Banning Archers for using glitch in zhen parties
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The ferenczy - Sanctuary wrote: »no offence but archers wizards and veno have major upsides to being them
i think that knowingly useing glitches is bad period both side of the guilt should shhhh.......
as for venos i feel the pain every one bags on you due to pet envy. heck i am envious b:laugh but to me the crime that is committed the most is stealing my kills
i am a barbarian and damn guys you see me running you see me swing not what do you do? apparantly you take aim and shoot because you know that you'll deal more damage and take the kill with no threat to your saftey. that is NOT cool I - WE (counting in the blade masters) have to run to out kill and kill it close up. if you wanna use us to tank just ask if not then don't but don't steal our kills. PLEASE.
Oh believe me I know how slow and frustrating it can be leveling a barb or BM, I always try to give them kill priority if hunting nearby.... I will sometimes try to compete with other ranged classes in instances where there are a limited number of mobs, since I consider them to be evenly matched..... but I'll always back off for a barb or BM.0 -
and again a BIG thankyou to all who do. and remember the barbarian that you are kind to will probably save your live in a dungeon some day especially when we tank
one day the world will shout to me save us....
and i will whisper no.0 -
it happens the other way too, when you're channeling a long pet in front of ONE single mob (omg i wonder who that spell is going to...) the meleer goes to the target passing next to you.
Both sides are guilty.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^^ Made by Saitada ^^
Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
Lessie: Proof?
Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day
b:cute0 -
i know both sides make mistakes but we can't see you way off to the side channeling and to us all channeling looks the same. again when it happens i appologize but most of the time especially for us barbs when we intrud on your kill we disengage and walk away and you still get your kill as out damage is very little compared to yours.one day the world will shout to me save us....
and i will whisper no.0 -
I'll say again I dont think anyone should be banned, IF there is a glitch then it should be fixed - its one boss and thats it, no big deal - as for the archer skill and the massive xp gain - all in party gains, no matter what their race - actually doesnt the end result gain work for anyone in a squad with a veno too ?
As for the barrage thing - it doesnt stop until all mobs are dead, unless manually done - isnt the goal of the barrage to rain on all mobs until dead? Once the mobs are dead the skill stops - whats the point of it continuing on after that - wouldnt it be just sucking up mana for no reason ?
If anything activating via a duel wouldnt be economically wise lol, using up shedloads of mana after intended targets are dead already - I would hit the escape button anyhoo. (not that I intend to use the skill in that way - well at least not until there is some sort of official response on it)
I have scoured the threads on this forum, including technical support and official announcements - the area that says if you havent read it here then dont believe it... surely if it was a bannable offence then something would be on there ?
I've tried to e-mail customer support and contact a GM and asked them the official standing on it - no response.
In this thread and other threads regarding veno attacking Gouf - no response from anyone official...
I wonder why that is ?0 -
Wysteria - Heavens Tear wrote: »As for the barrage thing - it doesnt stop until all mobs are dead, unless manually done - isnt the goal of the barrage to rain on all mobs until dead? Once the mobs are dead the skill stops - whats the point of it continuing on after that - wouldnt it be just sucking up mana for no reason ?
If anything activating via a duel wouldnt be economically wise lol, using up shedloads of mana after intended targets are dead already - I would hit the escape button anyhoo. (not that I intend to use the skill in that way - well at least not until there is some sort of official response on it)
The bug is meant purely to continue the bombard even after the target is dead. The way zhen parties work is the archer(s) sets up bombard on the priest by bugging it, the mages open their fire array, and they continuously deal damage in a set area while warriors/werebeasts pull monsters into the damage zone. Yes, it drains mana like no other, but that's why they use charms :v[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think a lot of people in this thread need to understand that people don't die in duels. Once you understand that you will understand how the Archer skill works and how it's not going around any of the in-game systems.0
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Wysteria - Heavens Tear wrote: »
I've tried to e-mail customer support and contact a GM and asked them the official standing on it - no response.
In this thread and other threads regarding veno attacking Gouf - no response from anyone official...
I wonder why that is ?
Because they know damn well its their fault for letting this programming error slide.
Granted i know it takes time for the developers to fix it, at the very least say something.0 -
Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear wrote: »... Once you understand that you will understand how the Archer skill works and how it's not going around any of the in-game systems.
We understand just fine how the trick works. But the issues are around circumventing the intended game mechanics, not using the actual game mechanics.0 -
I come from a game where bosskilling is a accomplishment to be proud of.(City Of Heroes/Villains)
But in this game, if you solo a boss, you get the ban? Sounds a bit unfair lol.0 -
all korean games i know so far have more bug / glitches / exploits and issues then normal features. Maybe it is cause koreans arnt able to do well scripting or their standards in scripting is so low that it is enough, for being a scripter / dev, when you know how to power on/off a computer.
we are all just normal players so no one of us knows if any kind of action / reaction of game mechanic is a normal one or a bug / exploit / glitch.
Its first NOT OUR part to find out what is normal and correct or not
its second NOT OUR part to fix or avoid bugs / exploits / glitches
Whatever game mechanic technical allows to do is also allowed to use in game and its neither bugusing nor cheating or anything else ! Its simple using of game mechanic / system as it is scripted !
If some behavior of game mechanic / system is not running well or in that way DEVs want (but who of us knows what they want ?) its is part of DEVs to fix this and get proper running. So DEVs we know have no interest in fixing anything, those "strange" game mechanic / system issues will never been fixed.
If DEVs have none interest in fixing those issues (and other ones) they also have none interest in having a game with fair and good gameplay.
if DEVs are not interested in fair and good gameplay NO player can be banned for using simple the possibility of game machanic / system
So STOP wanting any ppl being banned for NOTHING then simple use the game in the way it is scripted / developedjustice might be blind - but i also see in darkness0 -
and in the end when other classes couldnt kill gouf they asked venos help to bug it..and after gouf is killed and those ppl gets few lvls more ppl cry on forums veno is bad glitching blabla..was wondering that was it good quest when u had ? cuz over half of this topic hasnt killed it legitly...dunno is that right word/ and what comes to archers bug i dun care cuz it doesnt help me anyway im bad lurer and sry for my bad eng 0
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One week and 162 replies later...
Still no official statement from PWE on this issue....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh0 -
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the truth is the archer glitch your bashing on makes it slightly easier, there is a non glitch way to do exactly this its just a bit harder to do, so this glitch isn;t really that big a deal, as for the veno glitch, if its just gouf that it can be done on, fine i don;t think thats worth the gms efforts to try and control anyway0
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What gameplay Mechanic is the Archer trick circumventing? The skill ends if the target dies, the target does not die therefore the skill does not end.We understand just fine how the trick works. But the issues are around circumventing the intended game mechanics, not using the actual game mechanics.
Korean companies and teams are responsible for all the finest MMORPGs in existence. b:worriedCelebren - Heavens Tear wrote: »all korean games i know so far have more bug / glitches / exploits and issues then normal features. Maybe it is cause koreans arnt able to do well scripting or their standards in scripting is so low that it is enough, for being a scripter / dev, when you know how to power on/off a computer.
we are all just normal players so no one of us knows if any kind of action / reaction of game mechanic is a normal one or a bug / exploit / glitch.
Its first NOT OUR part to find out what is normal and correct or not
its second NOT OUR part to fix or avoid bugs / exploits / glitches
Whatever game mechanic technical allows to do is also allowed to use in game and its neither bugusing nor cheating or anything else ! Its simple using of game mechanic / system as it is scripted !
If some behavior of game mechanic / system is not running well or in that way DEVs want (but who of us knows what they want ?) its is part of DEVs to fix this and get proper running. So DEVs we know have no interest in fixing anything, those "strange" game mechanic / system issues will never been fixed.
If DEVs have none interest in fixing those issues (and other ones) they also have none interest in having a game with fair and good gameplay.
if DEVs are not interested in fair and good gameplay NO player can be banned for using simple the possibility of game machanic / system
So STOP wanting any ppl being banned for NOTHING then simple use the game in the way it is scripted / developed
Just because sometime happens in a game, does not mean it is a part of gameplay mechanics and does not mean you can use it freely. Games have bugs, bugs take time to fix and until the bug is fixed it is completely normal for developers to ask people not to abuse it. They have all rights to ban players who abuse game flaws knowingly. Here's an example, Mentos and Diet coke create a violent reaction, this can cause problems if consumed in large amounts in conjunction with each other. Now a person who offers a person a Mentos without knowing the effects of it on the diet coke the man is drinking, he learns a lesson about chemical reactions and learns to not do it again, he is forgiven due to his ignorance. But if that person was to willingly go around feeding people drinking Diet Coke some Mentos' he'd be in trouble for malicious activities.0 -
Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear wrote: »What gameplay Mechanic is the Archer trick circumventing? The skill ends if the target dies, the target does not die therefore the skill does not end.
Korean companies and teams are responsible for all the finest MMORPGs in existence. b:worried
Just because sometime happens in a game, does not mean it is a part of gameplay mechanics and does not mean you can use it freely. Games have bugs, bugs take time to fix and until the bug is fixed it is completely normal for developers to ask people not to abuse it. They have all rights to ban players who abuse game flaws knowingly. Here's an example, Mentos and Diet coke create a violent reaction, this can cause problems if consumed in large amounts in conjunction with each other. Now a person who offers a person a Mentos without knowing the effects of it on the diet coke the man is drinking, he learns a lesson about chemical reactions and learns to not do it again, he is forgiven due to his ignorance. But if that person was to willingly go around feeding people drinking Diet Coke some Mentos' he'd be in trouble for malicious activities.
Its a well known fact that they dont care about bugfixing and thats proved hundred times and in all their mmos they are responsible for. Also here in this game they stated that some bugs will never be fixed.
So is the question why they dont fix
a) they have no interest cause cant earn (more) real-money with
b) they have no idea how to fix / script it for proper running
no matter for which reason they dont fix - its still their part to avoid unpropper game meachnic and NEVER part of the ppl.
If they leave bugs as they are they are cleary saying "we are not interested in this bug and we are not interested in propper running game mechanic."
Regarding on such clear statements NO ppl can be responsible and being banned for using the scripted game meachnic as it is scripted. Its NEVER part of ppl to avoid bugs and DEVs / GMs can never push responsibility for avoiding bugs to ppl.
btw. as it also was said often enough here - most times such ppl cry about "they can use a bug / glitch for doing ..." who are happy being in a party in which this glitch is used to kill the mob they need.
I'm archer and when i kill a mob or help klling it - i do it on the easiest way. Maybe i use a bug / glitch atm for or not - i dont care about cause i also dont know ist it purpose or a glitch. Who of you all is allowed to decide that its a bug or not. Who of you all knows if its a bug and not a feature ?justice might be blind - but i also see in darkness0 -
Celebren - Heavens Tear wrote: »Who of you all is allowed to decide that its a bug or not. Who of you all knows if its a bug and not a feature ?
Logic & common sense ?
If I attack a very hard boss for my lvl with a flying pet and it doesnt do **** just sit there till it dies there's obviously something wrong.
If I gotta duel to use a skill and skip the "till it dies" part because ppl dont die in duels, there's obviously something wrong.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^^ Made by Saitada ^^
Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
Lessie: Proof?
Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day
b:cute0 -
Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear wrote: »What gameplay Mechanic is the Archer trick circumventing? The skill ends if the target dies, the target does not die therefore the skill does not end.
The skill is buggy, it is not delivering damage to the target.Just because sometime happens in a game, does not mean it is a part of gameplay mechanics and does not mean you can use it freely.
As a player you derive the game mechanics from the events that occur in the game.Games have bugs, bugs take time to fix and until the bug is fixed it is completely normal for developers to ask people not to abuse it.
And where did they ask this? Earlier someone asked for a list of bug description, none exists.
There's no need to ban people for either of the bugs they do not fix.0 -
Lessie - Lost City wrote: »Logic & common sense ?
If I attack a very hard boss for my lvl with a flying pet and it doesnt do **** just sit there till it dies there's obviously something wrong.
If I gotta duel to use a skill and skip the "till it dies" part because ppl dont die in duels, there's obviously something wrong.
Wrong, Kun Kun is a lvl100 boss wit complete elemental immunity, that when attacked just runs away. Common sense would be like, "WTF this has to be a glitch." But it is part of the game. If someone finds a strategy for killing a boss with a flying pet that prevents him/herself from dying, don't freakin complain about it just cuz you can't do it. If the devs don't like it then it should be fixed. But, unfortunately, we as players do no have the power to decide what gets banned. We simply bow down to the ******** the people with the power decide on as they use the twisted ToS that allows them to ban for "any reason or no reason at all." That's the perks of being a Mod on a F2P game. If someone tried that **** on a P2P game, or even a 1-time fee game, that would scream LAWSUIT LAWSUIT LAWSUIT PL0X!0 -
Actually as a new player I didn't even know your couldn't fight a boss with an air pet. Just seems logical from a strategic standpoint.
On top of that I didn't know it was banable?
I also only recently have started cruzing the forums usually looking for info about quests and what not but I usually don’t read or post on forums. Actually in most games I've played I've never used the forums!
With that said for anyone including the GM's to assume that everyone knows about all the banable offences and that everyone reads the forums is just ludicrous!
From a fairly new person playing this game, If I was to be banned for doing something that I didn’t know was a bannable offence simply because its a know offence, "On the forums" then I would think that the first offence should be a warning and explained to the gamer like one person pointed out.
On the other hand if it was part of my user agreement and/or on the front page or link then I would say ok. But its not!
You can’t very well expect people to follow rules when you wont tell them what they are! People posting in a forums does not constitute a forum for publicly announcing what’s expectable and what’s not! You need to make it understood in a clear and concise way other than rumors and word of mouth.
That’s my rant!!0 -
Specgoesemo - Lost City wrote: »Wrong, Kun Kun is a lvl100 boss wit complete elemental immunity, that when attacked just runs away. Common sense would be like, "WTF this has to be a glitch." But it is part of the game. If someone finds a strategy for killing a boss with a flying pet that prevents him/herself from dying, don't freakin complain about it just cuz you can't do it. If the devs don't like it then it should be fixed. But, unfortunately, we as players do no have the power to decide what gets banned. We simply bow down to the ******** the people with the power decide on as they use the twisted ToS that allows them to ban for "any reason or no reason at all." That's the perks of being a Mod on a F2P game. If someone tried that **** on a P2P game, or even a 1-time fee game, that would scream LAWSUIT LAWSUIT LAWSUIT PL0X!
We do, however, have the ability to take our business elsewhere.0 -
Ya know I do wonder.. what wouldhappen to this community if the gms banned the 5 highest level players in this game for no reason what so ever, and allowed them to post on the fourms. Gave no reason, and refused to asnwer as to why they banned them. I really wonder if this game would just end.
The sad part is they would be skewered tottaly at the flame, unable to do anything, becuase the BS ToS in every free game states that we are nothing to the point where they can literally..wait for us to spend $50 and then promptly ban us stealing our money and walking away. would anyone do anything? No. Would anyone boycott the cash shop or something like that ? attemps would be made but they'd just relase some hot deal for 2 days, and the boycot would be broken.
This is the few reasons why pay to play games are better than free to play games becuase pay to play, they cannot use that kind of BS ToS or they'd find themselvs in a heap of lawsutes in a matter of months.0 -
That is because skills do not harm party members. Nothing bugged about it, the trick just makes use of several gameplay mehcanics to achieve desired results.The skill is buggy, it is not delivering damage to the target.
Yes, and 99.99% of the time you'd realise that monsters are suppose to attack you back when you hit them. Also if you've been taking notice of anything at all in the game, you'd also realise that when a monster cannot reach it's target, it retreats and a very high regeneration sets in, making the mob impossible to kill, this was shown in the form of a bug in one of the TWs when a group of level 50s-60s could not take down a single monster.As a player you derive the game mechanics from the events that occur in the game.
Because the bug is hard to monitor, the admins rather keep it secret because publically accouncing it would only cause people to abuse it more and make them have to work harder to monitor such people. Instead they give people warnings and if they are caught glitching again they are banned, or if there is proof they abused the glitch with prior knowlege.And where did they ask this? Earlier someone asked for a list of bug description, none exists.
There's no need to ban people for either of the bugs they do not fix.
It's their responsibility to fix bugs, but it's also the player's responsibility to not abuse glitches that are already in game. Just because you have a gun, doesn't immediately give you the right to rob a store just because you can. Saying "It's really their fault for not having security guards!" is not a valid defence.0 -
On a Philosophic note does glitching of any kind exist at all? People on all games will find ways to be sucessful. When someone find something that makes them "too sucessful" they are usually banned from that game. I have a hard time seeing how anyone in both of these examples did anything wrong. They play the game, they find something that works well for them, they become victorious. This game has certain rules of how it works and people find ways to get the most within these rules. If the people who control the game want to change the rules of the game so certain classes have less of an advantage over others in certain aspects its their choice but banning the sucessful is not a solution.
If someone in reality makes a military tactic or technology to take over the world and used it are they glitching the world? No, they simply found what gave them an advantage and used it. If you want to be able to solo bosses in this game its probably a good idea to use a venomancer. If you want to do well in Zhen parties be an archer. You have the choice to make a new character of any class at any time. Ever consider making one where you get an advantage you like?0 -
Scarag - Heavens Tear wrote: »If the people who control the game want to change the rules of the game so certain classes have less of an advantage over others in certain aspects its their choice but banning the sucessful is not a solution.
What rules have they changed? They are just enforcing the current rules under the ToS.Scarag - Heavens Tear wrote: »If someone in reality makes a military tactic or technology to take over the world and used it are they glitching the world?
This one just make me laugh.
Oh wait let me correct that.
In "Reality" you make me laugh.0 -
Glitching does exist, the ToS is not a philosophy. Attacking mobs in a way that renders them unable to react is a example of glitching and is not tolerated.Scarag - Heavens Tear wrote: »On a Philosophic note does glitching of any kind exist at all? People on all games will find ways to be sucessful. When someone find something that makes them "too sucessful" they are usually banned from that game. I have a hard time seeing how anyone in both of these examples did anything wrong. They play the game, they find something that works well for them, they become victorious. This game has certain rules of how it works and people find ways to get the most within these rules. If the people who control the game want to change the rules of the game so certain classes have less of an advantage over others in certain aspects its their choice but banning the sucessful is not a solution.
If someone in reality makes a military tactic or technology to take over the world and used it are they glitching the world? No, they simply found what gave them an advantage and used it. If you want to be able to solo bosses in this game its probably a good idea to use a venomancer. If you want to do well in Zhen parties be an archer. You have the choice to make a new character of any class at any time. Ever consider making one where you get an advantage you like?0 -
and in the end ppl who need kill gouf etc mob u will ask veno "pls nice veno bug for me that boss"...i dont have anything against archer bug ^^0
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I recently discovered that a Venomancer was banned, for NOT glitching. This was an 80+ Veno, who was on the ground, with a ground pet (Golem), pet healing and killing Gouf for a party of freinds. There was no aerial pet glitching involved whatsoever. A GM saw the Venomancer soloing Gouf, and just because it was a soloing Venomancer, he was banned from the game. In addition, the rest of the group had screenshots of this fight where Gouf wasnt being glitched, but fought normally, and protested on the Venomancers behalf, and those party members got 24 hour suspensions just for trying to defend this. I want to know how the GMs can be so liberal to basically ban an entire class from helping, simply because they have the potential to glitch it, even if they weren't at all. I now know Venomancers who wont help on Gouf, to do it in a NORMAL type fight, not glitched, simply out of worry for being banned. What has this come to?0
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Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear wrote: »That is because skills do not harm party members. Nothing bugged about it, the trick just makes use of several gameplay mehcanics to achieve desired results.
Then there's nothing bugged about the stalling boss either. What makes them both bugged, if you follow that line reasoning, is the reference to the so called intended mechanics and intended gameplay. If you reference intented mechanics in one case, you should do so in all cases, otherwise you're reasoning is just hypocritical.Because the bug is hard to monitor, the admins rather keep it secret because publically accouncing
And how would they know the bug when it occurs? If it's not listed, and it's so hard to monitor for staff, then how can you expect the players to do so? It's a lot easier to spot if you can see the total damage a squad takes and deals and know what to look for.
It's been mentioned before, they don't need to list all details about these bugs, just how to recognize them.0
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