Crude, almost worth leaving

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Call me a care bear or any other ignorant name you want, I really could care less.

The blatant disregard for the terms of service in this game is staggering. Even more staggering is the fact that ITS ALLOWED!

Having to see people talk about (co***ms,s*x,t**s, n******s and any other sexual enuendo) is baffling. Sure go ahead say, well if you didn't wanna see it turn off world chat. Ok.. I do that and sure as anything its in regular chat. So turn off regular chat.. Ok.. I can do that ... but then its in faction chat(not the one I'm in but ones I"ve been in). OK so turn off faction chat. Wow staggering that is the answer for all the "non carebears". So now I'm limited to squad, pm and trade. But wait a minute, I see it all the time in trade chat too. So if I bleep that out I'm left with squad chat and pm. Now lets just say I happen to get into a squad of people whom I don't know all that well.. and need to turn off squad chat as well. All I'm left with is pm. WOOHOO!!

The terms of service are very clear about this kind of talk and they (the ppl who run this site) refuse to do anything about it. A 20 minute ban for a person who repeatedly says stuff about licking their own n*****s in wc? Come on. This is to the rediclous point people. This is a game. Yes a game. Don't say it back to me like a retort and an excuse for your blissful ignorance and disrespect of others who play this "game" as well. It is not intended for those things. Not to mention the 100's even 1000's of children who in agreeance with that same TOS are online when you choose to spout out your indecencies. This is NOT an adult only game. But that isn't even my main gripe.. some of us don't want to hear what you did this weekend with your partner, or about the illegal activities you partook in.

Is there a reason that the GM's can not and do not and refuse to STOP the people who continue to make this an X rated place to play? Furthermore, why is it so important for ppl to make this an x rated place to play? I Just don't get it. And honestly I applaud the people who have left and am very close to following in their footsteps. Not that anyone but the OWNERS will miss me as I spend my fair share of real life money on this game.

The theory is that well.. I buy my teles I should be able to shout about what I want. Well you know what, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ but I am not on there cramming my beliefs and how I feel about him down YOUR throats! Get off it already! Help make this site enjoyable for all!~

eatwithspoons

It is impossible for GMs to be everywhere at once monitoring every conversation that takes place. If the conduct of any user offends you please do not hesitate to send a report to customer service.

I agree that some people need to be more considerate about their general chat in-game, but in a game with so many users it is pretty much impossible to proactively pursue any user making offensive comments in game at any given time. This is why we rely on our players for help with this.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

eatwithspoons wrote: »

It is impossible for GMs to be everywhere at once monitoring every conversation that takes place. If the conduct of any user offends you please do not hesitate to send a report to customer service.

I agree that some people need to be more considerate about their general chat in-game, but in a game with so many users it is pretty much impossible to proactively pursue any user making offensive comments in game at any given time. This is why we rely on our players for help with this.

I totally agree with this however the main flaw is that its most of the players that behave in that bad way, so it will never stop since most of the time no one will ever report them.

Wizzeled - Sanctuary

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Call me a care bear or any other ignorant name you want, I really could care less.

The blatant disregard for the terms of service in this game is staggering. Even more staggering is the fact that ITS ALLOWED!

Having to see people talk about (co***ms,s*x,t**s, n******s and any other sexual enuendo) is baffling. Sure go ahead say, well if you didn't wanna see it turn off world chat. Ok.. I do that and sure as anything its in regular chat. So turn off regular chat.. Ok.. I can do that ... but then its in faction chat(not the one I'm in but ones I"ve been in). OK so turn off faction chat. Wow staggering that is the answer for all the "non carebears". So now I'm limited to squad, pm and trade. But wait a minute, I see it all the time in trade chat too. So if I bleep that out I'm left with squad chat and pm. Now lets just say I happen to get into a squad of people whom I don't know all that well.. and need to turn off squad chat as well. All I'm left with is pm. WOOHOO!!

The terms of service are very clear about this kind of talk and they (the ppl who run this site) refuse to do anything about it. A 20 minute ban for a person who repeatedly says stuff about licking their own n*****s in wc? Come on. This is to the rediclous point people. This is a game. Yes a game. Don't say it back to me like a retort and an excuse for your blissful ignorance and disrespect of others who play this "game" as well. It is not intended for those things. Not to mention the 100's even 1000's of children who in agreeance with that same TOS are online when you choose to spout out your indecencies. This is NOT an adult only game. But that isn't even my main gripe.. some of us don't want to hear what you did this weekend with your partner, or about the illegal activities you partook in.

Is there a reason that the GM's can not and do not and refuse to STOP the people who continue to make this an X rated place to play? Furthermore, why is it so important for ppl to make this an x rated place to play? I Just don't get it. And honestly I applaud the people who have left and am very close to following in their footsteps. Not that anyone but the OWNERS will miss me as I spend my fair share of real life money on this game.

The theory is that well.. I buy my teles I should be able to shout about what I want. Well you know what, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ but I am not on there cramming my beliefs and how I feel about him down YOUR throats! Get off it already! Help make this site enjoyable for all!~

The people in this game that spend HUGE amounts of cash to waste on teles and such are the ones that wont get banned. Why? Cuz they are probably spending more money then you. It is true these people only want money in exchange for your happiness. As in you pay, you get happy, you unhappy you leave. You leave someone else comes in with a big wallet and cha ching the company is happy then bam repeats itself. Losing 1 spender wont matter to them. I'm sure if a few CEO's played the game they could handle losing 10-20 people that spend money on this game. (Hell if I had a CEO budget I'd have a couple thousand gold :P)

BratFury - Heavens Tear

I sent in ticket after ticket about repeating offensive players. Nothing is done. I see that same person making the same offensive remarks 1,2,3, days weeks later. GM's don't have to be everywhere to see someone say something in world chat. They just have to be logged on that server. And yes you could pursue it, but most of the time they choose not to. Not to mention there are words allowed to be said on here that should not be allowed at all. I don't get that. There obviously is no chat filter for half the words. I am not so naive to think ppl don't or won't curse. But the past month all the world chat has become sexual in nature. Even the faction names you guys are allowing is flushing this game down the toilet! Con**m? Se****ity? What business do those words have in an online gaming site to begin with? let alone used as faction names.

eatwithspoons

The people in this game that spend HUGE amounts of cash to waste on teles and such are the ones that wont get banned. Why? Cuz they are probably spending more money then you. It is true these people only want money in exchange for your happiness. As in you pay, you get happy, you unhappy you leave. You leave someone else comes in with a big wallet and cha ching the company is happy then bam repeats itself. Losing 1 spender wont matter to them. I'm sure if a few CEO's played the game they could handle losing 10-20 people that spend money on this game. (Hell if I had a CEO budget I'd have a couple thousand gold :P)

That's a big oversimplification of the issue IMO. In my mind, the issue is that players believe that because they report a user once they should be permanently banned. If you cursed once by accident and got reported, would you want to get banned outright? We have to give our users the benefit of the doubt after a single report, it's the fair thing to do. Yes, it's a pain to make multiple reports of misbehavior, but if you don't there is no way for us to distinguish a repeat offender from any other person who may accidentally curse occasionally.

I think some people are underestimating the difficulty of being everywhere at once, and when we stand in game about 85% of the people who shout for a GM have issues that are unrelated to harassment, mostly questions about gameplay that could be easily answered by reading the forums. Simply put, it is a waste of manpower to employ someone to only sit in game and do nothing else.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Secrets of Solstice had the same theory I guess, and as over 200ppl walked away from the game in 1 week.. they had to stand up and figure it out.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Not what I meant eatwithspoons. If you are on a server and you see someone in chat talk about things that are inappropriate why not ban them for 24 hours? then if you see that same person do it again a few days later make the ban longer. Eventually they'll get the idea that its not accepted. But choosing to do NOTHING makes them think its acceptable and they can get away with it.

eatwithspoons

I'm not going to get into an argument with you, as I do not respond to customer service e-mails.

also I edited my other post, it was in response to the other post in here

RedsRose - Lost City

Wizzeled - Sanctuary wrote: »

The people in this game that spend HUGE amounts of cash to waste on teles and such are the ones that wont get banned. Why? Cuz they are probably spending more money then you. It is true these people only want money in exchange for your happiness. As in you pay, you get happy, you unhappy you leave. You leave someone else comes in with a big wallet and cha ching the company is happy then bam repeats itself. Losing 1 spender wont matter to them. I'm sure if a few CEO's played the game they could handle losing 10-20 people that spend money on this game. (Hell if I had a CEO budget I'd have a couple thousand gold :P)

What you just said is the problem with most people.

Here is why:

You believe the above and therefore do not send tickets nor report things that bother you or what you deem to be wrong. so then how are things supposed to change.

I personally am one of those to whom it takes quite a bit to get offended. And if that is the case, I would : I ss the chat, send a ticket with the ss attached and blacklist the speaker.

The GM's cannot babysit every single person in this game. It would be nearly an impossible task. There are millions who play this game.

And the TOS also states this as a disclosure:

You must be 13 years of age or older to create an Account. If you are 13 or over, but are under the age of 18, we require that you review these Terms with your parents or guardian to ensure they read and agree to them. If you are the parent of guardian of a user of our website and you have questions about this website or these terms, please contact us at tos@perfectworldinc.com.
Notwithstanding the above, certain portions of our Website and some of our games may contain mature contents not suitable for anyone younger than 18 years of age.

My Disclosure: I am not saying what they say is wrong or right. I am just saying do something about like log a ticket. Besides you would not even know if something was or was not done.

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Simply put, it is a waste of manpower to employ someone to only sit in game and do nothing else.

^^^

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

when its in squad/faction i just tell em off and normally it stops. cant control wc or local as easily though you im them they will just do it more b:angry

Wizzeled - Sanctuary

eatwithspoons wrote: »

That's a big oversimplification of the issue IMO. In my mind, the issue is that players believe that because they report a user once they should be permanently banned. If you cursed once by accident and got reported, would you want to get banned outright? We have to give our users the benefit of the doubt after a single report, it's the fair thing to do. Yes, it's a pain to make multiple reports of misbehavior, but if you don't there is no way for us to distinguish a repeat offender from any other person who may accidentally curse occasionally.

I think some people are underestimating the difficulty of being everywhere at once, and when we stand in game about 85% of the people who shout for a GM have issues that are unrelated to harassment, mostly questions about gameplay that could be easily answered by reading the forums. Simply put, it is a waste of manpower to employ someone to only sit in game and do nothing else.

I'd do that >.< I could honestly waste a day sitting on the game watching people lol..........ehhh I can get rid of my life its not that difficult >.<

BratFury - Heavens Tear

One thing that would make it easier is if we could blacklist more than 20 people. I had that full in one day of playing this game. And just b/c I am 30 and not 13 doesn't change the fact that there is so much stuff being said that I don't care to see. Or want to see.

Yes I see the point, not everyone cares about the children or our future generations and what they are exposed to. I get that. But I don't like being exposed to it either. Some people in this game are just plain CRUDE in world chat and say things that are so off the wall and uncalled for, I don't get it. A game should not in any way be sexual in nature.. and if you choose for it to be for you, why can't u do that in consensual pm? I sure didn't consent to seeing that!!! Thats all I'm saying.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Secrets of Solstice had the same theory I guess, and as over 200ppl walked away from the game in 1 week.. they had to stand up and figure it out.

Ha ha i played that game too. Kron **** sucked big time and xen prices going from 200k-5 million is not fun. I woulda stayed there but pvp is too much QQ and only way to grind is aoe and u can only really do that safely with cash pots solo. The gms let it get way outta control.

I like the gms here at PW. They arent super fast but they do their job its up to the community to report. If you let a person botting get away with it cause your too lazy then we as the player base are letting the game fail and same with anything else thats a violation (Glitch abuse like venos sending pets to kill bosses without pet taking damage from the air, jump ****, wall ****, guard killing world boss for you although not sure if guards do that anymore). The things i listed arent made to single out a certain class its just the most obvious ones i can name.

RedsRose - Lost City

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes I see the point, not everyone cares about the children or our future generations and what they are exposed to. I get that. But I don't like being exposed to it either. Some people in this game are just plain CRUDE in world chat and say things that are so off the wall and uncalled for, I don't get it. A game should not in any way be sexual in nature.. and if you choose for it to be for you, why can't u do that in consensual pm? I sure didn't consent to seeing that!!! Thats all I'm saying.

Ok...I am not flaming, but have you seen some of the clothing that players (including mine wear)?

Anyways...your opinion is that and I am not 100% disagreeing with you, but this is not the first nor the last game to have this. And this is by FAR NOT the worst that I have ever seen.

Good Luck!

Holystic - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Notwithstanding the above, certain portions of our Website and some of our games may contain mature contents not suitable for anyone younger than 18 years of age.

Bingo!

Saving the children is the parents job not mine. I come here to have fun after some stressful days at work, that sometimes involves shooting the breeze with my mates with dirty talk or cussing. I don't abuse world chat but I know a few that do. Yes its annoying , Yes it vulgar at times but that's why we have the ability to blacklist. As for banning people for speech that's plain absurd. If that's how the person likes to have fun than so be it, you have the choice of removing their "comments" and any further contact from them via Blacklist.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not what I meant eatwithspoons. If you are on a server and you see someone in chat talk about things that are inappropriate why not ban them for 24 hours? then if you see that same person do it again a few days later make the ban longer. Eventually they'll get the idea that its not accepted. But choosing to do NOTHING makes them think its acceptable and they can get away with it.

The GMs are the police of a MMO game. They cannot be everywhere at once, and cannot stop players from violating the ToS. Like the police, they rely on players tipping them off that someone is or has violated the ToS so they can investigate the incident. Like the police, they can patrol the servers, but that has limited value and tends to be inefficient. If there is a problem spot they can probably watch it, but they still cannot be everywhere at once.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Maybe you didn't catch it., but the blacklist does not HOLD more than 20 names. I can not blacklist enough people. I could name a few but that would be pointless. I would also like to point Holystic that you said you'd like to shoot the breeze with your mates. Now since I know all of YOUR mates does not include ALL of world chat I'm pretty confident that world chat can be excluded as a place for you to do that.

And to be quite honest with you, as you've stated you don't care.. neither do a lot of parents. Lots of children are raising themselves and no one cares to stop and figure that out as long as it doesn't interfere with them and their life.

My simple question in this whole thread was this: Why won't the Gm's do anything about it? I could also suggest that perhaps there be 2 different chat threads in game. One that is free for all and one that has PG or PG 13 censorship (and words). I know I am not the only Christian in this game that does not care for the vulgarity and language. Even tho I'm not 13... it still applies for me.

And yes, I've seen the clothing but didn't wanna even go there.

Tasswulf - Sanctuary

Personally, when I started playing online games years ago (cough) I was sorta surprised that parents let there kids play these games with adults. I mean the things I heard ppl say, I was like there are children here....then I wised up. As the kids were oh so happy to imform me...they were the ones saying the stuff!
Yep, the dirty fouled mouthed trash that is offensive to the kids, Is actually only said by the kids. Or possibly the tweens, getting play for the first time ever! They like the shock value. Afterall, they can't say it at home. Chaulk it up like this, as an adult, we get to do and say these things...for real. They dont...have you actually seen a teenage boy these days? The acne..the skinny factor. They can't get any play no matter how bad they want to. So they come here, where there own parents don't even police them. And then bombard wc and all other chat w/ these oh so big sounding adult words and acts. I say let them vent, let them dream they actually will ever get to see or do half that stuff. Someday, hopefully not anywhere near age 13, but...they might! Afterall, as adults we get to do it, for real, pretty much whenever we want. So why would we even care about talking about it?

And by actually posting on this thread, you just made them laugh even harder. Afterall, to anyone under 20...anyone over 20 is old. And lame, and uncool...you get the picture. They don't respect themselves yet, can't respect anyone else either. So ya, I just laugh, and smile, and think...yay..someone elses kid! Blame the hormones b:laugh

Zephyrx - Lost City

The way I see it...

The OP doesn't have balls to stand up to trash talk...... Hell I trash talk like 50% of the time, how do you think I can cope with it?

But anyhow, it is breaking the rules to harass <.<.... So like they should be punished. But to the OP, you can't just sit your lazy **** all day and expect all the GMs to do the work. Take initiative, SS their trash talk. Tell them please stop... instead of randomly flaming those 1337 talkers...

P.S. @OP, it sucks that you don't even have the power to deal with it yourself. Wt a *****!

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My simple question in this whole thread was this: Why won't the Gm's do anything about it?

The GMs enforce the ToS, and in the area of language usage they have to take into account the proverbial slip of the tongue. According to you they should reprimand everyone who accidentally lets a swear word fly out of frustration. What an empty world PW would be if they did that.

Zephyrx - Lost City

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The GMs enforce the ToS, and in the area of language usage they have to take into account the proverbial slip of the tongue. According to you they should reprimand everyone who accidentally lets a swear word fly out of frustration. What an empty world PW would be if they did that.

PW would be a really bad place if they banned all the cool people who talk trash...

Theotus - Heavens Tear

Ok. I'm a really nice guy. Truly, I am. You say you aren't being childish and naive, but this is exactly what you are doing. I am not the type to use vulgar terms unless I am in pm, but that does not mean I am an angel. I have slip ups, it happens. God isn't going to punish people for things they say. You are 30, ok, so where is your life experience. People aren't going to speak or act the way you want them to, no matter how harsh the punishment. This is an online game, not a business meeting, church, or daycare. also, it is an american based server. As such, people have the absolute right to say whatever they please without repercussion. The ToS may say certain things, but as I said before, many people don't care. You are entitled to your opinion, but the fact is, most people don't share the same stance as you, and trying to make that happen is nothing but a waste of time. No one has forced you to play this game socially. It's still a decent game without chat. And that is all I have to say. Sorry if I was rude, but your comments have been no better.

Holystic - Sanctuary

blacklist does not HOLD more than 20 names

Really b:laugh, I guess I haven't hated enough people to get to the limit ..thx for the info, learning something new everyday. Unfortunately BratFury this problem you speak of is rampant in many MMORPG's ,I have played a few and have yet to see one where everything is "clean". Some games have a better filtering system but I don't know of any that permanent bans for vulgar language or offensive names. I'm sure if they did that they would lose out on business.

Nihillae - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I sent in ticket after ticket about repeating offensive players. Nothing is done. I see that same person making the same offensive remarks 1,2,3, days weeks later. GM's don't have to be everywhere to see someone say something in world chat. They just have to be logged on that server. And yes you could pursue it, but most of the time they choose not to. Not to mention there are words allowed to be said on here that should not be allowed at all. I don't get that. There obviously is no chat filter for half the words. I am not so naive to think ppl don't or won't curse. But the past month all the world chat has become sexual in nature. Even the faction names you guys are allowing is flushing this game down the toilet! Con**m? Se****ity? What business do those words have in an online gaming site to begin with? let alone used as faction names.

Since when did condom and sexuality become "4 letter words"?b:shutup Tasteless? Sure.
But in the same category as George Carlin's 10 dirty words? Hardly.

I have a feeling your sense of what constitutes vulgar or offensive is a bit tweaked from the majority of the server.b:surrender

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Theotus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok. I'm a really nice guy. Truly, I am. You say you aren't being childish and naive, but this is exactly what you are doing. I am not the type to use vulgar terms unless I am in pm, but that does not mean I am an angel. I have slip ups, it happens. God isn't going to punish people for things they say. You are 30, ok, so where is your life experience. People aren't going to speak or act the way you want them to, no matter how harsh the punishment. This is an online game, not a business meeting, church, or daycare. also, it is an american based server. As such, people have the absolute right to say whatever they please without repercussion. The ToS may say certain things, but as I said before, many people don't care. You are entitled to your opinion, but the fact is, most people don't share the same stance as you, and trying to make that happen is nothing but a waste of time. No one has forced you to play this game socially. It's still a decent game without chat. And that is all I have to say. Sorry if I was rude, but your comments have been no better.

Yes, people can and will say whatever they want, but if it violates the ToS they shouldn't be surprised when they get muted/suspended/banned.

Case in point, in a game I used to play the guild master of my guild was suspended not because of something they said, but because of the language being used in guild chat even though it was acceptable to use such language to most of the guild members someone was offended, and the language just happened to be against the game ToS.


Oh, and you are wrong: PWE is a private company and doesn't have to allow you or anyone else to say whatever you wish as freedom of speech doesn't apply.

Oceiot - Heavens Tear

Now, I'm wondering how you type in a swear on accident >.>

BratFury - Heavens Tear

See this is the deal, you guys are taking what is said and running the wrong direction with it. If you will read later posts you will see where I said that I am not naive enough to think there will not be cursing. My main issue is with all the sexual enuendo that goes on. There is no call for it. NONE. In your life if you want to talk about such things I am not trying to stop you. I'm asking that you repect the rest of us that don't wanna hear it. They made a seperate chat room system for a reason.

Still no one has answered the question WHAT business do those words have here? Maybe I was raised different than most, but if I wouldn't feel comfortable saying something in front of my mother, I sure wouldn't shout it out to a bunch of people I do not know at all. Yes, TASTELESS to use such words. What is right or wrong is only defined by what one feels is right or wrong in their own mind. I can't say what is right or wrong for you, but only for myself.

Blacklisting people also isn't about hate. It is about seeing stuff that I don't want to see from that person and making sure I dont' see it again. Has nothing to do with "hating" that person.

Too many of you just "go with the flow". In the same retrospect about it being the normal in all MMORPG games, this is the worst filtered one I've ever seen. So I guess all the people out there who want to talk about s*x and what to do during it, you win. Its your game. Because it certainly doesn't seem to be a game that cares about members who otherwise dont' wanna see your trash.

That said, everyone have a good day. I'm not here to argue and fight. Just somehow some way wish I could make a difference.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

I wonder the same thing. How do you type anything on "accident" other than typos? You have to think about what you are going to type, and then type it.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I wonder the same thing. How do you type anything on "accident" other than typos? You have to think about what you are going to type, and then type it.

No, you don't.

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

See this is the deal, you guys are taking what is said and running the wrong direction with it. If you will read later posts you will see where I said that I am not naive enough to think there will not be cursing. My main issue is with all the sexual enuendo that goes on. There is no call for it. NONE. In your life if you want to talk about such things I am not trying to stop you. I'm asking that you repect the rest of us that don't wanna hear it. They made a seperate chat room system for a reason.

Still no one has answered the question WHAT business do those words have here? Maybe I was raised different than most, but if I wouldn't feel comfortable saying something in front of my mother, I sure wouldn't shout it out to a bunch of people I do not know at all. Yes, TASTELESS to use such words. What is right or wrong is only defined by what one feels is right or wrong in their own mind. I can't say what is right or wrong for you, but only for myself.

Blacklisting people also isn't about hate. It is about seeing stuff that I don't want to see from that person and making sure I dont' see it again. Has nothing to do with "hating" that person.

Too many of you just "go with the flow". In the same retrospect about it being the normal in all MMORPG games, this is the worst filtered one I've ever seen. So I guess all the people out there who want to talk about s*x and what to do during it, you win. Its your game. Because it certainly doesn't seem to be a game that cares about members who otherwise dont' wanna see your trash.

That said, everyone have a good day. I'm not here to argue and fight. Just somehow some way wish I could make a difference.

If you find something offensive, report them, but that doesn't mean what you find offensive is against the ToS. GMs enforce the ToS, not what you find socially acceptable or unacceptable.

Niraneth - Heavens Tear

Thats the key word there: THINK. Society today doesnt think it just does. I have a potty mouth ill admit it....my language can be as foul as the depths of hell, but i dont go spreading it around on WC or where people i dont know a bit can see. I call that common respect and courtesy and as an adult i would expect the same, but again with todays society you dont see it. I can see brat's point and i sympathize with it and i can also see the GM point of view and the HUGE work load they must have with people yelling "disconnects!" "lag!" "im stuck!" the list goes on. Im forced to wonder though why there is no happy compromise that can be made on both ends?

And a side note, i have been playing this game since opening in sept 2008, and the increase in spewed garbage on WC has increased 3 fold, was there an insurge of pollution?