Rising Gold Prices
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I haven't seen the WC's actually, I usually turn it off (though it was on for a couple hours today) because the chat in it boils down to what in my opinion is dumb spam. I also don't see much point in a channel that costs coin or money to use unless there's something important to say in it.
Those people selling all their possessions to make coin to spend in my shop I'm not really worried about, because those same people obviously feel they have the coin to spend if they're willing to unload their other items to get the exp or that expect me to do things like pay for the wines in a BH because I'm a rich veno and they're all poor.
Oh, and oracles add coin to the server not drain it. Each spring pack adds an average 7736 coin in oracles. At 205k gold, the listing fee is 4100 coins, since each GA is .29 gold, 1189 coin is sunk from each pack purchased through a GA. However, since each pack is adding 7736, each pack is actually adding 6547 coin to the server. The only way Jolly is actually removing coin from DW is if atleast 1 in 15.27 packs are being bought with coin rather than GA's. I very much doubt this is the case.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Oh, and oracles add coin to the server not drain it.
Nope. The oracle is used up, consumed. Money drained from the system. Whether it's money spent on gold, then on the oracle, or your catshop got in the system - eventually some money is drained out.
Yes, you're making a profit by skimming, and your personal coin supply goes up. But the total money in the game goes down - and quite quickly, because those '11million for a kirin' guys are burning it en-masse to try and make just-one-more-level.
I don't think the GMs realised quite how much money was tied up in bank accounts, and how much of that would be turned liquid by this sale.
Edit:
I do think some people are buying jolly directly. Plenty of people just buy a pack or two. Heck, I spoke to many who went and bought the rainbow egg!
But it's the people who are selling real-cash who are adding money to the game.
Jolly just creates the demand. The oracles drain it back. Notice that almost EVERY item jolly sells is consumed, eventually. (The rings, theoretically, hang around. But I don't think having some lvl20 req rings in the game is gonna distort the economy much)0 -
Azuresier - Sanctuary wrote: »Many people keep saying that the hammers make it a solid 196k price. I dont know about some of you, but paying 1 mil to make 1 mil....? why not just sell the gold it makes no sense. Why would I use 1 mil in coins to buy...1 mil in coins.
I have done Rebirth gamma only 4 levels and still have 7 to go. I have ~10 of those damn boxes in my bank and with those next 7 levels, I prolly have ~30 of em when I hit 86, unless I feed some genies with xp & keep doing gamma as it is, even if gold is ~250k/each, profitable. Sure, I won`t finish every time, but if I hit double wave, I have made my bronze mp charm back and not really wasted hp one aka I make nice xp, don`t lose money while doing it and have nice chance of making money as coins from bosses is enough to make gamma profitable if you get through DW, let alone those imma shards(after few weeks, too many shards on market atm due JJ).
But when I`m done with gamma, I sell those damn boxes(who`s gonna buy em with current gold prices?) or open them myself to get that space them consume free. If I won`t make profit, it won`t really matter, `cause I just want them out of my overloaded bank. But no, not paying coins for just opening em, gonna wait gold to get back that 196k, which makes me breaking even. And if I buy gold, I`m not selling it under 200k due those boxes in my bank, no one is selling it lower than they can make with just opening the ones sitting in their bank. If those boxes aren`t removed, we won`t be seeing gold prices under 190k. No, the amount of those boxes isn`t shrinking, it`s growing due more players getting used to do gamma and some starting delta, at least that`s the case in Dreamweaver.0 -
Interesting. If your numbers are correct, then it seems your conclusion is also correct.Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Oh, and oracles add coin to the server not drain it. Each spring pack adds an average 7736 coin in oracles. At 205k gold, the listing fee is 4100 coins, since each GA is .29 gold, 1189 coin is sunk from each pack purchased through a GA. However, since each pack is adding 7736, each pack is actually adding 6547 coin to the server. The only way Jolly is actually removing coin from DW is if atleast 1 in 15.27 packs are being bought with coin rather than GA's. I very much doubt this is the case.
A couple of notes, though. First, the Oracles can only return the money back to the server at a fixed rate. The long line-ups are forcing most people to hoard their Oracles for a long time. Thus Jolly Jones would definitely still be a money drain in the short-term at least.
Second, it might be worth wondering how many of the Jolly Jones items are going to be passing through the Auction House, and at what price. However, the 5% fee is still probably not enough to subtract 6547 coins or more.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Azuresier - Sanctuary wrote: »Many people keep saying that the hammers make it a solid 196k price. I dont know about some of you, but paying 1 mil to make 1 mil....? why not just sell the gold it makes no sense. Why would I use 1 mil in coins to buy...1 mil in coins.
Yes, it is not profitable when gold above 194k, gold seller will sell gold instead buying hammer and open the coin box, but when the gold price below 194k, it makes more scene for gold seller with box to buy hammer then sell gold below 196k. for gold seller without any coin box, they should be able to sell hammer 900k each, since players with coins box will make 100k free coins when they buy the hammer and open the box they have. so 180k-200k is a hard bottom for the gold price.0 -
The reason why the price for Gold has shot through the roof, is because of the addition of Jolly Old Jones, not the Gear Shattering system.
For those who are not familiar with Jolly Old Jones, he's an NPC that allows players to trade either Guardian Angels for rewards, or 100k coins.
The secondary purpose of Jolly Old Jones, other than providing you guys with items, is to drain the economy. The last time we had this event, we drained a huge amount of money out of the PWI economy, and Gold prices re-stabilized at a lower price after Jolly Old Jones was removed from the game.
Currently gold prices are inflated, however they should fall back down after this event/sale, perhaps even to a lower benchmark since so much coin is being sunk out of the game right now.
Gold trading is something that we pay a lot of attention to at PWE. We realize that a large number of players get their gold through the auction house, and carefully watch that system with a variety of metrics, statistics, and tools. You can be sure that when you guys are upset about high Gold prices, we become concerned for our players who can't afford to charge their ZEN directly.
We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.
Now finally. There are some monumental updates on the way for PWI. I cannot go into the specifics of what they are, but I can say that upon having the news of these updates fall upon my ears, I was not only shocked beyond belief, but more excited than I've been for any previous content update/expansion.
I don't want to offend anyone, but this is just bulls.
Jolly event is good to take some money out of the economy, but for God's sake, please stop creating other events. Every new event/sale will just inflate more and more gold prices. Who the hell was the one that tought having a sale on battle packs, charms and orbs in the same week will not throw the prices out of the roof?
Then , if u really want to drain the economy, put the Jolly boxes available only via cash. Whoever charged gold and want to sell it to be able to buy jolly boxes will sell asap as low as he can to get those boxes => low gold price. Whoever has coins will not buy gold, rather invest in jolly=> lower gold price.
yeah, so that basically means: they worked their **** off, we need to pay them overtime, so we have to make charging gold very attractive.Hence, event after event -> inflate gold price -> make very attractive for ppl to charge gold-> more cash in PWI pockets to pay the devs.We also realize that lately it seems like it's been nothing but sale after sale. That's simply because the large content update we had today required a lot of work from the development team, and with the upcoming additions of the Bounty Hunter and Warsong City (very soon) it's easy to see how their plate has been full.
That pretty much sums it all.____________
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The only coin used to create the oracles is in the listing fee at the auctioneer to exchange coin to gold (assuming the person didn't pay $$ for gold). Each oracle gives a coin reward.Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »Nope. The oracle is used up, consumed. Money drained from the system. Whether it's money spent on gold, then on the oracle, or your catshop got in the system - eventually some money is drained out.
Money spent on gold, AH, cat shops, or oracles isn't drained. It's transferred from one character to another. Only the fees associated with buying gold (2%), or AH (listing fee + 5%) is drained.
Brael correctly accounted for all of these. Oracle I is 3x8100 coin @ 12%, Oracle 2 is 3x9400 coin @ 10%, Oracle 3 is 2x10k coin @ 10%, total is .12*3*8100 + .1*3*9400 + .1*2*10000 = 7736 average coin added per pack. As he points out, this is more than the listing fee for buying gold with coin, resulting in a net increase in coin from the Jolly Jones event.
That's just money that's transferred from one character to another character. The big money sinks are things where you pay an NPC - skills, crazy stone, repair fees, etc.But the total money in the game goes down - and quite quickly, because those '11million for a kirin' guys are burning it en-masse to try and make just-one-more-level.
Again, selling gold doesn't add money (coin) to the game. All it does is move coin from one character to another, in exchange for this virtual currency we call gold in this game.But it's the people who are selling real-cash who are adding money to the game.
The consumption would be relevant if the Jolly Jones spring packs were created with coin. But the vast majority of it is created with gold, not coin. While it does represent increased $$ revenue for PWI, it isn't having much impact on the amount of coin in the game.Jolly just creates the demand. The oracles drain it back. Notice that almost EVERY item jolly sells is consumed, eventually.
If history repeats itself, long after the event the Oracle 1s will sell for around 100k, which represents 5500 in auction fees. They'll still represent a net increase in the amount of coin. Oracle 3s were selling for over 200k, which would be over 10k in auction fees, and getting into the range where they're a net drain on coin.WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Second, it might be worth wondering how many of the Jolly Jones items are going to be passing through the Auction House, and at what price. However, the 5% fee is still probably not enough to subtract 6547 coins or more.0 -
Just a FYI, the hammer costs 1 Chinese dollar in the Chinese version. One US$ = 6.8 Chinese$(RMB), so for us should be 14 silver... lol.0
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Just a FYI, the hammer costs 1 Chinese dollar in the Chinese version. One US$ = 6.8 Chinese$(RMB), so for us should be 14 silver... lol.
Comparing countries with different currency exchange rates? It would be great if the cost of running a business wasn't so different. You can't run a business in the U.S. on rmb. b:chuckle
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Just a FYI, the hammer costs 1 Chinese dollar in the Chinese version. One US$ = 6.8 Chinese$(RMB), so for us should be 14 silver... lol.
China also has different costs. A PW employee doesn't make as much in CNY as a PWI employee makes in USD. Costs are relative to where the game is based, and their marketing department (or whoever is responsible) would price different versions to their target audience so that items are affordable. For them that's 1 CNY, for us that's 5 USD.Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »If history repeats itself, long after the event the Oracle 1s will sell for around 100k, which represents 5500 in auction fees. They'll still represent a net increase in the amount of coin. Oracle 3s were selling for over 200k, which would be over 10k in auction fees, and getting into the range where they're a net drain on coin.
While that can happen, shards have an effect on the servers coin over time as well. Each of those beautiful shards essentially one less average shard that's bought for gear. Essentially, every beautiful shard is preventing an average from being made, which is 57500 (I think... that's the price for making yourself rather than from the vendor) coin not sunk from the server in the future which means an average of 13,800 coin per pack. Even when Oracles do rise and the AH starts taking more coin from them, not every oracle will be sold in the AH and out of those that are, shards more than offset it. And this is assuming people simply replace averages with beautifuls, not that they would use better. If someone normally used beautiful, each jolly shard is preventing 4 averages from entering the game and removing coin.0 -
If you are willng to hold on to your shards, you can easly make 300-400% profit on them in a couple of weeks.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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Exactly, but that's simply transferring coin from one person to another. It's the fact that those beautiful shards don't require people to buy and combine averages (from npc's) to make them that causes them to add coin to the server after the event ends. How much they add depends on what they replace. If someone uses a beautiful over an average, it's 57500 coin. If someone uses a beautiful over another beautiful it's 230,000. If someone uses flawless it's 920,000 (potentially, I don't think most flawless are made through npc sales anyways though... only supplemented).
You can apply the same logic to food, with people buying food which lets them sell normal dropped potions to npc's (adds coin), and prevents them from needing to buy more potions (removes a coin sink). I don't think it's remotely possibly Jolly is reducing coin on servers unless you consider people who hoard say 500 million and don't spend it as removing, as that still takes it out of circulation for the most part although it still exists.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Exactly, but that's simply transferring coin from one person to another. It's the fact that those beautiful shards don't require people to buy and combine averages (from npc's) to make them that causes them to add coin to the server after the event ends. How much they add depends on what they replace. If someone uses a beautiful over an average, it's 57500 coin. If someone uses a beautiful over another beautiful it's 230,000. If someone uses flawless it's 920,000 (potentially, I don't think most flawless are made through npc sales anyways though... only supplemented).
You can apply the same logic to food, with people buying food which lets them sell normal dropped potions to npc's (adds coin), and prevents them from needing to buy more potions (removes a coin sink). I don't think it's remotely possibly Jolly is reducing coin on servers unless you consider people who hoard say 500 million and don't spend it as removing, as that still takes it out of circulation for the most part although it still exists.
That is correct. If the goal is to keep prices low, it would be far worse to have 500 people with 1million extra coins than to have 1 person with 500million coins. That would promote competition, which would cause prices to go up.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »Comparing countries with different currency exchange rates? It would be great if the cost of running a business wasn't so different. You can't run a business in the U.S. on rmb. b:chuckle
Perhaps replacing you with someone in China, and lower the cost of hammer to 4 gold? b:chuckle0 -
Perhaps replacing you with someone in China, and lower the cost of hammer to 4 gold? b:chuckle
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eatwithspoons wrote: »Trust me, you may not appreciate our customer service department, but we are paid due to the quality of our work.
quality of our work: Would that be the legions of botters you fail to ban (cashshop botters sorry) or the amount of money sapping ideas you can add to the game to inflate gold prices and make it impossible for non cashshoppers to make any impact?
Seriously can you actually give us one good reason how the coin box at the end of the cube or godless valley benefits, all I can see is its going to cause a permanent 200k per 1 gold fix price, and will make people just cashshop a hammer instead of paying the ingame price.0 -
Ascii - Harshlands wrote: »quality of our work: Would that be the legions of botters you fail to ban (cashshop botters sorry) or the amount of money sapping ideas you can add to the game to inflate gold prices and make it impossible for non cashshoppers to make any impact?
Seriously can you actually give us one good reason how the coin box at the end of the cube or godless valley benefits, all I can see is its going to cause a permanent200k per 1 gold fix price, and will make people just cashshop a hammer instead of paying the ingame price.
Unless you have a deep knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors here, I would advise that you don't make unfounded accusations. As we have already stated, we rely on player reports to find people who break the rules, if you see someone who you have previously reported doing something bad again, report them. We do not have the manpower to monitor every single player who's ever been reported b:chuckle
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I have an idea for how to lower gold prices on each server. The idea may not have a massive impact until after Jolly Jones is done, but it should have an impact once the deman for gold stabalizes. The simple part of it is this: Everyone place bids in the auction house to buy gold for 120K.
Gold prices are based upon what people 'think' gold is worth. As a result, when a new person to the gold trading system sees bids to buy gold with prices in the 180k-190k range, they think "oh, that is how much gold costs." As a result, they figure they have to bid higher to get the gold they want. This drives prices up.
Similarly, if gold sellers see bids in that same range, they'll figure that they can take their chances and try and get a bit more for the gold.
Because gold is based solely on the principle of percieved value, the community should be able to slowly 'chip away' at gold prices by driving that perception down. So, here's my idea:
If enough people on a server place bids to buy gold in the 100k-125k range, it will start to change the perception of what gold is worth. Sellers seeing the majority of bids at that range will have preassure on them to lower prices, and (more importantly) new buyers seeing the majority of bids in that range will start to see the value of gold at the lower range. They'll see the 180K seller bids as trying to take advantage of them (rather than being just above normal), and will likely place a lower bid.
Now, here's the catch. Perceptions change slowly. That means that we aren't going to see a huge drop in gold prices anytime soon. But we should, over the course of 1-3 months, see gold slowly drive itself back down to those more reasonable levels.
Unfortunately, while demand is still so high, it is unlikely that we will see movement until after Jolly Jones is done. But once it is done, demand will dry up and gold sellers will be forced to lower prices.
I for one would be more than willing to tie up a couple hundred thousand couns in a bid to see if we can get gold prices lower through this action. The worst case scenario is we lose 2% of the bid price (or you get REALLY lucky one day and get some gold at discount prices). I'm gonna start selling some DQ items to get me the cash for this.
RE: The million coin chest. I agree with both sides of the argument. It definately has an impact on gold prices, but it isn't as big an impact as people think. There is a cost (both in time and coin) in doing the cube or a rebirth. It definatly gives players (high level players with lots of time) a way to make 200K per gold (minus equipment repairs, pot costs, mirage stone costs, etc.), but it doesn't take into account the additional costs associated with failing the cube. Players who just want a quick coin influx from selling gold (and lower level players) will not have access to those chests. As a result, they will still have to make coin the old fashioned auction way.
I say this not to support the cube chests (I think they should be lowered in their pay-out to around 750k coins or make them harder to get), but I say this to encourage people to try my above idea and hopefully drive gold prices down.0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »Unless you have a deep knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors here, I would advise that you don't make unfounded accusations. As we have already stated, we rely on player reports to find people who break the rules, if you see someone who you have previously reported doing something bad again, report them. We do not have the manpower to monitor every single player who's never been reported b:chuckle
b:surrender Sorry for my false accusations then, ill leave you to do what GMs are paid to do, whatever that is o.o0 -
I dont think pple have patience for that ;x i hope jolly ends soonCofari - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have an idea for how to lower gold prices on each server. The idea may not have a massive impact until after Jolly Jones is done, but it should have an impact once the deman for gold stabalizes. The simple part of it is this: Everyone place bids in the auction house to buy gold for 120K.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »I dont think pple have patience for that ;x i hope jolly ends soon
Ends tomorrow I believe.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »Ends tomorrow I believe.
Yep. Tomorrow's (hopefully there is a) maintenance should get rid of him...it's why I'ma finally get my own piece of the pie tonight!
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IF PWI really was worried about gold prices, they would sell the hammer for 2Gold 50 silver ...
Selling a Hammer For 5 gold to open a box with 1million coins it's about the same As adding an NPC in game Wich sells gold for 200k each permanently .
Think about it As long as theres chests with 1million coins wich can be opened by 5gold thats setting the gold price at 200k each and no EVENT ending or starting will change it.
AT THE MOMENT PWI DECIDES HOW MANY COINS 1 GOLD IS WORTH, NOT THE PLAYERS OR THE MARKET.5 Skill Slots for Pets Please ..Venos will $hare more
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u posted the exact same thing on another thread....vampirevane wrote: »IF PWI really was worried about gold prices, they would sell the hammer for 2Gold 50 silver ...
Selling a Hammer For 5 gold to open a box with 1million coins it's about the same As adding an NPC in game Wich sells gold for 200k each permanently .
Think about it As long as theres chests with 1million coins wich can be opened by 5gold thats setting the gold price at 200k each and no EVENT ending or starting will change it.
AT THE MOMENT PWI DECIDES HOW MANY COINS 1 GOLD IS WORTH, NOT THE PLAYERS OR THE MARKET.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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vampirevane wrote: »IF PWI really was worried about gold prices, they would sell the hammer for 2Gold 50 silver ...
So you are saying that 200k coins per gold unit is not high enough?
What you are suggesting would raise the "worth" of gold to 400k coins per unit.
1,000,000 / 2.5 = 400k coins per unit of gold.
Way to lower the gold prices......b:surrenderToo often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Here a screenshot I took 5 minutes ago. Its kinda sad how much the buyers are willing to spend. b:laugh
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That is lower than last week, when people were willing to buy gold at 245k... isn't it?Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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Tehdemon - Dreamweaver wrote: »Here a screenshot I took 5 minutes ago. Its kinda sad how much the buyers are willing to spend. b:laugh
I'm giggling. If you read the image, 5 mins before she took this screenie she was DEAD! "you can not perform this action while dead"
Sorry my sense of humor is somewhat demented! I found it kind of like a blooper![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm giggling. If you read the image, 5 mins before she took this screenie she was DEAD! "you can not perform this action while dead"
Sorry my sense of humor is somewhat demented! I found it kind of like a blooper!
I saw that too and lol'd. XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Yay! Constant growing Gold prices! When I quit a few months ago, prices in Sanctuary were only around 98k-105k. There were people selling Gold in World Chat for 80k on occasion, as well. You gotta love the ever growing expense of an economy.
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