So much for the "Holy Grail of achievements" in Neverwinter. Plonk!
This is my point. But I see that I am in the minority here. So, if things go status quo, I'll just buy one, rather than login every day to invoke for another two month to genuinely earn one, and in the process drop all personal incentive to actually login every day at all. And in that process, lose a lot of my motivation to continue as often and as 'hard' as I have been. (I don't expect anyone, much less Cryptic to care - I'm just stating my thought pattern here and I'm sure I speak for a few others - just revealing the issue, that's all).
Easily solved by Cryptic announcing that there will be a superior BoA Purple companions at some stage in the near future.
1) Too late. It would be a slap in the face to any one who upgraded another healer companion planning on selling their Angel to make up for the price of the upgrade.
2) Your time, your coins, your choice.
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mirloc608Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2014
I do believe that the Angel should be bound. It's a simple thing, in that each character is more or less guaranteed to get one, assuming they invoke at least once a day, and if you aren't you are missing out on a lot.
i think it should be BoA because as more and more people get this item and as it becomes more available on the AH, it will decrease in value. this is an unfair advantage in my opinion. the whole purpose of celestial and ardent coins is an incentive to earn special items. if those items are something they'd rather sell, then perhaps the question is what items should be offered that they'd want to keep?
Bind on Equip? NOOOOO! This makes it sellable, which under normal circumstances would be fine and would be my primary choice, HOWEVER, there are a LOT of farming bots in NW and as the minority of people have said, once these Angels start being issued en-masse, they will begin flooding the Auction House.
Now, that's going to sound harsh, but bots aren't my problem. It's cryptic's problem, and they better deal with it without bothering the legitimate players, who may get a bit pissed if they start making the game a hell to play just to prevent botting (which is in this case probably done by humans anyway). They are developpers, and there are many smart people at cryptic. I'm sure they can find some solutions to the bot issues. Someone to watch PE zone chat, lfg and trade to issue bans would be a good start...
If you want to sell it it's worth whatever you can get for it, the more the better.
If you want to sell it, but can't, it's worthless, making it BoP will not raise it's value to someone who wants to sell it, only to someone who wants to keep it.
0
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited April 2014
I vote for Bind on Account.
Pros
1) Prevents oversaturation by praying alts on multi-accounts.
2) Makes them useful for one account's PCs.
3) Does not cheapen the commitment to gain one for the account.
4) Keeps them 'hard to get.'
Cons
1) Making AD by any game-approved means is rarely a bad thing.
2) Oversaturation of market with this epic may drive price down too low for epic companion (possible, unlikely, but possible)...Caturday and Stone of Radiance anyone??
3) May have blow back from the dedicated who are committed daily for a long time vs. temporary 'let me try this out' players.
4) Some players legitimately play more than one account and may want the Angel on the other account.
The concern for Botting is legitimate. Based on this and the tendency of the human heart towards unrestrained greed, I prefer a limited Bind on Account.
syka08Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2014
BoE.
This is a companion that you have to wait over a year for. Once you acquire it, having waited for sooooo **** long I'd like to test it out on preview before deciding whether or not it was worth the wait, or worth a profit to sell to those who haven't been around nearly as long.
And on the notes of it flooding the AH and devaluing it? Not a huge deal. It's a fairly worthless companion on its outset, except maybe for a purple roller in CTA. You really can't devalue it anymore than it already is by allowing it not to be traded in the free market. If anything, it makes it MORE valuable.
They could easily release an additional 360 price that's BtA for people like you. If you want a trophy than they could even make it one. Like a title. No biggie.
then perhaps the question is what items should be offered that they'd want to keep?
Excellent question. For a "top price" the Angel sure is underwhelming because it lacks usefulness. Give it a special active bonus (that benefits all classes equally) or an additional (or very powerful) SCA dice in example. I first thought about a purple augment, but that wouldn't cut it in all honesty because someone playing for (probably more than) a year should be long covered on that front.
Maybe try something completely different and give the companion a passive ability at level 30 that raises the quality of loot (or the chance to get a higher tier of loot). See Laprechaun just not with gold. That would absolutely justify BtA.
Or unlock at new dungeon/skirmish/dailies at 360 coins. I mean, it's really not that hard to make the price viable.
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mittensofdoomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 247Arc User
edited April 2014
Bind on Pickup but available to transfer within your own account
Considering that there have already been people profiting from this. It would be really uncool to change it suddenly. And honestly, I see no problem with people selling them. Its their coins, it took a lot of commitment to earn them. They should be able to do what the like with the results of that.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited April 2014
BoE. If you earned one, then do what you want with it. If someone wants to pay you some ridiculous amount of AD so they can parade it around, whatever. When enough people start having them and selling them that their market value collapses, them's the breaks too.
I'm still 34 days out from my first, and I'll decide what to do with it then. But that should be my choice, not one made for me based on an arbitrary change now.
Considering that there have already been people profiting from this. It would be really uncool to change it suddenly. And honestly, I see no problem with people selling them. Its their coins, it took a lot of commitment to earn them. They should be able to do what the like with the results of that.
I agree with this statement 100%.
Plus there is already far too many items that are already BoP. I understand that BoP helps to stabilize the in game economy but it is getting to the point where almost everything new is BoP and as the game progresses the old non BoP items will become less wanted and drop in prices anyway thus BoP can ultimately hurt as well as help.
Without an influx of new sellable items it wont be long before there is hardly anything worth selling short of zen items. And of course that will only help push away the free players that would otherwise buy the zen items for ADs thus destroying that market as well.
And of course, since it has been listed as BoE since the games release, to change it now would just be viewed as an act to push players towards buying zen since you would be removing yet another AD sellable item which obviously can drive players away also.
All in all I think it would be a really bad idea to change it now.
Although I would prefer to see them "Bound to Account", as I agree with the "keep them special" argument, there is yet another solution that might please everyone.
For characters who earn the item and keep it (bind it to themselves), the companion should have a special aura that identifies it as an "original". But if the item changes hands to someone else, no aura. This addresses the "keep it special" argument, since those that worked hard to earn it can be easily identified, yet allows it to be sold or traded by those who see more value that way.
And for the record, just because you work hard for an achievement, doesn't mean you get to make the rules about what the achievement means or what you can do with it. Everything in the game is defined by PWE, and is owned by PWE [yes -- they own everything, including the words you type and the Zen you purchase ... it all falls under the "proprietary property" clause of the TOS ... see section 5.1]
BoE. For the average player 360 coins is a lot, and since there's hardly any other useful use of those coins, we should at least be able to sell it in case we are just not interested in keeping one. I already bought my companions with zen and I don't want others, I didn't save coins for a year to have one more idle companion in my inventory.
A market collapse sounds an exaggeration to me (plus this game had/s bigger companion problems, people are still selling stones...), if bots could create such problem, the solution should not affect normal players.
And yes I'm sad that this thread even exists. If someone had a problem with BoE they should have thought about it before, the game wasn't released yesterday, I'm angry that a change is even considered at this point in time. As there are people who saved coins to have this "special" thing, there are also people who saved with the purpose of selling it for something they care more about.
Edit:
I would also like to bring out another problem. What about those who really want the angel, but decided to spend their coins and buy it with AD instead? Way to tell them "you just wait another year bro' ", it's just a year no big deal...
Worrying about it flooding the markets? Really? This is something you have to have been actively logging in and invoking at least once a day for almost a year. I'm betting the average player has not done so. I know I'm not even close to having enough AC on my oldest character (who started in open beta).
And then, when you do buy it, it's another year of waiting. Multiple characters? Still, that's one per character per year. There is no way that's going to flood and devalue.
There's enough stuff that's already BoP. I say let these remain as BoE. We aren't going to have another Caturday from it.
I think it should stay BoE and I think all future items from the coins should be BoE. I think it's a good idea to let the player choose what they do with their reward and how they profit from it. For me, I'll profit by add the angel to my companion collection, but if someone else wants to sell it then so be it. The more we can trade in game, the better imo.
Bind on Pickup is a bit harsh - what if my first character turns out not to be my favorite, but is the one who earns the Angel first?
Bind on Equip? NOOOOO! This makes it sellable, which under normal circumstances would be fine and would be my primary choice, HOWEVER, there are a LOT of farming bots in NW and as the minority of people have said, once these Angels start being issued en-masse, they will begin flooding the Auction House.
A flood of Angels in the AH isn't such a problem in itself, but it *cheapens* the genuine sentimental and 'special' value of that Companion. I've been working my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ off for more than a YEAR to earn that thing. We already know it's no better than any other Companion, but it is a STATUS SYMBOL. There's no other reason to sport one.
If I start seeing them in large amounts in the Auction House (I know: they're already starting to appear) - I'll seriously give up trying to earn them because their value diminishes more for each one found in AH.
Because when I'm running around in world with my Angel that I've busted my butt to earn, others will see it and just think "Pffft: he just bought one in the AH, must have a lot of AD to burn". I don't want THAT. I want people to know I have been a dedicated player for as long as it takes to earn that angel.
Right now it's a coveted companion for it's achievement status. Keeping it BoE will make it "just another companion".
Bound to Account. This is a picture perfect response. ^^^ What Sprite said! ^^^
Bound to Account. This is a picture perfect response. ^^^ What Sprite said! ^^^
No, no it is not. Do we honestly want another batch of "lucky" players? Players who by virtue of choices made over the course of a year, are allowed to do what they wanted with thier coins. While everyone else just has to accept change?
That is simply not fair. Its much to late to change it now. To go 300+ days into this and then suddenly change the results. Right before a lot of day one vets are very close to cashing in. Is the very defination of grossly unfair. The very fact, that this is even a debate and considered, after all this time. Is down right shocking and upsetting.
No, no it is not. Do we honestly want another batch of "lucky" players? Players who by virtue of choices made over the course of a year, are allowed to do what they wanted with thier coins. While everyone else just has to accept change?
That is simply not fair. Its much to late to change it now. To go 300+ days into this and then suddenly change the results. Right before a lot of day one vets are very close to cashing in. Is the very defination of grossly unfair. The very fact, that this is even a debate and considered, after all this time. Is down right shocking and upsetting.
Pretty much this , it is far too late in the day to make the Angel suddenly bound in any way , make future rewards bound by all means if you really have to or even add an alternative to go along with the angel that is bound from day one but to change the Angel now would be grossly unfair.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited April 2014
How about another option then as a compromise: Add new cheaper options for BoA/BoP Angels.
I hate the fact that the Angel is BoE. It makes it so I will never have one because I can't not justify keeping one over selling it for the AD. I agree it should never have been BoE but to me I would rather nip this in the behind now that there's only a few around rather than leave it as it is.
However adding both options should be pretty decent.
Perhaps for 180-270 Coins a Bound to Account version could exist.
Or better yet, 180 (half price) is BoP and 270 (3/4 price) could be BoA.
This would give the best of both worlds to both the people who do and do not want to feel inclined to sell their Angels. People who want to save time will still purchase then off of the AH. Six months is still a long time for BoP and nine months to be able to put it on various characters is still painful. The appeal to purchase will still very much be there.
How about another option then as a compromise: Add new cheaper options for BoA/BoP Angels.
I hate the fact that the Angel is BoE. It makes it so I will never have one because I can't not justify keeping one over selling it for the AD. I agree it should never have been BoE but to me I would rather nip this in the behind now that there's only a few around rather than leave it as it is.
However adding both options should be pretty decent.
Perhaps for 180-270 Coins a Bound to Account version could exist.
Or better yet, 180 (half price) is BoP and 270 (3/4 price) could be BoA.
This would give the best of both worlds to both the people who do and do not want to feel inclined to sell their Angels. People who want to save time will still purchase then off of the AH. Six months is still a long time for BoP and nine months to be able to put it on various characters is still painful. The appeal to purchase will still very much be there.
What do you guys think?
This right here sounds like an absolutely beautiful compromise to me.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited April 2014
I like adding choices and dislike taking them away, so no complaints regarding that idea.
obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
edited April 2014
Should be able to sell it, otherwise I'd like it account wide. After all, the reward is
for sticking with the game for a year. Not everyone has time, or thought to,
create alternate characters.
It'll be quite expensive to buy on AH, but if you stuck with the game this long, it
could also be your pay day.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
Bound-on-account -> O~K
Bound-on-pickup -> It's mean T_T! (my fav character is too young to get one herself and oldest do not fit angel nor even have much use for it)
Bound-on-equip -> PLEASE NO!
There were a lot of reasonable things said about why not make it Bound-on-equip. Farm-bots and AH Flood might be a good ones. Do not be deluded that it will skyrocket price! SERIOUSLY! I'm Econometrics Bachelor and from what I've seen so far since open beta about Neverwinter market, and number of possible farm-bots: prices won't go beyond 2mil due to possible numerous angels hitting market in same time. For me: it's not PAYDAY... more like a slap in the face since it's really one of hardest things to get in Neverwinter. Seeing it not an achievement but merely /meh, it's bought/ thing would not be good in my opinion.
I do get though idea why Bound-on-equip is most popular. Some of my friends said that it'll "surely be freakin' expensive". But no... it won't. I imagine it going down to maybe 800k AD fairly easily and for a rather semi-permanent period of time. Yet it's doubtfully considered by most players getting close and considering their effort unique.
The option of making Angel not BoA but Account-Wide put a bit of smile on myself . I do know it might be a bit pushy but lets think about it. This companion is really useful for a minor level characters as it is powerful healer. Making it Account-Wide may encourage veteran players to try out new characters with all the useful help AND prestige of such an amazing companion! Would that not be sweet?! If and once Paladin hits the game I would love nothing more than walk one with Angel beside me and Account-Wide option would be only choice making it possible. As such it... haves undeniable allure, and probably fits the most definition of achievement.
I must also remind that high end 60lvls still would use and find more useful augmentation companions while it counts mostly I guess. Why? Cause immensely buffed companion of such type is massive help for character ... probably best one. Here once again my idea of making it account-wide (really seems better the more I think bout it). It won't kill buying other companions. Passive skills, looks, collect-ability and possible use of 'points' we get for them is good enough to keep all rolling for even 1 year old hardcore players and I remind that those who did not spent whole year in game won't have angel and would need use other means... hmm...
"You stand as inspiration. You are practically the Avatar of Buttkicking." -Quote towards Minsc "I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
I don't mind if the Angels are Bound to Account as long as everything on the coin list is also. My toons that will use the Angels will get them. The others would rather wait and see what else comes along and give to my main characters with the Angels.
if people keep or sell it is up to them. The only reason I see for it to be bind on pickup would be if it was actually good enough for end game, witch it isnt.
Comments
Easily solved by Cryptic announcing that there will be a superior BoA Purple companions at some stage in the near future.
2) Your time, your coins, your choice.
Now, that's going to sound harsh, but bots aren't my problem. It's cryptic's problem, and they better deal with it without bothering the legitimate players, who may get a bit pissed if they start making the game a hell to play just to prevent botting (which is in this case probably done by humans anyway). They are developpers, and there are many smart people at cryptic. I'm sure they can find some solutions to the bot issues. Someone to watch PE zone chat, lfg and trade to issue bans would be a good start...
If you want to sell it, but can't, it's worthless, making it BoP will not raise it's value to someone who wants to sell it, only to someone who wants to keep it.
Pros
1) Prevents oversaturation by praying alts on multi-accounts.
2) Makes them useful for one account's PCs.
3) Does not cheapen the commitment to gain one for the account.
4) Keeps them 'hard to get.'
Cons
1) Making AD by any game-approved means is rarely a bad thing.
2) Oversaturation of market with this epic may drive price down too low for epic companion (possible, unlikely, but possible)...Caturday and Stone of Radiance anyone??
3) May have blow back from the dedicated who are committed daily for a long time vs. temporary 'let me try this out' players.
4) Some players legitimately play more than one account and may want the Angel on the other account.
The concern for Botting is legitimate. Based on this and the tendency of the human heart towards unrestrained greed, I prefer a limited Bind on Account.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
This is a companion that you have to wait over a year for. Once you acquire it, having waited for sooooo **** long I'd like to test it out on preview before deciding whether or not it was worth the wait, or worth a profit to sell to those who haven't been around nearly as long.
And on the notes of it flooding the AH and devaluing it? Not a huge deal. It's a fairly worthless companion on its outset, except maybe for a purple roller in CTA. You really can't devalue it anymore than it already is by allowing it not to be traded in the free market. If anything, it makes it MORE valuable.
They could easily release an additional 360 price that's BtA for people like you. If you want a trophy than they could even make it one. Like a title. No biggie.
Excellent question. For a "top price" the Angel sure is underwhelming because it lacks usefulness. Give it a special active bonus (that benefits all classes equally) or an additional (or very powerful) SCA dice in example. I first thought about a purple augment, but that wouldn't cut it in all honesty because someone playing for (probably more than) a year should be long covered on that front.
Maybe try something completely different and give the companion a passive ability at level 30 that raises the quality of loot (or the chance to get a higher tier of loot). See Laprechaun just not with gold. That would absolutely justify BtA.
Or unlock at new dungeon/skirmish/dailies at 360 coins. I mean, it's really not that hard to make the price viable.
I'm still 34 days out from my first, and I'll decide what to do with it then. But that should be my choice, not one made for me based on an arbitrary change now.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I agree with this statement 100%.
Plus there is already far too many items that are already BoP. I understand that BoP helps to stabilize the in game economy but it is getting to the point where almost everything new is BoP and as the game progresses the old non BoP items will become less wanted and drop in prices anyway thus BoP can ultimately hurt as well as help.
Without an influx of new sellable items it wont be long before there is hardly anything worth selling short of zen items. And of course that will only help push away the free players that would otherwise buy the zen items for ADs thus destroying that market as well.
And of course, since it has been listed as BoE since the games release, to change it now would just be viewed as an act to push players towards buying zen since you would be removing yet another AD sellable item which obviously can drive players away also.
All in all I think it would be a really bad idea to change it now.
For characters who earn the item and keep it (bind it to themselves), the companion should have a special aura that identifies it as an "original". But if the item changes hands to someone else, no aura. This addresses the "keep it special" argument, since those that worked hard to earn it can be easily identified, yet allows it to be sold or traded by those who see more value that way.
And for the record, just because you work hard for an achievement, doesn't mean you get to make the rules about what the achievement means or what you can do with it. Everything in the game is defined by PWE, and is owned by PWE [yes -- they own everything, including the words you type and the Zen you purchase ... it all falls under the "proprietary property" clause of the TOS ... see section 5.1]
QED.
A market collapse sounds an exaggeration to me (plus this game had/s bigger companion problems, people are still selling stones...), if bots could create such problem, the solution should not affect normal players.
And yes I'm sad that this thread even exists. If someone had a problem with BoE they should have thought about it before, the game wasn't released yesterday, I'm angry that a change is even considered at this point in time. As there are people who saved coins to have this "special" thing, there are also people who saved with the purpose of selling it for something they care more about.
Edit:
I would also like to bring out another problem. What about those who really want the angel, but decided to spend their coins and buy it with AD instead? Way to tell them "you just wait another year bro' ", it's just a year no big deal...
And then, when you do buy it, it's another year of waiting. Multiple characters? Still, that's one per character per year. There is no way that's going to flood and devalue.
There's enough stuff that's already BoP. I say let these remain as BoE. We aren't going to have another Caturday from it.
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Bound to Account. This is a picture perfect response. ^^^ What Sprite said! ^^^
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I have a couple of characters that I created at the very start of this game.
They are built poorly, as I didn't know what worked well at the time.
The ONLY reason they exist is because Ive had them logging and collecting coin for the angel to pass to newer, more effective, toons.
It would kind of stink to have had done all that logging and praying for nothing.
BTA would be fine with me, however.
I added a Bound-on-account option to the pull. Thanks!
No, no it is not. Do we honestly want another batch of "lucky" players? Players who by virtue of choices made over the course of a year, are allowed to do what they wanted with thier coins. While everyone else just has to accept change?
That is simply not fair. Its much to late to change it now. To go 300+ days into this and then suddenly change the results. Right before a lot of day one vets are very close to cashing in. Is the very defination of grossly unfair. The very fact, that this is even a debate and considered, after all this time. Is down right shocking and upsetting.
Pretty much this , it is far too late in the day to make the Angel suddenly bound in any way , make future rewards bound by all means if you really have to or even add an alternative to go along with the angel that is bound from day one but to change the Angel now would be grossly unfair.
I hate the fact that the Angel is BoE. It makes it so I will never have one because I can't not justify keeping one over selling it for the AD. I agree it should never have been BoE but to me I would rather nip this in the behind now that there's only a few around rather than leave it as it is.
However adding both options should be pretty decent.
Perhaps for 180-270 Coins a Bound to Account version could exist.
Or better yet, 180 (half price) is BoP and 270 (3/4 price) could be BoA.
This would give the best of both worlds to both the people who do and do not want to feel inclined to sell their Angels. People who want to save time will still purchase then off of the AH. Six months is still a long time for BoP and nine months to be able to put it on various characters is still painful. The appeal to purchase will still very much be there.
What do you guys think?
****. i already voted for BoE, but I'd vote for BoA if I could change it This right here sounds like an absolutely beautiful compromise to me.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
for sticking with the game for a year. Not everyone has time, or thought to,
create alternate characters.
It'll be quite expensive to buy on AH, but if you stuck with the game this long, it
could also be your pay day.
Bound-on-pickup -> It's mean T_T! (my fav character is too young to get one herself and oldest do not fit angel nor even have much use for it)
Bound-on-equip -> PLEASE NO!
There were a lot of reasonable things said about why not make it Bound-on-equip. Farm-bots and AH Flood might be a good ones. Do not be deluded that it will skyrocket price! SERIOUSLY! I'm Econometrics Bachelor and from what I've seen so far since open beta about Neverwinter market, and number of possible farm-bots: prices won't go beyond 2mil due to possible numerous angels hitting market in same time. For me: it's not PAYDAY... more like a slap in the face since it's really one of hardest things to get in Neverwinter. Seeing it not an achievement but merely /meh, it's bought/ thing would not be good in my opinion.
I do get though idea why Bound-on-equip is most popular. Some of my friends said that it'll "surely be freakin' expensive". But no... it won't. I imagine it going down to maybe 800k AD fairly easily and for a rather semi-permanent period of time. Yet it's doubtfully considered by most players getting close and considering their effort unique.
The option of making Angel not BoA but Account-Wide put a bit of smile on myself
I must also remind that high end 60lvls still would use and find more useful augmentation companions while it counts mostly I guess. Why? Cause immensely buffed companion of such type is massive help for character ... probably best one. Here once again my idea of making it account-wide
Those are my thoughts.
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