Annoyance with the Veno hate >.>

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Nice post! Direct, good points made. I'll give you a 10!!!

dekciw

Flesh Ream is not reduced in pvp that's the problem. Nothing else. WF are needed in FB & HH not sure what you're all QQing about. The ability to "lure", well I should say glitch actually because it wasn't intended to be, is actually essential in most hh/fbs. Also Venos/WF make great DDs for HH, way more useful than a wiz.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

dekciw wrote: »

Flesh Ream is not reduced in pvp that's the problem. Nothing else. WF are needed in FB & HH not sure what you're all QQing about. The ability to "lure", well I should say glitch actually because it wasn't intended to be, is actually essential in most hh/fbs. Also Venos/WF make great DDs for HH, way more useful than a wiz.

Actually I think I remember reading a post from a GM saying that the luring we can do is part of the class and was put there intentionally.

Sejhia - Heavens Tear

dekciw wrote: »

Flesh Ream is not reduced in pvp that's the problem. Nothing else. WF are needed in FB & HH not sure what you're all QQing about. The ability to "lure", well I should say glitch actually because it wasn't intended to be, is actually one of most essential thing in hh/fbs.

Thats one of the funny things in a lot of these post that makes me wonder If I am reading correctly. If venos have the ability to lure mobs in a fail safe manner (bugged or not) is that not beneficial to all who party with them?
I have been in a few FBs already (I have other characters) and I love it when both venos and bards are around (no need to mention clerics because they are a given).

Now one of the other big issues is soloing/money making specifically in dungeons because as I have pointed out in my previous post in the field I can outfarm a veno so long as I got powder/charm. Now this is problem I had in my previous mmo as well. The pet class ability to solo dungeons better than all others. However I look at it like this. I personally prefer parties because even though my personal gain in terms of drops is lower, our overall kill speed and ability to gain experience is far better. In fact in my previous mmo even though I was an "uber" pet class I still preferred to party because to me getting stronger (higher level) was actually more beneficial than getting better drops. That game had a different system though because of level based evasion. E.g. a lvl 90 player would basically be unable to hit a lvl 111 and higher. However I digress.

My point is that I prefer to party than to solo anyway. I picked a wizard knowing that soloing dungeons was out of the question. However I like big numbers. So why hate on venos if than solo every dungeon or boss in the game? Let me ask a different question:

Are the highest level, richest, best PvP players all venos? Are most of them venos? Are any of them venos? If not who are? I can see based on data that archers are certainly up there PvP wise and from my own observation rich is dependant on your play time/wallet. As for highest level I see a pretty good mix up there.

dekciw

Sejhia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thats one of the funny things in a lot of these post that makes me wonder If I am reading correctly. If venos have the ability to lure mobs in a fail safe manner (bugged or not) is that not beneficial to all who party with them?

It is beneficial and that's one of the main reason they are essential in fb/hh parties. It may not be a glitch, I was only assuming it was but Zoe said GMs said it was intended so I guess it could be very much it.

Sejhia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now one of the other big issues is soloing/money making specifically in dungeons because as I have pointed out in my previous post in the field I can outfarm a veno so long as I got powder/charm. Now this is problem I had in my previous mmo as well. The pet class ability to solo dungeons better than all others. However I look at it like this. I personally prefer parties because even though my personal gain in terms of drops is lower, our overall kill speed and ability to gain experience is far better. In fact in my previous mmo even though I was an "uber" pet class I still preferred to party because to me getting stronger (higher level) was actually more beneficial than getting better drops. That game had a different system though because of level based evasion. E.g. a lvl 90 player would basically be unable to hit a lvl 111 and higher. However I digress.

I don't feel like there is anything wrong with the PVE aspect of venos, they are a money making class and they level fast. Hercules can tank a lot of things but then again he can't tank everything.

Sejhia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are the highest level, richest, best PvP players all venos? Are most of them venos? Are any of them venos? If not who are? I can see based on data that archers are certainly up there PvP wise and from my own observation rich is dependant on your play time/wallet. As for highest level I see a pretty good mix up there.

The problem is that with flesh ream not being reduced no matter how rich you are, as long as the Veno has a decently leveled phoenix the bleed will just eat through you. And what's making it even worse is that the phoenix is actually not hard to get, so 90% of the high level venos have a phoenix. When I pvp running into 5-6 phoenix is something really common and it's quite annoying to see everyone around you die 3 second after getting hit by it. The Venos doesn't even have to fight you, they send the pet in and start flying away, the pet alone kills 85% of the robe/light user with the bleed only( we have a couple of rich people that can survive the bleed but it still does tick their hiero with 8-9k hp lol). If you have some free time I suggest reading this post I made http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=1548262&postcount=1 which explains accurately why it's such of a big deal.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Bleed is bugged. I wish they would fix it. That would at least end some of the Veno Hatred. Of course, there will always be something else. I'm so sick of these people QQ because they didn't roll the class designed for soloing the game, and are all pissed off about veno's doing what they were designed to do. Pretty pathetic and stupid.

~S

RaijinRyu - Lost City

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

Whiners! Why must you pissy PVPerstry to ruin something that isnt even broken? Whining and b****ing that theyre "overpowered" using the only reason of a bug in pvp is outright stupid.

1. Nobody wants to party us 85% of the time. I cant tell you how many times Ive been rejected out of FB parties, boss parties, TT etc. It frikken sucks! We ALWAYS have to solo if we want to level.

2. Leveling these pets people whine that give us an unfair advantage is a horrendous affair that makes you want to stab your eyes out.
We have little to -no- physical defense with arcane builds, in which if we did not have that golem, we'd be fried faster than a donut in hot oil

3.Most of our spells suck. Look at wizards, clerics, etc. Their magic far out damages ours, and they have a way bigger selection of ones they can use. If you have ever played a veno you'd know you only use ironwood and venomous, your initiate and level 8 skill, throughout nearly the entire game.

-blazing and frost scarab: lousy DoT over 30 seconds, or another that costs a spark to have a -chance- for dot? bull ****

-lucky scarab: lovely skill but not used often outside the need for a quick stun. 12s is a pretttyyy long cooldown.

-noxious gas: also good skill... but most unexperienced venos dont know how to keep aggro on their pet for multiple mobs, end up stealing aggro, and killing themselves with it lol.

-parasitic nova: lol 2 sparks for an aoe that your basic skills out damage? the stun is nice, but. 2 sparks. ouch.

Yeah, also, theyre all wood. wood wood wood wood. Not fire, earth, water etc, we're stuck using wood spells on evvvverrryyyythhinnngggg.

4.our hp mods blow especially with vit points added on.

before you whine on these forums that we're broken... play one and see.

ironwood-venomous-venomous-heal pet/ironwood/venomous depending on the situation. rinse and repeat. Its knda gimped . Not everyone has 20m or 200$ to buy a phoenix kthnx so dont ruin my little fun i still manage to have on a veno. much love

PS: to those who TL:DR me, go die

Just wanted to quote on the whole physical def disadvantage your talking about.
I think bramble should fix your physical def problem when it comes to pvp. Besides venos run throughout the whole fight (not saying there's anything wrong with that) so if you are a barb you have 2 aimlessly chase the veno around while her phoenix is kicking the **** out of you, and if you do manage to catch up and stun the veno most of the time they have a charm so unless you can oneshot there's no point in even trying.

Bondmystic - Heavens Tear

Hi everyone,

I have to say I agree with Sejhia wholeheartedly. Venomancers are a lovely class to play with. I often see pets tanking along side a Barbarian, and it works really well to everyones benefit. Venomancers do have it easier when it comes to soloing, however they also have drawbacks like every other class in the game.

Like Sejhia I play a Wizard, I enjoy this class the most and play a form of it in every game I can. There is usually one class that is more desired than another for something only they can do. Usually it's the healing or tanking class because they are seen as the essentials or can solo more effectively than others, here it happens to be the Venomancer. Yes, they can solo rather effectively. They cannot however do the most damage, heal a team, or tank extremely difficult bosses alone (I'm talking the ones that take 2-3 Venomancers healing the pet to keep it alive). Their ability to solo is limited to a reasonable level and comes at a cost. They are as much a part of the game as any other class, and I wouldn't want them gone just as much as I wouldn't want any other class gone.

The only issue here is whether flesh ream is bugged on the Phoenix in PvP. I'm not a PW developer so I can't answer this, I'm also assuming that nobody here can really since the GMs don't make the patches and probably weren't part of the design team. If it is bugged then it should be fixed, if it isn't then that's the way it was intended and is just part of the game. Maybe submit a support ticket if you feel it is bugged and affecting you badly somehow? I'm assuming that's the only way to contact the developers (and consequently the patch makers), not much else we can do.

That's all.

Bondmystic

Reikara - Heavens Tear

The smartest people I know, other classes who are not venos, saved up for a herc and got their veno alt to 60. Why? farm money. Not that they felt they had to switch to veno as their main but they put the same 200$ in to gaining more from it that we did.

Instead of running to the forums and posting on these QQ threads about it, as we speak those blademasters/archers/wizards/Barbs/clerics are farming some hardcore money. Oh noes!

Chaotiic - Lost City

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Bleed is bugged. I wish they would fix it. That would at least end some of the Veno Hatred. Of course, there will always be something else. I'm so sick of these people QQ because they didn't roll the class designed for soloing the game, and are all pissed off about veno's doing what they were designed to do. Pretty pathetic and stupid.

~S

Saitada we have no problem with the veno class and if the bleed is ever fixed we would all get off ur backs. The only reason other aspects of a veno are mentioned is because venos say things like "well i cant get into a pt so thats not fair" or "herc costs soo much money" so we have to mention ur are the most called upon class for hh/fbs and u make money the easiest out of all the classes.

There is no hate against venos it is against the pvp imbalance many of us dont care if u are the best in pve but when u suddenly become unkillable gods of pvp its not fun. Do u know wat its like going into a pvp battle with balanced squads and fighting evenly having fun then 3 venos from the other guild drop in and take out half ur force in 5 seconds? Do u get that u can even kill those venos as they just run away sending their phoenix back to attack and kill u? Is it fair that they are the only class that can kill people without ever having to stop moving.

I personally like venos but they arent the class for me and i dont like the fact that as soon as one with a phoenix drops in pvp ends as the side without dies or runs to safe. I dont envy u guys or i would have rolled a veno and many of the player who post have played other versions where phoenix was implemented so know u could get it eventually here. However at the time they released it the server was/is too young to make a phoenix seem normal people have to have +9 hh99 gears with 8k+ hp to deal with it and that wont happen for up to a year. In the mean time we all have to put up with getting destroyed by phoenix on a regular basis without getting a chance to fight back. Forums is a nice place to vent ur anger at the 10 dolls u just lost to a veno who spent the whole fight running away. The hate is not directed so much at ur class as it is at ur pet and its bugged skill.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Dew of god's protection, absorb 3000 damage over 30 seconds. Hit it before the pheonix gets you.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

Saitada we have no problem with the veno class and if the bleed is ever fixed we would all get off ur backs. The only reason other aspects of a veno are mentioned is because venos say things like "well i cant get into a pt so thats not fair" or "herc costs soo much money" so we have to mention ur are the most called upon class for hh/fbs and u make money the easiest out of all the classes.

There is no hate against venos it is against the pvp imbalance many of us dont care if u are the best in pve but when u suddenly become unkillable gods of pvp its not fun. Do u know wat its like going into a pvp battle with balanced squads and fighting evenly having fun then 3 venos from the other guild drop in and take out half ur force in 5 seconds? Do u get that u can even kill those venos as they just run away sending their phoenix back to attack and kill u? Is it fair that they are the only class that can kill people without ever having to stop moving.

I personally like venos but they arent the class for me and i dont like the fact that as soon as one with a phoenix drops in pvp ends as the side without dies or runs to safe. I dont envy u guys or i would have rolled a veno and many of the player who post have played other versions where phoenix was implemented so know u could get it eventually here. However at the time they released it the server was/is too young to make a phoenix seem normal people have to have +9 hh99 gears with 8k+ hp to deal with it and that wont happen for up to a year. In the mean time we all have to put up with getting destroyed by phoenix on a regular basis without getting a chance to fight back. Forums is a nice place to vent ur anger at the 10 dolls u just lost to a veno who spent the whole fight running away. The hate is not directed so much at ur class as it is at ur pet and its bugged skill.

LOL welllll not quite true about the haters. Look closely at Chipsing1234's posts, as well as a very small vocal few who spam the forums with veno hate threads. While I agree with you that some of the hate is caused by that damned flesh ream, read his posts. it's all QQ about the games only class designed to be a soloing class, soloing. Soloing TT's Soloing FB's Soloing normal mobs, etc. Hell you'd think the way he cries that we could solo god!

But back to your post. Yeah I've seen the Veno Nix squads in TW. Been in one, and on the receiving end of one. Not fun at all. Sadly though, I think that even if they fixed Flesh Ream, there will still be people screaming about the Nix because it's as strong as it is.

But then again, as in all games i've played with a pet class, there are always gonna be people screaming how unfair they are etc. One of the lamest arguments I ever saw against a pet class by someone who ran a non-pet class was "it's not fair they can have pets fight with them, I want a pet to fight with me!"

The funny thing is... the dude was serious. He was a Warrior class (Tank type, much like how a barb functions) and was screaming hissyphyt mad he couldn't have a pet. FILLED the forums for almost 2 months with vitriol over his not being able to have a pet fight for him. He ended up getting banned or quit, not sure which.

The dude I mentioned above (chipsing1234) has the same mentality. Arguments have shattered his suppositions based off playing a veno to lvl 20 and then "observing" the class yet he rabidly sticks to his hatred for veno's. Personally, I think he is just **** sore after some veno he pissed off paid him back with interest.

And the best part is, he does all this hate, hiding behind an alt, instead of having a set and posting with his main.

~S

bunnyhunny

honestly i wouldnt want to party with people 50% of the time. I notice my pets only get xp when i do the most dmg on a mob.. which is lame. If i always did fbs and i always partied with groups of people.. my pets will always never lvl. But i have 9 pets so.. maybe i have too much to care for.

I have played about 15 different MMOs and there is one common recurrence in all the forums. Any summoner class is hated on and wanting to be nerfed by every other class. Its common to see them call a summoner overpowered in any game. This game has the most balanced summoner class i'v ever seen.. we are just paper behind our pets, it doesnt take long to kill us.

The_Wall - Heavens Tear

RAWR! I'm a tiger

Granrey - Sanctuary

I guess because I play PVE server and do not do PK is that I have no hard feelings towards venos.

Anyway, the best friend you can find in the game as BM are VENOS.

As BM I get very litle substancial/fun help from other classes (EXCEPT FB). I like to play with every class but these are the cons:

Archers: quick killers but boring to squad with. It is a bit annoying as they move the mob from position very often. If the archer does not move the mob and let you start killing the mob, it's fun. Otherwise, you will be jumping from dead mob to dead mob and do nothing else, since the archers kill really quick.

Barbs: take too long to make a kill. Seriously, you might not noticed you are being helped. Unless, you let them take the punishement while you do the kills (to save on pots and repairs). However, it's not fare to do that since barbs have to spend a lot in repairs.

Cleric: these dudes pretty much will be healing you and that's it. If your diamond sutra is good enough to keep you healed, that is the same fun as playing with a cleric. In other words, you are still playing alone.

Wizards: These are good to play with, I have done very few squads but no compleints.

Venos are good to squad with as BM. Since, they tank, kill and multitask.

Please, stop the hate and play with everybody. I play with every class even though I'd prefer to play more often with others.

Cyanea - Lost City

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

Do u know wat its like going into a pvp battle with balanced squads and fighting evenly having fun then 3 venos from the other guild drop in and take out half ur force in 5 seconds?

I really have no idea, but if three of you used aim low (or aoe stun?) on three phoenixes, maybe some of you could use frost arrow (or whatever) on three venos before your five seconds were up?

Andiano - Lost City

u though some1 will want 6x Veno for HH1-1? >>>> u would be just useless
and they will dont want u in fbs if they dont know u much. Im EA (more useless prof in fbs) and i've been kicked from 3/1xx fbs >> not much huh?
1st they needed a tank
2nd they wanted a higher lv
3rd noob says he invites only lv85+ for his fb51 >>

if u want free fb.. enter the FB_HELP channel and dont minimalize it.. just have it opened and wait till some1 will say word: fb b:sin

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

^ totally useless incoherent post and a definitely not needed bump,

Wtf is HH? This isnt MY-EN lol. we call it TT here.

tatakairyu

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Dew of god's protection, absorb 3000 damage over 30 seconds. Hit it before the pheonix gets you.

Then? We run to a safe zone?

StellarAshes - Heavens Tear

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Dew of god's protection, absorb 3000 damage over 30 seconds. Hit it before the pheonix gets you.

That will last through only 2-3 ticks, assuming it works. If it works like Winged Shell, it won't reduce DoT. You could suggest the remedy that gets rid of negative conditions, but bleed can be reapplied within a few seconds and that remedy has a cooldown of at least 30 seconds.

I think Veno is, overall, balanced, with the sole exception of bleed in PvP. Seeing a heavy armor Veno running around with +120% physical def while the pet mauls non-barb characters down in a few seconds is just disgusting.

Isala - Sanctuary

tatakairyu wrote: »

Then? We run to a safe zone?

That, or slap the veno upside the head. Depends on the veno. One of the babies who can only PK using their pet will die in a few seconds, ending the threat of the pet for you.

And yes, let's face it. There are a lot of those useless ones out there. Not insulting anyone who can seriously play a veno, but there are a lot more venos that can't do anything for themselves than there are those who can fight a serious battle.

Chaotiic - Lost City

Pk pots of any kind do not work on bleed.

I have no problems with venos in pvp or with them soloing. Simple solution is get some friends and party with them. Party>>solo.

Only problem is pvp. All these quick fixes people come up with in future try them before u come on the forums and talk about what u dont know.

Envy - Lost City

Q____________________________Q

Solandri - Heavens Tear

StellarAshes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Dew of god's protection, absorb 3000 damage over 30 seconds. Hit it before the pheonix gets you.

That will last through only 2-3 ticks, assuming it works. If it works like Winged Shell, it won't reduce DoT. You could suggest the remedy that gets rid of negative conditions, but bleed can be reapplied within a few seconds and that remedy has a cooldown of at least 30 seconds.

Pet flesh ream (bleed) has a cooldown timer of 15 seconds.

It's the barbarian flesh ream (bleed) that has a cooldown timer of 3 sec (though it costs chi).

Jacim - Heavens Tear

Venos are a perfectly fine class if you know how to play them. The issue is many people who don't ask around or do trial and error end up doing the same things over and over.

I know plenty of Venos who can level a pet to 70 in the matter of a few hours (I won't give away that secret but plenty of Heaven's Tear venos know it).

My only gripe about Venos is the bugged flesh ream on Phoenix. There is a genuine bug in the design of Phoenix that gives them PvE damage in a PvP context. Hercules do not have that bug and are therefore not overpowered.

That pretty much sums up a Veno, they're the best solo class, they're essential for TTs and FBs at your own level, and again it's a matter of experimenting and not just doing what works decently.

Lessie - Lost City

Jacim - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know plenty of Venos who can level a pet to 70 in the matter of a few hours (I won't give away that secret but plenty of Heaven's Tear venos know it).

Cube of fate room # 3 is no secret.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Jacim - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My only gripe about Venos is the bugged flesh ream on Phoenix. There is a genuine bug in the design of Phoenix that gives them PvE damage in a PvP context. Hercules do not have that bug and are therefore not overpowered.

Actually the bug is ANY pet with Flesh Ream. Not just the Pheonix. However the Pheonix does have very high attack power. Since Flesh Reams ticks are based of the pets attack power, it does tend to feel even worse when coming from a Pheonix vs. coming from a Petite Sawfly or a Kowlin (both with high attack power, but still signifigantly lower then the Pheonix). Truthfully, I have no problem with the Pheonix's high attack power, thats the nature of the legendary beast. My only point is with when you say the bug is in the design of the pheonix, when the bug is actually in any pet with flesh ream. I dont believe Pheonix even come with Flesh Ream at birth (i may be wrong) but rather Veno's tend to give the Pheonix Flesh Ream to utilize the strength of this bug on a high attack power pet.

p.s. I am not a Veno hater nor do i have any desire to nerf the Veno. I do however believe the flesh ream bug should be fixed.

Divine_Demon - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

Whiners! Why must you pissy PVPerstry to ruin something that isnt even broken? Whining and b****ing that theyre "overpowered" using the only reason of a bug in pvp is outright stupid.

1. Nobody wants to party us 85% of the time. I cant tell you how many times Ive been rejected out of FB parties, boss parties, TT etc. It frikken sucks! We ALWAYS have to solo if we want to level.

2. Leveling these pets people whine that give us an unfair advantage is a horrendous affair that makes you want to stab your eyes out.
We have little to -no- physical defense with arcane builds, in which if we did not have that golem, we'd be fried faster than a donut in hot oil

3.Most of our spells suck. Look at wizards, clerics, etc. Their magic far out damages ours, and they have a way bigger selection of ones they can use. If you have ever played a veno you'd know you only use ironwood and venomous, your initiate and level 8 skill, throughout nearly the entire game.

-blazing and frost scarab: lousy DoT over 30 seconds, or another that costs a spark to have a -chance- for dot? bull ****

-lucky scarab: lovely skill but not used often outside the need for a quick stun. 12s is a pretttyyy long cooldown.

-noxious gas: also good skill... but most unexperienced venos dont know how to keep aggro on their pet for multiple mobs, end up stealing aggro, and killing themselves with it lol.

-parasitic nova: lol 2 sparks for an aoe that your basic skills out damage? the stun is nice, but. 2 sparks. ouch.

Yeah, also, theyre all wood. wood wood wood wood. Not fire, earth, water etc, we're stuck using wood spells on evvvverrryyyythhinnngggg.

4.our hp mods blow especially with vit points added on.

before you whine on these forums that we're broken... play one and see.

ironwood-venomous-venomous-heal pet/ironwood/venomous depending on the situation. rinse and repeat. Its knda gimped . Not everyone has 20m or 200$ to buy a phoenix kthnx so dont ruin my little fun i still manage to have on a veno. much love

PS: to those who TL:DR me, go die

really? i dont accept any invites from noone and my venom aka money maker gets loads of invites

Sejhia - Heavens Tear

So I go to harsh lands and roll a veno. All I can say so far is wow. In comparison to playing a wizard, a veno is a complete breeze. Not having to rest or use pots means I am blowing through quest at a speed I could never achieve using my wizard unless I crafted it nice gears and apoc mana items.

Im not adding fuel to the venos are op fire since as I already stated I believe the crux of the matter lies in a skill fix as opposed to a class nerf but boy o boy do venos have it easy. Heck, not even a BM I rolled on lost can compare to this thing. I use the fox form veno though but still nothing gives me any problems whatsoever.

I have to say here that I agree with a post I read in one of these threads. Nothing is wrong with the veno or its skills but plenty is wrong with those pets. So much for my previous statement concerning "the crux of the matter"

but wait!

Before you accuse me of QQing, don't. Leave everything as is, this is precisely the class I need.

Only problem I have now is, how do I go back to enjoying playing my wizard knowing I either have to rest often or buy/manufacture mp pots or worse yet become reliant on heiros!

down with all the veno hate, venos ftw.

Note to developers, Wizards need a most definite boost. I've been to the other side and ...... I don't want to come back.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

wizards are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo rare at my level

i have only seen 12 wizzies lv 65+ out of all the people i have walked by