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Updated Feedback on Epic Cragmire Crypt
abaddon523
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Since the patch on 3/27 some of the problems (documented here) have been fixed in this dungeon. Traven Blackdagger no longer does occasional hits of 4.7 million and in general the enemy damage has been taken down a notch.
However, this dungeon is still extremely difficult. Clearing the dungeon isn't too bad. Mobs can still slaughter you if you're not careful, but the group I was in died a fair amount less than last time. The competing adventuring party still hits really, really hard. Their mage, Samulkin Farcaster, has a Steal Time spell that hits for over 150k, and casts Oppressive Force which hits for over 200k. Frontline Surge from their GF, Cardiamus Hawklight, hits for over 250k and he has 3.4 million HP. So it's still a 1-shot fest that can get be pretty ugly. I think most casual groups will fail to get past them. Well geared groups will manage, though.
Last week Traven Blackdagger was pretty well impossible. With ranged adds hitting for over 150k and Travern himself topping 4 million when he hits it was just laughable to try and survive in there. Now it's better, but not by much. Travern's firebombs still hits for around 700k and his backstab tops 600k and his Slashing Frenzy still had hits of over 2 million. Instead of doing 700k per hit his drunken rage now does 90-160k damage. It's still the case that if you're not a tank and you get hit you're dead. But now at least there is some hope of strategizing around it. The adds are still preposterously overpowered. I have parses of Cutthroats hitting me for over 250k, but at least the Snipers only hit for 50-60k instead of 120k. Now you get 2-hit killed by them instead of 1-hit.
After many tries, some creative use of immobilize spells and some good tactics we were able to inflict ~30 million damage on Traven on our best attempt. This got him down to about 54% of his max HP. With enough tries we probably could have succeeded in beating him. So I think this fight has been toned down from "completely impossible" to "about 1% of all groups will succeed and only after about dozen tries at the boss." Make no mistake, we only made it that far because were burning through health stones and mass revive scrolls like they are given away for free. As a group we spent as much time on the floor as we did fighting. So the fight is still utterly ridiculous. Just slightly less ridiculous than it was last week.
Also, the first two bosses dropped nothing. Not even seals. So, a heck of a lot of work, tons of consumable things that you have to get from the zen store used up, and no reward whatsoever. Still need to find a better balance, Cryptic.
However, this dungeon is still extremely difficult. Clearing the dungeon isn't too bad. Mobs can still slaughter you if you're not careful, but the group I was in died a fair amount less than last time. The competing adventuring party still hits really, really hard. Their mage, Samulkin Farcaster, has a Steal Time spell that hits for over 150k, and casts Oppressive Force which hits for over 200k. Frontline Surge from their GF, Cardiamus Hawklight, hits for over 250k and he has 3.4 million HP. So it's still a 1-shot fest that can get be pretty ugly. I think most casual groups will fail to get past them. Well geared groups will manage, though.
Last week Traven Blackdagger was pretty well impossible. With ranged adds hitting for over 150k and Travern himself topping 4 million when he hits it was just laughable to try and survive in there. Now it's better, but not by much. Travern's firebombs still hits for around 700k and his backstab tops 600k and his Slashing Frenzy still had hits of over 2 million. Instead of doing 700k per hit his drunken rage now does 90-160k damage. It's still the case that if you're not a tank and you get hit you're dead. But now at least there is some hope of strategizing around it. The adds are still preposterously overpowered. I have parses of Cutthroats hitting me for over 250k, but at least the Snipers only hit for 50-60k instead of 120k. Now you get 2-hit killed by them instead of 1-hit.
After many tries, some creative use of immobilize spells and some good tactics we were able to inflict ~30 million damage on Traven on our best attempt. This got him down to about 54% of his max HP. With enough tries we probably could have succeeded in beating him. So I think this fight has been toned down from "completely impossible" to "about 1% of all groups will succeed and only after about dozen tries at the boss." Make no mistake, we only made it that far because were burning through health stones and mass revive scrolls like they are given away for free. As a group we spent as much time on the floor as we did fighting. So the fight is still utterly ridiculous. Just slightly less ridiculous than it was last week.
Also, the first two bosses dropped nothing. Not even seals. So, a heck of a lot of work, tons of consumable things that you have to get from the zen store used up, and no reward whatsoever. Still need to find a better balance, Cryptic.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by abaddon523 on
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And lose whole player base with it .....
Craigmire Crypt is now in the highest tier of dungeons, so it should not be able to be cleared by an average group in blues.
You should not come here until farming a complete Seal of the Elements set from MC/VT/LoL.
However, I agree that there should be seals dropped from the first two bosses, so you can grind enough to get a piece or two of the Protector's Seal gear.
99% sure that the "farm" module 6 will be making encounters in the new maps and getting new items.
In short ... Mod 6 if you want to earn ad will have to work with the RNG of encounters. because if not it .. highly recommend you go to the PvP mode of the game and wait for the good will of really a new content in the mod 7 mod 8 ....
We are a few days of mod releases 6 and what we see in the preview patch note is depressing. A patch note too small and 80% of the bugs that "say" have been concerted ... were not.
Well let's wait for the next post for clarification of what happened.
PS: I would not be at all surprised if this mod 6 is again postponed.
Good game
The entire party was using the burning pvp gear except for one person who was in 3/4 lv130 blues from the MC/VT/LOL dungeons. So we actually had better gear then what you are advocating a group should have and we still failed to get a reasonable attempt done on the boss without excessive use of resurrection scrolls and Stones of Health, zen items that should not be required to complete a dungeon.
Currently I think the Cragmire Crypts is mostly fine up to the last boss fight. the adds are manageable and the first boss is excellently balanced. the second boss fight can use some tuning to work on the massive hits that seem to be spammed by the adventuring party. the last boss is where it all falls apart though, the mechanics of the fight are excellent and i really enjoy how they are necessary to complete the fight, but the mechanics need to be balanced against the fact that the adds still hit too hard when in conjunction with the mechanics (a permanent red AoE area that can only be cleared by sending the boss into a party killing Drunken Rage)
Another thing to take note of for everyone who thinks the last boss should be very very hard, the devs stated explicitly on a live stream (i believe it was the livestream that had the devs showing off the paladin) that they wanted dungeons to be closer to a fun 30 minute thing you can do. My group tried for over 2 hours to beat the boss (took 37 minutes to reach the boss, this time will improve with practice) and we had excellent gear (well above the minimum requirements) and were all experienced players, nothing close to a casual group at all.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Nice read Scathias.
Look. A really challenging instance shouldn't be beaten on a test server. If there's a strategy it will be developped with time and practice. You didn't succeed? Good! Someone else will. In the meantime there will be many easy dungeons to play and there are many boss you can use to farm seals.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I'm sorry you think I'm part of a conspiracy to keep the game an easy faceroll. Honestly, we're just testing the content, with gear we are capable of attaining on live server. We're doing this with a rainbow comp so that we can see the effectiveness of each class instead of weighting the dungeon with CWs or TRs. I'm not advocating a nerf so it will be me blindly mashing my keyboard to victory, I'm intrigued by the idea of boss mechanics and teamwork.
I really wish there was a "instantly lvl 70" quest on preview, so more people could test, but the problem is that cryptic ruined so many people's lvl 70 characters by deleting equipped items, and not many are interested in spending time copying 150+ toons for tomes of exp or re-leveling to 70. Until then, we'll have to deal with the balanced bag of toons that has been testing so far; A GF/DC/GWF/CW that all know what they are doing and are experienced with more tactics than "add dps, murder until dead."
EDIT: by "gear we are capable of obtaining on live" I mean that I'm not rolling with imaginary r12s I won't have, or gear I can't earn reasonably. I had on full burning PVP set with weapon/armor enchants I have on live and am capable of bringing to r11/12
It's not because you suck, it's a new meta, new rotations, new spells, new mechanics. If it's the highest tier of dungeons you should definitely get wrecked for a week or two before you've practised enough to defeat the boss. That's how it works in most MMOs - except WOW and this one lately, since module 3. If you had pvp gear, you shouldn't expect anything but a gang **** by the final boss and its adds, the stats on the pvp gear really suck for both pvp and pve (that's the real, anti-pvp, conspiracy at work actually!). Once we get the equivalent of the T1 gear from VT or MC, it should be doable. Because on a normal MMO, if the players can win on the test server in a couple of days there's something wrong with the content. The test server is great to see if there are bugs and if the content can be played but not to kill the final boss of the final tier of content.
i know alot of us will be ok im a 20k cw i know i will survive but to all the low gs people out there they are the ones this is going to hurt the most
if this mod goes live like it is it is going to make it almost imposable for the small guys to get any where and increase the gs gap between the big guys and the new guys
That's why there are campaigns, solo instances, skirmishes, and the first tier of dungeons (MC, VT and something else). It's for the new players and people who don't want to bother learning to play the game. If your argument is that new players should be instantly able to kill the final boss of the highest tier of content right after reaching lvl 70 in questing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, then, it's wrong. That's not how it's supposed to work.
This makes more sense then what you said before. thank you for explaining what you said. I do think though that the the burning gear is comparable to the T1 purple gear (lv 132) due to the increased HP and only slightly lower stats (about 300 per item), the pvp gear stat allocation is poor but when bolstered by artifacts and boon choices you can get a balanced character out of it that is fit for pve content. it is not as efficient, but doable nonetheless.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
If the boss is what you said, and if it has an enrage timer by progressively covering the ground with red that doesn't disappear, then it's a dps race in an hostile environment, and I sincerely don't see how the pvp gear is supposed to be helpful in that situation. I've taken a look at the stats of the said pvp gear. They're not just "meh", they're horrible, especially for pve, for the classes I play. They either lack of power (especially for healing clerics, that's a joke), crit (almost no crit on CW gear, power is meh too), or arpen, which means that the dps race is going to take a hit. The black ice gear and the T1 one are much more balanced and have fine stats on the other hand. Yes artifacts and enchantments swapping definitely helps but considering that gear is at least half of your stats, you can't say it doesn't matter.
I have not taken a look at the stats of the pvp gear for classes other then GWF (i have no extensive experience playing them in endgame like i do with GWF), but a GWF can manage and adapt to what the gear has in the same way pvpers adapted to the black ice gear back in mod 3. Granted, most pvpers are going to take the pvp chest piece for tenacity and then the other pieces will be made up of pve gear due to horrible tenacity stat curve.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
The boss mechanic works thusly: As the ground becomes progressively untouchable, you break the cask in the far back of the room, flooding it, and extinguishing the fire. After you flood the room, Traven becomes enraged and ports about, unleashing his rage upon the party. We negated this by casting a geas on the boss right before the cask was broken. This being said, its really not a dps race, you're not racing against a timer, you're depending on group coordination to survive. I was also using lathander set to help if I procced SF to heal the team.
As a DC, I'm not thrilled about the stat allocation on the PVP gear, but I've arranged my stats around it:
15.2k power (buffed with constant BoB)
3.4k crit (26..6% crit chance)
4k recovery
6k defense (46 AC for combined DR of 33% with exaltation; 59%)
1k deflect (granted this isn't as important for pve, but it is what it is)
Tactics: Keep GF buffed with divine exaltation and BoB to ensure survival of the tank, and heal damage taken. Cast exaltation to buff dps of highest single target member. Cast empowered AS around delicate casters as adds spawn. Geas snipers that are not currently targeted for death, and the boss when the whole floor is lava. Divine Geas to root cutthroats. Not entirely sure what else I could be doing, the targeting for all this is a nightmare; but using bastion of health doesn't add needed DR to the party, and its nigh impossible to expect people to never leave AS with the dodging the still have to do to survive.
I'd be willing to take suggestions.
It's always the same old story. A handful of elitists with great machines and top ISP lines comes along and cries for "moar challenge"...
Interestingly, it's really the selfsame eight or ten people doing this over and over in every thread. Sometimes I wonder if they are paid by the competition to get the game from interesting for most to another grind-o-rama for 1337 pwnrz, so the broader p(l)ayerbase quits???
Why don't you lobby for a third difficulty degree - let's just call it "legendary dungeons", where you'd get the same stuff, just twice the number of drop chances? That would be minimum fuzz for Cryptic - just put the level slider up one or two notches...
Short story: You want challenge? No problem. Stash away all your dealry (full-auto-?)ground oranges, or five of the seven, and replace them with purples. Presto!, game's a lot more challenging at once...
It was fun for the first 30 minutes, then after that becomes a question of how many health stones and scroll of life you want to blow. Not something I'm used to, especially when I can solo CN pretty easily on live right now, without needing to eat a pot.
My HR is pretty much BiS on preview, except a few enchants are still rank 11s, with about 100k HP, some legendary companions, tried a legendary defender companion (yeti), then chicken, then lillend. My dps isn't lacking, but nothing helps to stop me from getting 1 shotted and dying over 100 times in this dungeon run. I've used up about 80 scroll of mass life. I got more outgoing healing from these scrolls than my lifesteal by far.
I'm also a trapper, so I'm constantly using fox cunning to save my party from those big hits. But for the boss fight, you really have to be prepared to wipe and keep trying for over an hour, and we were only making progress because we all were spamming scroll of mass life to get back up.
I haven't tried other dungeons yet, but if this is meant to be the hardest dungeon in mod 6, I'm fine with it, but not something I'm going to be looking forward to do on live. I just don't want to spend so much on health stones, and scrolls.
For those that are looking for a challenge, this will be a really good time to jump on preview and level up to 70 (takes 2-3 days if you're doing it normally), and try this dungeon out, as I don't see it staying at this difficulty for very long. For the more casual player with less than rank 10s and no legendary artifacts etc, I'd just suggest them to stay away.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)