing to pay will pay, those who aren't won't pay no matter what. The kind of people willing to sell gold in AH will be selling anyway if it's capped at 150k each, in order to get coins to buy useful items in game. The only difference is they will then be buying even more zhen, as each gold don't have as much buying power as previously.b:chuckle0
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Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »Claiming these attempts are trying to FIX the economy is quite a rude lie.
If by economy, he means the prices people spend for things in-game (like materials), then I think he is correct.
If by economy, he means the gold exchange, then I may agree with you.
P.S. Nice signature, Lady Aesthor.0 -
Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »It's not smart on part of PWI to not set a gold cap. They would like to believe that high gold prices would drive the previously non-paying population to pay, but by experience from working on another ftp game, this simply does not happen. Those who are willing to pay will pay, those who aren't won't pay no matter what. The kind of people willing to sell gold in AH will be selling anyway if it's capped at 150k each, in order to get coins to buy useful items in game. The only difference is they will then be buying even more zhen, as each gold don't have as much buying power as previously.b:chuckle
my point exactly. " The only difference is they will then be buying even more zhen, as each gold don't have as much buying power as previously" by setting a AH cap gold sales will actually go up based on ur theory. so how would that not benefit them as well as players. more zen being bought, affordable for non CSers0 -
Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »If by economy, he means the prices people spend for things in-game (like materials), then I think he is correct.
If by economy, he means the gold exchange, then I may agree with you.
P.S. Nice signature, Lady Aesthor.
You are correct; I wasn't very specific. I meant the economy as the gold:coin ratio, which is what the OP is claiming to be trying to balance.
I just think it's adding insult to injury to make such a claim.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Don't you (PWI Staff) also think that the rl economy has a part to play in the gold prices? I understand what you are saying with the draining, but a part of it has to be that people don't have the rl money to sink into the gold market.Spoons you will forever be missed in this community0
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The reason why the price for Gold has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.
The secondary purpose of Jolly Old Jones, other than providing you guys with items, is to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy, and Gold prices re-stabilized at a lower price after Jolly Old Jones was removed from the game.
Currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game right now.
agreed that it has nothing to do with gear shattering system.
hate to call you a liar but harshlands was 60k gold the day before your last jolly old jones event. since then it has never dropped below 140k.
how can you possibly sit there and say gold prices will go lower when you fixed a low point for gold prices at ~200k on every server. cube boxes will ensure that no server has any gold prices that ever drop much below 200k. 5 gold is worth 1m to anyone who does cube so any cheaper gold will be bought up by them.
high gold prices=more money for PWI. the higher they go the happier you are. dont deny it. its simple economics and i cant blame you for wanting to make more money just dont try to justify it with false claims.Staring at the wall is much more rewarding than playing PW.0 -
Removed for repetition0
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EmP - Harshlands wrote: »the logic isnt flawed. would you rather spend all the money u used to cube and end complete with no coins or try to gain back at least 400k of what you spent. it makes perfect sense. assuming u get great luck first run through, u buy 1 bully, 1 robber, 2 try luck rooms and perfect hammer. 1mil will cover the hammer, both cards and at least 1 luck room.
* edit that will definitely make the price of hammers go up. and on HL people are already selling hammers at 800k+
Hammer prices may rise but not to the point of 196k per gold BECAUSE of these other costs. With a hammer price of 600-700k, cube costs will probably just about be covered.0 -
I don't think a gold price cap will do any good in the long run. The issue is the release of all these "new" items for limited times trying to get people to spend money now and spend money fast. The GMs are just trying to make a false justification so they seem like the "good guys" here, but in the end they just want more money.
To be honest it is a F2P game and they do need to generate revenue else none of us can play, so I understand their needs. However I often feel these games go too far and get greedy.
How the PW economy will work will be like any other economy. The market and growth will only be able to handle what it can bare. If PWI continues to release new items and new sales events the demand for gold will continue to go up. People always want the newest items and when things are on sales they feel that they can get older items cheaper. This is true for the Cash Shopper, but not necessarily for the non-CS.
Because the demand for gold raises people will be more willing to pay a higher price for the gold because there is a limited quantity out there (There is only as much gold as people are willing to pay for in RL money.) While this probably remains a fair constant over infinite time it does spike during sales. In the real world this would normally mean that since the demand is high and supply is high that the price would go down some and level out. This is not how it works in a virtual world though. People who CS buy extra gold so they can take advantage of the high demand and are not willing to lower their prices. Sure a few might, but the overall majority see it as a means to a profit. They control the trickle of which it flows unlike a real world economy. So what happens? The demand remains high, but the supply, because it is being released in accordance with the sellers restraints, stays the same. Hence price rises.
How can this be fixed? Well stop adding all these new cash shop requirements to play. I.e new needs for GAs and Iron Hammers. Fix Blue Bubble and change the tick rate on MP charms so it isn't 100% necessary to have one to play. Don't add in a system that will require people to need even more in game cash to make repairs. They'll just up the gold prices to compensate. Slow the release of new CS items like mounts, clothes, slow the sales so it's not one or even six a week. People will hold onto their gold because they will need to wait to get something they want. The demand for gold on a daily basis will dwindle and as the demand lowers gold sellers will be forced to sell lower. When the occasional sale does happen (say once a month) then the price will jump a bit, but then drop back down. By having a constant stream of sales every week and releases you create a "kid in a candy store" effect globally where there are enough people wanting something released to keep the demand for gold high.
Understandably this is good for PWI. It means more people buying zhen and their profits increase. For the game though it's bad. Please don't try and justify the economy away like Alan Greenspan. Didn't quite work out the he thought either.0 -
UsesPets - Heavens Tear wrote: »Hammer prices may rise but not to the point of 196k per gold BECAUSE of these other costs. With a hammer price of 600-700k, cube costs will probably just about be covered.
Previously, mainly only rich people cubed because of its high cost. Now that some of that cost is recovered, even more people will cube. Resulting in more hammer sales. It is almost self-fulfilling cycle, only depends on there being people selling gold in the first place. And that's more competition for auction-house gold buyers who may be buying gold from the auction house on a regular basis for things like charms, dolls and arcane pet books. Gold prices will rise due to the higher demand and will only drop if individuals decide to dump in large amounts of real money in an attempt at lowering gold prices. In either case, PWE wins and the ordinary players lose.
The only good thing we can hope that will come out of this is the GMs learn from their mistakes (which caused the large-scale community backlash) and refocus on improving the gaming experience to regain the loyalty of their player base. Yes, it is true that GMs do not have control over new content; such is in the realm of the developers. The GMs, however, do have control over aspects of the server itself such as the cash shop items as well as initiating server-wide events. They also have the responsibility of addressing the concerns of the players and relaying such messages to the developers in a timely and consequential manner and keeping the player base well informed within reason (i.e. notifying the community that bugs, such as Flesh Ream and the cat shop memory leak, has been reported/verified and that the GMs are trying to contact the developers concerning such bugs as opposed to silence/ignorance of the issue).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Doesn't the AH remove 10% of the gold as a 'charge' when you sell it? (iirc...) If that's the case, you'd need to sell .9 gold at 220k to get 1M coins for 5 gold. And the buyer has to pay a 5% tax, or 231k ish? Maybe my math is wrong, I'm tired, but I think people are being too optimistic here.
I would agree with Xarfox if they hadn't put a floor on gold prices. With that system in place, I have hard time believing the post is anything but a bald-faced lie.
Take that out, and I could easily deal with the rest. Since it won't be taken out, I'll probably wait a couple weeks, but I'm pretty sure PWI just became P2P, and $12.99 won't get you ANYWHERE in this expensive cash shop.
I know where 12.99 could be better spent.0 -
No. It's a 2% fee for listing. Someone pays 1.02 gold to list 1 gold at say 150k, and someone else then pays 153k to buy it. So a 1 gold for 150k transaction between players removes 2 silver and 3000 coin. The AH removes a chunk as well but I don't know that percent offhand, think it's smaller than 10 though.0
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A floor on gold prices? Isn't that like an insanely low amount? We'd never end up hitting it... XD
Anyway, I support the gold price cap. **** free-market principle, it's a game. -_- As long as PWI's making just as much money off of it, why can't we just let everyone have easier access to gold?
(Cue QQing from high levels who support the high gold prices only because it lets them get their warsoul weapon 0.00001 seconds faster -_-)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Thank you, all i have been waiting for is a official statement from a gm. I am content now.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dalamaar: Mizorie you have no soul.0 -
I love you guys blame the GMs for gold prices when WE CONTROL IT gold will only go as high as ppl r willing to pay so its this simple if u want gold to be 100k only buy gold for 100k and spread the word and u know what things might get better
Also i was thinking about leaving but at least ik the GMs r trying something so i think ill stay maybe ill even send cookies b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
We're not blaming the GMs, but we do recognize that they have some influence over this supply-and-demand system and we've collectively decided it favors the supply side far too much. :P That's all.Crazydan - Heavens Tear wrote: »I love you guys blame the GMs for gold prices when WE CONTROL IT gold will only go as high as ppl r willing to pay so its this simple if u want gold to be 100k only buy gold for 100k and spread the word and u know what things might get better
And it's hard to say "we're going to boycott gold until it's 100k" when gold is becoming increasingly necessary for a functional game experience... which is something thing we take issue with the staff on, particularly the dev staff.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
In order to get a solid picture of how everything is going we'll need to give this patch a while to settle in. As in any situation, new functions that affect items in the game will obviously become horribly inflated initially because of people who are, yes I'm saying it, trying to take advantage of the rush. We welcome your feedback and we appreciate you taking the time to provide it, the waiting game must continue for a while to form an accurate picture of the situation. During this time, any constructive feedback is welcomed.
Click here to send a ticket to Customer Support * tumblr
* twitter.com/battleimmortals * FB * BoI MySpace * Blog0 -
Can everyone give Xarfox, Spoon and the others a round of allause (i know i spelled that wrong so dont remind me) They are working soo hard to keep us informed and calm. Everyone should show them love. *Kisses*"Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
-Saitada
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thankies Crystalynnex0 -
You get boxes from rebirth delta as well. I got 3 from one run earlier. The gold demand will be gigantic and gold prices under 196k are just unrealistic.0
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My only criticism is, please please don't stop here. Offer more ZEN bonuses and LESS sales/events. If that doesn't work, consider a cap on gold, or any other incentive you can think of to pry the gold system from the hands of the supply-side. We just need it to be fair again. -_- Don't vanish a week from now saying "ok event's over lolz, thank us nao."eatwithspoons wrote: »In order to get a solid picture of how everything is going we'll need to give this patch a while to settle in. As in any situation, new functions that affect items in the game will obviously become horribly inflated initially because of people who are, yes I'm saying it, trying to take advantage of the rush. We welcome your feedback and we appreciate you taking the time to provide it, the waiting game must continue for a while to form an accurate picture of the situation. During this time, any constructive feedback is welcomed.
I'll second that. *hats off* :PTigriss - Heavens Tear wrote: »Can everyone give Xarfox, Spoon and the others a round of allause (i know i spelled that wrong so dont remind me) They are working soo hard to keep us informed and calm. Everyone should show them love. *Kisses*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »In order to get a solid picture of how everything is going we'll need to give this patch a while to settle in. As in any situation, new functions that affect items in the game will obviously become horribly inflated initially because of people who are, yes I'm saying it, trying to take advantage of the rush. We welcome your feedback and we appreciate you taking the time to provide it, the waiting game must continue for a while to form an accurate picture of the situation. During this time, any constructive feedback is welcomed.
you should have learned after the 1st oracle event when it completely destroyed HL economy.Staring at the wall is much more rewarding than playing PW.0
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