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The cap for AD exchange with ZEN needs to be increased and....
quspiv
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
It needs to increase each time we get we new mod on top of tht. Current cap made sense a while ago, but the more time pass the more AD people gather and the less this cap actually matter. In the past it was possible to buy AD way below 500 ZEN. Now there's so much AD on the market that buying even for 499 is nearly impossible.
This is mostly due to not enough AD sinks and the prices in AH also prove it. Certain AD exploits probably had some impact on it as well.
Imo the cap needs to be increased to at least 1000 from current 500 and each time we get new mod it should increase by additional ~200. As it is buying ZEN to exchange is pretty much not worth it, because with the amount of AD that you can get from it there's not much you can do. The only use of ZEN come for some items from the ZEN store. (I suspect that PWE or Cryptic may actually throw some to prevent the huge backlog)
Higher cap will also hit all the gold sellers.
This is mostly due to not enough AD sinks and the prices in AH also prove it. Certain AD exploits probably had some impact on it as well.
Imo the cap needs to be increased to at least 1000 from current 500 and each time we get new mod it should increase by additional ~200. As it is buying ZEN to exchange is pretty much not worth it, because with the amount of AD that you can get from it there's not much you can do. The only use of ZEN come for some items from the ZEN store. (I suspect that PWE or Cryptic may actually throw some to prevent the huge backlog)
Higher cap will also hit all the gold sellers.
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wealth difference between old players and new players will increase.
Instead, let's reduce the incoming AD.
nerf leadering farms.
Start by putting a limit on daily AD refine per account.
No it's the other way around. The smaller the cap the more ZEN they can buy with exploited AD. What you're missing is that most of them were BIS few weeks after m6 started so they could care less.
Are you implying that all new players are F2P and that servers run on wind?
Problem is, many players have multiple accounts which means they could bypass the limit. They could change leadership to reward lot's of RP points instead of AD. However, the issue of existing AD still needs to be adressed.
If you want to make a point, just make your point without asking ridiculous questions.
It's harder to farm leadership on multiple accounts, since you must log in and out of every account and not only change character.
Sharing AD between accounts is more difficult compared to within an account.
I only have one account but based on what people have told me, and from what I have seen on the AH, to move AD between accounts, the common way is to buy/sell something on AH which results in 10% AD loss. Ideally, cryptic would nerf leadership of people who have multiple accounts, or even ban some players with many accounts, but first, cryptic can start by nerfing leadership per account.
If leadership farmers starting making RP instead of AD, it will be an improvement.
If your main concern is how much Zen (and AD) can be obtained per real money purchase, then instead, just ask Cryptic to lower zen prices.
There's nothing hard in loging to different account. With SDD all the loading takes just seconds. Most of the Leadership task take at least few hours (depending on rarity of your assets). Players dont have to use AH to transfer AD, they can just buy items they need and then send it to their main account.
Also dont ignore that botters and gold sellers will take the bigget hit, because this could potentially prevent the prices from rising.
not if it is char. bound...
also ..leadership is now hard to lv anyway..so the ones that dont have it on 25 will take massive amount of time to get it there anyway.
I am the perfect example of that :P lolz
What if Cryptic decided to just halve everyone's AD with one patch? How happy would that make people?
The solution is to increase the value of AD in the economy. Case in point. Look what happened to the AD exchange during double refinement, when people were buying lots of marks of whatever, mostly Greater Marks of Potency from the Wondrous Bazaar? The Exchange briefly dipped down into the 490s for the weekend, and we liquidated over 5 million Zen over the course of about 24 hours as AD became more valuable.
That's the solution.
It's why I wrote this: Why Refinement Points Should be Plentiful shortly after the weekend.
How about we nerf leadership AFTER I get some free money out of this game.. Ive sunk enough cash into it for a while.
Economy is already ruined. Besides rising the cap doesnt necessary means rising of the prices unless players themself decide that their $ are worth more. Supply and demand doesnt dictate the prices here but stupid caps and exploits.
This is one of the reasons why gold sellers can exist. Internet is the real reflection of supply and demand.
I realize that removing cap completely could cuase some problems that's why i suggested only increase of it as the time goes and player gather more and more AD.
If Cryptic attempts to nerf leadership or ban those with multiple accounts, there will be a serious uproar. I read the terms and conditions BEFORE I created multiple accounts and there was NO rule against this. There was not even any description about limiting the number of accounts. I know this because I read every word of the terms and conditions before creating additional accounts. It would be absurd to punish current players with multiple accounts because no rule were violated when the accounts were created.
Actually, I now wish I could combine my accounts into one - much easier to manage AD and gameplay in general. I would pay pretty good money to be able to combine into one account, but the programming behind that would probably be rough and create several unintended bugs.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
but frankly I cant even care.. Ive never even used it! never bought zen from it, never sold zen from it. I buy zen when I want something.
This is my solution.. REMOVE the exchange, make people pay for things, or you can buy things and post to AH. That is my solution.
WE NEED to REDUCE ad costs in game, not add more.. THERE is so much now in game, I WILL never make enough AD to cover 1 toon , let alone multiple ones.
THE VAST majority of players (90% probably) are AD poor.. not AD rich. This concept that every player has tons of AD is crazy.. I make a million every ten days now give or take.. I used to make a million every 7 days.. WITH THAT .. I cant even maintain one toon.
Another terrible idea. Then you destroy the "free to play" aspect of Neverwinter where you can EARN anything in the Zen shop via playing the game. That's a basic tenant of the game, and it's not going away.
And I have to ask...what do you consider "maintaining" a character? One million AD every 10 days, or about 50 million AD a year should be more than enough to get you BiS everything for a single toon. And you don't even need to come close to that complete all the content in this game.
That's absolutely crazy.
If they are looking for a point to start, it would be any AD that came from a bug/exploit, and they would have to put any future module for months on hold to dig through all that HAMSTER to even make some things right again.
If they ever raise the cap in one way or another, they will only lose even more players... check out the Steam charts, the numbers are on a slow but steady downwards spiral.
And yes, i know, not everyone logs into the game through Steam, but still, it shows a concerning trend... and the Devs should start taking this serious.
- start with a real chat filter, that every player can feed with keywords, and any message that has those keywords in it, will be redirected in another "spam channel".
- then go on to Blacklake District and start to clean out the bots running wild there
- move on to Neverdeath Graveyard, and do the same here against the bots
- last but not least Sharandar, again, remove the bots
In the end, a change like this will only hit the players, that are new or didn't use any exploit or bug they could find to get rich and richer... i hope the Devs ignore this thread, and focus and dealing with bugs, exploits and broken stuff.
BECAUSE I do not choose to play with one toon.. I play with at least 3-4 at a time.. Im never even close to what I need, I gave up on BiS loooongss time ago, I would just would like to get around the 80% mark.
In mod 1-3 I COULD pretty much get to that point on multiple toons, now I cant. What mmo locks out progression at this rate, most MMOS want you to gear up multiple toons, because they know you will spend more money in the end.
Sure you might not be able to get all of them BiS, but who cares, every mmo in the past ten years allowed me to get to that 80% mark give or take.
Go to the AH and just look at rank ten enchants.. its 1-2 million .. Im not even talking about rank 12s..or mythic levels or anything like that.
It would take me about 3 months to buy a set of r10s!
In addition, I like to buy cosmetic items and dyes.. Ive never seen a MMO lock out items (maybe some super rare ones) to the extent they do here.. even a cool looking dye.. sheesh!
How about 3-4 toons offhand and mainhand power changes.. DID you add those costs up.. thats a good 2-3 weeks ALONE , ALONE! of AD creation.
The amount of AD you can pour out for minimal return is crazy.. thats the crazy part.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!
You feel like shelling out an enormous amount of AD for a tiny gain in power is necessary, yet it's not. If you re-read what you just wrote, you'll understand that. What you're talking about is far beyond "maintaining" a single character. You're talking about having the very best of everything on every toon, which is a monumental goal for anyone playing an MMO.
The "80% mark" to use your definition is probably about 5-10 million AD in this game, depending on exactly what you chose to spend you AD one. And most of that cost comes from RP, which can now be pretty easily farmed at a rate of 50-60k/hr in IWD.
So I'm still not seeing how you can't "maintain" a toon with an income exceeding 100k AD/day.
EDIT: Just did some quick math on my OP I started in Module 6. 2800 iLevel, less than 4 million AD invested (if you're buying it all on the AH).
Worse? for who? those that are full F2p? maybe. If Cryptic would increase the cap and price would rise then gold sellers would have to do the same to stay in business. As long as there's no new AD exploits going and they manage to keep the same amount of customers, they would actually run out of AD twice as fast, which means more ZEN in the NW market thus chance for lower prices.
Any legit supporter would only befit from it, because they could get more AD for their $. The game is f2p and you dont have to spend $, Cryptic even gives players some free respec tokens once in a while. It would definitelly be worse for those who're trying to buy half of the ZEN store without contributing single cent.
Ironzerg is a smart guy. You should all listen to him.
The value of any item is based on supply and demand. Pure and simple. This law of economics also applies to currency. When you increase the amount of currency entering the game you by economic law decrease its value.
Since the quantity of items entering the market are not being changed with this suggestion their value does not change. So logically when the value of an item remains the same but the value of the currency drops the amount of currency needed to purchase the item increases. This is why 100 Dollars is the same as 88 Euros which is the same as 2,415 Czech Republic Crowns. The value is the same but the value of the currency is different.
By increasing the refinement cap you PUNISH those who do not consistently reach 50K or whatever cap is requested. In other words these requests come up because people want to be able to afford new shiny gear sooner but the result would be the opposite for the vast majority of the community.
So ultimately the solution is to increase the value of AD and not increase the cap.
This is done by increasing the amount of AD that leaves the system by adding additional sinks and modifying existing sinks to encourage people to use them more frequently.
EDIT - I like many others misinterpreted this thread to be discussing the refinement cap but the same concept applies because the problem is still the same. The value of AD is too low.
The Zen Exchange Cap exists to protect free to play players. The 500 AD:Zen more or less translates to "minimum wage." Raising the cap would not solve the problem which is that Zen is worth far more (infinitesimally more) than AD. The solution is to make AD worth more buy adding more AD sinks and generally adding more reasons players should want to buy AD.
Afterall the core principal behind the Zen Exchange is that players should want to buy AD. In order for players to want to buy AD they have have something to buy...
You're on the wrong thread, no one is talking about refining cap on this one.
They may not have limits on prices but they have to follow the economy to remain attractive. Im pretty sure that most of their AD come from old exploits or hacked accounts rather than farming, because doing dailies for AD require some actions and time. Even if they had like 100 accounts with 3 character on each to for leadership it wouldnt be enough.
Also im not talking about removing refining cap, this one is actually fine. Im talking about increasing cap for exchange AD <-> Zen.
Im not entirely sure I understand what sinks are here to remove ad from the game. There were lockbox keys (which were made bop) which were 1 of only about 3 consumable currencies this game really had. As soon as those keys were made bind on pickup the zax went nuts. Nobody could trade that consumable currency. Same thing happened to coal wards to a lesser extent (which was fair enough). Now we use greater marks of potency. As much as they make for a great consumable currency the demand for them was never as high as it was for those keys and coal wards. I would specifically spend money on zen to buy keys to trade. A lot of people would open lockboxes and that consumable was spent removing roughly 50 - 62k ad from the game at a time. That was a true ad sink. And because of the highly prized items found in the box contents it kept people coming back for more. And I know that greater marks are removing 100k at a time, but I can almost certainly predict its at about a tenth of the rate keys were doing it, and once people have best in slot gear they no longer require them.
I see this in a drastically different light, probably due to the fact the exchange has zero impact on me. I simply will not post a dime on it, ever at the return rate, some of you think there is a magic pill out there that makes AD more valuable then it is, I just dont see it happening, the very basis of it is thus.. my real world money will always be more valuable then the return of digital currency. The ONLY way that will change is if my 20 bucks of posted zen nets me something of more value, and right now.. its not happening and it hasnt happened since I started playing the game. I simply do not get why ANYONE posts zen on the market, I really dont. I see why people might move and sale zen, if they got that zen from a AD conversion basis. But where is the value of posting bought zen?
The trend I see is a tightening on AD creation, in fact you make about 1/4 of last mods daily rate.. thats A HUGE impact on me personally and on the economy.
The 3/4 drop rate of ad creation, hasnt really impacted AD value.. when will it? 99% reduction> 100%? sure AD will be worth more but your in the same boat, if you remove it, its not longer a f2p game.
IM 100% opposed to more AD sinks in game for regular players, if you want AD sinks they need to be special events and/or unique items that DO NOT impact game play for most of us.
THERE is already a huge daunting task ahead of a new player and some of you want to ADD more? adding more doesn't do ANYTHING for that new player.. nothing.. zip , zero.Its just another grind wall that is nearly impossible to achieve.
The same logic applies to raising the Zen-AD exchange cap as it does for increasing the daily AD refining cap. Supply and demand.
I know it can be hard to grasp the idea (took me some time to understand it many months ago), but raising the Zen-AD exchange cap will increase prices for everyone over time.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."