Anointed Holy Symbol (broken rank 4) - does not give ANY temp HP to allies when a divinity empowered encounter spell is cast
Hastening light (broken ranks 2-4) - does not give allies ANY AP or cooldown reduction when daily is cast
Cleanse works with every other class's temp HP, so instead of fixing the only broken class (OP), it was decided that just removing DC's heroic feat was reasonable and completely justified?
What difference does it make if Cleanse now sometimes removes (when not affected by an internal cooldown) a DoT effect when the DC heals somebody? Either the DoT is so powerful it will kill the person outright, making it near impossible to apply any Cleansing in time, or the cleric would outheal the DoT anyway with that healing spell they just cast. Not to mention most DoTs can be reapplied almost immediately.
Could we clerics please get all of our useless heroic feats looked at? Please? We have around 5 heroic feats worth getting and that is only by comparison. For example, what is the point of having a 5 second buff for 30% more armor penetration every five minutes (300 seconds)? Could this feat get removed altogether and replaced by something else if 30% more armor penetration affecting just the DC is way too much more often than just 1.7% of time? Thank you.
67% less damage? You guys don't go for small careful changes, do you? I wish there was at least a stun attached to it, or that it refills one bar of divine call. Anything...
67% less damage? You guys don't go for small careful changes, do you? I wish there was at least a stun attached to it, or that it refills one bar of divine call. Anything...
33% of 600k is still 200k, and now it's a proper AoE with target cap at 7. That's by far the highest hitting aAoE in the game. So what are you complaining about really?
600k damage? Is that in PvP with BiS gear and perfect enchants? Because for me its around 100k damage now on a single target when I solo. (I don't use it in group content) Cutting that by two thirds will make even smite deal more damage.
This has been brought up before. With our current tech, we could improve the matchmaking further at the cost of greatly increasing queue times especially during off peak hours. We do not currently feel this is a good solution.
What about a solo queue, that's exclusively leaderboard and tournament eligible?
600k damage? Is that in PvP with BiS gear and perfect enchants? Because for me its around 100k damage now on a single target when I solo. (I don't use it in group content) Cutting that by two thirds will make even smite deal more damage.[/QUOTE
So you'll only be doing 33k damage to 7 targets now? That's still the top dps in the game playing legit.
If there are 7 targets... Do we really need to split hairs here? Paladin, especially on the Devotion Oath is so very frustrating to solo because of the low damage. It takes ages to kill anything, even now with the high damage of that daily. It will be even more frustrating and boring if it deals 67% less damage. And in group content this daily is useless and will still be if it doesn't get some kind of secondary effect.
I really don't appreciate beind screwed over just because of some wacky PvP balance most people don't care about.
If there are 7 targets... Do we really need to split hairs here? Paladin, especially on the Devotion Oath is so very frustrating to solo because of the low damage. It takes ages to kill anything, even now with the high damage of that daily. It will be even more frustrating and boring if it deals 67% less damage. And in group content this daily is useless and will still be if it doesn't get some kind of secondary effect.
I really don't appreciate beind screwed over just because of some wacky PvP balance most people don't care about.
If you're using Divine Judgement in group content then you're doing it all wrong.
If you're using Divine Judgement in group content then you're doing it all wrong.
That's what I was saying... oO And that's why I wrote earlier something like a stun or divine call refill would be good to go with the damage reduction. Or a heal. Or a taunt. Or anything useful for group content.
This patch notes are really great I don't know if cleansy really should be nerfed or not, because we are healer classes and removes "all" debuffs is one part of us... Any paladin can do this, why not Devoted Cleric?
Btw I wish you would fix Hastening Light, it is not working since 2 weeks-- no AP gain with offhand effect and it doesn't reduce the cooldown of encaunter powers since first day of release.... This is worthless atm... btw it still gives to paladin unlimited ap with the offhand... He get every time +10% ap when he get hitted and we activated this offhand effect... But it isn't working on Dc...
Cleanse works with every other class's temp HP, so instead of fixing the only broken class (OP), it was decided that just removing DC's heroic feat was reasonable and completely justified?
Yup. Mind-boggling. This approach to "fixing" bugs is extremely aggravating.
Cleanse: This feat has been reworked to removed Damage over Time effects from allies, rather than all possible debuffs.
I think there will be no answer, but I will ask anyway.
What is the reasoning behind this change?
I suspect this: It was easier to remake it than to fix it? Now I have an even more useless heroic feat tree. Maybe we should just delete clerics and replace them with loladins?
I think there will be no answer, but I will ask anyway.
What is the reasoning behind this change?
I suspect this: It was easier to remake it than to fix it? Now I have an even more useless heroic feat tree. Maybe we should just delete clerics and replace them with loladins?
Sad panda here,
Have fun everyone,
Almondum.
Most accurate guess is, the conditional clause that validates if a player status is a debuff is on the same layer with the Pally's temp HP, removing that too. Sometimes, if it's too hard to exterminate bugs, you just have to burn the entire house to the ground. That's some real world programming wisdom fellas ;P
I think there will be no answer, but I will ask anyway.
What is the reasoning behind this change?
I suspect this: It was easier to remake it than to fix it? Now I have an even more useless heroic feat tree. Maybe we should just delete clerics and replace them with loladins?
Sad panda here,
Have fun everyone,
Almondum.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
I complitly agree with this fix .
Example :
The old Fabled Iliyanbruen set for any class had some ITC like this Fabled Iliyanbruen
4 of Set: Your attacks poison your foe, dealing 5,684 Poison damage over 15 seconds. You may only poison someone once every 30 seconds.
and cleanse just removed on each procc the 30 seconds itc.
The most broken thing was on SW+ DC and more dc used this more time coud procc SW set bonus...
It was to broken.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
Fair enough but could you please consider expanding the list of stuff that DCs can Cleanse to CCs, because that to me was the real utility of that feat, both when playing AS a cleric, or WITH one.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
Thank you for the info!
IMHO removing the ICD is a good enough ad-hoc compromise, though in the long run it might be better to give it an overhaul, IMHO, because the removal of e.g. slow effects etc. was one of the Cleanse core features to me. It is completely clear that this will take time, but just leaving is as it is now wouldn't be really desireable, even with the ICD removed. Then it would probably be better to replace the feat with something else.
can we except any balance changes for TR piercing dmg atm its ridiculous they re doing 10k shadow oppurtunity procs or 90k SEs i think tenacity was a way to fix that, you can also make ArP resistance also resist piercing dmg this would tonedown insane amounts of piercing dmg TR deals.
It is another thing that is going to be difficult to fix. SO does a meager 3% of a TR damage in PvE so any outright nerf to it would need to not affect PvE. I fear they have coded many things without thinking about leaving ways to be flexible for future changes.
I would have really thought when they made the stat changes for mod 6 that they would have done away with the tenacity model for PvP and normalized the two for the most part. Then they could have simply altered specific powers where needed to be different in PvP/PvE. Now we have some hodgepodge mix with compounding factors (Tenancity/DR/sedondary DR, etc) and everything as well as the intent is being obfuscated by the contrived mechanism to handle the variations -- and it is failing.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
Thank you for clearing that up. Not much you can do but disable it in that case.
Just be aware that even with ICD removed cleanse in it's new form would not be desirable to most players. Hopefully it can be considered written off for now and gotten back to the next time you are taking a look at DC feats.
On the matter of Astral Seal as you are introducing a cooldown is there any consideration for removing diminishing returns for successive heals? These seem like two means to achieve similar results and having both at once is the only thing keeping me from being optimistic about the numbers after the change. Losing the rapid proc mechanic it had for feats and boons is unfortunate, but once again likely central to why it was a problem in the first place.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
The issue is that the simpler fix has further hurt the Devoted Cleric in terms of class balancing. Cleanse was the only counter that Clerics have for control effects.
For cleanse to clear Damage Over Time specifically makes it a useless feat, as any DoT is addressed by Healing, which a DC does with or without cleanse. Much of the Cleric healing is done as Heal Over Time which already counters the DoT.
This feat is now pointless, as most of the other Cleric feats with 5 min internal cooldowns, or requiring 40,000 power for 5 feat points to generate a 1% critical chance increase.
At this point, I am wondering if there is any consideration or effort to bring this class' heroic feats in line with those of all the other classes, or is class-balancing just irrelevant or of minimal priority to the development team.
0
szamanos2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
There is now a minimum amount of time that must pass before a player may be vote kicked from a party. It should be enough time that it will be worth attempting any content before being able to kick the player.
*** PLEASE rethink a tweak to this you guys! What if that player keeps running in and getting the group killed? What if that player is just standing around and or afk'ing? What if that player is abusive towards the rest of the group? What if that player bugs the dungeon but you want to do the proper way? What if...... You don't read this What kinda time are we talking about here? *concerned*
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
Why don't you just make Cleanse work like Paladin's Cleansing Touch (remove any CC effect)?
can we except any balance changes for TR piercing dmg atm its ridiculous they re doing 10k shadow oppurtunity procs or 90k SEs i think tenacity was a way to fix that, you can also make ArP resistance also resist piercing dmg this would tonedown insane amounts of piercing dmg TR deals.
This. 100%.
Piercing damage NEEDS to = "These attacks attack with 100% armor penetration" - thus they DONT avoid tenacity but instead get a nice ARP boost.
Comments
On behalf:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?932111-Rank-4-powers
Anointed Holy Symbol (broken rank 4) - does not give ANY temp HP to allies when a divinity empowered encounter spell is cast
Hastening light (broken ranks 2-4) - does not give allies ANY AP or cooldown reduction when daily is cast
— (The unwritten rule)
What difference does it make if Cleanse now sometimes removes (when not affected by an internal cooldown) a DoT effect when the DC heals somebody? Either the DoT is so powerful it will kill the person outright, making it near impossible to apply any Cleansing in time, or the cleric would outheal the DoT anyway with that healing spell they just cast. Not to mention most DoTs can be reapplied almost immediately.
Could we clerics please get all of our useless heroic feats looked at? Please? We have around 5 heroic feats worth getting and that is only by comparison. For example, what is the point of having a 5 second buff for 30% more armor penetration every five minutes (300 seconds)? Could this feat get removed altogether and replaced by something else if 30% more armor penetration affecting just the DC is way too much more often than just 1.7% of time? Thank you.
33% of 600k is still 200k, and now it's a proper AoE with target cap at 7. That's by far the highest hitting aAoE in the game. So what are you complaining about really?
What about a solo queue, that's exclusively leaderboard and tournament eligible?
I really don't appreciate beind screwed over just because of some wacky PvP balance most people don't care about.
If you're using Divine Judgement in group content then you're doing it all wrong.
That's what I was saying... oO And that's why I wrote earlier something like a stun or divine call refill would be good to go with the damage reduction. Or a heal. Or a taunt. Or anything useful for group content.
Btw I wish you would fix Hastening Light, it is not working since 2 weeks-- no AP gain with offhand effect and it doesn't reduce the cooldown of encaunter powers since first day of release.... This is worthless atm... btw it still gives to paladin unlimited ap with the offhand... He get every time +10% ap when he get hitted and we activated this offhand effect... But it isn't working on Dc...
Mainchar: Mr. Shu
:cool:
I think there will be no answer, but I will ask anyway.
What is the reasoning behind this change?
I suspect this: It was easier to remake it than to fix it? Now I have an even more useless heroic feat tree. Maybe we should just delete clerics and replace them with loladins?
Sad panda here,
Have fun everyone,
Almondum.
Most accurate guess is, the conditional clause that validates if a player status is a debuff is on the same layer with the Pally's temp HP, removing that too. Sometimes, if it's too hard to exterminate bugs, you just have to burn the entire house to the ground. That's some real world programming wisdom fellas ;P
Its actually pretty simple. The Paladin Temp HP is a symptom of a much bigger issue. It was flagged to remove ANYTHING that could show up as a debuff on your character. Currently there is no way to exclude effects from that and it could break encounter mechanics that we wanted players to get an icon on their character for. This wasn't really acceptable and it just isn't feasible to rework every single debuff in the game to work right with cleanse (not to mention really confusing). Given that we have opted for the simpler fix that will streamline and make it target pretty specific things. I could see removing the ICD from it so that DCs can basically strip DoT effects off of players more consistently, but we definitely had to get the fix in to prevent it from breaking things further.
I complitly agree with this fix .
Example :
The old Fabled Iliyanbruen set for any class had some ITC like this Fabled Iliyanbruen
4 of Set: Your attacks poison your foe, dealing 5,684 Poison damage over 15 seconds. You may only poison someone once every 30 seconds.
and cleanse just removed on each procc the 30 seconds itc.
The most broken thing was on SW+ DC and more dc used this more time coud procc SW set bonus...
It was to broken.
Imagine it on tiamat HE.
Fair enough but could you please consider expanding the list of stuff that DCs can Cleanse to CCs, because that to me was the real utility of that feat, both when playing AS a cleric, or WITH one.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Thank you for the info!
IMHO removing the ICD is a good enough ad-hoc compromise, though in the long run it might be better to give it an overhaul, IMHO, because the removal of e.g. slow effects etc. was one of the Cleanse core features to me. It is completely clear that this will take time, but just leaving is as it is now wouldn't be really desireable, even with the ICD removed. Then it would probably be better to replace the feat with something else.
It is another thing that is going to be difficult to fix. SO does a meager 3% of a TR damage in PvE so any outright nerf to it would need to not affect PvE. I fear they have coded many things without thinking about leaving ways to be flexible for future changes.
I would have really thought when they made the stat changes for mod 6 that they would have done away with the tenacity model for PvP and normalized the two for the most part. Then they could have simply altered specific powers where needed to be different in PvP/PvE. Now we have some hodgepodge mix with compounding factors (Tenancity/DR/sedondary DR, etc) and everything as well as the intent is being obfuscated by the contrived mechanism to handle the variations -- and it is failing.
Thank you for clearing that up. Not much you can do but disable it in that case.
Just be aware that even with ICD removed cleanse in it's new form would not be desirable to most players. Hopefully it can be considered written off for now and gotten back to the next time you are taking a look at DC feats.
On the matter of Astral Seal as you are introducing a cooldown is there any consideration for removing diminishing returns for successive heals? These seem like two means to achieve similar results and having both at once is the only thing keeping me from being optimistic about the numbers after the change. Losing the rapid proc mechanic it had for feats and boons is unfortunate, but once again likely central to why it was a problem in the first place.
The issue is that the simpler fix has further hurt the Devoted Cleric in terms of class balancing. Cleanse was the only counter that Clerics have for control effects.
For cleanse to clear Damage Over Time specifically makes it a useless feat, as any DoT is addressed by Healing, which a DC does with or without cleanse. Much of the Cleric healing is done as Heal Over Time which already counters the DoT.
This feat is now pointless, as most of the other Cleric feats with 5 min internal cooldowns, or requiring 40,000 power for 5 feat points to generate a 1% critical chance increase.
At this point, I am wondering if there is any consideration or effort to bring this class' heroic feats in line with those of all the other classes, or is class-balancing just irrelevant or of minimal priority to the development team.
Yes . They should fix bugged Soul puppet and broken Fabled set on 60 lvl .
*** PLEASE rethink a tweak to this you guys! What if that player keeps running in and getting the group killed? What if that player is just standing around and or afk'ing? What if that player is abusive towards the rest of the group? What if that player bugs the dungeon but you want to do the proper way? What if...... You don't read this
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Why don't you just make Cleanse work like Paladin's Cleansing Touch (remove any CC effect)?
This. 100%.
Piercing damage NEEDS to = "These attacks attack with 100% armor penetration" - thus they DONT avoid tenacity but instead get a nice ARP boost.