Rising Gold Prices
Comments
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Heh. You can manipulate the market both ways, both to increase or to lower the price of gold. I was doing this during the JJ event, but I was doing it to lower the price of gold. If I saw a bunch of small (1-4 gold) high-priced bids at the top of the buy list, I bought them out so the top bid was much lower. Then I'd place my (largish) buy bid for gold at the lower price.vampirenite wrote: »Don't you know there are many people making tons of coin by playing the market b:laugh.
The economy is small enough that someone with enough coin and gold can manipulate the prices up and down to a degree. The buy Gold when the price is low then sell it when it is high. They buy up all the straggler small bids in between to drive the prices up or down.
And when buying gold outright (not placing bids), I'd leave some of the lower priced gold sell orders to encourage new sellers to underprice them.
IMHO it's not profitable enough to make money this way. The exchange fee eats 4.04% for each round-trip transaction (coin->gold->coin). So if you bought gold at 180k, you'd have to sell it at 187.27k just to break even. That's pretty close to the maximum day-to-day fluctuation I saw during the event. And even when it exceeded that, you'd be making a measly 1%-3%.
You are much better off just using the gold to buy stuff from the cash shop, and cat shopping it. Most cat shops I see mark those items up 10%-20%. Easily more than you'd make by manipulating the gold market. And if there's a sale, you can easily make 30%-50%. By my calculations, the JJ event was like a 35%-60% markup.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »b:surrender
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You had a period on World Chat? b:shocked0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »IMHO it's not profitable enough to make money this way. The exchange fee eats 4.04% for each round-trip transaction (coin->gold->coin). So if you bought gold at 180k, you'd have to sell it at 187.27k just to break even. That's pretty close to the maximum day-to-day fluctuation I saw during the event. And even when it exceeded that, you'd be making a measly 1%-3%.
On HT due to the large population the market is larger and harder to manipulate. On the PvP and the newer servers the smaller population and coin/Gold in circulation makes the fluctuation and the B/S spreads larger, especially during events and during the times that most people are asleep.
If you time the spread to net at least 10K per Gold and you are playing with a Bank Balance of say 100G you could clear 1 mil a day quite easily.0 -
vampirenite wrote: »If you time the spread to net at least 10K per Gold and you are playing with a Bank Balance of say 100G you could clear 1 mil a day quite easily.
If gold is priced at 200k like it is on most of the newer servers, and you have 100G, that's equivalent to 20 mil. Making 1 mil is only a 5% margin. Like I said, I regularly see cat shops marking stuff up from the cash shop by 10%-20%. i.e. With your 100G you could make 2-4 mil. It's more money and a lot less risky.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »If gold is priced at 200k like it is on most of the newer servers, and you have 100G, that's equivalent to 20 mil. Making 1 mil is only a 5% margin. Like I said, I regularly see cat shops marking stuff up from the cash shop by 10%-20%. i.e. With your 100G you could make 2-4 mil. It's more money and a lot less risky.
I do not believe it is less risky because you are assuming that the exchange rate is stable and prices are stable and not subject to random sales by PWI.
Your 10-20% markup in the cash shop is based on a specific exchange rate which could easily switch to a 10-20% markDOWN if exchange rates move the wrong way. In fact I have taken advantage of this many times when an overnight catshopper doesn't adjust their price when the exchange rate spikes. The other thing is that if you mark up too much it takes a long time to sell anything in a catshop.
On the other hand if you are playing the exchange rate market you tend to be more aware of what the current exchange rate is and are helping it move in the direction you want. But I would add that to make the most money you probably want to do both Catshopping and playing with the exchange rate.
One more thing coin and Gold are 100% liquid. And as they say Cash is King.0 -
Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »You had a period on World Chat? b:shocked
b:shocked
0_o
That could be embarrassing....but me no. But I know a LOT of people who have b:chuckleb:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
That only matters if you use gold as your reference (i.e. you bought gold with $$). If you use coin as your reference, you buy gold with coin at a certain price, then you buy the items from CS, and simply mark them up so you'll end up with 10%-20% more coin than you spent on the gold. If the exchange rate fluctuates up, you're still guaranteed 10%-20% more than you started with. If someone buys you out like you did, all that's happened is you lost an opportunity to make more than 20%.vampirenite wrote: »I do not believe it is less risky because you are assuming that the exchange rate is stable and prices are stable and not subject to random sales by PWI.
Your 10-20% markup in the cash shop is based on a specific exchange rate which could easily switch to a 10-20% markDOWN if exchange rates move the wrong way. In fact I have taken advantage of this many times when an overnight catshopper doesn't adjust their price when the exchange rate spikes.
If the exchange rate fluctuates down, then you could get screwed having to sell at a loss to recover your coin. But the big drops are fairly predictable and easy to avoid - the price of gold goes down when sales end and demand for gold drops. The smaller drops generally mean instead of making 10%-20%, you make 7%-15%. If you're smart, then you're selling sale items, so when the sale ends they'll actually go up in value. That's why cat shopping is more stable - you can set it up so it's virtually impossible to lose money.
We could argue this in circles, with you coming up with scenarios to counter anything I say. Let me put it this way - I've tried it both ways. Cat shopping CS items is much more profitable and stable.0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »The box gives you 1m coin. If the gold is less than 196k it is ALWAYS profitable to buy it driving price up and injecting another 1m coin into the system out of nowhere. If gold is less than that many more will start doing cube until the price of gold has reached 196k. Don't ever expect to see gold less than 196k in the future.
Enjoy 800K gold charms.
this does not drive the price of gold up this raises the value of the chests themselves. gold=100k this has become the standard of the game and what everything else is priced off of. gold hammer=5gold=500k box=1mil=boxprice of 500k.
Anyways i would like to thank the GM for informing us of the fact that they value the nonzen players. I also appricate the fact that even though I wasb:angry about the prices of gold that they actually are keeping tabs and measures to keep the math of this games eccomony in control.
Yes jolly does mess things up as far as gold prices go but as long as they are aware of this fact and has explained the reasons for the repeditive sales it makes me even more impressed with this games management.
I gripe alot when things mess up in game but was unaware of the reasoning behind it and now will become more understanding because we seem to be in very capable hands. Thank you PW.0 -
well, some generous person has bought all the high priced gold and the highest buy price is somewhere around 150k, and i assume it was a GM. Thank you for fixing the outrageous gold prices. I appreciate it.0
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I doubt a GM would be allowed to manipulate the economy like that, especially if it might make PWI lose money. More likely it was a nice rich person giving peeps a break.
Also gold on HT is still around 190k+, and if a GM had done it for one server they surely would have done the others (yes I'm aware different servers have different GMs, but who says a GM can't have an alt? :P )you thilly gooses... feather set is thuper fabulous! -Bowlinbob
Chars:
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Kardie - Dreamweaver wrote: »well, some generous person has bought all the high priced gold and the highest buy price is somewhere around 150k, and i assume it was a GM. Thank you for fixing the outrageous gold prices. I appreciate it.
It's back to 200k. If people can sell their gold for 200k+ quickly, then they're just going to put more in at that price so the price won't dip for long.
Any long term solutions to this problem won't be seen immediately. Just got to give it time.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
tempest-dw.shivtr.com0 -
Why assume the market is controlled by gestures of good-will? It's controlled by supply and demand. Believing in hypothetical rich players who go around deciding what Gold prices should be is like believing in magic fairies who you hope will fix your car, rather than taking it to a mechanic.Qwentomec - Heavens Tear wrote: »I doubt a GM would be allowed to manipulate the economy like that, especially if it might make PWI lose money. More likely it was a nice rich person giving peeps a break.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Why assume the market is controlled by gestures of good-will? It's controlled by supply and demand. Believing in hypothetical rich players who go around deciding what Gold prices should be is like believing in magic fairies who you hope will fix your car, rather than taking it to a mechanic.
Whats wrong with believing in fairy mechanics?
Theres so much you aint seen tsk tsk.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
Goldprices cant drop much below 200k again. Its not the Gms fault its the developers that introduced Chest of fking coins.
As soon as gold drops below lets say 170k everyone can make money from Chest of coins again, ppl just buy gold in AH and get Iron hammer and than the gold prices goes up to 180-200k again.
I have like 40 chest of coins and i don't even do cube and Gv that much <.<
I know ppl with 100s of them. As soon as you can get 5 gold for less than 1 mil ingame you can make money from chests, worse idea ever imo.0 -
That varies by the supply of the chests and what they're being sold for.
If chests are catshoped at 300k, gold can't go for more than 137k.
As the surplus of chests decreases over time (which it will with sales over and less demand for gold), your scenario becomes less and less likely to happen as well. Those chests set a max price on gold, not a minimum.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »That varies by the supply of the chests and what they're being sold for.
If chests are catshoped at 300k, gold can't go for more than 137k.
As the surplus of chests decreases over time (which it will with sales over and less demand for gold), your scenario becomes less and less likely to happen as well. Those chests set a max price on gold, not a minimum.
I don't think you realize how easy 9X gets chests. I get around 3-5 per day often from cube and rebirth. If i can get golds for less than 200k each i will make a profit from them. And that goes for every 9x on the server and every person that do cube. As soon as they find gold below 200k they buy iron hammer and open chest and make money. Its really impossible for gold prices to drop when ppl get so many chest everyday, and 5 golds = 1 mil from chest.0 -
Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »I don't think you realize how easy 9X gets chests. I get around 3-5 per day often from cube and rebirth. If i can get golds for less than 200k each i will make a profit from them. And that goes for every 9x on the server and every person that do cube. As soon as they find gold below 200k they buy iron hammer and open chest and make money. Its really impossible for gold prices to drop when ppl get so many chest everyday, and 5 golds = 1 mil from chest.
How much are BUY orders for gold in your server? (not being sarcastic, I do not have an account on your server to look it up myself)Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
To all the posters who called Xarafox a liar, or believed they were capable of an opinion that was worth a dang when saying gold would stay at 200k range: You are all idiots. Thank you.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
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It went back down to what it was before.
It used to be at like what 120k on Lost City. It went up to around 160k and then they implemented Jolly Jones. They said it was to lower gold prices. After Jolly Jones gold goes around 160k on lost city.
It only went back to pre-jolly jones levels. It didn't really lower.The only way to win is to quit. b:bye0 -
Just stop it. They are not idiots. They had valid arguments that made sense.Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »To all the posters who called Xarafox a liar, or believed they were capable of an opinion that was worth a dang when saying gold would stay at 200k range: You are all idiots. Thank you.
What they got wrong was that they didn't listen to all the people who were in a mad Gold-buying spree because of Jolly Jones, so they mistook the Jolly Jones inflation for coin box inflation.
But that does not mean that coin boxes are not now currently inflating Gold prices. They absolutely are. The only question that remains to be seen is by how much they will do so in the long-term
So, please, keep your "told you so" nonsense to yourself.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Did Xarfox grow bewbs? Or did u make his name sound kinda feminine.Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »To all the posters who called Xarafox a liar, or believed they were capable of an opinion that was worth a dang when saying gold would stay at 200k range: You are all idiots. Thank you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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i'm know a little bit about eco not alot but i will say theirs always 2 sides to the coin. there's more than one way to lower gold prices.
Version A: Sucking coins out of ecomoy w/ consumables. In every economy there is a limit to where people aren't going to pay as much for a product. In this example gold is the product. People aren't going to pay 300k for gold tbh. So they will keep buying gold until it get's to that limit (300k is an example limit). once players are unable to sell their gold at the desirable amount. the price will lower, to suit the demand. This is a very long way to reduce prices, also called supply side economics.
Verison B: everyone likes this version, because they feel they have more money in their pocket to spend. PW could give new quests that give you lots of coin to purchase all the junk we crave. At the same time PW would not introduce new consumable items in the game that would pull money out of it. If pw introduces no new items the demand for gold goes down. However w/ more money in the market inflation is a possiblity.
PW choose version A, which is most safer but takes longer. It may seem like things are worse but give it some time and you'll see gold bottom out.I dont level Slow I just enjoy the game b:surrender0 -
The gold prices are now declining (albeit at a slow and unsteady rate). Let's wait until they settle and then we'll judge if Xarfox was right, ya?Non-mule characters:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]....and Drazomyst.0 -
Bump, bc Xar's post is just hilarious right now.....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Sadpuma - Heavens Tear wrote: »Bump, bc Xar's post is just hilarious right now.....
Yeah very interesting find, i dont understand how pumping 10mil notes and end game gear into the game is part of the "great plan". I do understand they want to sell things, but imagne a lvl 19 player being able to have gear that a lvl 100 has to farm at 0.005 percent drop rate(percent might be a bit off,TT100 scarlet mat) and gold prices have sky rocketed across 500k, I am sure they r monitoring it nicely but they shud realize that a lvl 50-60 players cant afford even angels at that prices leave alone charms.One Wing One Heart
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Well, the 10m note takes two perfect tickets, so it's a rare drop. I don't think you can break even with it.
The other items - they surely are pushing up the price of gold massively - everyone wants in on the act.
But I don't think that people HAVING those items will make a huge difference to the amount of coin entering the game.0 -
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Sadpuma - Heavens Tear wrote: »Bump, bc Xar's post is just hilarious right now.....
so true its depressing.0 -
lol... pots are cheaper by a long shot now. i wonder if i'll see charmless tws0
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Sadpuma - Heavens Tear wrote: »Bump, bc Xar's post is just hilarious right now.....
Quoted for teh truths
b:pleasedThere are three types of people in the world,
Those that can count, and those that can't count.
パロディー b:mischievous0
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