Fist damage does not "suck"...

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey I;m a believer since I mostly use fists. I was just trying to clarify his terms.

he was understanding 1.43 secs per hit rather than 1.43 hit per second.

Saying that it all depends on which weapons you are comparing:

the previous was on TT80, I will compare two TT70 now:
Warriorblade
(718+387)/2*1.11=613.28

Skywarrior Fists
(392+433)/2*1.43=589.875

Was just expanding your example for everyone who doesn't already know. With so many thread going about different weapons, people will look at that and see that swords appear to have more damage. Just wanted to make sure people knew that to be untrue from normal attacks, and the why.

Granrey - Sanctuary

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i follow only fist+sword paths at the moment. in practise 1 kills nearly as fast as the other. the point is that fists get more chi over time(ok not much more compared to 1.11 swords but the difference can be noticed easily) so more chi=more ultimates=more damage.

I agree on that and thats pretty much what I do

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary

I find fists to be rather useful weapons for several reasons. If some of my explanations seem odd with skills it is because I use all four weapons, so i consider all special attacks.

First of all the skills. Aside from the first skill, which only slows your opponent at the cost of a spark (imo oceans edge is better because no spark cost and can use it with any weapon), all of them are pretty nice.

Shadowless kick is great for obvious reasons, and combined with genie canceling skill (alternating their usage) can cancel a huge chunk of enemy magic attacks. In addition sage cooldown reduces to 10 seconds, enough to cancel most standard enemy casts i believe by itself.

Cyclone heel at high levels can be used to permanently increase your attack speed by 12%...then depending on sage/demon prehaps even more. When i say permanently i mean spamming it at level 10 will give u a continuous attack speed boost of 12%, which you can then switch to any other weapon to reap benefits from. It also serves as a fourth full radius aoe attack (not including things that consume sparks), so you can fill in gaps in your aoe chain when all your enemies are not lined up nicely in the front to use fan of flames.

Originally for some reason i did not consider drakes breath bash to be a good use of two sparks; however, after rereading it it actually can be very useful when fighting opponents who are weak to fire or wearing heavy armor. The attack at level 10 adds 80% of your weapon damage in fire damage (does not convert 80%...adds 80% that is fire damage), never mind the damage the attack does, myriad is superior for instant damage alone. This % increases to 100% at sage/demon. The thing to remember about this damage verses someone in heavy armor is chances are A. (if another BM) they are using alter marrow physical against u, and B. their magical defense is probably way lower than their physical defense without that. That makes this additional damage extremely effective damage. While i do not know the calculations for the total damage done per attack, this bonus would probably add roughly 50-100% more damage to your attacks....for 15 seconds. Once again you can switch to another weapon if you so choose (i might combine this with heavens flames debuff or spark eruption(the sparks for that can easily be obtained from genie skills(get cloud eruption its insta 2 sparks at 10 and works on npc!)/if you have 3 sparks/full bar of chi)), this enormous added damage would help kill enemies.

Bolt of tyreseus i have not had any experience with; however from what i have read it is a very powerful skill (gives u another ranged aoe attack aside from myriad). With some great detrimental effects to your enemies.

Fists are also the best weapons for generating chi, seeing as they have the fastest attack speed, they can be used to gain more chi. A good useage of this is using fists in between your stun moves to generate more chi to use even more stunlock. Drake bash uses a huge amount of chi, and if you want to keep them stunned awhile the extra really helps (you also need really good timing to switch out fists axes for bash...aeolin and roar can be used with fists). The higher dex from the fists will also allow your drake bash to hit more often....well pending you dont have enough money (are a normal person) to buy tons of +30-50% accuracy rings...like some people assume everyone can easily do...The stunlock example i listed is more for dueling or keeping someone...from going anywhere for awhile, seeing as in pk charms bring up a huge need for killing damage hits.

Fists attack rate also makes them excellent with abilities which regenerate mana or hp. More attacks landed gives the ability more opportunity to activate; therefore allowing fists to capitalize the most off those kinds of abilities.

As for dps, my primary weapon is sword, and I have listed how I find fists useful to me. I really cant give any good view on using them for things other than were listed above, so i will stop here.

Imo all weapons a bm can use have some sort of useful attribute to them, hence why I use all four. It just hurts the spirit and wallet ALOT lol.

Granrey - Sanctuary

Something interesting about fists that some of us could be missing is the shards.

If you add shard that add 20 phy damage you might think the effect would be same on every weapon. Which is correct per hit but not per damage per second.

For instance if add a 20 phy damage stone on fists:

attack rate 1.43 per second which means the shard will do=1.43*20

the 20 becomes 28.6 per second

on Sword=1.11*20= 22.2 damage per second
on axes=0.83*20= 16.6 damage per second

In other words shards on fists increases DPS way more than what it does in other BM weapons.

Forp - Heavens Tear

i plan to roll a fist warrior here. tired of my old server. my biggest combo was always: heel kick > switch to axes > roar > dragon > back to fist during animation > something is going to die.

Ichimokusan - Sanctuary

I rolled a BM and I am going to make it fistmaster. I rolled an Archer and love it as my main but I didn't roll it because someone recommended it to me. If I wanted to be like everyone I could roll a Veno.

It is fun to play with characters I like (Archers, Rogue/Assasin-types) but this game really doesn't have an Assassin other than fist/claw BM.

I don't like that guides on BM forum rule out a build since guides are supposed to be unbiased. Luckily, the Archer forum is my home where the guides present all points of view and let me decide.

EDIT: The BM Fist hate resembles the Archer Slingshot hate. Luckily, the people who know how to use Slingshots like them, while the opposition says "OMG sling r denis teh m3nace or bart simpson teh ghey"

Sinense - Sanctuary

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Tools used in writing this up:

Ecatomb build generator: http://www.ecatomb.net/character.php
Perfect World Item database: http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items

http://asiapworld.com/pw/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=57&Itemid=91 gives different numbers for refines.

RockSkin - Sanctuary

Edit: I decided to open a topic instead.

My doubts about fist BM's were kinda off-topic.

If you wanna help me out I've created a topic:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3310312#post3310312

Sorry for spaming this thread.

Devoted - Lost City

fyi a fist warrior can get up to 4.33 attacks per second, obviously extremely hard but fist warriors at 99 can pull off 3.25 per second with familiar endgame gears

volst

I thought attack speed was capped at 2.22? Either that or pwcalc is wrong.

jeppykaijeey

oke guys read this carefully cause well I am right lol

Fists = not good, when girls see such big hands they get afraid they dont like it they will run :")

spear = normal, its a knife on a stick what can I say :P

axe's = fack no :"), axe's are for trolls they not sexy at all. what are you a lumberman?? altho some girls like the rough type

blades = good lol, atleast they look sexy and they show you can handle yourself in the kitchen. They like the ninja katana's and which girl doesnt like a tight black suit that shows a perfect **** :P but thats just me :P

and all the weirdo's that dont understand this stfu and gtfo out
of the house I mean (there are girls outside :P) :")

bigxbear

I say the BEST wr is a multi-weapon user ^^, and here is my proof in the 09 warrior tourmament on pwmy-en. ( psst! a axe/fist wr wins. GASP!! =O)

lol, enjoy ^^ =
part 1 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhFtyWm7TOw&feature=channel_page
part 2 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9IC4PQBDSY&feature=related

kalden

The last I heard the attack speed is cap at 3.33.

ilystah

Sorry to somewhat hijack this thread b:pleased but can someone write a sticky-able guide or sticky the one that already exist which guide newcomer to fist BM? I searched around but all I found is "fist BM suck QQQ" or something similar. b:cry b:cry

Granrey - Sanctuary

bigxbear wrote: »

I say the BEST wr is a multi-weapon user ^^, and here is my proof in the 09 warrior tourmament on pwmy-en. ( psst! a axe/fist wr wins. GASP!! =O)

lol, enjoy ^^ =
part 1 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhFtyWm7TOw&feature=channel_page
part 2 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9IC4PQBDSY&feature=related

it appears that BM are very smart and open to using several weapons.

you can see cyclone heel being used by sword and axes users, as well as fists users using drakebash and even flames.

questions:

1) where was that tournament?
2) are poleaxes and polehammer so popular there?
3) I see the fists user doing an strange skill that has red sparkles on opponent, which skill is that?
4) at 4:12 on second video, somebody applies flames and then start running, why was that?

bigxbear

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

it appears that BM are very smart and open to using several weapons.

you can see cyclone heel being used by sword and axes users, as well as fists users using drakebash and even flames.

questions:

1) where was that tournament?
2) are poleaxes and polehammer so popular there?
3) I see the fists user doing an strange skill that has red sparkles on opponent, which skill is that?
4) at 4:12 on second video, somebody applies flames and then start running, why was that?

imho, i think the best wr is one that uses multiple weapons.

i'll answer ur questions to best i can =P
1- the tornament was on pw my-en. i think the rules wereu had to use equipment from npcs only and no apotho pots. (strictly skill and technique)

2-i'm not sure, i see most ppl 90+ using gx dual axes for axes

3-Diamon provoation- it reduces opponent's vigor by 50 points ( u get it if u go dark)

4-if u watch, keenYii used dark spark and the flames didnt hit him, if u know wat dark spark does, then u know y he ran till it wore off ^^

Granrey - Sanctuary

bigxbear wrote: »

imho, i think the best wr is one that uses multiple weapons.


3-Diamon provoation- it reduces opponent's vigor by 50 points ( u get it if u go dark)

4-if u watch, keenYii used dark spark and the flames didnt hit him, if u know wat dark spark does, then u know y he ran till it wore off ^^

I'm very ignorant regarding the sage and demon.

I have not seen those skills in ecatombe. Could link me somewhere about these skills?

regarding the running. I know that making an opinion in PVP when I have done only few duels is not appropiate but I still think the ultimates from pole, axes and fists are not good for PVP, since if your opponent run, you dont get the benefits of the effects.

bigxbear

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm very ignorant regarding the sage and demon.

I have not seen those skills in ecatombe. Could link me somewhere about these skills?

regarding the running. I know that making an opinion in PVP when I have done only few duels is not appropiate but I still think the ultimates from pole, axes and fists are not good for PVP, since if your opponent run, you dont get the benefits of the effects.

on ecatomb, simply select the vigor (chi) option under the skill tree to veiw the holy/dark vigor skills

holy(sage)-Focus energy, instantly increase oneself's 50 points of vigor(1 min cooldown)

dark(demon)-Provoke the opponent, instantly reduce 50 points of its' vigor.(1 min cooldown)

if u stun before or after the ultimates, u will be able to keep then in place for the effect, but usually when u go dark/holy u'll save ur sparks for dark/holy spark

regarding dark or holy, it's a matter of ur own play style, they each benefit in their own ways

Flame_bladez - Heavens Tear

The battle of the fists begin -.- maybe the fist users should revolt....

Granrey - Sanctuary

Flame_bladez - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The battle of the fists begin -.- maybe the fist users should revolt....

I dont think you will go too far on that. The problem with fists and sword is that Axes is probably the best weapon for most people (I;m not totally convinced yet lol)and as result all the roles of the BM are based on the capabilities of that built.

You go to TT, TW, RB, FB's and every strategy is based on axes.


I think is dumb approach but thats how it is.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Ok, people still arguing about fists again? I'll just say that, Fists/claws are the best ever, I just pop in draw blood and just use normal attacks 70% of the time. I don't have to spam...

The thing is that I kill faster with sword if i use skills meaning i would get my HP drained, but fists i may kill a bit slower but i don't need much MP. I grind with fists longer than swords and axes too. don't know much about spear but i am willing to see how i grind with spear. So far, fist is better for a PVE 1 on 1 choice or boss

bigxbear

axe's r good for group kills, claws r best for 1v1. here's a wild suggestion, y not use both (hint, hint)

SmexyGuy - Dreamweaver

if u read all fist-related post,
u could see Lyndura is definitely anti-fist

that makes me wonder how hard he/she got spank by a fist BM.. b:laugh

GodlyTank - Dreamweaver

SmexyGuy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if u read all fist-related post,
u could see Lyndura is definitely anti-fist

that makes me wonder how hard he/she got spank by a fist BM.. b:laugh

I would have to agree with you on that one. Shes def butt hurt b:chuckle

Kyna - Lost City

I honestly think that fist builds are one of the hardest to get right. Anyone can build axes >_> that's easy, that's why it's common. Also, yes, gear does play a factor but if you even out the playing field and put them both in the same quality gear, but modified to fit their style of play AND with both players that know what they're doing... the Fist can most definitely beat an axe, but I'm sure it can also go the other way around for two good players.

I for one am PERFECTLY fine with not hitting very hard in one strike. I for one, like my evasion, crit rate, and attack speed. That's what normal BM's seem to NOT understand is that a fist user isn't about STR it's about speed. It's also about the right combination of skills. What good is an axe user skill if it misses?? Fist users also build up sparks at a very nice rate. Mostly because we rarely miss. More sparks means that we can use our bigger skills more often. I keep enough str for the heavy armor set one level below me so I can have decent def, good evasion, crit and all that. >_> although it gets expensive to keep up two armor sets but eh... I'll deal with it. They also don't seem to realize... I've hit up to 16 crits in a row. 3k per strike at a normal strike rate of 1.43 for a good many seconds is good DD for not using skills.

I have beat most other types of BM on more than one occassion the same level as me or higher, and since they have the misconception that fist users are weak... yeah... they cry big, fat, manly, blademaster tears xD. b:chuckle

Did I also forget to mention...

I can still tank things xD Depends on the squad but I have successfully tanked fb51 as a fist user with no real problem and, well, I have a cleric too xD so if I do get invited to TT and they find a higher level cleric to bring with I just bring my BM and run DD. >_> it's really not that bad. I'm not a tank that's for sure but hey, I get things done xD.

Vodevil - Harshlands

Personnaly i think fists & claws are only interesting if u have gear with -interval. Then a BM in fists become really good when he have TT99 arms+other piece.

I started to wear fists (i have lunar claws) when i had my TT99 gear and now i can say i dps so much more than with my GXs (i have GX axes and swords) and i dont loose any HP coz of zerk.

In Harshlands we have some crazy demon BM who hit at 5/sec with +10 TT100 or +10 Lunar Claws. (TT99 gear, interval wing trophy,scroll of tome, Nirvana legs..) and they r just the better dps of the server with R8 archers..

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Vodevil - Harshlands wrote: »

Personnaly i think fists & claws are only interesting if u have gear with -interval. Then a BM in fists become really good when he have TT99 arms+other piece.

I started to wear fists (i have lunar claws) when i had my TT99 gear and now i can say i dps so much more than with my GXs (i have GX axes and swords) and i dont loose any HP coz of zerk.

In Harshlands we have some crazy demon BM who hit at 5/sec with +10 TT100 or +10 Lunar Claws. (TT99 gear, interval wing trophy,scroll of tome, Nirvana legs..) and they r just the better dps of the server with R8 archers..

Necro... way to bring back the darkage.

VerenKaunis - Dreamweaver

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Necro... way to bring back the darkage.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7615/darkageslifetimepastfut.jpg

Joshcja - Sanctuary

ahhhh the axe ages

*goes to read the thread and lol contently*

konariraiden

NECRO!! *battle cry, pulling out dual axes*

I don't care if I'm a Wizard, I got this!

*slays Zombie Thread*