doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited April 2015
To everyone that says these dungeons should be near impossible i'll point you to this staple and logic in any RPG/MMO ... we have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear leveling, generally there is NO other way to get gear/seals in order to improve without running dungeons ergo in order to GET gear we HAVE to be able to complete a dungeon. CC is NOT supposed to be the harded dungeon in the game, it is the dungeon you do while leveling and still pretty much the first dungeon to be done once you are 70 and ready for epics. VT, MC and Tiamat are our last dungeons with the "endgame" gear/seals so therefore we should NOT be skipping CC or any other former T1 dungeon just to run VT or MC to get BETTER seals that buy superior gear than the earlier dungeons.
To say you have to be BiS to run these dungeons means you are just as much as part of the problem as the Devs that are having difficulty creating balance.
Causal gamers probably should fail they have some of the worst coordination I have ever seen, however you don't want them to fail at the FIRST mob cluster because they won't ever bother to try harder at that rate they will quit and then all you will have are all these people that whine about how they spent thousands of dollars on their toon to be BiS and thus will have pretty much no one to play with/roll stomp. MMO's need population, good or bad players are required to fuel the game.
To all of you BiS slot people (wallet warriors and grinders alike) I don't hate or intend to single you out as being the problem, in reality the problem is the game ... the Devs may have heard the crying and whining of folks about content but have opted to screw over the rest of the gaming population instead of making separate content exclusively for the overgeared. Instead of making CC MC VT etc ridiculously hard they should have made (and probably planned for more) new dungoens or zones that catered to this seriously OP population, perhaps something like the crazy level up features of Borderlands 2 digistruct peak. Make an area that punishes and challenges the OP player, make it so that the minimum requirement is a toon that is decked out in all R9 enchants and BiS gear for this mod. Oh yeah and make it so THEY CAN'T glitch it to win or speed through it. But DO NOT punish the regular population of those who are not in that category. The rest of us should be challenged but not defeated at every mob group or using 1 shot mechanics and calling that challenge, 1 shot mechanics is lazy programming at best or lack of creative thinking.
We need more team work orientated content ... something that requires people to actually work together ... for instance a dungeon in which one of the bosses needs to be fought with say a tank holding it in place while two other party members have to stand near activation points to put a debuff on the boss so that everyone can deal better damage to it. It will be the job of the DC to protect the tank and keep him up while the other two classes focus on keeping the activation switch users alive when adds spawn type of thing. See that will REQUIRE people to work together ... this game is TERRIBLY lacking in coordination and actual "team work" its all about the single user in this game ... and that mentality is the problem as a whole ... and frankly that needs to change ... MMO's are about working with other players NOT who can spend the most money to ensure they can solo content.
So here is my suggestion, put a team of some creative thinkers to work on some ideas that would require team work ... dungeon failure because people fail to work together is acceptable and necessary to teach people to work together, if people don't want to work together go by a single player game.
Currently all we have is a DPS race that now has a need to have a DC to ensure the DERPERS can now stay alive while they recklessly agro mobs to top pain giver charts.
So please look into creative fights with mechanics and team orientated fights and move past these one shot mechanics and never ending spawning add fests you have relied on for far tooo long.
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darkstarcrashMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,382Arc User
To everyone that says these dungeons should be near impossible i'll point you to this staple and logic in any RPG/MMO ... we have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear leveling, generally there is NO other way to get gear/seals in order to improve without running dungeons ergo in order to GET gear we HAVE to be able to complete a dungeon. CC is NOT supposed to be the harded dungeon in the game, it is the dungeon you do while leveling and still pretty much the first dungeon to be done once you are 70 and ready for epics. VT, MC and Tiamat are our last dungeons with the "endgame" gear/seals so therefore we should NOT be skipping CC or any other former T1 dungeon just to run VT or MC to get BETTER seals that buy superior gear than the earlier dungeons.
To say you have to be BiS to run these dungeons means you are just as much as part of the problem as the Devs that are having difficulty creating balance.
Just pulling out this part of your post to note that you are wrong: CC is an end-game dungeon in this rework. MC/VT/LoL are lower tier.
Just pulling out this part of your post to note that you are wrong: CC is an end-game dungeon in this rework. MC/VT/LoL are lower tier.
I was confused by this at first, too.
Agree!
Actually until a certain game totally dumbed down MMOs, they had challenges and REQUIRED you to work together some of those challenges back then took 100 people and I AM NOT KIDDING.
0
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
We need more team work orientated content ... something that requires people to actually work together ...
Apart from the T1/T2 mistake u done, you are contradicting yourself here. The point with the new dungeons is that THEY REQUIRE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER..that is the point, what do you think it takes to progress in the dungeon? Equipment? All you people who think that 2000 more power and critical will make the difference are so badly informed. A full rank 12 player will have a couple thousand more stats than a current with R7-R8-R9, you think these couple of thousand points in stats would make a difference? Are we playing the same game here? Are you aware of what is needed to beat this difficult new groups of adds in dungeons? COORDINATION, CONTROL, DEBUFFING. DPS is the last you need here, you will not be able to hit if you are dead or running away/shifting. So before you express your opinions just dip your brain into a little more knowledge about the game please.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
Just pulling out this part of your post to note that you are wrong: CC is an end-game dungeon in this rework. MC/VT/LoL are lower tier.
I was confused by this at first, too.
I can always concede when I'm wrong, but if memory servers CC GWD and TOS are dropping seals of the elements which is the lower tier gear currency, VT and MC drop seals of the protector which is the higher tier?
I'll have to log back into to preview but that's what I remember, is that now incorrect?
At the begining of the game trash mobs were diffcult but not outrageous even with little rank 5-6, none armor enchants or just lesser, the main issue was the boss.
Even for CN.
0
doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
Apart from the T1/T2 mistake u done, you are contradicting yourself here. The point with the new dungeons is that THEY REQUIRE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER..that is the point, what do you think it takes to progress in the dungeon? Equipment? All you people who think that 2000 more power and critical will make the difference are so badly informed. A full rank 12 player will have a couple thousand more stats than a current with R7-R8-R9, you think these couple of thousand points in stats would make a difference? Are we playing the same game here? Are you aware of what is needed to beat this difficult new groups of adds in dungeons? COORDINATION, CONTROL, DEBUFFING. DPS is the last you need here, you will not be able to hit if you are dead or running away/shifting. So before you express your opinions just dip your brain into a little more knowledge about the game please.
They broke my level 70 so I pretty much don't do anything on preview other than check my powers to see if the R4 power points are working which they are not, well on some anyway.
Now you quoted me saying that we need more team work orientated dungeons ... how is my comment different than your tirade? I don't think at any time did I condone nor suggest that higher enchants equals better or win ... my point was clearly that most people CURRENTLY in live server play for themselves with high end gear to pretty much solo epic dungeons. Zero coordination is currently needed.
Now in MOD6 it seems there will be more use of clerics and tank classes but I'm pretty certain people are going to still try to brute force things until it either is shown that it won't work or until it does work, because it will be "faster".
My issue is the newer dungeons need to not rely on one shot mechanics but real team work mechanics ... where say a group of 5 people need to do be doing things to proceed not just everyone dpsing the boss. I gave I think an excellent example of what I think team based dungeons should be. If you care to critique that suggestion then by all means but to say I'm voicing opinions in ignorance isn't really helpful from you and frankly you don't seem to make any cohesive point either.
Debuffing and control by itself isn't really all that difficult but if you have a mechanic where the boss needs to stand in one spot while other party members have to be doing something else for a short time then you have a challenge because you need to do something other than stand there activation powers to debuff and dps.
I might be wrong about the T1 T2 dungeons but they broke my level 70 toon and havn't really been playing anything since just looking to see what changes made and the like. My memory was CC GWD and TOS were all dropping seals of elements and VT MC were dropping seals of protector and protector seals are used for higher tier gear at least they were the last time I remember looking at them.
So instead of insulting people why don't you try to make a more coherent argument or make a more constructive criticism since your original response isn't helpful or meaningful and little more than an attempt to be insulting without being blatant about it.
Here is another example ... say a tank needs to keep agro on the boss that it can be positioned say under a falling stalagtite in order to inflict damage or cause the boss to drop his guard so dps can deal damage for a short time, then the boss is back up taking little or even no damage until the next stalagtite is dropped on him, he has to be led to the areas where this happens and if dps tears agro away then the stalagtite will miss could result in some power attack that heavily damages the party.
A good MMO boss has the following elements: environmental hazard to make everyone not stand like a turret (like lava on the ground or parts of the ground disappearing), some control spells (blind, root, whatever) which don't stop the boss' spells rotations, special mechanics (this may vary a lot, going into a room, collecting items, jumping to a special place, something to click on while the rest is going on, some smaller stuff to kill before the boss wipes the room, a special place to go when you have a debuff/dot, and so on) AND an enrage timer, which means a dps check. So that we, players, don't bring 2 healers to ease the fight. The enrage mechanic is quite important here, it's supposed to be a built-in mechanic to force balanced parties with usually a ratio of 20/25% healers in MMOs.
Boss mechanics aren't here only to enforce teamwork, they're supposed to enforce a specific kind of party, typically 1 healer 1 tank + 1 controller 2 dps or 3 dps for 5 players content.
Hopefully, with time we'll get more of the traditional mmo mechanics in neverwinter, like a (real) council boss fight with (real) mechanics and other cool stuff like that.
in t1 70k hp should be min to can do them but problem is how will ppl be able to get to 70k if they dont have prefarmed burning pvp gear or blue rank 110 from npc in well of the dragon zone or tons of bi to buy new bi sets
in t1 70k hp should be min to can do them but problem is how will ppl be able to get to 70k if they dont have prefarmed burning pvp gear or blue rank 110 from npc in well of the dragon zone or tons of bi to buy new bi sets
the item lv 1600 dungeons are easy enough to do and give you item lv 130 gear which give more HP then the Black ice sets. bottom line is that no one is going to be trying to do the item lv 2000 dungeons without first completing enough lv 1600 dungeons or having the pvp gear
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
the item lv 1600 dungeons are easy enough to do and give you item lv 130 gear which give more HP then the Black ice sets. bottom line is that no one is going to be trying to do the item lv 2000 dungeons without first completing enough lv 1600 dungeons or having the pvp gear
but u do need 70k to can do them and this willl be a problem
Apart from the T1/T2 mistake u done, you are contradicting yourself here. The point with the new dungeons is that THEY REQUIRE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER..that is the point, what do you think it takes to progress in the dungeon? Equipment? All you people who think that 2000 more power and critical will make the difference are so badly informed. A full rank 12 player will have a couple thousand more stats than a current with R7-R8-R9, you think these couple of thousand points in stats would make a difference? Are we playing the same game here? Are you aware of what is needed to beat this difficult new groups of adds in dungeons? COORDINATION, CONTROL, DEBUFFING. DPS is the last you need here, you will not be able to hit if you are dead or running away/shifting. So before you express your opinions just dip your brain into a little more knowledge about the game please.
This is where I think enchants are MUCH less important than lvl 60 PVE however the GEAR is FAR more important than at 60.
If you have random blue pieces from leveling youll have a fraction of the HP with good PVE gear, wont matter if you have full rank 12s and all legendary artifact equipment AND mythic artifacts.
If you dont have the GEAR pieces, you will suffer due to lack of HP.
Ontop of this though I think itll be GREAT seeing parties require groups. All I hope is the "T1" dungeons at lvl 70 are easy enough for PUG groups to get through with moderate struggle and moderate gear. a well geared team and high skill group shouldnt have a problem.
The "T2" dungeons SHOULD require basically "BIS" gear (mayne not full BIS but like full t1 4/4 pieces with atleast rank 10s and GOOD gear) AS WELL AS being coordinated to run the group.
Stand outside AS or have a GF/Pally not "tanking/protection" - Wipe.
Have a CW not controlling mobs to try and deal more damage - wipe.
I dont think it should be SO hard its unbeatable. I do remember when CN came out, groups would do only the first 2 bosses in runs to get the ancient rings/belts/neck (forget which specifically) and that was only like +4-+15ish more stat points on each stat.
It took TIME not JUST gearing up but learning the fights and learning the dungeon. I hope this is the case for mod 6.
This is where I think enchants are MUCH less important than lvl 60 PVE however the GEAR is FAR more important than at 60.
If you have random blue pieces from leveling youll have a fraction of the HP with good PVE gear, wont matter if you have full rank 12s and all legendary artifact equipment AND mythic artifacts.
If you dont have the GEAR pieces, you will suffer due to lack of HP.
Ontop of this though I think itll be GREAT seeing parties require groups. All I hope is the "T1" dungeons at lvl 70 are easy enough for PUG groups to get through with moderate struggle and moderate gear. a well geared team and high skill group shouldnt have a problem.
The "T2" dungeons SHOULD require basically "BIS" gear (mayne not full BIS but like full t1 4/4 pieces with atleast rank 10s and GOOD gear) AS WELL AS being coordinated to run the group.
Stand outside AS or have a GF/Pally not "tanking/protection" - Wipe.
Have a CW not controlling mobs to try and deal more damage - wipe.
I dont think it should be SO hard its unbeatable. I do remember when CN came out, groups would do only the first 2 bosses in runs to get the ancient rings/belts/neck (forget which specifically) and that was only like +4-+15ish more stat points on each stat.
It took TIME not JUST gearing up but learning the fights and learning the dungeon. I hope this is the case for mod 6.
I remember as well ppl stacking 4xcw to do cn and we might have something like this now as well since cws still do2x times better dps then next party member but in the same time it controls and there is one big problem as well ranged classes now have big advantage since they don't get 1shoted from boss or mobs skills since they are not close enough while gwf,hr gf tr are
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited April 2015
You're saying a CW can do his job safely at range, but a HR can't?
The only 4 CW groups I've seen in CN were 4 overgeared CWs. In a mod or 2, there will be all kinds of crazy overgeared groups doing this content too.
If these new dungeons have as many adds the old ones, you're probably going to need multiple CWs to control them, because of target caps, especially in non-uber groups.
You're saying a CW can do his job safely at range, but a HR can't?
The only 4 CW groups I've seen in CN were 4 overgeared CWs. In a mod or 2, there will be all kinds of crazy overgeared groups doing this content too.
If these new dungeons have as many adds the old ones, you're probably going to need multiple CWs to control them, because of target caps, especially in non-uber groups.
U do know archer hr won't be to good for new dungeons or solo content?
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
I remember as well ppl stacking 4xcw to do cn and we might have something like this now as well since cws still do2x times better dps then next party member but in the same time it controls and there is one big problem as well ranged classes now have big advantage since they don't get 1shoted from boss or mobs skills since they are not close enough while gwf,hr gf tr are
Yes, this is what saddens me to my core.
CW is still the UBER king of PVE. I get it, massive AoE massive control. I just wish they would honestly lower CW damage down to BELOW that of GWF/HR/SW/TR even and make them a pure controller. Then it would make no sense to stack CWs since you would do very little damage.
An optimal group should have
1 Healer
1 Tank
2 DPS
1 Control class
Now some will say "you dont know DND, it doesnt have trinity, it doenst have rolls, blah blah." I DO know this is an MMO and I DO know specifically out of DEVs mouths they do "not balance on 1v1s" so what does that tell you? Its a "team" oriented game with "team" roles each has to play.
Now I dont want to see CWs just massively changed THAT badly where they are not fun, but I think the CW should have to choose between DPS or Control.
So it MAY make sense to still have 3 CWs even but maybe only 1 is control while the other 1-2 are DPS spec.
I am worry about the op, if the team has 1 gf n 1 dc, what need op for? Or may be a team pattern like 1 gf, 1cw, 1 op, 1sw, 1dc
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tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
edited April 2015
Ayroux, you are touching the hearth of the problem : the lack of a real class specialization.
Class should be able to specialize. For now, the beast classes are often the one with lesser specializations abilities.
I hope they tone down dungeons again to be doable by players with the required item level. Everything else would be weird. Also just increasing enemy health and damage is a cheap way of increasing difficulty. I wish they would instead work on the AI, or give enemies dodges.
I remember as well ppl stacking 4xcw to do cn and we might have something like this now as well since cws still do2x times better dps then next party member but in the same time it controls and there is one big problem as well ranged classes now have big advantage since they don't get 1shoted from boss or mobs skills since they are not close enough while gwf,hr gf tr are
Dude u already crying to nerfs for cw's in 3 other threads, could u please not do it in this thread?? Besides all of the cw's skills who is any good requires us to be in close to the mobs...
Comments
To say you have to be BiS to run these dungeons means you are just as much as part of the problem as the Devs that are having difficulty creating balance.
Causal gamers probably should fail they have some of the worst coordination I have ever seen, however you don't want them to fail at the FIRST mob cluster because they won't ever bother to try harder at that rate they will quit and then all you will have are all these people that whine about how they spent thousands of dollars on their toon to be BiS and thus will have pretty much no one to play with/roll stomp. MMO's need population, good or bad players are required to fuel the game.
To all of you BiS slot people (wallet warriors and grinders alike) I don't hate or intend to single you out as being the problem, in reality the problem is the game ... the Devs may have heard the crying and whining of folks about content but have opted to screw over the rest of the gaming population instead of making separate content exclusively for the overgeared. Instead of making CC MC VT etc ridiculously hard they should have made (and probably planned for more) new dungoens or zones that catered to this seriously OP population, perhaps something like the crazy level up features of Borderlands 2 digistruct peak. Make an area that punishes and challenges the OP player, make it so that the minimum requirement is a toon that is decked out in all R9 enchants and BiS gear for this mod. Oh yeah and make it so THEY CAN'T glitch it to win or speed through it. But DO NOT punish the regular population of those who are not in that category. The rest of us should be challenged but not defeated at every mob group or using 1 shot mechanics and calling that challenge, 1 shot mechanics is lazy programming at best or lack of creative thinking.
We need more team work orientated content ... something that requires people to actually work together ... for instance a dungeon in which one of the bosses needs to be fought with say a tank holding it in place while two other party members have to stand near activation points to put a debuff on the boss so that everyone can deal better damage to it. It will be the job of the DC to protect the tank and keep him up while the other two classes focus on keeping the activation switch users alive when adds spawn type of thing. See that will REQUIRE people to work together ... this game is TERRIBLY lacking in coordination and actual "team work" its all about the single user in this game ... and that mentality is the problem as a whole ... and frankly that needs to change ... MMO's are about working with other players NOT who can spend the most money to ensure they can solo content.
So here is my suggestion, put a team of some creative thinkers to work on some ideas that would require team work ... dungeon failure because people fail to work together is acceptable and necessary to teach people to work together, if people don't want to work together go by a single player game.
Currently all we have is a DPS race that now has a need to have a DC to ensure the DERPERS can now stay alive while they recklessly agro mobs to top pain giver charts.
So please look into creative fights with mechanics and team orientated fights and move past these one shot mechanics and never ending spawning add fests you have relied on for far tooo long.
Just pulling out this part of your post to note that you are wrong: CC is an end-game dungeon in this rework. MC/VT/LoL are lower tier.
I was confused by this at first, too.
Agree!
Actually until a certain game totally dumbed down MMOs, they had challenges and REQUIRED you to work together some of those challenges back then took 100 people and I AM NOT KIDDING.
Apart from the T1/T2 mistake u done, you are contradicting yourself here. The point with the new dungeons is that THEY REQUIRE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER..that is the point, what do you think it takes to progress in the dungeon? Equipment? All you people who think that 2000 more power and critical will make the difference are so badly informed. A full rank 12 player will have a couple thousand more stats than a current with R7-R8-R9, you think these couple of thousand points in stats would make a difference? Are we playing the same game here? Are you aware of what is needed to beat this difficult new groups of adds in dungeons? COORDINATION, CONTROL, DEBUFFING. DPS is the last you need here, you will not be able to hit if you are dead or running away/shifting. So before you express your opinions just dip your brain into a little more knowledge about the game please.
I can always concede when I'm wrong, but if memory servers CC GWD and TOS are dropping seals of the elements which is the lower tier gear currency, VT and MC drop seals of the protector which is the higher tier?
I'll have to log back into to preview but that's what I remember, is that now incorrect?
Even for CN.
They broke my level 70 so I pretty much don't do anything on preview other than check my powers to see if the R4 power points are working which they are not, well on some anyway.
Now you quoted me saying that we need more team work orientated dungeons ... how is my comment different than your tirade? I don't think at any time did I condone nor suggest that higher enchants equals better or win ... my point was clearly that most people CURRENTLY in live server play for themselves with high end gear to pretty much solo epic dungeons. Zero coordination is currently needed.
Now in MOD6 it seems there will be more use of clerics and tank classes but I'm pretty certain people are going to still try to brute force things until it either is shown that it won't work or until it does work, because it will be "faster".
My issue is the newer dungeons need to not rely on one shot mechanics but real team work mechanics ... where say a group of 5 people need to do be doing things to proceed not just everyone dpsing the boss. I gave I think an excellent example of what I think team based dungeons should be. If you care to critique that suggestion then by all means but to say I'm voicing opinions in ignorance isn't really helpful from you and frankly you don't seem to make any cohesive point either.
Debuffing and control by itself isn't really all that difficult but if you have a mechanic where the boss needs to stand in one spot while other party members have to be doing something else for a short time then you have a challenge because you need to do something other than stand there activation powers to debuff and dps.
I might be wrong about the T1 T2 dungeons but they broke my level 70 toon and havn't really been playing anything since just looking to see what changes made and the like. My memory was CC GWD and TOS were all dropping seals of elements and VT MC were dropping seals of protector and protector seals are used for higher tier gear at least they were the last time I remember looking at them.
So instead of insulting people why don't you try to make a more coherent argument or make a more constructive criticism since your original response isn't helpful or meaningful and little more than an attempt to be insulting without being blatant about it.
Here is another example ... say a tank needs to keep agro on the boss that it can be positioned say under a falling stalagtite in order to inflict damage or cause the boss to drop his guard so dps can deal damage for a short time, then the boss is back up taking little or even no damage until the next stalagtite is dropped on him, he has to be led to the areas where this happens and if dps tears agro away then the stalagtite will miss could result in some power attack that heavily damages the party.
A good MMO boss has the following elements: environmental hazard to make everyone not stand like a turret (like lava on the ground or parts of the ground disappearing), some control spells (blind, root, whatever) which don't stop the boss' spells rotations, special mechanics (this may vary a lot, going into a room, collecting items, jumping to a special place, something to click on while the rest is going on, some smaller stuff to kill before the boss wipes the room, a special place to go when you have a debuff/dot, and so on) AND an enrage timer, which means a dps check. So that we, players, don't bring 2 healers to ease the fight. The enrage mechanic is quite important here, it's supposed to be a built-in mechanic to force balanced parties with usually a ratio of 20/25% healers in MMOs.
Boss mechanics aren't here only to enforce teamwork, they're supposed to enforce a specific kind of party, typically 1 healer 1 tank + 1 controller 2 dps or 3 dps for 5 players content.
Hopefully, with time we'll get more of the traditional mmo mechanics in neverwinter, like a (real) council boss fight with (real) mechanics and other cool stuff like that.
the item lv 1600 dungeons are easy enough to do and give you item lv 130 gear which give more HP then the Black ice sets. bottom line is that no one is going to be trying to do the item lv 2000 dungeons without first completing enough lv 1600 dungeons or having the pvp gear
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
but u do need 70k to can do them and this willl be a problem
This is where I think enchants are MUCH less important than lvl 60 PVE however the GEAR is FAR more important than at 60.
If you have random blue pieces from leveling youll have a fraction of the HP with good PVE gear, wont matter if you have full rank 12s and all legendary artifact equipment AND mythic artifacts.
If you dont have the GEAR pieces, you will suffer due to lack of HP.
Ontop of this though I think itll be GREAT seeing parties require groups. All I hope is the "T1" dungeons at lvl 70 are easy enough for PUG groups to get through with moderate struggle and moderate gear. a well geared team and high skill group shouldnt have a problem.
The "T2" dungeons SHOULD require basically "BIS" gear (mayne not full BIS but like full t1 4/4 pieces with atleast rank 10s and GOOD gear) AS WELL AS being coordinated to run the group.
Stand outside AS or have a GF/Pally not "tanking/protection" - Wipe.
Have a CW not controlling mobs to try and deal more damage - wipe.
I dont think it should be SO hard its unbeatable. I do remember when CN came out, groups would do only the first 2 bosses in runs to get the ancient rings/belts/neck (forget which specifically) and that was only like +4-+15ish more stat points on each stat.
It took TIME not JUST gearing up but learning the fights and learning the dungeon. I hope this is the case for mod 6.
I remember as well ppl stacking 4xcw to do cn and we might have something like this now as well since cws still do2x times better dps then next party member but in the same time it controls and there is one big problem as well ranged classes now have big advantage since they don't get 1shoted from boss or mobs skills since they are not close enough while gwf,hr gf tr are
The only 4 CW groups I've seen in CN were 4 overgeared CWs. In a mod or 2, there will be all kinds of crazy overgeared groups doing this content too.
If these new dungeons have as many adds the old ones, you're probably going to need multiple CWs to control them, because of target caps, especially in non-uber groups.
U do know archer hr won't be to good for new dungeons or solo content?
Yes, this is what saddens me to my core.
CW is still the UBER king of PVE. I get it, massive AoE massive control. I just wish they would honestly lower CW damage down to BELOW that of GWF/HR/SW/TR even and make them a pure controller. Then it would make no sense to stack CWs since you would do very little damage.
An optimal group should have
1 Healer
1 Tank
2 DPS
1 Control class
Now some will say "you dont know DND, it doesnt have trinity, it doenst have rolls, blah blah." I DO know this is an MMO and I DO know specifically out of DEVs mouths they do "not balance on 1v1s" so what does that tell you? Its a "team" oriented game with "team" roles each has to play.
Now I dont want to see CWs just massively changed THAT badly where they are not fun, but I think the CW should have to choose between DPS or Control.
So it MAY make sense to still have 3 CWs even but maybe only 1 is control while the other 1-2 are DPS spec.
Class should be able to specialize. For now, the beast classes are often the one with lesser specializations abilities.
Dude u already crying to nerfs for cw's in 3 other threads, could u please not do it in this thread?? Besides all of the cw's skills who is any good requires us to be in close to the mobs...
All those sleepless nights studying spellbooks with a candle
Lol well played:)