If we are carebears what are lost city players?

Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear

It's not really that PvP based on PvE server, well that's quite freaking obvious. Loss of items discourages people to PK so most stuff is PvE based. On PvP server however you can't avoid PK and PK is encouraged through the chance to gain items dropped from fallen foes. This game has a good mix of PvE and PvP, though not as refined as I'd like it to be it offers a great level of gameplay and is quite visually appealing. Though the PvP doesn't compare to "Certain game with level 20 cap" and PvE is average at higher levels.

Hong - Heavens Tear

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That is simply not true. In PvP, skill is the determining factor. In PW (as is most MMOs), level and gear are the determining factors. In territory wars, that is further diluted as the side with higher numbers as well as the previous two factors decides the battle 90% of the time. I will give it that 10% of the time, when a faction pulls out some nice tactics, those factors are less important. Class balance is also a big joke in this game.

If you want real PvP, there are a handful of really good FPS's out there. If you want MMO PvP, there are only a couple - not naming them for the rules of the board, but I can tell you PW is not on that list (neither is that really big one everyone keeps throwing around). PW is, however, a pretty fun PvE game with some relatively fun PvP thrown in. Just the way I like it (I get my serious PvP kicks in a few FPS games I play).

PvP can be in various ways but I'm talking about MMORPG PvP. FPS and RPG is extremely different and RPG PvP will always require gears and level. So yes, it's a PvP based game. The reason why I said it's a PvP based game is simply level, get gears and PvP/TW as the final content. I mean, it's pretty simple to understand that.

Guild Wars is one of the game that is extremely PvP/GvG based. Your logic fails comparing FPS with MMORPG. Perfect World is obviously unbalance, you should have realized that from watching one video.

Simply, your just not a decent player to even understand how MMORPG works.

redanjin

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

tl;dr, way too much whining. If you don't think Lost City is a decent PVP server then either you haven't played it or you need to revise your definiton of PVP. Kthnx.

Who's whining? Do you see me crying that I can't get to Arch to buy my pots? Do you see me crying that those evil high level PKs keep ganking me? No, you don't. And you don't because not once has the PvP in this game prevented me from doing anything I want.

Don't mistake the idea "This game's PvP sucks" for "I can't handle it". You morons who responded to my post by saying I was whining or couldn't handle it obviously need to take English lessons, because you reading english = fail.

My whole point is its silly for you to get so up in arms about LC being a tough place to play compared to Sanc or HT because there are basically the exact same. Hell, if you didn't want to fight, just run away, there are so many towns and safe zones you could amost always get to one before the enemy could kill you. I was flying towards Death Valley last night, flew over what looked like two buildings with one NPC and saw "Entering Safe Zone" "Leaving Safe Zone". How quaint, safe zones.

Last night I was grinding with two other players. A very high level comes by on a cash shop mount and says, 'The wizard is a very good player, you other two suck' and rides off. I guess he took the 2.5 seconds to id each of us. And his comment give evidence to why this game is terrible for PvP.

Its all about your gear. He could know by iding my gear I sucked, which means its gear and not skill, that makes this game go. And since I'm in no danger of losing any gear, (since in this hardcore world nothing ever drops) I guess I'll be L33t forever!

Anyway, bring out the flamethrowers, doesn't change the fact this game is not a PvP game.

Later, see you all in Darkfall. Well, probably not. Good luck.

Red Anjin

Shonindayo - Lost City

He speaks truth. Comparing MMORPG PvP to FPS PvP is ridiculous.


That being said, this IS a pvp based game. PW-MY never even had PvE servers, and this is the only existing version with a PVE option. PW is and will remain a PVP based game. TW pretty much runs the show if you haven't noticed.

No offense, but the PvE content is very very lacking. That is the main reason I went from Heavens Tear to Lost City. I realized that without pk, the end game would suck terribly. And lo and behold, im having much more fun over here than I ever did over there.

As said above, gear and levels (although not so in GW) will always play a factor in pvp. MMO pvp has been based on gear for as long as i can remember. Skill is obviously a major factor in games other than coughWoWcough, so really I dont understand how you can say this is not a pvp based game. I find your understanding of pvp to be very shallow.


I find it hilarious that ppl get in such fits because of the nickname "carebear". That term has existed long long long before PW, why are we all having fits? The fact that it even spawned its own thread is more ridiculous. Its jest, please, stop taking it so seriously. Everything is serious business these days geez.

Tres - Lost City

Red you come off as a god damn cant make a generalization but rofl you wouldn't last two days on any of the other versions of this game. Kill on Sights are serious business. go play Oracle and tick WL off i guarantee they have you quit the game crying in a few days b:thanks

Mua - Lost City

redanjin wrote: »

Who's whining? Do you see me crying that I can't get to Arch to buy my pots? Do you see me crying that those evil high level PKs keep ganking me? No, you don't. And you don't because not once has the PvP in this game prevented me from doing anything I want.

Don't mistake the idea "This game's PvP sucks" for "I can't handle it". You morons who responded to my post by saying I was whining or couldn't handle it obviously need to take English lessons, because you reading english = fail.

My whole point is its silly for you to get so up in arms about LC being a tough place to play compared to Sanc or HT because there are basically the exact same. Hell, if you didn't want to fight, just run away, there are so many towns and safe zones you could amost always get to one before the enemy could kill you. I was flying towards Death Valley last night, flew over what looked like two buildings with one NPC and saw "Entering Safe Zone" "Leaving Safe Zone". How quaint, safe zones.

Last night I was grinding with two other players. A very high level comes by on a cash shop mount and says, 'The wizard is a very good player, you other two suck' and rides off. I guess he took the 2.5 seconds to id each of us. And his comment give evidence to why this game is terrible for PvP.

Its all about your gear. He could know by iding my gear I sucked, which means its gear and not skill, that makes this game go. And since I'm in no danger of losing any gear, (since in this hardcore world nothing ever drops) I guess I'll be L33t forever!

Anyway, bring out the flamethrowers, doesn't change the fact this game is not a PvP game.

Later, see you all in Darkfall. Well, probably not. Good luck.

Red Anjin

If you'd like PVP to prevent you from doing something you want and make it difficult if not impossible to achieve anything then please go play Runescape, step into those pking areas and try to grind. You'll freaking love it.

The oversized part of the quote is exactly why idiots should know when to give up. You spoke of english lessons then made that mess of a sentence. You don't start a sentence with "and", not to mention the "his comment give evidence" ****. That doesn't even sound right, well done.

Back to the debate, Yes, he looked at your gear, OMG, that's so terrible, why can't they have a much harder system for sizing up enemies, like telling you their freaking level from one click. Clearly that is much better than having to check player info, examine all the gear and wait for the cooldown to do it again, 3 times.

Another person who QQs because gear can be protected, because apparently it's a good thing to spend ages farming HH for something only to drop it to one bored player looking for a fight.

Enjoy your Darkfall, Perfect World is a little more perfect without your silliness. b:bye

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Well to be honest, coming from AoC then WAR, the first's pvp being lackluster while the seconds was all about pvp, the pvp in PW is on a lower rung then even AoC, and AoC had nothing to do end game but pvp.

But it's a free to play game, so you get what you paid for. It's an amazing game and i'm having a lot of fun playing it, but lets be realistic now, compared to the pay to play games on the market who have dedicated devs working on every aspect constantly, where as PW has devs in china that will just bring out what they want when they want and they don't really care what you think about it because they'll always have costumers because it is FREE to play.

The PvP in korean games is pretty much just thrown in once everything else is done. There's very little tactic and skill involved, by very little i mean none at all. Point, click, dead is your basic pvp in these type of games. You don't use tactics, everyone pretty much one shots everyone else once they know what they're doing. Except for barbs b:chuckle

so really calling PW a PvP game...when compared to WAR...which IS a pvp mmorpg...is kind of funny. What content do they bring out for pvp? The new fashion every few weeks? The new mounts? Come on now, this is a pve game, a social network where we can play dressup, look pretty, meet some people, socialise, oh and do a little pve and pvp as well.

Sorry for the long post, but really now...call this what it is. An awesome dressup game. I love dressup games so i'm happy b:cute

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

yea cause you know.... TW is deffinetly not somethign PW does right for PvP...... nor the extremely well class balance..... and it deffinetly takes no skill to pk or pvp.. point click dead is NOT how it works. i try to click on a cleric or archer with demon/sage spark? im ****ed. suprise suprise i kite people when they plume shield or spark, you mess up once in pvp and ur dead. real pvp takes precision and timing.

Skyannie - Lost City

Sticky has a point here, there IS strategy behind the PvP here, and it's sad if you can't see it. It's not the same to fight a buffed WB than an unbuffed one, but it's more so noticeable when you fight a debuffed one, see where I'm going with this? Then again, I don't assume you've had much experience on PvP or TW, eh, Fausti?

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »

Sticky has a point here, there IS strategy behind the PvP here, and it's sad if you can't see it. It's not the same to fight a buffed WB than an unbuffed one, but it's more so noticeable when you fight a debuffed one, see where I'm going with this? Then again, I don't assume you've had much experience on PvP or TW, eh, Fausti?

Faustinna is on the right track with what I was talking about. No one is saying the PvP in this game sucks, or has no tactics to it what-so-ever. However, my point is the game is not based on PvP with a little PvE thrown in, it is the other way around.

The entire goal of this game is grinding, just like "most other MMOs" (note the quote from my original post - I never said "all MMOs"). The goal is to reach the highest level and get the best gear. The PvP is there to break up the grind. PvP servers exist for that purpose, so that grinding is a little more exciting. As I mentioned earlier, TW is about the best thing PW has going for it, and even then, it's mostly determined by numbers than skill (again, note I said "mostly" and not "entirely").

My comparison to FPSs wasn't one of game type, but rather of what it means to be "PvP-based." I could have just as easily used chess, pong, or even football as examples. Competitive games all rely on balance and fairness - evening the playing field for all so that skill alone determines the outcome. That is the point. While difficult to do with an MMO (or RPG in general), it is not impossible, which is why I said that there are a couple that have done so (GW being a great example of one).

I'll say it again: The focus of PW is the grind (PvE), with PvP to break up the grind.

Just because a cheeseburger has bacon, lettuce, and tomatoes, it don't make it a BLT; it's still a cheeseburger.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

no, lol, its not PvE oriented lol, why do you think they implemnted 79/100 skillls? that are extremely diffucult to get? and oh, hey, they are ALL pvp oriented. you notice how 80% of the sage/demon skills get modded with PvP in mind? yea.... deffinetly not meant as PvE since you have dailies.... if you think PvP has no stragety let me give u some examples...


1. me vs 89+ cleric.... these are the things going through my mind..
first, i need to get in and stun before she sees me, so i can onslaught and then arm for the kill. if stun fails i need to get ready to sunder, because he will sleep me, debuff me , spark and get damn near one hitting me. if i get out of sleep alive, onslaught, penetrate armour, stun, bleed, hammer, stun, penetrate armour, onslaught etc etc... and this senario is ONLY for when i suprise the cleric....

2. me vs archer 80+
this is usually easy, even if they know im coming, ive got myself fully buffed with BB on, first thing i do is onslaught to decrease their evasion, stun, penetrate armour and arm for the kill. if i miss arm and hes out of stun, hes most likely plume shielded, and is kiting, once hes got about 1 second of distance, he will stun, kite some more, and usually use aim low, at this point im ****ed if he string crits me, when i get out of aim low, this is where MY unique tactic comes in, hes most like still got plume shield on him so i will kite him... YES as a barb i will kite him... when i see his plume shield runs out i will tiger and jump back to him, im stunned now, but im back to full hp, after the stun, i slow, outa tiger, onslaught, stun penetrate etc.....


this game is very PvP oriented, please dont say its not, if you think its not, youve neved pk/pvped with anyone with any remote amount of talent.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

no, lol, its not PvE oriented lol, why do you think they implemnted 79/100 skillls? that are extremely diffucult to get?

So, educate me. These skills are only attainable through PvP? Are they even remotely attainable through PvP? If so, I take back what I said.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and oh, hey, they are ALL pvp oriented. you notice how 80% of the sage/demon skills get modded with PvP in mind?

Really? You mean the sage/demon skills are only useable/useful in PvP? You can't use them at all in PvE? If so, I take back what I said.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yea.... deffinetly not meant as PvE since you have dailies....

Daily PvP events? Really? Where? I mean, there's an arena that doesn't even work, there's weekly TW, and there's the once-a-week event with the chests (whatever it's called, I forget). Is there daily PvP quests I'm not aware of?

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if you think PvP has no stragety let me give u some examples...

I don't need any examples, since I never said "PvP has no strategy." Please re-read my post. Specifically:

Me wrote:

Competitive games all rely on balance and fairness - evening the playing field for all so that skill alone determines the outcome.

That is the substance of my point.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

this game is very PvP oriented, please dont say its not, if you think its not, youve neved pk/pvped with anyone with any remote amount of talent.

Ad hominem. Don't argue me, argue my points. I am merely stating my observations. If I am incorrect at any point with the facts I lay out, please correct me. If not, then give me some rational reasons why I am wrong.

Here is my point in a clear example...

If two people of equal skill 1v1 each other in PW and either:
a) One has much better gear,
b) One has a much higher level,
c) Their classes differ, or
d) all of the above
I can guarantee an unfair fight. How possible do you think this is in random PKing? How possible do you think this is in TW(with changes in the numbers, say 40v40)? Not possible? Very Possible? Happens all the time?

If most of the battles are off-balance due to any of the above factors, how can the PvP said to have any value apart from entertainment? It doesn't take experience in PvP "with anyone with any remote amount of talent" to figure this out. You've had some adrenaline-pumping experiences, that's good! That's what I'm talking about, and why I still play. It can be fun, and you can overcome in many situations with good strategy, as long as your opponent is of near equal power and/or less strategic. But, evenly matched, it all comes down to thousands of factors that overall imbalance the PvP in this game.

g972

How can you even attempt to say this game is PvE oriented? Everything in this game is simply tank and spank. That isn't PvE oriented. If you want PvE, go play WoW or EQ where the PvE actually requires at least minimal coordination.

The high level skills are almost all PvP focused. Trying to say that "OMG THEY CAN BE USED IN PVE" is just a cop out because you know that they are PvP focused and there's no argument against it. Grinding isn't PvE oriented, its just grinding. Like Lineage II, its a grindfest with no unique PvE whatsoever, and its not PvE oriented simply because its a long grind.

Concerning dailies, you clearly didn't understand his meaning. The game obviously is NOT PvE oriented because you have PvE dailies that make you level faster. So even if you're trying to say grinding makes a game PvE oriented, it clearly isn't.

A game that skill alone determines the winner? No such game exists. Its even arguable that skill is hardly even required to play a game. WoW requires far more individual skill and team coordination than PW, and even that isn't saying much because the skillcap is so low even there. No successful game will ever make it where every class has an exact even chance (even if this were somehow miraculously possible) against every other class. That would be incredibly stupid.

Complaining that different classes, different gear, and different levels affects PvP clearly shows you have no understanding of balance, or any real MMO experience. If class wasn't an advantage, gear wasn't an advantage, and level wasn't an advantage, what are you doing? Why not make a game where there is no leveling, no gear grinding, and only 1 class? That's basically what you're asking for. The balance in PW is actually decent compared to most games out there. Anyone who whines about balance in a game like this is one of those immature kids who wants their character to be super powered and 1-shot everyone else.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

g972 wrote: »

How can you even attempt to say this game is PvE oriented? Everything in this game is simply tank and spank. That isn't PvE oriented. If you want PvE, go play WoW or EQ where the PvE actually requires at least minimal coordination.

The high level skills are almost all PvP focused. Trying to say that "OMG THEY CAN BE USED IN PVE" is just a cop out because you know that they are PvP focused and there's no argument against it. Grinding isn't PvE oriented, its just grinding. Like Lineage II, its a grindfest with no unique PvE whatsoever, and its not PvE oriented simply because its a long grind.

Concerning dailies, you clearly didn't understand his meaning. The game obviously is NOT PvE oriented because you have PvE dailies that make you level faster. So even if you're trying to say grinding makes a game PvE oriented, it clearly isn't.

A game that skill alone determines the winner? No such game exists. Its even arguable that skill is hardly even required to play a game. WoW requires far more individual skill and team coordination than PW, and even that isn't saying much because the skillcap is so low even there. No successful game will ever make it where every class has an exact even chance (even if this were somehow miraculously possible) against every other class. That would be incredibly stupid.

Complaining that different classes, different gear, and different levels affects PvP clearly shows you have no understanding of balance, or any real MMO experience. If class wasn't an advantage, gear wasn't an advantage, and level wasn't an advantage, what are you doing? Why not make a game where there is no leveling, no gear grinding, and only 1 class? That's basically what you're asking for. The balance in PW is actually decent compared to most games out there. Anyone who whines about balance in a game like this is one of those immature kids who wants their character to be super powered and 1-shot everyone else.

QFT you stole the words right outa my mouth. PW does so many things right. both in the PvP and PvE aspects, for example, i can think of .......... lets see........ sro,KO,KAL,Tantra. all great F2P games, but PvP becomes incredibly unbalanced endgame, simply because gears and skills amplify damage so high you one hit everyone you come into contact with. In PW you dont one hit very many people your level without luck. PW is very PvP oriented, the 79/100 skills you get through constant farming of fb and TT, go ask anyone 80+ this question

Do you get your 79/100 skills for PvE? or PvP?
100% will answer PvP.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

g972 wrote: »

How can you even attempt to say this game is PvE oriented? Everything in this game is simply tank and spank. That isn't PvE oriented. If you want PvE, go play WoW or EQ where the PvE actually requires at least minimal coordination.

So, leveling and gear that can only be obtained through PvE, and yet a requirement for any competent amount of PvP doesn't clue you off to which is more important and where the focus is? The fact that the PvE isn't terribly challenging does not change that at all. That just means it isn't challenging.

g972 wrote: »

The high level skills are almost all PvP focused. Trying to say that "OMG THEY CAN BE USED IN PVE" is just a cop out because you know that they are PvP focused and there's no argument against it.

No, I don't know that. Give me a skill or two, and follow it with an explanation of why that skill is incredibly useful in PvP, but hardly useful at all in PvE. My argument wasn't "OMG THEY CAN BE USED IN PVE," it was more "OMG THEY CAN BE USED IN PVP AS WELL." But seriously, I looked over a few of those skills, and they all seem pretty darn useful in PvE, and I can see their use in PvP. I, however, cannot see how they were "PvP focused."

g972 wrote: »

Grinding isn't PvE oriented, its just grinding. Like Lineage II, its a grindfest with no unique PvE whatsoever, and its not PvE oriented simply because its a long grind.

So, if grinding isn't PvE (Player versus Environment = killing NPCs and questing), then what is it? Oh, then you say "unique PvE," so what's that? The questing part? Aren't the quests in PW 90% grinding (kill xx monsters)? Aren't dungeons grinding? You think you can remain competitive on dailies alone?

g972 wrote: »

Concerning dailies, you clearly didn't understand his meaning. The game obviously is NOT PvE oriented because you have PvE dailies that make you level faster. So even if you're trying to say grinding makes a game PvE oriented, it clearly isn't.

Oh, right, so doing daily quests (again, quests = PvE) in order to level is clearly PvP oriented. I'm not saying that at all, anyway. In this game, that is pretty much the case, but it doesn't have to be. Either way, see above ("You think you can remain competitive on dailies alone?").

g972 wrote: »

A game that skill alone determines the winner? No such game exists.

Really? Perhaps no such video game exists, but only because of technological set-backs (lag and such). But aside from that, there are plenty of games where everyone has an equal chance when directly competing. That is why I used the example of FPSs, but sports, racing, fighting, and even a handful of RPGs (GW, for example) are all about skill alone. Some of them are 1v1 or 1vAll, but the more successful ones are team-based. That's beside the point since PW is a far cry from "skill alone determines the winner."

g972 wrote: »

Its even arguable that skill is hardly even required to play a game.

It's not, anyone can play. It is required to win in the more balanced competitive games.

g972 wrote: »

WoW requires far more individual skill and team coordination than PW, and even that isn't saying much because the skillcap is so low even there. No successful game will ever make it where every class has an exact even chance (even if this were somehow miraculously possible) against every other class. That would be incredibly stupid.

In any game that relies on 1v1 scenarios, it would be incredibly stupid to NOT attempt balance among all classes. In team-oriented PvP games, you want a great variation among classes. PW isn't team-oriented except in TW, where I mention is the one area where strategy really comes in to play. If any PvP is "serious business" in PW, it's TW, but it still ain't all that.

g972 wrote: »

If class wasn't an advantage, gear wasn't an advantage, and level wasn't an advantage, what are you doing?

What am I doing? Not grinding! Oh wait, but I thought "its not PvE oriented simply because its a long grind?" So, what you're saying is, without the grind, it can still be PvE-oriented, and without the grind, gear and level won't be an advantage, thus PvP will be balanced? Where's the problem? I'm in agreement with you, that sounds like an awesome game!

g972 wrote: »

Why not make a game where there is no leveling, no gear grinding, and only 1 class? That's basically what you're asking for.

Not at all what I'm asking for. What I'm asking for is a game like PW, where PvP doesn't matter (see: no rewards except in TW, balance is a joke), and thus just a fun alternative to break up the monotonous grind. Is that so hard? Apparently not, seems I got it.

g972 wrote: »

The balance in PW is actually decent compared to most games out there. Anyone who whines about balance in a game like this is one of those immature kids who wants their character to be super powered and 1-shot everyone else.

I'm not whining about balance, so I guess that there pigeon-hole ain't me! I'm simply stating my observations, as I mentioned earlier. I'm open-minded, though. Still waiting for a reasoned response that explains to me why PvP in PW should be taken "seriously."

g972

You'll never get a "reasoned response" because you're a blind child who refuses to see the obvious. There's only 1 end game in PW. TWs. That's PvP. PKing etc. is to help pass the time when you're grinding, in order to perform better at TWs. The fact that you have to level doesn't make the game about PvE. It just means you need to level to reach the end game objective, TWs.

The fact you "cannot see how they were PvP focused" is exactly the problem. Adding in "AS WELL" doesn't change the meaning of what I posted (since those words were implied in my original statement), but you clearly aren't able to grasp these things, so my explaining it is pointless. You obviously have no idea what balance is, you obviously have no MMO experience, and you're obviously not qualified to judge.

Grinding is grinding is grinding. Simply because you have to do something to reach a goal, doesn't make the path to your goal the main focus. Quite the opposite. PvE is the path to your ultimate goal, PvP. There's no other reason to level. You level cap and then what? You PvP. Its really quite simple.

Yes, doing dailies to level clearly means it is NOT PvE oriented. If you have ways to avoid it, clearly thats not the main focus. Leveling, gearing up, as I said, is to reach the end game. There's only 1 end game. PvP.

GW takes skill = lol. Every other game you mentioned has nothing to do with MMOs and its incredibly **** to even mention them in this discussion, but after just reading two of your posts I've already come to expect that. Half of your "arguments" are about the wording of my post. If you can't understand the meaning of what I'm saying, well, that just makes my responses all the more meaningless.

I'm too lazy to finish responding to the rest of your post. Its already pretty obvious what I'm dealing with, so there's no point anyway. If you're too stupid to realize what the end game of this game is, there's nothing left to say.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

I shall bow out, as well. Turning my attention to stickygreen's sig, I understand the mistake I made. It is difficult to get into any kind of discussion with someone who refuses to read and understand my response.

Good day! b:bye

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

i can give u a couple skills that are completely useless in PvE but lifesavers in PvP. This game is both PvE and PvP oriented, does both aspects very well. idk why u made the comment "no reason to take PvP here seriously" i dont take PvP seriously at all, i mean i do whats needed to win, but i dont think i take it seriously, im messing around 90% of the time in PK. i do take TW very seriously though

g972

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If most of the battles are off-balance due to any of the above factors, how can the PvP said to have any value apart from entertainment? It doesn't take experience in PvP "with anyone with any remote amount of talent" to figure this out. You've had some adrenaline-pumping experiences, that's good! That's what I'm talking about, and why I still play. It can be fun, and you can overcome in many situations with good strategy, as long as your opponent is of near equal power and/or less strategic. But, evenly matched, it all comes down to thousands of factors that overall imbalance the PvP in this game.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not whining about balance, so I guess that there pigeon-hole ain't me! I'm simply stating my observations, as I mentioned earlier. I'm open-minded, though. Still waiting for a reasoned response that explains to me why PvP in PW should be taken "seriously."

You're whining that gear, class, and levels cause imbalance. There's really nothing left to discuss. People like you NEED to stick to PvE because you wouldn't even be able to perform in PvP. Of course, PvP is incredibly easily, especially in games like this, but anyway, you clearly aren't meant for it. Lineage II has a much longer grind, both experience and gear-wise than PW. And you would have to be some kind of mentally **** monkey to think L2 is PvE oriented.

I'll say it again, the path to end game is not the main focus. Once you understand this, maybe, MAYBE, you'll understand why PvE is not the focus. But your lacking intelligence will still be a limiting factor in your performance. Sorry, nothing I can do about that.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Meh, life is too short to quarrel about semantics. We can agree to disagree.

I see it as a matter of degrees - Games that are purely PvP (shooters, sports, racing, fighting, etc) -> Games that are based on PvP with some PvE - > Half-and-half's -> Games that are based on PvE with some PvP (PW goes here) -> Games that are purely PvE (puzzles, offline RPGs, adventure, everything else). You would probably put PW in the first category for some reason. I could compromise on the half-and-half, but I won't ever believe it.

I did look back through all the 79/100 skills, and I can see where a handful would be useful in PvP. However, I can also see how unbelievably useful they are in PvE, too. I will say it again - educate me. You really want to persuade me, instead of just insulting me, then explain how it is so 'obvious' that these skills, or any other skills for that matter, were designed purely with PvP in mind.

If there were high-end gear or skills only attainable through PvP, or even paultry XP/SP gained in PvP, I would totally agree that this game was PvP-focused. That simply isn't the case. Where's my motivation? Where's the necessity that comes with a PvP-oriented game?

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Ok we can put this to rest really easily everyone.

A game based on PvP allows you to level off of PvP (see WAR, FPS's with lvling system, etc). A PvE game forces you to lvl through PvE.

So, how much xp do you all get during the TW? Getting you to 9x+ from it? No i did not think so. You buy xp scrolls and grind. That's called a PvE game with "some" PvP elements.

Thank you b:victory

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

uhhhh no...... please stop comparing MMORPG's to MMOFPS. notice how RPG is different from FPS? or... wait here... R(role)P(playing)G(game) F(first)P(person)S(shooter). now that we have that established.... its not "some" PvP elements, endgame is ALL about PvP get to 89 and then come talk to me please. what happens when you hit 89 (100 for some) and you stop leveling because you have all the skills needed to own in PvP? ohhhh thats right... you go and ..... P(player)V(versus)P(player) (just making sure)

Wulph - Heavens Tear

mister2shoes wrote: »

Wow is a mediocre game (I am being VERY generous there). The quest/story lines lore and pve in general is horrible. The only thing they got right is that the the fighting mechanics are real smooth and responsive making for some fun kiting and anti kiting techniques. Which actually gave them a shot at making a really great pvp game. But as it stands their lack of creativity toward pvp and total lack of ability to even come close to class balance pretty much killed that. I mean CTF.... yeah that's original. I like CTF as much as the next guy when there is two teams with good strategy and skill and it would have made a great mini-pvp game. But not as the main form of pvp.

Oh wait I forgot about the 24 hour long Alterac Valley battles (back in the day) which made no real difference if you won or lost em, it gave the winning faction no real desire to actually come up with a winning strategy.zzzzz

I'm new here but from what I have seen so far the PVE is decent, better than any non p2p rpg I have played. The pvp looks like it's gonna be fun since winning a TW actually has enough benefit to it so that you have a good reason for strategy. Only thing I am a lil worried about is TWs look like they can get expensive. But hey they gotta make money to keep the servers up somehow.

All in all I say good job PWI looks like i may be hanging around for a long while.

Sorry this didn't have anything to do with "carebear" I just had to laugh at someone actually claiming WoW was hardcore. It's a dumbed down rpg to attract counter strike players.Using carebear is kinda wowish anyways that should give ya reason enough to not wanna use that term. Who wants to be labeled as wowish?b:laugh

im sorry but in a few things i do not agree here. for one i come from wow and well over 11mil subs is to much to consider it a lame game. but thats not why im responding. its more for what follows, about the quests and pve in general in wow being lame.

your wrong there and thats the main reason why lots of people play wow. the lore is well written and the quests are fun to read and do.
here im doing a quest to get some item fixed and the blacksmith i took it to sends me to get a book from someone. So i find that person and he refuses to give me the book, but will give it to me if i kill 40 of some random mob thats close to arch.
killing x mob or get y item has been in every game. Wow just makes the reason to do so very interesting while here im getting just go kill this and for little reason why. the quests here are quite shallow. but then it is a ftp so i cannot complain.
another example of poor writing in this game is when i had to find the tomb of the untamed hero, who was captured by the wing elves and tortured. at the end he bellows out Freeedom . comeon this is so damn braveheart. Anyone who saw the movie and see the poor reference will scream for justice.
I can go on but thats not the topic here.

like a few said the pve vs pvp servers is an old one. and it varies from game.
Eve: some will claim its a pvp intesive game, but its also a pve intensive game. and the richest players are in the pve enviorment. however they lack the fun where the pvp part is at.

Wow: you cannot call any server here a carebear server, infact the pve servers have the best pvpers. this is due to no griefing and players focus more in group fights ect. most of the best arena teams come from pve servers. pvp can be activated in many ways and lowbies can avoid the ganking part,, find players their lvl to challange. battles can be done in every town and infact in the pve servers more city battles are seen than in pvp servers.

pwi: im new to this game and i do like my pvp but it seems that the server im in is not like what im used to. while you can go to tw its not constant or a all day thing. im still in the process of finding which class i like best. as it is now i am getting a bit bored of the pve this game has due to the poor writing and execution of quests. this is leaning me to try out the pvp server since i do enjoy it.

now pvp in about every game has a few types of players.

the pvper: these people enjoy the player vs player enviorment. they enjoy the fact they can engage it at any time. they normally avoid anything that doesnt pose a threat to them and usually focus on what can be a potential and fun conflict.

the griefer: these are the players that bully the lowbies, thats how they find their fun, usually these tend to find things that ace to their advantage like a class that will be overpowered for lobies to counter (in pwi the archer) these players tend to suck hardcore vs a soso to good pvper, so they take thier anger on those they can kill with 1 shot.

the pver: These are the confused players on a pvp server, they come due to rl firends to the server, get melted , then complain about everyone on that said pvp server. truth is, they dont belong there.

for the pve servers:
the pve player: when on a pve server their way of fun is to progress with their friend in the pve enviorment. their chars are focused more for that also.

the griefers: These are use airheads who go to pve servers to kill quest mobs or bosses and steal kill, their only purpose is to aggravate the other players. because its a pve server they cannot get killed and can get away with their crimes. compared to griefers on a pvp server, these guys are the worse. atleast a griefer on a pvp server can get killed, but you cannot do nothing to these, they will mock you. ive already met a few of these on the server im in and it makes me want to go more to pvp due to it.

the pvper: pvpers in a pve enviorment are those who seek fast lvling and gearing up to get to their goal, they will get into pvp whenever the chance occurs for find ways to start it. (in wow its as simple as tagging yourself for it or attack a town) in pwi these are the ones who control territories. while in this game pvp is less than in a pvp server it seems to satisfy them

at the end you just cannot generalize a whole server for being one thing because your from a different type of server. if you noticed on any server youll find the same type of players only 1 will be larger than the other. pvp servers will have more pvp players than pve players in it. (pve players are easy to detect as they allow themselves to die in hopes they will be left alone) . Pve servers still have pvp players in it, they are just less then those who prefer to pve.

both pvp players and pve players have reasons to play the way they do, for them its fun.

its the griefers who i have a bone to throw at as these are the bullys of the mmo world. its because of them i im leaning to roll to the pvp server, just for the fact that atleast i know i can do somthing about it.

bobzilla21

I find PvP pointless in MMORPGs, it really all boils down to who has a higher level and who has the equips, stats, and skills that are suited for battling your opponent. And who has a lot of lag, that's always important.
There's not too much strategy, all builds will be good against some types of opponents and bad against others, so the only real strategy is deciding who you fight and who you avoid. Other than that, it's just clicking the right buttons.

On a side note, we've really gone off-topic, haven't we...

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

takes lots of skill to PvP .... all i see is low level people QQing about gears and classes every class has a chance to kill another class endgame although im not sure about Barb vs Barb endgame.

Wulph - Heavens Tear

bobzilla21 wrote: »

I find PvP pointless in MMORPGs, it really all boils down to who has a higher level and who has the equips, stats, and skills that are suited for battling your opponent. And who has a lot of lag, that's always important.
There's not too much strategy, all builds will be good against some types of opponents and bad against others, so the only real strategy is deciding who you fight and who you avoid. Other than that, it's just clicking the right buttons.

On a side note, we've really gone off-topic, haven't we...

oh no no no. pvp requires alot of stratergy. sure the high lvl and geared person can crush someone with ease. but once against someone equally geared it comes down to skill and how you use your chars ability. have you ever seen a eve online tournament? how about a world of warcraft finals tournament.? players who partake into these tournaments can slaughter any group they comepete who refuse to stratergize. you can have the best items in game and stills succumb to being kited, stunlocked, the use of line of site, lured into a trap ect. Trust me its not about who has the biggest sword. players who focus more into pvp will defend their territory better, exploit weaknesses of each class. even they are capable of winning an uneven match.

when you view pvp as pointless and no stratergy its because its prob not your playstyle.

there is basicly 3 types of people. those who enjoy the games lore and conquers it with their friends who share the same ideas.(pve'rs)

those who enjoy competition vs other people, they find their fun vs another player instead of an ai mob. they will organize attacks, defence ect.(pvp'ers)

and the final ones the griefers. these are the bullys, those who cannot win a pvper their lvl and have to take on their wrath on people who cannot kill them due to the lvl difference. they also abuse off people in pve servers by kill stealing, killing bosses they dont even need preventing lowbies to finish their quest and insult how inferior the other players are knowing those people cannot retaliate.

Mua - Lost City

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

endgame is ALL about PvP

Since you are clearly aware of this, why the hell are you on HT? Or did you finally make a character in Lost City?

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

i tried to level my archer on LC and i bashed my head into my desk, i find it easier to level my barb than a lowbie agaiin

Ty - Heavens Tear

Wulph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

im sorry but in a few things i do not agree here. for one i come from wow and well over 11mil subs is to much to consider it a lame game. but thats not why im responding. its more for what follows, about the quests and pve in general in wow being lame.

your wrong there and thats the main reason why lots of people play wow. the lore is well written and the quests are fun to read and do.
here im doing a quest to get some item fixed and the blacksmith i took it to sends me to get a book from someone. So i find that person and he refuses to give me the book, but will give it to me if i kill 40 of some random mob thats close to arch.
killing x mob or get y item has been in every game. Wow just makes the reason to do so very interesting while here im getting just go kill this and for little reason why. the quests here are quite shallow. but then it is a ftp so i cannot complain.
another example of poor writing in this game is when i had to find the tomb of the untamed hero, who was captured by the wing elves and tortured. at the end he bellows out Freeedom . comeon this is so damn braveheart. Anyone who saw the movie and see the poor reference will scream for justice.
I can go on but thats not the topic here.

like a few said the pve vs pvp servers is an old one. and it varies from game.
Eve: some will claim its a pvp intesive game, but its also a pve intensive game. and the richest players are in the pve enviorment. however they lack the fun where the pvp part is at.

Wow: you cannot call any server here a carebear server, infact the pve servers have the best pvpers. this is due to no griefing and players focus more in group fights ect. most of the best arena teams come from pve servers. pvp can be activated in many ways and lowbies can avoid the ganking part,, find players their lvl to challange. battles can be done in every town and infact in the pve servers more city battles are seen than in pvp servers.

pwi: im new to this game and i do like my pvp but it seems that the server im in is not like what im used to. while you can go to tw its not constant or a all day thing. im still in the process of finding which class i like best. as it is now i am getting a bit bored of the pve this game has due to the poor writing and execution of quests. this is leaning me to try out the pvp server since i do enjoy it.

now pvp in about every game has a few types of players.

the pvper: these people enjoy the player vs player enviorment. they enjoy the fact they can engage it at any time. they normally avoid anything that doesnt pose a threat to them and usually focus on what can be a potential and fun conflict.

the griefer: these are the players that bully the lowbies, thats how they find their fun, usually these tend to find things that ace to their advantage like a class that will be overpowered for lobies to counter (in pwi the archer) these players tend to suck hardcore vs a soso to good pvper, so they take thier anger on those they can kill with 1 shot.

the pver: These are the confused players on a pvp server, they come due to rl firends to the server, get melted , then complain about everyone on that said pvp server. truth is, they dont belong there.

for the pve servers:
the pve player: when on a pve server their way of fun is to progress with their friend in the pve enviorment. their chars are focused more for that also.

the griefers: These are use airheads who go to pve servers to kill quest mobs or bosses and steal kill, their only purpose is to aggravate the other players. because its a pve server they cannot get killed and can get away with their crimes. compared to griefers on a pvp server, these guys are the worse. atleast a griefer on a pvp server can get killed, but you cannot do nothing to these, they will mock you. ive already met a few of these on the server im in and it makes me want to go more to pvp due to it.

the pvper: pvpers in a pve enviorment are those who seek fast lvling and gearing up to get to their goal, they will get into pvp whenever the chance occurs for find ways to start it. (in wow its as simple as tagging yourself for it or attack a town) in pwi these are the ones who control territories. while in this game pvp is less than in a pvp server it seems to satisfy them

at the end you just cannot generalize a whole server for being one thing because your from a different type of server. if you noticed on any server youll find the same type of players only 1 will be larger than the other. pvp servers will have more pvp players than pve players in it. (pve players are easy to detect as they allow themselves to die in hopes they will be left alone) . Pve servers still have pvp players in it, they are just less then those who prefer to pve.

both pvp players and pve players have reasons to play the way they do, for them its fun.

its the griefers who i have a bone to throw at as these are the bullys of the mmo world. its because of them i im leaning to roll to the pvp server, just for the fact that atleast i know i can do somthing about it.

Quoted for length XD

Envy - Lost City

Wulph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

im sorry but in a few things i do not agree here. for one i come from wow and well over 11mil subs is to much to consider it a lame game. but thats not why im responding. its more for what follows, about the quests and pve in general in wow being lame.

your wrong there and thats the main reason why lots of people play wow. the lore is well written and the quests are fun to read and do.
here im doing a quest to get some item fixed and the blacksmith i took it to sends me to get a book from someone. So i find that person and he refuses to give me the book, but will give it to me if i kill 40 of some random mob thats close to arch.
killing x mob or get y item has been in every game. Wow just makes the reason to do so very interesting while here im getting just go kill this and for little reason why. the quests here are quite shallow. but then it is a ftp so i cannot complain.
another example of poor writing in this game is when i had to find the tomb of the untamed hero, who was captured by the wing elves and tortured. at the end he bellows out Freeedom . comeon this is so damn braveheart. Anyone who saw the movie and see the poor reference will scream for justice.
I can go on but thats not the topic here.

like a few said the pve vs pvp servers is an old one. and it varies from game.
Eve: some will claim its a pvp intesive game, but its also a pve intensive game. and the richest players are in the pve enviorment. however they lack the fun where the pvp part is at.

Wow: you cannot call any server here a carebear server, infact the pve servers have the best pvpers. this is due to no griefing and players focus more in group fights ect. most of the best arena teams come from pve servers. pvp can be activated in many ways and lowbies can avoid the ganking part,, find players their lvl to challange. battles can be done in every town and infact in the pve servers more city battles are seen than in pvp servers.

pwi: im new to this game and i do like my pvp but it seems that the server im in is not like what im used to. while you can go to tw its not constant or a all day thing. im still in the process of finding which class i like best. as it is now i am getting a bit bored of the pve this game has due to the poor writing and execution of quests. this is leaning me to try out the pvp server since i do enjoy it.

now pvp in about every game has a few types of players.

the pvper: these people enjoy the player vs player enviorment. they enjoy the fact they can engage it at any time. they normally avoid anything that doesnt pose a threat to them and usually focus on what can be a potential and fun conflict.

the griefer: these are the players that bully the lowbies, thats how they find their fun, usually these tend to find things that ace to their advantage like a class that will be overpowered for lobies to counter (in pwi the archer) these players tend to suck hardcore vs a soso to good pvper, so they take thier anger on those they can kill with 1 shot.

the pver: These are the confused players on a pvp server, they come due to rl firends to the server, get melted , then complain about everyone on that said pvp server. truth is, they dont belong there.

for the pve servers:
the pve player: when on a pve server their way of fun is to progress with their friend in the pve enviorment. their chars are focused more for that also.

the griefers: These are use airheads who go to pve servers to kill quest mobs or bosses and steal kill, their only purpose is to aggravate the other players. because its a pve server they cannot get killed and can get away with their crimes. compared to griefers on a pvp server, these guys are the worse. atleast a griefer on a pvp server can get killed, but you cannot do nothing to these, they will mock you. ive already met a few of these on the server im in and it makes me want to go more to pvp due to it.

the pvper: pvpers in a pve enviorment are those who seek fast lvling and gearing up to get to their goal, they will get into pvp whenever the chance occurs for find ways to start it. (in wow its as simple as tagging yourself for it or attack a town) in pwi these are the ones who control territories. while in this game pvp is less than in a pvp server it seems to satisfy them

at the end you just cannot generalize a whole server for being one thing because your from a different type of server. if you noticed on any server youll find the same type of players only 1 will be larger than the other. pvp servers will have more pvp players than pve players in it. (pve players are easy to detect as they allow themselves to die in hopes they will be left alone) . Pve servers still have pvp players in it, they are just less then those who prefer to pve.

both pvp players and pve players have reasons to play the way they do, for them its fun.

its the griefers who i have a bone to throw at as these are the bullys of the mmo world. its because of them i im leaning to roll to the pvp server, just for the fact that atleast i know i can do somthing about it.

quoted for length