Progressing to the next era.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

scridon wrote: »

Its because the only way that Nef will get a good fight is if there is a mass attack.b:surrender

Your definition of a good fight must be slightly different than most then. But hey...if you enjoy gang bangs...more power to you.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

at this point in time scridon is right.. but just talking about it on the forums won't do anything.. most of the people on the forums are like me.. sitting here bored off their **** at work trying to make the time pass faster.. so talking here won't get the message out to most of sanctuary

i'm interested in what dan has cooked up ..

only reasons i've argued with scridon at all is because his statements seemed to contradict themselves (atleast to me and how i read them) .. he is correct in that attacking on many fronts is the only way to beat nef at the moment.. but guess what.. if nef falls.. the TW will be good for a month or 2.. then some dominant power will spring back up and it'll be the same thing over again.. it is how the TW system works

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

at this point in time scridon is right.. but just talking about it on the forums won't do anything.. most of the people on the forums are like me.. sitting here bored off their **** at work trying to make the time pass faster.. so talking here won't get the message out to most of sanctuary

i'm interested in what dan has cooked up ..

only reasons i've argued with scridon at all is because his statements seemed to contradict themselves (atleast to me and how i read them) .. he is correct in that attacking on many fronts is the only way to beat nef at the moment.. but guess what.. if nef falls.. the TW will be good for a month or 2.. then some dominant power will spring back up and it'll be the same thing over again.. it is how the TW system works

True...and I'm in the same boat. At work. Bored.

But really it's going to take 3 strong factions to pull this off. Defending is much easier than attacking.

Bring it on Dan.

scridon

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your definition of a good fight must be slightly different than most then. But hey...if you enjoy gang bangs...more power to you.

Do I really have to explain this to you?

Venomeow - Sanctuary

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your definition of a good fight must be slightly different than most then. But hey...if you enjoy gang bangs...more power to you.

Of course Dan enjoys gang bangs. You should see him on vent taking three guys at a time.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

at this point in time scridon is right.. but just talking about it on the forums won't do anything.. most of the people on the forums are like me.. sitting here bored off their **** at work trying to make the time pass faster.. so talking here won't get the message out to most of sanctuary

i'm interested in what dan has cooked up ..

only reasons i've argued with scridon at all is because his statements seemed to contradict themselves (atleast to me and how i read them) .. he is correct in that attacking on many fronts is the only way to beat nef at the moment.. but guess what.. if nef falls.. the TW will be good for a month or 2.. then some dominant power will spring back up and it'll be the same thing over again.. it is how the TW system works

Bingo, as I see it, we're revolving around the 'Nefarious/Legendary era,' when and if Nef/Leg falls, we'll likely see another faction emerge to the top, or perhaps even the playing field, so each faction has a chance to obtain the opportunity to Visualize and Achieve.

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary

For those who don't know me,I'm a legendary member and guess what? My personal wish is that both Nef and LG fall,not completely but loose half lands or more. Why? Simple,due to the crappy TW system that's so easy to defend and so hard to atack if this could become something like Lost City server with Conqueror taking all lands.LG didn't have a good pvp tw in months,there was the 1 vs steel 1 month or more ago...but that was when they had full force after which they lost members bla bla....everything else became boring again.For our part, what we'll do is totally depending on our members:

1-some want good pvp tws which means atacking nef not caring if it's a pointless 3 hour battle in which no1 wins,not caring if we get atacked after and even loose lands,we got enough ,allot of us(me included ofc) just want fun good tws like how ShockWave vs Legendary was and I know NO1 on this server had tws as good as those,long 3 hour balanced lvls/numbers etc battle.

2-some are just interested in lands and scared to be atacked by other factions if we atack or fail vs nef so they prefer to just stay and do nothing unless we got a weaker target to attack.

I might be selfish saying this but ,my personal wish is :attack us,gang up on us,get our lands and we'll try to get them back,win & loose that's what make's TWs exciting. However I'll admit if we'll get totally ganged for weeks non-stop then nef will become the "Conqueror" of sanctuary so what to do against this?
I'd say try this : gang up on either us or nef and keep doing it in a balanced way,sometimes go on nef ,sometimes go on LG, and.........if either nef gain's a new land from LG or LG gain's a new land from Nef then focus gangs on the 1 who got the land ,don't let neither take advantage of the other's downfall.
I'm loyal to LG and hope the best for the faction but if this keep's up the server TW fun will die;top guilds must fall so that fun will be brought back on sanctuary(atleast till diablo 3 ,starcraft 2 or aion come out b:victory ).

Briegg - Sanctuary

o:

you gotta gimme your battle.net name when SCII
comes out xD

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary

I'll be playing on garena or ggc ,as I do with dota :P but...that's off topic b:victory

TheDan - Sanctuary

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary wrote: »

For those who don't know me,I'm a legendary member and guess what? My personal wish is that both Nef and LG fall,not completely but loose half lands or more. Why? Simple,due to the crappy TW system that's so easy to defend and so hard to atack if this could become something like Lost City server with Conqueror taking all lands.LG didn't have a good pvp tw in months,there was the 1 vs steel 1 month or more ago...but that was when they had full force after which they lost members bla bla....everything else became boring again.For our part, what we'll do is totally depending on our members:

1-some want good pvp tws which means atacking nef not caring if it's a pointless 3 hour battle in which no1 wins,not caring if we get atacked after and even loose lands,we got enough ,allot of us(me included ofc) just want fun good tws like how ShockWave vs Legendary was and I know NO1 on this server had tws as good as those,long 3 hour balanced lvls/numbers etc battle.

2-some are just interested in lands and scared to be atacked by other factions if we atack or fail vs nef so they prefer to just stay and do nothing unless we got a weaker target to attack.

I might be selfish saying this but ,my personal wish is :attack us,gang up on us,get our lands and we'll try to get them back,win & loose that's what make's TWs exciting. However I'll admit if we'll get totally ganged for weeks non-stop then nef will become the "Conqueror" of sanctuary so what to do against this?
I'd say try this : gang up on either us or nef and keep doing it in a balanced way,sometimes go on nef ,sometimes go on LG, and.........if either nef gain's a new land from LG or LG gain's a new land from Nef then focus gangs on the 1 who got the land ,don't let neither take advantage of the other's downfall.
I'm loyal to LG and hope the best for the faction but if this keep's up the server TW fun will die;top guilds must fall so that fun will be brought back on sanctuary(atleast till diablo 3 ,starcraft 2 or aion come out b:victory ).

I don't understand your 3rd point. How would one gang up on either nef or leg in a "balanced way?" If you succeed in capturing land, then you're surrounded by the rest of their lands if I'm not mistaken. I don't see both guilds losing lands at the same time, because one will inevitably overcome the other when one is being ganged.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

well there is quite a large leg/nef border .. and as long as they keep their attacks centralized then they could attack either.. but it still wouldn't happen i don't think .. people will see that one faction can be beat .. and just pour it on till that faction is no more .. or that faction gets stronger and can hold em off

Akasera - Sanctuary

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

well there is quite a large leg/nef border .. and as long as they keep their attacks centralized then they could attack either.. but it still wouldn't happen i don't think .. people will see that one faction can be beat .. and just pour it on till that faction is no more .. or that faction gets stronger and can hold em off

This. Greed and opportunism are basic human characteristics, much less of a TW faction. Should others see a crack in the armor of either power, basic instinct will be mob them for the easier win. The other power will join in of course and continue tearing down the rival, then scarf up the various remaining mini-states. It would make for an entertaining month or so of TW, as a bunch of equivalent factions squabble with each other, then TW will die once the remaining super-power is finished.

Lycinius - Sanctuary

for the ppl who keep saying we twed against STEEL at full strength...
ive been to every steel TW and i have yet to see them have a TW with our full strength

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Lycinius - Sanctuary wrote: »

for the ppl who keep saying we twed against STEEL at full strength...
ive been to every steel TW and i have yet to see them have a TW with our full strength

What you CAN bring to a TW is full force.
Example:
You only have ONE territory war against another faction. BOTH of these factions only have 1 TW at the time. Whatever you can bring to the TW is FULL FORCE.

Full force does not mean your highest 80 members. Never works like that. If you have 200 members total and only 30 show up for the TW, then your full force is 30, not 200.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Akasera - Sanctuary wrote: »

This. Greed and opportunism are basic human characteristics, much less of a TW faction. Should others see a crack in the armor of either power, basic instinct will be mob them for the easier win. The other power will join in of course and continue tearing down the rival, then scarf up the various remaining mini-states. It would make for an entertaining month or so of TW, as a bunch of equivalent factions squabble with each other, then TW will die once the remaining super-power is finished.

What you say is true, but I respectfully disagree that TW would not die in the scenario that both super-powers are finished. I'd daresay, that the collapse of both super-powers would bring upon an evening of the playing field; far from being dead. Or perhaps see another era of factions struggling to emerge to the top, reintroducing the game-play everyone's been craving for for so long.

Akasera - Sanctuary

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

well there is quite a large leg/nef border .. and as long as they keep their attacks centralized then they could attack either.. but it still wouldn't happen i don't think .. people will see that one faction can be beat .. and just pour it on till that faction is no more .. or that faction gets stronger and can hold em off

Akasera - Sanctuary wrote: »

This. Greed and opportunism are basic human characteristics, much less of a TW faction. Should others see a crack in the armor of either power, basic instinct will be mob them for the easier win. The other power will join in of course and continue tearing down the rival, then scarf up the various remaining mini-states. It would make for an entertaining month or so of TW, as a bunch of equivalent factions squabble with each other, then TW will die once the remaining super-power is finished.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

What you say is true, but I respectfully disagree that TW would not die in the scenario that both super-powers are finished. I'd daresay, that the collapse of both super-powers would bring upon an evening of the playing field; far from being dead. Or perhaps see another era of factions struggling to emerge to the top, reintroducing the game-play everyone's been craving for for so long.

You misunderstand what I wrote. When I said TW would be dead when the other superpower was finished, I meant finished as in done gobbling up all the other smaller factions, not finished as in itself killed. Under the above scenario, really the only thing that could kill both is for the 2nd superpower to itself implode (egos, apathy, bad leadership, whatever). I do think it's fairly probable that such a power would leave a small 2 or 3 land playground, if nothing else to help siphon away repetitive, nuisance attacks.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Akasera - Sanctuary wrote: »

You misunderstand what I wrote. When I said TW would be dead when the other superpower was finished, I meant finished as in done gobbling up all the other smaller factions, not finished as in itself killed. Under the above scenario, really the only thing that could kill both is for the 2nd superpower to itself implode (egos, apathy, bad leadership, whatever). I do think it's fairly probable that such a power would leave a small 2 or 3 land playground, if nothing else to help siphon away repetitive, nuisance attacks.

Thanks for the previous correction; however, "...really the only thing that could kill both is for the 2nd superpower to itself implode." is arguable.

I wouldn't say that it's the only way, unless the first superpower completely vanishes off the face of PWI. They'll likely take heavy losses in members (ex. Outlaw, Shockwave), but still maintain a small core of loyal members, which could arguably still have some sort of fire-power to overcome, with the help of other factions, the remaining landholder.

But if in the scenario that the first superpower does indeed just disband or disperse all their members, and the remaining superpower doubles their strength, then it's likely that it would only fall to internal troubles.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

that is the cycle of TW for PW though.. its how it will always be (most likely).. TW will only be interesting in short month or two month long spurts..

TW lends it self to monopolies.. attacking is too hard.. defending too easy.. as countless people have said before me ... so if one power disbans or loses tons of members and they disperse.. the next super power will come in and take over all its lands and it'll be the same story different name

I'd love a balanced TW system.. but for it to happen in this current game how it is.. you would need like.. 1000 people at 90+ all spread throughout like 8-10 factions with good gear (these numbers are completely arbitrary.. could be balanced with less) .. that way 1 on 1 would be a good fight.. 2 on 1 would be a big challenge to defend.. 3 on 1 pretty much impossible .. so at this point in the game I don't see any lasting fun for TW.. its just going to be a big cycle of... big power rises up... big power dies .. next big power rises

Now I could be wrong .. maybe a big power will come along that is stable enough to survive.. but I don't see that happening.. there are too many drama lovers in this game .. always people to incite some riot and tear a faction apart

Evga - Sanctuary

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary wrote: »

For those who don't know me,I'm a legendary member and guess what? My personal wish is that both Nef and LG fall,not completely but loose half lands or more. Why? Simple,due to the crappy TW system that's so easy to defend and so hard to atack if this could become something like Lost City server with Conqueror taking all lands.LG didn't have a good pvp tw in months,there was the 1 vs steel 1 month or more ago...but that was when they had full force after which they lost members bla bla....everything else became boring again.For our part, what we'll do is totally depending on our members:

1-some want good pvp tws which means atacking nef not caring if it's a pointless 3 hour battle in which no1 wins,not caring if we get atacked after and even loose lands,we got enough ,allot of us(me included ofc) just want fun good tws like how ShockWave vs Legendary was and I know NO1 on this server had tws as good as those,long 3 hour balanced lvls/numbers etc battle.

2-some are just interested in lands and scared to be atacked by other factions if we atack or fail vs nef so they prefer to just stay and do nothing unless we got a weaker target to attack.

I might be selfish saying this but ,my personal wish is :attack us,gang up on us,get our lands and we'll try to get them back,win & loose that's what make's TWs exciting. However I'll admit if we'll get totally ganged for weeks non-stop then nef will become the "Conqueror" of sanctuary so what to do against this?
I'd say try this : gang up on either us or nef and keep doing it in a balanced way,sometimes go on nef ,sometimes go on LG, and.........if either nef gain's a new land from LG or LG gain's a new land from Nef then focus gangs on the 1 who got the land ,don't let neither take advantage of the other's downfall.
I'm loyal to LG and hope the best for the faction but if this keep's up the server TW fun will die;top guilds must fall so that fun will be brought back on sanctuary(atleast till diablo 3 ,starcraft 2 or aion come out b:victory ).

nooooo, don't gank legendary!! i want to be gank for pvp kills :P gank nef instead

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary wrote: »

For those who don't know me,I'm a legendary member and guess what? My personal wish is that both Nef and LG fall,not completely but loose half lands or more. Why? Simple,due to the crappy TW system that's so easy to defend and so hard to atack if this could become something like Lost City server with Conqueror taking all lands.LG didn't have a good pvp tw in months,there was the 1 vs steel 1 month or more ago...but that was when they had full force after which they lost members bla bla....everything else became boring again.For our part, what we'll do is totally depending on our members:

1-some want good pvp tws which means atacking nef not caring if it's a pointless 3 hour battle in which no1 wins,not caring if we get atacked after and even loose lands,we got enough ,allot of us(me included ofc) just want fun good tws like how ShockWave vs Legendary was and I know NO1 on this server had tws as good as those,long 3 hour balanced lvls/numbers etc battle.

2-some are just interested in lands and scared to be atacked by other factions if we atack or fail vs nef so they prefer to just stay and do nothing unless we got a weaker target to attack.

I might be selfish saying this but ,my personal wish is :attack us,gang up on us,get our lands and we'll try to get them back,win & loose that's what make's TWs exciting. However I'll admit if we'll get totally ganged for weeks non-stop then nef will become the "Conqueror" of sanctuary so what to do against this?
I'd say try this : gang up on either us or nef and keep doing it in a balanced way,sometimes go on nef ,sometimes go on LG, and.........if either nef gain's a new land from LG or LG gain's a new land from Nef then focus gangs on the 1 who got the land ,don't let neither take advantage of the other's downfall.
I'm loyal to LG and hope the best for the faction but if this keep's up the server TW fun will die;top guilds must fall so that fun will be brought back on sanctuary(atleast till diablo 3 ,starcraft 2 or aion come out b:victory ).

i agree ^^ but yeah its really stupid if one faction owns everything but then again there will always be greed so it wont work that well but better than right now eh?

Devarsi - Sanctuary

Evga - Sanctuary wrote:

nooooo, don't gank legendary!! i want to be gank for pvp kills :P gank nef instead

Yes gank us and everyone target Evga because of his nix and rare pet killing ways b:chuckle

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

What you say is true, but I respectfully disagree that TW would not die in the scenario that both super-powers are finished. I'd daresay, that the collapse of both super-powers would bring upon an evening of the playing field; far from being dead. Or perhaps see another era of factions struggling to emerge to the top, reintroducing the game-play everyone's been craving for for so long.

Evening of the playing field? Dan you should know this is impossible. There will never be an even playing field. Ever. Whether it's Nef, Legendary, or <insert faction here>. Where ever the skill, levels, and equips are...that is where the power will reside. The only "even" playing field ever seen in Sanctuary was when the server opened and ended when the first mob was killed. Or perhaps even before that when the first cash shop item was bought.

So let's drop the "even" BS shall we?

TheDan - Sanctuary

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Evening of the playing field? Dan you should know this is impossible. There will never be an even playing field. Ever. Whether it's Nef, Legendary, or <insert faction here>. Where ever the skill, levels, and equips are...that is where the power will reside. The only "even" playing field ever seen in Sanctuary was when the server opened and ended when the first mob was killed. Or perhaps even before that when the first cash shop item was bought.

So let's drop the "even" BS shall we?

You clearly haven't understood what I meant. Please understand that when I stated "even playing field," I don't suggest your Communist standpoint of being "equal." You've implied that every skill, level, equipment, and economic status must be equal in order to see an even playing field.

I've simply suggested that if the two super-powers disperse some of their "resources," it's possible to see the odds readjusted so that Guilds have an equal(if not close a greater chance) chance to gain or lose a territory each week. Rather than see guilds win every single battle, and eventually become unopposed.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

it would be nice if that happened.. but it won't dan .. not until we get more of these "resources"

as the old saying says... everyone likes a winner ... the winners will get their pick of the litter and the other factions will have to pick over whats left

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You clearly haven't understood what I meant. Please understand that when I stated "even playing field," I don't suggest your Communist standpoint of being "equal." You've implied that every skill, level, equipment, and economic status must be equal in order to see an even playing field.

lol...Communist? You are the one calling for an impossibility. I'm stating the facts. If anything I'm a Realist. You are the one promoting a communist ideal ( see below ).

I've simply suggested that if the two super-powers disperse some of their "resources," it's possible to see the odds readjusted so that Guilds have an equal(if not close a greater chance) chance to gain or lose a territory each week. Rather than see guilds win every single battle, and eventually become unopposed.

So...more power to "the little people". Disperse "resources" based on some vague unsupportable notion where all can have a chance at being "equal".

Get a bigger shovel and try not to project your philosophy onto others Dan. It didn't work in the real world and it's certainly not going to work here.

My statement still stands.

If you want an "equal" chance then get your collective acts together, plan, level, and take it. That's how the game works.

TheDan - Sanctuary

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol...Communist? You are the one calling for an impossibility. I'm stating the facts. If anything I'm a Realist. You are the one promoting a communist ideal ( see below ).

A) Taking action to quell the superpowers is not an impossibility, it's already been demonstrated in the past that it's more than possible.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

So...more power to "the little people". Disperse "resources" based on some vague unsupportable notion where all can have a chance at being "equal".

This means a greater chance to win and lose, this does not mean that when two people stumble upon a stalemate in a game of chess, they are labeled Communists, because they're at equal force.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Get a bigger shovel and try not to project your philosophy onto others Dan. It didn't work in the real world and it's certainly not going to work here.

C) If you don't believe in my concepts, you can ignore them. It's like the newspaper, if you don't like what you're reading, you are not obliged to continue reading. Denial, Ignorance and Incredulity. Enough said.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

My statement still stands.

D) I beg to differ, see below.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you want an "equal" chance then get your collective acts together, plan, level, and take it. That's how the game works.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You are the one calling for an impossibility.

E) Contradiction, see above.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you want an "equal" chance then get your collective acts together, plan, level, and take it. That's how the game works.

F) My intentions have already been made clear in my first post, it's been planned, discussed, and thought out.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

eh then lets just see the plan put in action.. enough of this debate .. its gotten boring .. everyone has their opinion and its not going to change ...

your whole "you can't ignore the truth forever" is just silly dan... there is no truth in any of this .. its all opinion on what should be done and speculation about what will happen.. so just do what you think should be done and lets see the outcome .. only then will it become a truth

i'm waiting for it .. should be interesting

scridon

Long live Nefarious. b:victory


b:chuckle

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

A) Taking action to quell the superpowers is not an impossibility, it's already been demonstrated in the past that it's more than possible.

And it's always in the manner as I've stated. Never a "Super power" rolling over and playing dead, sharing the wealth, what have you.

This means a greater chance to win and lose, this does not mean that when two people stumble upon a stalemate in a game of chess, they are labeled Communists, because they're at equal force.

Bad analogy. In a game of Chess between two perfectly "equal" opponents White wins. And you were the one labeling *me* a communist.

C) If you don't believe in my concepts, you can ignore them. It's like the newspaper, if you don't like what you're reading, you are not obliged to continue reading. Denial, Ignorance and Incredulity.

I could ignore them...but they are BS. The only time I can stand the stuff is in a garden. Makes the flowers grow.

D) I beg to differ, see below.

Beg all you wish...it doesn't change the facts.

E) Contradiction, see above.

No...a percieved contradiction. In other words an opinion. Opinions -vs- reality...Reality wins.

F) My intentions have already been made clear in my first post, it's been planned, and discussed.

Good...I look forward to whatever plans you may have.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

Viva la revolution?

o.O