if people keep or sell it is up to them. The only reason I see for it to be bind on pickup would be if it was actually good enough for end game, witch it isnt.
I agree with the majority. After a year of dedicated invoking, we should be able to sell or keep the angel, as we see fit. Since I have 2 characters that will be able to get them in June, I think, I may keep one. Both if they prove useful.
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syka08Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How about another option then as a compromise: Add new cheaper options for BoA/BoP Angels.
I hate the fact that the Angel is BoE. It makes it so I will never have one because I can't not justify keeping one over selling it for the AD. I agree it should never have been BoE but to me I would rather nip this in the behind now that there's only a few around rather than leave it as it is.
However adding both options should be pretty decent.
Perhaps for 180-270 Coins a Bound to Account version could exist.
Or better yet, 180 (half price) is BoP and 270 (3/4 price) could be BoA.
This would give the best of both worlds to both the people who do and do not want to feel inclined to sell their Angels. People who want to save time will still purchase then off of the AH. Six months is still a long time for BoP and nine months to be able to put it on various characters is still painful. The appeal to purchase will still very much be there.
What do you guys think?
So you're proposing to take the main proponent of the BoA (please no BoP) argument of it being a status symbol and devaluing it greatly? Well, I guess that could work out for some of us who are almost at the year mark who could then purchase 2 (again, so long as its not BoP -smh-).
You actually don't address the selling side of the coin, unless you're banking on us making the assumption that at 360 it'll stay BoE? (I might have missed something) Either way, half price for BoA (not BoP) I could get behind. Otherwise if the price stays at 360, Keep it BoE and let the market sort itself out.
contents to be decided
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anarcroth2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2014
Bound-on-pickup off curse ...
bound on equip will be good only for diamonds sellers who have 50 accounts and use to farm AD etc ...
Angel need to be a proof you are here since the begining
If a kid can buy it with credit card's father at the first day , why should we stay 360 days on that game ? no sens ... put it directly on zen market so ...
that is just disgusting to let it go to market
That means there is NOTHING you can have when you are loyal to the game , you can have all with a credit card on the first day , yeah
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
bound on equip will be good only for diamonds sellers who have 50 accounts and use to farm AD etc ...
Angel need to be a proof you are here since the begining
If a kid can buy it with credit card's father at the first day , why should we stay 360 days on that game ? no sens ... put it directly on zen market so ...
that is just disgusting to let it go to market
That means there is NOTHING you can have when you are loyal to the game , you can have all with a credit card on the first day , yeah
If I put in the requisite time to invoke each day, and to eventually "earn" the angel, then I should also be able to do whatever I like with it - whether that's to equip it, send it to a alt, give it away, or sell it. These options are, in a sense, my reward for sticking with the game. If I am forced to take the angel on the character that logged 360 daily invocations, then I probably wouldn't even bother to claim it - it may be useful for some characters and useless on others - so let me retain some choice in how and where I use my reward...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
If I put in the requisite time to invoke each day, and to eventually "earn" the angel, then I should also be able to do whatever I like with it - whether that's to equip it, send it to a alt, give it away, or sell it. These options are, in a sense, my reward for sticking with the game. If I am forced to take the angel on the character that logged 360 daily invocations, then I probably wouldn't even bother to claim it - it may be useful for some characters and useless on others - so let me retain some choice in how and where I use my reward...
I have been enough on the internet to understand by whom the famous story about "the kid with his father's credit card" is told. There's no need to prove them wrong, since a characteristic of this group of people is their tendency to KO themselves.
I have been enough on the internet to understand by whom the famous story about "the kid with his father's credit card" is told. There's no need to prove them wrong, since a characteristic of this group of people is their tendency to KO themselves.
Ad hominem.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
If all these people want is some silly badge as proof the amazing task of invoking for a year. Simply give them a badge, title, or giant attachable e-peen when the 360 coins are collected. Just dont dictate to me, how or what I can do with mine.
If all these people want is some silly badge as proof the amazing task of invoking for a year. Simply give them a badge, title, or giant attachable e-peen when the 360 coins are collected. Just dont dictate to me, how or what I can do with mine.
i understand what you're saying, however don't you also see that there is an unfair advantage to be able to sell this item for those that have been playing the game the longest. as more and more people decide to sell their angel on the AH, the price will drop exponentially where the first few players will have made a killing and later-starters won't make quite as much. people that are closer to 360 AC are going to be pushing for BoE especially people that aren't necessarily concerned about collecting companions or even care about companions at all. which is why i suggested a more diverse selection. what's the point in having an ardent coins store in the first place if you're just going to sell it? they might as well just offer an AD reward in addition to the angel and whatever else they want to offer. at least if they did that and made all items BtA, it would be fair across the board.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
i understand what you're saying, however don't you also see that there is an unfair advantage to be able to sell this item for those that have been playing the game the longest. as more and more people decide to sell their angel on the AH, the price will drop exponentially where the first few players will have made a killing and later-starters won't make quite as much. people that are closer to 360 AC are going to be pushing for BoE especially people that aren't necessarily concerned about collecting companions or even care about companions at all. which is why i suggested a more diverse selection. what's the point in having an ardent coins store in the first place if you're just going to sell it? they might as well just offer an AD reward in addition to the angel and whatever else they want to offer. at least if they did that and made all items BtA, it would be fair across the board.
Couldn't the same be argued for those that had access to earlier lockboxes which are no longer available? Or what about people who were able to farm those time-limited events for items? I mean, during the latest Lillend promo, they dropped to as little as 200k at on point - having to wait 360 days (or at least 360 x whatever the reset timer on ardent coins is) is a fairly long time to wait for a return on your "investment".
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm just concerned there are a couple of entities out there with programs to help them manage praying with 1000 characters per day and will flood the market with these angels. Where does the AD go to? Nefarious sites/places of course.
i understand what you're saying, however don't you also see that there is an unfair advantage to be able to sell this item for those that have been playing the game the longest.
Those who have been playing the game the longest, will ALWAYS have an advantage. Being experience, gear, boons, or any combination of this. One pet isnt going to change that. Frankly, those who put in the time and dedication to be first SHOULD have that rewarded. And its not like late comers completely miss out. Sure the price will drop in time, but it will always be a fairly rare item. Despite predictions of doom. And therefore always have some measure of value.
Letting late comers have a choice to sell or not, if even at a reduced price. At least offers some measure of balance. Rather then simply telling them no, your choice is removed now. And only the most priviliedged and advanced players got a chance to profit from it. If the question is, what is fair? Then this is simply the most unfair option there is.
Those who have been playing the game the longest, will ALWAYS have an advantage. Being experience, gear, boons, or any combination of this. One pet isnt going to change that. Frankly, those who put in the time and dedication to be first SHOULD have that rewarded. And its not like late comers completely miss out. Sure the price will drop in time, but it will always be a fairly rare item. Despite predictions of doom. And therefore always have some measure of value.
Letting late comers have a choice to sell or not, if even at a reduced price. At least offers some measure of balance. Rather then simply telling them no, your choice is removed now. And only the most priviliedged and advanced players got a chance to profit from it. If the question is, what is fair? Then this is simply the most unfair option there is.
you're right except the advantage of time invested by experience/gear/boons/etc is not the same as the advantage of being among the first to sell a rare item. i can put in the time and eventually get the same experience/gear/boons/etc but i can never get the advantage of being one of the first to sell an angel of protection.
with my proposal, late comers will have the same choices as most of the core player base.
you're right except the advantage of time invested by experience/gear/boons/etc is not the same as the advantage of being among the first to sell a rare item. i can put in the time and eventually get the same experience/gear/boons/etc but i can never get the advantage of being one of the first to sell an angel of protection.
with my proposal, late comers will have the same choices as most of the core player base.
But as bio already pointed out. The entire game is based on a whole first wins concept. Look at all the events, with rewards that are easy to miss. And no promise that they will ever return. Folks miss out, it happens. But at least if things stay as they are EVERYONE gets a choice on what they can do with their coins. You are, in effect, advocating for a system with a very tiny set of pure winners, and everyone else missing out...how is that even remotely fair?
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited April 2014
. . . It should be bound to account when claimed and then bind to the character when equipped.
. . . Also, everything in game that is currently bind on pickup should be changed to this, so they bind to account on pickup but only bind to the character when equipped.
. . . I'm just wondering why people are making a fuss now, for the Angel has said since launch, that it was Bind on Equip in it's tool tip description. Personally, I couldn't care any less if it were to remain BoE or be changed. My only concern is that there are far too many BoP things already in this game and all of that or anything in the future that would be or is BoP, should instead be BtA and then BoE when equipped. This BoP mentality and marketing needs to stop.
If this is considered THE grand price of the game then I agree you want to keep its value steady.
But: At the same time people that invested more time (earlier) than others also should have an advantage. I think a player that stuck with the game since BETA should be rewarded more than a random player that started in February. That's what happens in many other areas anyway. The value of Profession Packs decreased substantially over time during the Lillend event, because the companion dropped from like 1.8M to 200k. Late comers were screwed or have to wait for the market to recover.
The solution for players that want the Angel to be BtA/BoP because they don't want the symbolism of the Angel to be spoiled by people not earning but buying it is simple: Introduce a title or a series of titles that are granted when a certain amount of Ardent Coins has been spend.
I think introducing more variety at 360 (or even more) is a good start. An AD reward for those that absolutely want to profit off their time investment is a must if the Angel becomes BoP, but I don't want to be the one balancing an amount that is attractive enough for a reward and unattractive enough to exploit it. I also can't overstate that the problem wouldn't be nearly as big if the Angel had end-game viability.
Yes, and he will hardly get any better treatment. I would tell you a lot about this but unfortunately it would become too long and it's not the place. But let me tell you that 10 years ago I was defending exactly his argument, and today I'm happy that I got treated bad for that, I eventually got to the point where I start thinking why.
As for anyone who present BoP or BoA as the only options, I think they limit their perspective to only what is convenient to them. They speak as if the angel wouldn't already be BoE since the beginning. In front of this, their assumption of the angel being something special is and was always wrong.
I don't think anyone who read my 1st post on this thread would vote bop/a and still say that they don't do it only for themselves,unless they prefer to answer the last question in that post.
Anyway I still have a hard time understanding the "why" of this thread. Unless of course cryptic already intends to make the angel BoP and then put it in the zen store as an "alternative way to get it". In that case the opinions on this thread would be used as an excuse, and that yes would be another one of those "bad last moment cryptic move".
Of yourse they are thinking about taking away BoE. Otherwise this poll would make no sense. It's more a "fight for BoE" thread than "please reason why it should be BoP/BtA".
But as bio already pointed out. The entire game is based on a whole first wins concept. Look at all the events, with rewards that are easy to miss. And no promise that they will ever return. Folks miss out, it happens. But at least if things stay as they are EVERYONE gets a choice on what they can do with their coins. You are, in effect, advocating for a system with a very tiny set of pure winners, and everyone else missing out...how is that even remotely fair?
because the investment is not a gamble. if you invoke daily for 360 days, you will get the angel of protection. making them BtA and then BtC when equipped or providing a wider reward collection, everybody wins equally instead of allowing for "the elite winners circle".
allowing a reward that took someone 360 days to achieve to be sold also allows individuals to buy these items and not earn them. i completely disagree with that.
because the investment is not a gamble. if you invoke daily for 360 days, you will get the angel of protection. making them BtA and then BtC when equipped or providing a wider reward collection, everybody wins equally instead of allowing for "the elite winners circle".
allowing a reward that took someone 360 days to achieve to be sold also allows individuals to buy these items and not earn them. i completely disagree with that.
I would like to sell my 360 day reward, do you mind that? It's not useful to me, I kept the coins with the intend to sell since the beginning, because I bought the companions I needed from the zen store.
Other people might have spent their coins thinking they will be able to buy it for AD or maybe gold, do you mind that too? How do people from this last group "win equally"?
How does BoE make your angel less useful? If you want to keep it, other's trading has no effect on you.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited April 2014
. . . Personally, I couldn't care any less if it were to remain BoE or be changed. My only concern is that there are far too many BoP things already in this game and all of that or anything in the future that would be or is BoP, should instead be BtA and then BoE when equipped. This BoP mentality and marketing needs to stop.
I would like to sell my 360 day reward, do you mind that? It's not useful to me, I kept the coins with the intend to sell since the beginning, because I bought the companions I needed from the zen store.
Other people might have spent their coins thinking they will be able to buy it for AD or maybe gold, do you mind that too? How do people from this last group "win equally"?
How does BoE make your angel less useful? If you want to keep it, other's trading has no effect on you.
selling your 360 day reward allows others who did not earn the reward to purchase it. also, early sellers are going to benefit much more than later sellers as the market becomes more and more flooded with these items.
if it is not useful to you, as i suspect the reward's value varies from person to person, then other 360 coin options should be made available.
it does have an effect on me as it has an effect on everyone that is a part of the same community. if i am able sell my reward tomorrow for 7 million, but by the time someone that started playing in december has enough coins for the reward, they can only sell the item for half that or less depending on the market and AH under cutters. that's giving an unfair advantage to someone based on when they started playing the game in my opinion.
In a way it would be nice to have it as a special token that was BtA (definitely not BtC). However the fact that some have already got angels and managed to profit a lot from it is kind of unfair just because he got in first. Of course the value will fall so as more people get it, so does it's value. But I don't see why a few should be able to profit form it while noone else can. Especially if they didn't really want it anyway. People may have been saving up for the reason that it always said it was BoE. Kind of a kick in the nuts to change it just as they can finally get it.
Personally I got the celestial transmute for my cw off the cw even though I could've bought it for my coins instead since I got a reasonable deal and they made a bit of ad.
selling your 360 day reward allows others who did not earn the reward to purchase it. also, early sellers are going to benefit much more than later sellers as the market becomes more and more flooded with these items.
if it is not useful to you, as i suspect the reward's value varies from person to person, then other 360 coin options should be made available.
it does have an effect on me as it has an effect on everyone that is a part of the same community. if i am able sell my reward tomorrow for 7 million, but by the time someone that started playing in december has enough coins for the reward, they can only sell the item for half that or less depending on the market and AH under cutters. that's giving an unfair advantage to someone based on when they started playing the game in my opinion.
It is not an unfair advantage, it happens with every item. The first artifacts, the first new mounts, lucky coins and bla bla, oh my god, it's just normal. Also your idea about investments not being a gamble....what can I say maybe you live in another universe.
An unfair advantage is the people that are still selling ioun stones of radiance all day, it's nice that no one complains about that, and they don't seem to get banned or something. There are so many things to fix and you're here to complain about something that's not even a problem. Why now? Why didn't you or anyone else supporting your argument came up with this more time ago? I mean it's been a year...
Plus you (again) avoided the inconvenient questions, if you're going against my argument then answer to every point, not just to the easy ones.
What you keep calling "unfair advantage" is not valid, it's just normal.
Other things that should be considered in this context:
Allow only one CN, VT, MC run per day. More runs are only possible if every other player on the server has also completed the dungeon in question.
Before the Draco fight in Castle Never, the party leader can choose which revision of the fight he/she wants his group to compete against
Before the Fulminorax Fight in Malagob's Castle, the party leader can choose whether he/she wants to compete against an easy or mediocre mode. Easy mode will port the group under the dungeon, the mediocre mode despawns Valindra and she won't be a part of the fight.
Before the Valindra fight in her tower, the party leader can choose whether he/she wants to compete against the easy mode. It'll port the group under the dungeon.
All auctions should start at a 1 AD bid for retired lockboxes, their contents and event items. Additionally, these things shouldn't be auctioned as long as events are running. A buyout option will be available, but the buyout is automatically set to the average sell price of that item.
Every Monday from 8 PM to 8.30 PM PST, the Nightmare Lockbox should exclusively drop the Heavy Inferno Nightmare Mount. From 8.30 PM to 9.00 PM all Nightmare Lockboxes are transformed into Mystic Lockboxes dropping the Mystic Phoera and Heavy Mystic Nightmare.
The "Arcane Reservoir" quest in Sharandar can be shared between players. You are allowed to repeat the quest as much as you like for two weeks, but will receive a 3-10 day ban (depending on how much ZEN you invested into the game) after that period. You'll keep the Sparks though and are able repeat the process with new characters.
everybody wins equally instead of allowing for "the elite winners circle".
You are too late. There are already winners. And there will continue to be more, the longer this debate continues. The chance to stop this is over, you missed your chance to be fair, your way. That was months ago. To change it now, after people have already won, and as many more see their own goal just days away is not not even a tiny bit fair.
You can no longer cry FAIRNESS when the heart of the debate not about everyone. Its about deciding what day will be the day winners will still be winners and losers miss out, for good.
Hey guys, do you prefer to get 1000 free zen or no 1000 free zen?
Do you actually think this type of question will promote a good discussion about BOP/BOE and its effect on the economy?
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ikuruyoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 132Bounty Hunter
edited April 2014
Are you going to make the Frost Mimic BtA/BtC? It is also a companion that you could only get if you took part in an event for almost its entire length. Just because its only a green does not change that it was limited to one per character and has value for rarity as a result. The time required to acquire each one is also the same, it will be 1 year before you can get another copy of it, assuming that the rewards stay the same of course. It was also a fairly special item at the time it was acquired.
What you are considering is the same as changing the Mimic from BoE to BoA/BtC in the middle of the day when people could first aquire them. The ones that logged in early would have been able to sell them, but those that logged in later in the day would find that the reward they were saving for is now changed.
I plan to keep the first Angel I get. It is something I saved for for a long time. Any that I get after that I might sell, but the posting cost of something that expensive is so high that I can't really justify risking several 100kAD on an item that might not sell in the time frame of the auction. When I first started playing I looked at the Angel and thought "that looks cool, and its so powerful", I've been playing for close to a year now and when I look at it I now think "Thats neat, but mostly useless". The only reason I have so many of the coins is that i looked at the rest of the items offered and did not consider them to be worth the inventory space they would take up when i put them in the bank and ignore them. The Angel is probably really pretty to look at but I don't plan to use it for anything. The way I play I don't need healing in most any of the content, normally its only in the first time in a dungeon that I bother to use any healing potions.
Keep the Angel BoE, let people do what they want with it. I don't expect the price to change all that much, its still going to be very rare, and I can't see the point in limiting it this far down the line.
I have no problem with adding more items to the vault and making them BoP/BtA or to the adding of Veteran rewards. Even though Veteran Rewards are normally something granted in a game that has a paying subscription it seems that some people think they deserve to have other people look at them and think "oo that person has been playing a long time". Which isn't much more then their ego of wanting to impress others.
BTW: As long as you are making stuff BtA, would it kill you to put in an account bank? Its annoying to mail stuff back and forth.
Comments
So you're proposing to take the main proponent of the BoA (please no BoP) argument of it being a status symbol and devaluing it greatly? Well, I guess that could work out for some of us who are almost at the year mark who could then purchase 2 (again, so long as its not BoP -smh-).
You actually don't address the selling side of the coin, unless you're banking on us making the assumption that at 360 it'll stay BoE? (I might have missed something) Either way, half price for BoA (not BoP) I could get behind. Otherwise if the price stays at 360, Keep it BoE and let the market sort itself out.
bound on equip will be good only for diamonds sellers who have 50 accounts and use to farm AD etc ...
Angel need to be a proof you are here since the begining
If a kid can buy it with credit card's father at the first day , why should we stay 360 days on that game ? no sens ... put it directly on zen market so ...
that is just disgusting to let it go to market
That means there is NOTHING you can have when you are loyal to the game , you can have all with a credit card on the first day , yeah
If I put in the requisite time to invoke each day, and to eventually "earn" the angel, then I should also be able to do whatever I like with it - whether that's to equip it, send it to a alt, give it away, or sell it. These options are, in a sense, my reward for sticking with the game. If I am forced to take the angel on the character that logged 360 daily invocations, then I probably wouldn't even bother to claim it - it may be useful for some characters and useless on others - so let me retain some choice in how and where I use my reward...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I have another one: Should everyone get 1 free coalescent ward or not?
How about this, should everyone get 1000 free zen?
Ad hominem.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
i understand what you're saying, however don't you also see that there is an unfair advantage to be able to sell this item for those that have been playing the game the longest. as more and more people decide to sell their angel on the AH, the price will drop exponentially where the first few players will have made a killing and later-starters won't make quite as much. people that are closer to 360 AC are going to be pushing for BoE especially people that aren't necessarily concerned about collecting companions or even care about companions at all. which is why i suggested a more diverse selection. what's the point in having an ardent coins store in the first place if you're just going to sell it? they might as well just offer an AD reward in addition to the angel and whatever else they want to offer. at least if they did that and made all items BtA, it would be fair across the board.
Couldn't the same be argued for those that had access to earlier lockboxes which are no longer available? Or what about people who were able to farm those time-limited events for items? I mean, during the latest Lillend promo, they dropped to as little as 200k at on point - having to wait 360 days (or at least 360 x whatever the reset timer on ardent coins is) is a fairly long time to wait for a return on your "investment".
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Those who have been playing the game the longest, will ALWAYS have an advantage. Being experience, gear, boons, or any combination of this. One pet isnt going to change that. Frankly, those who put in the time and dedication to be first SHOULD have that rewarded. And its not like late comers completely miss out. Sure the price will drop in time, but it will always be a fairly rare item. Despite predictions of doom. And therefore always have some measure of value.
Letting late comers have a choice to sell or not, if even at a reduced price. At least offers some measure of balance. Rather then simply telling them no, your choice is removed now. And only the most priviliedged and advanced players got a chance to profit from it. If the question is, what is fair? Then this is simply the most unfair option there is.
you're right except the advantage of time invested by experience/gear/boons/etc is not the same as the advantage of being among the first to sell a rare item. i can put in the time and eventually get the same experience/gear/boons/etc but i can never get the advantage of being one of the first to sell an angel of protection.
with my proposal, late comers will have the same choices as most of the core player base.
But as bio already pointed out. The entire game is based on a whole first wins concept. Look at all the events, with rewards that are easy to miss. And no promise that they will ever return. Folks miss out, it happens. But at least if things stay as they are EVERYONE gets a choice on what they can do with their coins. You are, in effect, advocating for a system with a very tiny set of pure winners, and everyone else missing out...how is that even remotely fair?
. . . Also, everything in game that is currently bind on pickup should be changed to this, so they bind to account on pickup but only bind to the character when equipped.
. . . I'm just wondering why people are making a fuss now, for the Angel has said since launch, that it was Bind on Equip in it's tool tip description. Personally, I couldn't care any less if it were to remain BoE or be changed. My only concern is that there are far too many BoP things already in this game and all of that or anything in the future that would be or is BoP, should instead be BtA and then BoE when equipped. This BoP mentality and marketing needs to stop.
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But: At the same time people that invested more time (earlier) than others also should have an advantage. I think a player that stuck with the game since BETA should be rewarded more than a random player that started in February. That's what happens in many other areas anyway. The value of Profession Packs decreased substantially over time during the Lillend event, because the companion dropped from like 1.8M to 200k. Late comers were screwed or have to wait for the market to recover.
The solution for players that want the Angel to be BtA/BoP because they don't want the symbolism of the Angel to be spoiled by people not earning but buying it is simple: Introduce a title or a series of titles that are granted when a certain amount of Ardent Coins has been spend.
I think introducing more variety at 360 (or even more) is a good start. An AD reward for those that absolutely want to profit off their time investment is a must if the Angel becomes BoP, but I don't want to be the one balancing an amount that is attractive enough for a reward and unattractive enough to exploit it. I also can't overstate that the problem wouldn't be nearly as big if the Angel had end-game viability.
As for anyone who present BoP or BoA as the only options, I think they limit their perspective to only what is convenient to them. They speak as if the angel wouldn't already be BoE since the beginning. In front of this, their assumption of the angel being something special is and was always wrong.
I don't think anyone who read my 1st post on this thread would vote bop/a and still say that they don't do it only for themselves,unless they prefer to answer the last question in that post.
Anyway I still have a hard time understanding the "why" of this thread. Unless of course cryptic already intends to make the angel BoP and then put it in the zen store as an "alternative way to get it". In that case the opinions on this thread would be used as an excuse, and that yes would be another one of those "bad last moment cryptic move".
because the investment is not a gamble. if you invoke daily for 360 days, you will get the angel of protection. making them BtA and then BtC when equipped or providing a wider reward collection, everybody wins equally instead of allowing for "the elite winners circle".
allowing a reward that took someone 360 days to achieve to be sold also allows individuals to buy these items and not earn them. i completely disagree with that.
I would like to sell my 360 day reward, do you mind that? It's not useful to me, I kept the coins with the intend to sell since the beginning, because I bought the companions I needed from the zen store.
Other people might have spent their coins thinking they will be able to buy it for AD or maybe gold, do you mind that too? How do people from this last group "win equally"?
How does BoE make your angel less useful? If you want to keep it, other's trading has no effect on you.
. . . Personally, I couldn't care any less if it were to remain BoE or be changed. My only concern is that there are far too many BoP things already in this game and all of that or anything in the future that would be or is BoP, should instead be BtA and then BoE when equipped. This BoP mentality and marketing needs to stop.
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selling your 360 day reward allows others who did not earn the reward to purchase it. also, early sellers are going to benefit much more than later sellers as the market becomes more and more flooded with these items.
if it is not useful to you, as i suspect the reward's value varies from person to person, then other 360 coin options should be made available.
it does have an effect on me as it has an effect on everyone that is a part of the same community. if i am able sell my reward tomorrow for 7 million, but by the time someone that started playing in december has enough coins for the reward, they can only sell the item for half that or less depending on the market and AH under cutters. that's giving an unfair advantage to someone based on when they started playing the game in my opinion.
Personally I got the celestial transmute for my cw off the cw even though I could've bought it for my coins instead since I got a reasonable deal and they made a bit of ad.
It is not an unfair advantage, it happens with every item. The first artifacts, the first new mounts, lucky coins and bla bla, oh my god, it's just normal. Also your idea about investments not being a gamble....what can I say maybe you live in another universe.
An unfair advantage is the people that are still selling ioun stones of radiance all day, it's nice that no one complains about that, and they don't seem to get banned or something. There are so many things to fix and you're here to complain about something that's not even a problem. Why now? Why didn't you or anyone else supporting your argument came up with this more time ago? I mean it's been a year...
Plus you (again) avoided the inconvenient questions, if you're going against my argument then answer to every point, not just to the easy ones.
What you keep calling "unfair advantage" is not valid, it's just normal.
Late comers should never miss out again!
You are too late. There are already winners. And there will continue to be more, the longer this debate continues. The chance to stop this is over, you missed your chance to be fair, your way. That was months ago. To change it now, after people have already won, and as many more see their own goal just days away is not not even a tiny bit fair.
You can no longer cry FAIRNESS when the heart of the debate not about everyone. Its about deciding what day will be the day winners will still be winners and losers miss out, for good.
Do you actually think this type of question will promote a good discussion about BOP/BOE and its effect on the economy?
What you are considering is the same as changing the Mimic from BoE to BoA/BtC in the middle of the day when people could first aquire them. The ones that logged in early would have been able to sell them, but those that logged in later in the day would find that the reward they were saving for is now changed.
I plan to keep the first Angel I get. It is something I saved for for a long time. Any that I get after that I might sell, but the posting cost of something that expensive is so high that I can't really justify risking several 100kAD on an item that might not sell in the time frame of the auction. When I first started playing I looked at the Angel and thought "that looks cool, and its so powerful", I've been playing for close to a year now and when I look at it I now think "Thats neat, but mostly useless". The only reason I have so many of the coins is that i looked at the rest of the items offered and did not consider them to be worth the inventory space they would take up when i put them in the bank and ignore them. The Angel is probably really pretty to look at but I don't plan to use it for anything. The way I play I don't need healing in most any of the content, normally its only in the first time in a dungeon that I bother to use any healing potions.
Keep the Angel BoE, let people do what they want with it. I don't expect the price to change all that much, its still going to be very rare, and I can't see the point in limiting it this far down the line.
I have no problem with adding more items to the vault and making them BoP/BtA or to the adding of Veteran rewards. Even though Veteran Rewards are normally something granted in a game that has a paying subscription it seems that some people think they deserve to have other people look at them and think "oo that person has been playing a long time". Which isn't much more then their ego of wanting to impress others.
BTW: As long as you are making stuff BtA, would it kill you to put in an account bank? Its annoying to mail stuff back and forth.