Destroyer and Weapon Master last 5 seconds (up from 3 s).
TAKEDOWN - now prone players when used in unstoppable ,but costs 10% of determination.
STEEL BLITZ (rework) - every time you critically hit a foe you reduce the cooldown of your last encounter used by 1%. (+0.5% per rank).
BATTLE FURY (rework) - Increase your atwill and encounter damage , grants you combat advantage and 3% more critical chance. In addition , when first activated your stamina is refilled. This buffs is only for you (damage buff : +5% , critical strike : +1% , buffs : +1 s per rank).
INSTIGATOR / CRIPPLING STRIKE (rework) : your teammates are buffed for the effect of Battle Fury and gain 10/20/30/40/50% of the benefits. The buffs last 3 more seconds.
PUNISHING CHARGE : now stuns players when used in unstoppable.
DESTROYER / UNFETTERED STRIKES (rework) : Successful melee attacks increase your life steal chance by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1% for 4 seconds. This effect stacks 5 times.
My 4.8k power protector GF's Cleave does more than my 5.5k Sentinel GWF Wicked Strike AND Sure Strike.
Same feedback. Playing my GWF feels like I'm never tanky even when unstoppable. That could arguably be almost acceptable if I happened to deliver way way way more damage. But I deliver less than my GF alt.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
The lvl 70 scaling may very well render any testing wortless but neverthless I just did a test run in Icewind Pass as a Destroyer, so here's some feedback:
- Any and all mobs simply melted in seconds. I finished the Yeti HE in a record time - the Alpha was finished by a 160k IBS crit
- I had Restoring Strike slotted but never needed its use thanks to the new Temp HP and Unstoppable Recovery
- I was pretty tanky thanks to +movement speed, temp HP and near perma unstoppable in combat
- I see no reason to be a Sentinel in mod 6
- Destroyer Stacks fall too fast
Test was done with a lvl 60 GWF scaled to 70. Black Ice gear, 6 legendary items
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Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Destroyer and Weapon Master last 5 seconds (up from 3 s).
I think WM already lasts ~ 5 seconds. This will NOT fix anything.
Its VERY easy to dodge someone for 5 seconds in PVP. Its also EASIER to make a GWF lose his Destroyer Stacks in PVP since its only what, 25% chance to gain one per attack? This means you nearly have to be attacking once per second to stand ANY hope at even getting 2 or 3 stacks.
These stacks need to last ATLEAST ~8 seconds, I would even suggest making them last until combat ends. Same goes for Insta-Captsone. Needs to last until combat ends.
With Conq GFs theirs is a little different since they HAVE gap closers like Lunging Strike and Bull Charge. GWFs dont have that, we get ~5 seconds of sprint every 20 seconds ish. A GF gets nearly 3 lunging strikes and 2 bull charges in that same 20 seconds.
So we get 1-2 "closed" gaps, while they get up to 5? Yet the GWF is supposed to be more "mobile"?
Now yes it takes two encounter slots, I would GLADLY take both those encounters on my GWF, heck it might even make them more balancing being able to run: Lunging Strike/Bull Charge/Fissure(or IBS). that actually sounds alot of fun to me.
We need stacks to last much longer, we need better mobility - either encounters that close gaps or better stam gain.
Also the Temp HP from Unstoppable bein boosted by damage bonus is NOT GOOD. It doesnt fix the issue that:
A) We need more Temp HP to be REMOTELY VIABLE Its reliant upon damage bonuses which GWF has NO CONTROL over and cant even MAINTAIN it once they get it (like Detroyer Feat stacks)
Feedback: Hidden dagger: New Mod & Finally new Skill and all we get is just a "COPY PASTE" from TR?
where is the love for GWF, seriously why we don't have a own specific skill.
which fits much better the class .
The only thing we getting is nerf by nerf from every new coming MOD-
I don't know what you want to achieve with it?
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
main thing right now that GWF needs is incrase in survaviblity.
buff unstoppable recovery to heal 15% of total hp at max rank or make it heal 20% hp over 10 sec and does not stack.
also i would like to change sprint into something like HR dash just 2x the distance and 3 dodges 4 when feated, main reason is that sprint is the worst shift ability ingame atm it was good mod 1-2 but now?its heavily underperforming.
I actually really like sprint, with it I can dodge a lot more stuff than I normally could, I just hate how slow it recharges.
GWF has too many buffs/stacks to manage and they are in different places(self and target)
WMS strike debuff on target
Mark on target
Knives buff on self
Weapon Master stacks on self
Destroyer stacks on self
Destroyer/Instigator capstone
AoW set buff on self
Battle fury on self if using
+ any stacks from boons, potions, fireplace etc.
all those buffs are quite important to deal any damage, that:
1) shows how pathetic gwf base damage is
2) is really annoying and you have to spend a lot of time just tracking the buffs
3) takes attention away from the actual fight
these buffs increase gwf damage by more than 150% its insane why does a class has to be based on such a bad and annoying design ?
well funny part is with 150% dmg bonus we still have terrible dmg
havent had a chance to compare with dps classes, but i blow stuff up quite fast on my lvl 70 gwf with l70 artifact weapon @ epic rank. based on lvl 71 content gwf damage is around where it should be for dps classes, considering we dont even have most lvl 70 gear(if the tougher camps are correct ones, if the easy ones will be in mod6 then its a fail and classes should have their damage reduced by half)
Oks, but we can argue about "Sprint" mechanic AFTER devs fix the main class' problems, not before they do so, dont you think?
100% behind this.
I would again pose the TWO BIGGEST issues we have are:
1) Unstoppable Temp HP
- Needs to NOT be affected by healing depression and NOT buffed by damage bonus. The HD makes it impossible to balance PVE/PVP wise. It will continue to be either good in PVE and not enough in PVP or enough in PVP and too OP in PVE. Also the damage bonus is really bad since it only benefits GWF builds that stack damage bonus and our damage bonuses are built ontop of a crappy "stacking" mechanics. This needs to be a FLAT 4-5% Temp HP PER SECOND of unstoppable NOT affected by healing depression.
2) "Stacking" (Destroyer/Weapon master/Destroyer Capstone/ Insta Capstone)
- This is one of the other biggest issues we have. In PVE you can chain combat quickly so its less apparent anything is wrong, however weapon master and Destroyer stack times do NOT last long enough at all. In PVE you can achieve nice uptime however in PVP its nearly impossible due to "kiting" and "CC". Even our OWN daily - Avalanche of Steel REMOVES our stacks because they dont last as long as the animation. What they NEED to do is last upwards of ~8 seconds or I would EVEN pose that they last as long as you are "in combat". Now with regen only available outside combat, it seems making this distinction is only fair. Allow our damage stacking to last a long as we remain in combat, once we leave stacks fall off and we can start to regen HP.
Also, DEstroyer stacks are a bad design because the GWF must FIRST get TO unstoppable to then have a chance to gain them. This makes him rely HEAVILY on taking damage, something that is out of thei control. Yes they can built deter without it, but they are attacking without any damage boosts which means without those stacks you deal little damage. These stacks also need to just be a "flat" stack a destroyer gains off ANY attack. I would even be willing to give up "uptime" (currently 25 seconds) do accommodate this. I would even be happy with 10 seconds as long as we could stack them off ANY attack ANY time.
Also, Instagator capstone. You must TAKE damage to get a stack. Instagators have NO way to FORCE players to attack you in both PVE and PVP. So how can they build stacks? The WORST part about this is the uptime on stacks as well. Again this need to be buffed ALOT or even just made to be a 'lasts while IN combat' sort of thing as well.
Turn "Daring Shout" and "Come and get it" into damage dealer encounter powers and turn "intimidation" use that damage as its "base" damage As GWF-class still uses that stupid GF's mark mechanic, at least, upgrade it to us. Instigator and Destroyer SM must sacrifice 1 slot encounter to slot Daring Shout, mark enemies and deal damage because SM lacks from mark At-will power.
That'd be kinda cool actually, Intimidation can just work like the other Tier 3(4) feats and give 25% increased damage and shorter cooldowns. I'd probably look at using that then as a Sentinel would have a decent damage source that doesnt rely on flat power stacking / weapon damage, plus then I could be SM Sentinel and still have a source of mark. also please buff roars Damage so its not supernerfed anymore, testing on training dummys in trade of blades the Damage from Roar is some of the lowest damage we deal even with the 25% aoe increase, and we need stronger AOE encounters as a destroyer.
Well you would THINK they are looking at the amount of replies, I mean we have more than the NEW class (Paladin)! that should say something. A FULL brand new class is getting LESS response than an existing one that has been around since beta....
To me its a no brainer that the class is dead, even playing at lower levels its a joke - where as a TR with any decent weapon can 1 shot at low levels. I dont want to say we should balance based on lower levels but the class desperately needs a rework in some sorts. The at will damage reduction - reversal was great. That should have never been in the game from day 1.
However all the countless nerfs we have suffered with UNJUST reason. Back when module 3 came out I created a thread as did many other GWFs saying that GWF was far too powerful - I was NOT an advocate of just playing an "OP class".
Instead of taking that balanced feedback they ignored it. Then, module 4 instead of responding to a balance thread about the SMALL tweaks you could make to GWF to make them fair, they completely overhaul and OVER-nerf us.
Now they have a chance to do it again. FIX the class with MINOR changes. I DO NOT want another overhaul module 7 because the class didnt get enough attention module 6. There are (from what I see) TWO MAJOR areas and TWO MINOR area that need improvement. I will continue to repost them to have the best chance of getting seen.
MAJOR area 1: Unstoppable Temp HP - Any change/buff to the amount of Temp HP we gain is going to be NEARLY impossible to balance for both PVE and PVP. The Temp HP from Unstoppable needs to NOT be affected by healing depression. This gives you a fair amount for both PVE and PVP. It can either be: too good for PVE but balanced in PVP OR balanced for PVE but horrible for PVP. It cannot be both with Healing Depression.
Now there actually IS a way to get around this in PVP/PVE: number of hits. In PVE TYPICALLY you take less hits per second than in active combat in PVP. So you could in theory do something like this:
- Unstoppable now grants 5% temp HP each time you are struck while in unstoppable.Now in PVP this would only be 2.5% however it could proc off Dots as well. When you ARE hit things like DoTs, weapon enchants, procs all would assist this number while in PVE it would actually stay relatively balanced.
The only issue is it may actually be TOO powerful at 5% (I would need to test this) thus maybe something like 4% might be more inline - either way it would greatly increase what the GWF needs at this point in time - survival tools. Note this would need to NOT have an ICD otherwise your back to square 1: OP in PVE and UP(underpowered) in PVP. Or if it DOES have an ICD, it would need to be buffed up to like 10%+ per hit NETTING you 5% per hit in PVP per second...
MAJOR area 2: Damage Stacks - NO other class is as reliant upon stacks as the GWF. In fact no other class has such pathetic BASE damage than the GWF. Now I know what many people suggest: buff the base damage. I would tend to agree but this would require ALOT of balance re-work. What SEEMS to be a much easier/better approach is to modify our stacks to make them more reliable with more uptime.
ISSUES: Instagators Capstone - only lasts 6 seconds?! You are relying on BEING struck to gain stacks.
Destroyers Capstone - Lasts 25 seconds (good!) however you ONLY gain stacks while IN unstoppable and you dont deal good base damage THUS, are ALSO reliant upon TAKING damage to even have a CHANCE to gain stacks.
Destroyer (feat) - GREAT damage bonus, however takes up a feature slot AND stacks only last about 3-4 seconds. This feat is nearly impossible to get any benefit out of in PVP, while it CAN be great for PVE - due to mobs not having the "AI" to know to "kite" you.
Weapon Master (feat) - Not as bad as Destroyer but its still bad. Get a class to "dodge" 2x and you just lost your stacks.
These FOUR are the issues with stacking.
What can be done?
Well for starters: Instagators Capstone - This can remain as "being struck" however give a MUCH longer uptime on the stacks. It needs to be in the range of 8-10 seconds OR what I think would be even better is base the stack time on "in-combat" time. Stacks last as long as you remain in combat - regardless of being struck. THUS if you take 5 hits at the beginning of a fight, but never get struck again, atleast you got your damage buffs up so that you can DEAL damage again keeping you in combat, thus keeping your stacks.
Destroyers Capstone - There are a few options here. I actually have gone back on forth on them but will list them both here. First, these need to NOT be tied to Unstoppable. You should be able to get stacks at ANY time. We can keep the stacks at 10 total. Now with the increased stacking 25 seconds seems much too easy so option #1 would be the same as the above - they fall off when you LEAVE combat. As long as you are IN combat you keep them. Thus even if you are CC'd Kited around you stay in combat thus keeping stacks making it balanced for PVP. Second option, Make this stacking mechanic LIKE the new "Negation" in that each stack has its OWN "duration". You can even keep this duration upwards of 15+ seconds since it takes several seconds to even get TO max stacks. What this does is allows for faster stacking however still makes the GWF STAY in combat or he starts to lose those stacks.
Destroyer (Feat) Stacks:This one can also mimic the above. Either you gain stacks as you do currently and they last while IN combat. Or you could even increase the duration up to about 8 seconds. My only dis-like about having them tied to a set duration and not "in combat" status is if you are kited or use abilities like "Avalanche of Steel" you can easily lose your stacks.
Weapon Master (Feat):Again same as Destroyer Stacks. IN combat or drastically increased duration. I am not talking going from 5 to 6 seconds here. I am talking about 8-10 seconds at a MINIMUM. These low duration stacks hardly affect PVE AT ALL! However it is a MASSIVE impact to the class for PVP.
MINOR area 1: Stamina Gain This has already been PROVEN. GWFs have horrible stamina GAIN. Now this is a fine line because too much regen and we can STACK more regen and become "The Flash" sprinting everywhere having CC immunity and increased DR. However its safe to say what we have NOW is not enough.
Currently we can sprint for about 5 seconds with a full bar. If we stack ~19% stamina regen it takes about 18 seconds to regen back. Versus a TR who has 4 dodges however only stacking ~9% stamina regen can get his full meter back in under 16 seconds. So CLEARLY we need atleast a LITTLE boost to stamina gain.
Other Suggestions (that are pretty good imo) are to give an "insta" stamina regen if we pop unstoppable. This could easily be in the range of 25-50% based upon determination. This allows the GWF to use their stamina DEFENSIVELY without worrying about having to SAVE determination to use during unstoppable to try and CATCH someone. This would be in leiu of the stamina regen increase since we could use our 5+ seconds outside unstoppable and get a free 1-2 seconds during unstoppable.
MINOR area 2: Determination Gain - This is another area that got a significant nerf. I think something that will HELP this issue though (and why its minor IMO IF the other areas are implemented) are that damage buffs would be easier to obtain and temp HP boosts would also help us after our first unstoppable pop - potentially.
However there is still ONE thing I would like to see changed about how GWFs get this mechanic in general.
ALL GWFs, regardless of spec, should generate determination when DEALING damage. This is something that should not be pegged specifically to the Destroyer Class. That one change along with the other 3 above, would really help this class altogether.
CONCLUSION Now I can ASSURE you even if implementing EVERYTHING I suggested here to the TEE, you will NOT create a monster class. All you will honestly do is make the GWF back on par with other classes. Our PVE DPS would be up a LITTLE, our tankiness improved slightly - to offset our in combat regen loss, however its PVP where this class would finally be back to "competitive" again. We would have much more reliable tools in OUR kit to combat opponents. We would have easier acess to damage boosts as well as now dealing damage helps determination gain. We would get solid temp HP if an opponent is really attacking us and we would even have a little more mobility too.
NONE of this will make the class too OP, NONE of this requires DRASTIC changes to the class. I think that is key here. You could literally do ALL of the above VERY easily:
Temp HP:Gain 5% each time you are struck during unstoppable. Similar "coding" would be "Wilds Medicine" - which is a HoT and based on deflects. This would be the same however WITHOUT the ICD. Either that or remove the impact of healing depression on the Temp HP - This you already know how to do since the old PVP T1 Set had a set bonus that was getting around HD so obviously its possible... My guess is it wasnt "coded" as a "heal"
Stacking:Generally, ALL stacks should be based on "in combat" status and fall off only after we LEAVE combat. This works well with the new regen change and allows the GWF to not fear "being kited" and losing all their damage boosts - which are the ONLY thing making the class even SEEM like its balanced (when we DO have the stacks) but lose them and we are a joke.....
Stamina:Boost to stamina regen rate, OR possible look at other alternatives like restoring stamina on Unstoppable Pop.
Determination:ALL GWFs should inherently build determination when DEALING damage. This should not be pegged to Destroyers ONLY.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited March 2015
Feedback Gear Artifact set Lostmauth's Horn of Blasting :
Pls make the belt Str + Dex so we can finaly have 1 good artifact set for GWF i also ask to make neck to give bonus ac .
Thx
Changing the Armor Specialization feat to a 15%/20%/25% increase might really help to resist damage and distinguish fighters from other classes with all the stat changes.
Also, increasing deflection severity only for the GWF to 75% would make her the "agile" fighter tank, while the Guardian would remain the "immovable object".
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited March 2015
Feedback Sentinel
The main problem with tanking is the new DS and Cagi deal to low dmg to draw the agro.
The secondary problem is Wicked Strike we need this to reduce bosses dmg but we cannot sprint out if we use it .
Third is "Slam" slam was great in old days to build agro but now it cant do real dmg this can be fixed if you alow us to do crit with it .
Those things are not need such a great work and i think Sentinel can be a good tank.
The Temp Hp we get at 70 is pretty nice, But with how low our DR is at 70 it doesnt last long at all, Even specced defensively we cant do much or take many hits. I'll assume its still halved in PvP. and in that case its nowhere near enough.
"Hidden daggers" is such a Powerful encounter (wide Aoe 17-20k Crits :O) that it feels like we NEED to have it slotted or we cant do any damage, the problem I have with it is it does not fit the GWF at all, Why not make Roar work like this one, and have stacks, that makes more sense. or at least give it an animation and sound that fits us. It could a Large Swipe in front of us.
It's also hilarious that a Destroyer GWF seems to do less damage than a Sentinel GWF. though that may just be because a destroyer dies to fast and spends more time running then dealing damage
Our Dps and Survivability are lacking still. Heroics meant for single players are too hard to solo for us even at 70 with strong gear. we dont deal enough damage to kill it fast enough that our low survivability doesn't matter, My TR still deals with Aoe PvE fighting easier than my GWF does.
PvP I'll comment more on later when I've gotten into a Match.
like i suspected the temp HP is not enough.
the destroyer/instigator gets far more than the sentinel, because they have more damage bonus (capstones).
so scaling out of damage bonus is another bad idea, when you just could've increased the % out of max HP .
feedback : Sentinel
- iNTIMIDATION damage needs his amplifiers back, its damage is to small , fighting against players who have 100.000 HP, an sentinel is hitting them 2k - 6k crit, this is laughable, just bring back the amplifiers. leave it scaled on weapon damage, 125% out of 2000 weapon damage it's 2.500 base damage for intimidation, i just hoped we had at least 3500 base damage. maybe tommorow patch will give what i hoped for.
meaning that our weapon damage at BIS should be around 2.700-2900, and 125% is truly fair, if not increase it to 175%.
- Daring Shout and Come and Get it should get 2-3 seconds shorter, it's a must.
- After GWF uses a DAring shout he will buff his allies with Damage REsistance.
After GWF uses COme and Get it he will buff his allies with Flat Damage %.
TEMPORARY HITPOINTS FROM UNSTOPABLE
you get 40%-60% out of your MAX HP as TEMPORARY HITPOINTS THAT PERSISTS AFTER UNSTOPABLE IS OVER.
after by HD in PVP its 20%-30% out of your max HP.
so out of 100k hp its 20.000 hp as temporary hitpoints, and 30.000 temporary hitpoints this change should be made.
its not okai at all to get 11.000 hp / 50% damage bonus. what were you thinking ?
like i suspected the temp HP is not enough.
the destroyer/instigator gets far more than the sentinel, because they have more damage bonus (capstones).
so scaling out of damage bonus is another bad idea, when you just could've increased the % out of max HP .
feedback : Sentinel
- iNTIMIDATION damage needs his amplifiers back, its damage is to small , fighting against players who have 100.000 HP, an sentinel is hitting them 2k - 6k crit, this is laughable, just bring back the amplifiers. leave it scaled on weapon damage, 125% out of 2000 weapon damage it's 2.500 base damage for intimidation, i just hoped we had at least 3500 base damage. maybe tommorow patch will give what i hoped for.
meaning that our weapon damage at BIS should be around 2.700-2900, and 125% is truly fair, if not increase it to 175%.
- Daring Shout and Come and Get it should get 2-3 seconds shorter, it's a must.
- After GWF uses a DAring shout he will buff his allies with Damage REsistance.
After GWF uses COme and Get it he will buff his allies with Flat Damage %.
TEMPORARY HITPOINTS FROM UNSTOPABLE
you get 40%-60% out of your MAX HP as TEMPORARY HITPOINTS THAT PERSISTS AFTER UNSTOPABLE IS OVER.
after by HD in PVP its 20%-30% out of your max HP.
so out of 100k hp its 20.000 hp as temporary hitpoints, and 30.000 temporary hitpoints this change should be made.
its not okai at all to get 11.000 hp / 50% damage bonus. what were you thinking ?
It just needs to be like 20-40% and NOT be affected by HD at all. So at 100k hp in both PvE and PvP you get 40k at full deter. and 20 at half. that'd be fine for both pve and pvp.
Bigger problem in pvp is how hard it is to lock a good player down. bad players stand still so we can hit them, a goodplayer will just kite us.
I'm really concerned about the output at 70 in PvE though, 60 being scaled to 70 seemed ok. but actually at 70 Tanks are really weak other than the Paladin (who basically cant die unless your team focussed them, Good tank is good)
Feedback : Grand Fissure
The damage on this is a joke. ~3k base at level 70 with 13k power? Hidden daggers hits twice as hard, has 3 charges, AND is easier to land. This power should be like near IBS damage with the animation and the length of time it takes to cast.
Feedback : PVP Damage output
So.. An Ilvl 1,482 Oathbound paladin( wearing basic greens and low level enchants), can outheal any damage I attempt as a Ilvl 2,841 GWF (wearing the New PVP gear, and with Pure Vorpal.)
A maxed out 100% BiS Gf, can kill me simply from reflect damage (nothing else) without even losing 10% hp.
This does not sound like a good balance.
Feedback : GWF and Heoric Epics
Attempted "Easy" level Heoric epics in IwP and In WoD. Solo, had no chance at all, Watched a TR solo it with far higher damage output after my third death happened. I'm starting to think our entire class is just flawed beyond repair and needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited March 2015
BUG: Grand Fissure(rank3-rank4) now deal even lower dmg then my at will .
So.. An Ilvl 1,482 Oathbound paladin( wearing basic greens and low level enchants), can outheal any damage I attempt as a Ilvl 2,841 GWF (wearing the New PVP gear, and with Pure Vorpal.)
Comments
Destroyer and Weapon Master last 5 seconds (up from 3 s).
TAKEDOWN - now prone players when used in unstoppable ,but costs 10% of determination.
STEEL BLITZ (rework) - every time you critically hit a foe you reduce the cooldown of your last encounter used by 1%. (+0.5% per rank).
BATTLE FURY (rework) - Increase your atwill and encounter damage , grants you combat advantage and 3% more critical chance. In addition , when first activated your stamina is refilled. This buffs is only for you (damage buff : +5% , critical strike : +1% , buffs : +1 s per rank).
INSTIGATOR / CRIPPLING STRIKE (rework) : your teammates are buffed for the effect of Battle Fury and gain 10/20/30/40/50% of the benefits. The buffs last 3 more seconds.
PUNISHING CHARGE : now stuns players when used in unstoppable.
DESTROYER / UNFETTERED STRIKES (rework) : Successful melee attacks increase your life steal chance by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1% for 4 seconds. This effect stacks 5 times.
Same feedback. Playing my GWF feels like I'm never tanky even when unstoppable. That could arguably be almost acceptable if I happened to deliver way way way more damage. But I deliver less than my GF alt.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
- Any and all mobs simply melted in seconds. I finished the Yeti HE in a record time - the Alpha was finished by a 160k IBS crit
- I had Restoring Strike slotted but never needed its use thanks to the new Temp HP and Unstoppable Recovery
- I was pretty tanky thanks to +movement speed, temp HP and near perma unstoppable in combat
- I see no reason to be a Sentinel in mod 6
- Destroyer Stacks fall too fast
Test was done with a lvl 60 GWF scaled to 70. Black Ice gear, 6 legendary items
-
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I think WM already lasts ~ 5 seconds. This will NOT fix anything.
Its VERY easy to dodge someone for 5 seconds in PVP. Its also EASIER to make a GWF lose his Destroyer Stacks in PVP since its only what, 25% chance to gain one per attack? This means you nearly have to be attacking once per second to stand ANY hope at even getting 2 or 3 stacks.
These stacks need to last ATLEAST ~8 seconds, I would even suggest making them last until combat ends. Same goes for Insta-Captsone. Needs to last until combat ends.
With Conq GFs theirs is a little different since they HAVE gap closers like Lunging Strike and Bull Charge. GWFs dont have that, we get ~5 seconds of sprint every 20 seconds ish. A GF gets nearly 3 lunging strikes and 2 bull charges in that same 20 seconds.
So we get 1-2 "closed" gaps, while they get up to 5? Yet the GWF is supposed to be more "mobile"?
Now yes it takes two encounter slots, I would GLADLY take both those encounters on my GWF, heck it might even make them more balancing being able to run: Lunging Strike/Bull Charge/Fissure(or IBS). that actually sounds alot of fun to me.
We need stacks to last much longer, we need better mobility - either encounters that close gaps or better stam gain.
Also the Temp HP from Unstoppable bein boosted by damage bonus is NOT GOOD. It doesnt fix the issue that:
A) We need more Temp HP to be REMOTELY VIABLE
where is the love for GWF, seriously why we don't have a own specific skill.
which fits much better the class .
The only thing we getting is nerf by nerf from every new coming MOD-
I don't know what you want to achieve with it?
I actually really like sprint, with it I can dodge a lot more stuff than I normally could, I just hate how slow it recharges.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
WMS strike debuff on target
Mark on target
Knives buff on self
Weapon Master stacks on self
Destroyer stacks on self
Destroyer/Instigator capstone
AoW set buff on self
Battle fury on self if using
+ any stacks from boons, potions, fireplace etc.
all those buffs are quite important to deal any damage, that:
1) shows how pathetic gwf base damage is
2) is really annoying and you have to spend a lot of time just tracking the buffs
3) takes attention away from the actual fight
these buffs increase gwf damage by more than 150% its insane why does a class has to be based on such a bad and annoying design ?
havent had a chance to compare with dps classes, but i blow stuff up quite fast on my lvl 70 gwf with l70 artifact weapon @ epic rank. based on lvl 71 content gwf damage is around where it should be for dps classes, considering we dont even have most lvl 70 gear(if the tougher camps are correct ones, if the easy ones will be in mod6 then its a fail and classes should have their damage reduced by half)
100% behind this.
I would again pose the TWO BIGGEST issues we have are:
1) Unstoppable Temp HP
- Needs to NOT be affected by healing depression and NOT buffed by damage bonus. The HD makes it impossible to balance PVE/PVP wise. It will continue to be either good in PVE and not enough in PVP or enough in PVP and too OP in PVE. Also the damage bonus is really bad since it only benefits GWF builds that stack damage bonus and our damage bonuses are built ontop of a crappy "stacking" mechanics. This needs to be a FLAT 4-5% Temp HP PER SECOND of unstoppable NOT affected by healing depression.
2) "Stacking" (Destroyer/Weapon master/Destroyer Capstone/ Insta Capstone)
- This is one of the other biggest issues we have. In PVE you can chain combat quickly so its less apparent anything is wrong, however weapon master and Destroyer stack times do NOT last long enough at all. In PVE you can achieve nice uptime however in PVP its nearly impossible due to "kiting" and "CC". Even our OWN daily - Avalanche of Steel REMOVES our stacks because they dont last as long as the animation. What they NEED to do is last upwards of ~8 seconds or I would EVEN pose that they last as long as you are "in combat". Now with regen only available outside combat, it seems making this distinction is only fair. Allow our damage stacking to last a long as we remain in combat, once we leave stacks fall off and we can start to regen HP.
Also, DEstroyer stacks are a bad design because the GWF must FIRST get TO unstoppable to then have a chance to gain them. This makes him rely HEAVILY on taking damage, something that is out of thei control. Yes they can built deter without it, but they are attacking without any damage boosts which means without those stacks you deal little damage. These stacks also need to just be a "flat" stack a destroyer gains off ANY attack. I would even be willing to give up "uptime" (currently 25 seconds) do accommodate this. I would even be happy with 10 seconds as long as we could stack them off ANY attack ANY time.
Also, Instagator capstone. You must TAKE damage to get a stack. Instagators have NO way to FORCE players to attack you in both PVE and PVP. So how can they build stacks? The WORST part about this is the uptime on stacks as well. Again this need to be buffed ALOT or even just made to be a 'lasts while IN combat' sort of thing as well.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
oh; wait. in dark souls you dont need stacks and have dodge...
edit just for fun: "beat a cw in pve" or rogue in pvp is more hard than play dark souls... hahahahaha
That'd be kinda cool actually, Intimidation can just work like the other Tier 3(4) feats and give 25% increased damage and shorter cooldowns. I'd probably look at using that then as a Sentinel would have a decent damage source that doesnt rely on flat power stacking / weapon damage, plus then I could be SM Sentinel and still have a source of mark. also please buff roars Damage so its not supernerfed anymore, testing on training dummys in trade of blades the Damage from Roar is some of the lowest damage we deal even with the 25% aoe increase, and we need stronger AOE encounters as a destroyer.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
To me its a no brainer that the class is dead, even playing at lower levels its a joke - where as a TR with any decent weapon can 1 shot at low levels. I dont want to say we should balance based on lower levels but the class desperately needs a rework in some sorts. The at will damage reduction - reversal was great. That should have never been in the game from day 1.
However all the countless nerfs we have suffered with UNJUST reason. Back when module 3 came out I created a thread as did many other GWFs saying that GWF was far too powerful - I was NOT an advocate of just playing an "OP class".
Instead of taking that balanced feedback they ignored it. Then, module 4 instead of responding to a balance thread about the SMALL tweaks you could make to GWF to make them fair, they completely overhaul and OVER-nerf us.
Now they have a chance to do it again. FIX the class with MINOR changes. I DO NOT want another overhaul module 7 because the class didnt get enough attention module 6. There are (from what I see) TWO MAJOR areas and TWO MINOR area that need improvement. I will continue to repost them to have the best chance of getting seen.
MAJOR area 1: Unstoppable Temp HP
- Any change/buff to the amount of Temp HP we gain is going to be NEARLY impossible to balance for both PVE and PVP. The Temp HP from Unstoppable needs to NOT be affected by healing depression. This gives you a fair amount for both PVE and PVP. It can either be: too good for PVE but balanced in PVP OR balanced for PVE but horrible for PVP. It cannot be both with Healing Depression.
Now there actually IS a way to get around this in PVP/PVE: number of hits. In PVE TYPICALLY you take less hits per second than in active combat in PVP. So you could in theory do something like this:
- Unstoppable now grants 5% temp HP each time you are struck while in unstoppable. Now in PVP this would only be 2.5% however it could proc off Dots as well. When you ARE hit things like DoTs, weapon enchants, procs all would assist this number while in PVE it would actually stay relatively balanced.
The only issue is it may actually be TOO powerful at 5% (I would need to test this) thus maybe something like 4% might be more inline - either way it would greatly increase what the GWF needs at this point in time - survival tools. Note this would need to NOT have an ICD otherwise your back to square 1: OP in PVE and UP(underpowered) in PVP. Or if it DOES have an ICD, it would need to be buffed up to like 10%+ per hit NETTING you 5% per hit in PVP per second...
MAJOR area 2: Damage Stacks
- NO other class is as reliant upon stacks as the GWF. In fact no other class has such pathetic BASE damage than the GWF. Now I know what many people suggest: buff the base damage. I would tend to agree but this would require ALOT of balance re-work. What SEEMS to be a much easier/better approach is to modify our stacks to make them more reliable with more uptime.
ISSUES:
Instagators Capstone - only lasts 6 seconds?! You are relying on BEING struck to gain stacks.
Destroyers Capstone - Lasts 25 seconds (good!) however you ONLY gain stacks while IN unstoppable and you dont deal good base damage THUS, are ALSO reliant upon TAKING damage to even have a CHANCE to gain stacks.
Destroyer (feat) - GREAT damage bonus, however takes up a feature slot AND stacks only last about 3-4 seconds. This feat is nearly impossible to get any benefit out of in PVP, while it CAN be great for PVE - due to mobs not having the "AI" to know to "kite" you.
Weapon Master (feat) - Not as bad as Destroyer but its still bad. Get a class to "dodge" 2x and you just lost your stacks.
These FOUR are the issues with stacking.
What can be done?
Well for starters:
Instagators Capstone - This can remain as "being struck" however give a MUCH longer uptime on the stacks. It needs to be in the range of 8-10 seconds OR what I think would be even better is base the stack time on "in-combat" time. Stacks last as long as you remain in combat - regardless of being struck. THUS if you take 5 hits at the beginning of a fight, but never get struck again, atleast you got your damage buffs up so that you can DEAL damage again keeping you in combat, thus keeping your stacks.
Destroyers Capstone - There are a few options here. I actually have gone back on forth on them but will list them both here. First, these need to NOT be tied to Unstoppable. You should be able to get stacks at ANY time. We can keep the stacks at 10 total. Now with the increased stacking 25 seconds seems much too easy so option #1 would be the same as the above - they fall off when you LEAVE combat. As long as you are IN combat you keep them. Thus even if you are CC'd Kited around you stay in combat thus keeping stacks making it balanced for PVP. Second option, Make this stacking mechanic LIKE the new "Negation" in that each stack has its OWN "duration". You can even keep this duration upwards of 15+ seconds since it takes several seconds to even get TO max stacks. What this does is allows for faster stacking however still makes the GWF STAY in combat or he starts to lose those stacks.
Destroyer (Feat) Stacks: This one can also mimic the above. Either you gain stacks as you do currently and they last while IN combat. Or you could even increase the duration up to about 8 seconds. My only dis-like about having them tied to a set duration and not "in combat" status is if you are kited or use abilities like "Avalanche of Steel" you can easily lose your stacks.
Weapon Master (Feat): Again same as Destroyer Stacks. IN combat or drastically increased duration. I am not talking going from 5 to 6 seconds here. I am talking about 8-10 seconds at a MINIMUM. These low duration stacks hardly affect PVE AT ALL! However it is a MASSIVE impact to the class for PVP.
MINOR area 1: Stamina Gain
This has already been PROVEN. GWFs have horrible stamina GAIN. Now this is a fine line because too much regen and we can STACK more regen and become "The Flash" sprinting everywhere having CC immunity and increased DR. However its safe to say what we have NOW is not enough.
Currently we can sprint for about 5 seconds with a full bar. If we stack ~19% stamina regen it takes about 18 seconds to regen back. Versus a TR who has 4 dodges however only stacking ~9% stamina regen can get his full meter back in under 16 seconds. So CLEARLY we need atleast a LITTLE boost to stamina gain.
Other Suggestions (that are pretty good imo) are to give an "insta" stamina regen if we pop unstoppable. This could easily be in the range of 25-50% based upon determination. This allows the GWF to use their stamina DEFENSIVELY without worrying about having to SAVE determination to use during unstoppable to try and CATCH someone. This would be in leiu of the stamina regen increase since we could use our 5+ seconds outside unstoppable and get a free 1-2 seconds during unstoppable.
MINOR area 2: Determination Gain
- This is another area that got a significant nerf. I think something that will HELP this issue though (and why its minor IMO IF the other areas are implemented) are that damage buffs would be easier to obtain and temp HP boosts would also help us after our first unstoppable pop - potentially.
However there is still ONE thing I would like to see changed about how GWFs get this mechanic in general.
ALL GWFs, regardless of spec, should generate determination when DEALING damage. This is something that should not be pegged specifically to the Destroyer Class. That one change along with the other 3 above, would really help this class altogether.
CONCLUSION
Now I can ASSURE you even if implementing EVERYTHING I suggested here to the TEE, you will NOT create a monster class. All you will honestly do is make the GWF back on par with other classes. Our PVE DPS would be up a LITTLE, our tankiness improved slightly - to offset our in combat regen loss, however its PVP where this class would finally be back to "competitive" again. We would have much more reliable tools in OUR kit to combat opponents. We would have easier acess to damage boosts as well as now dealing damage helps determination gain. We would get solid temp HP if an opponent is really attacking us and we would even have a little more mobility too.
NONE of this will make the class too OP, NONE of this requires DRASTIC changes to the class. I think that is key here. You could literally do ALL of the above VERY easily:
Temp HP: Gain 5% each time you are struck during unstoppable. Similar "coding" would be "Wilds Medicine" - which is a HoT and based on deflects. This would be the same however WITHOUT the ICD. Either that or remove the impact of healing depression on the Temp HP - This you already know how to do since the old PVP T1 Set had a set bonus that was getting around HD so obviously its possible... My guess is it wasnt "coded" as a "heal"
Stacking: Generally, ALL stacks should be based on "in combat" status and fall off only after we LEAVE combat. This works well with the new regen change and allows the GWF to not fear "being kited" and losing all their damage boosts - which are the ONLY thing making the class even SEEM like its balanced (when we DO have the stacks) but lose them and we are a joke.....
Stamina: Boost to stamina regen rate, OR possible look at other alternatives like restoring stamina on Unstoppable Pop.
Determination: ALL GWFs should inherently build determination when DEALING damage. This should not be pegged to Destroyers ONLY.
Lostmauth's Horn of Blasting :
Pls make the belt Str + Dex so we can finaly have 1 good artifact set for GWF i also ask to make neck to give bonus ac .
Thx
yes please str and dex, my trickster is waiting drooling....
that thing is op and not even comparable to other sets.
is really 100% weapon damage?
Changing the Armor Specialization feat to a 15%/20%/25% increase might really help to resist damage and distinguish fighters from other classes with all the stat changes.
Also, increasing deflection severity only for the GWF to 75% would make her the "agile" fighter tank, while the Guardian would remain the "immovable object".
The main problem with tanking is the new DS and Cagi deal to low dmg to draw the agro.
The secondary problem is Wicked Strike we need this to reduce bosses dmg but we cannot sprint out if we use it .
Third is "Slam" slam was great in old days to build agro but now it cant do real dmg this can be fixed if you alow us to do crit with it .
Those things are not need such a great work and i think Sentinel can be a good tank.
The Temp Hp we get at 70 is pretty nice, But with how low our DR is at 70 it doesnt last long at all, Even specced defensively we cant do much or take many hits. I'll assume its still halved in PvP. and in that case its nowhere near enough.
"Hidden daggers" is such a Powerful encounter (wide Aoe 17-20k Crits :O) that it feels like we NEED to have it slotted or we cant do any damage, the problem I have with it is it does not fit the GWF at all, Why not make Roar work like this one, and have stacks, that makes more sense. or at least give it an animation and sound that fits us. It could a Large Swipe in front of us.
It's also hilarious that a Destroyer GWF seems to do less damage than a Sentinel GWF. though that may just be because a destroyer dies to fast and spends more time running then dealing damage
Our Dps and Survivability are lacking still. Heroics meant for single players are too hard to solo for us even at 70 with strong gear. we dont deal enough damage to kill it fast enough that our low survivability doesn't matter, My TR still deals with Aoe PvE fighting easier than my GWF does.
PvP I'll comment more on later when I've gotten into a Match.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
the destroyer/instigator gets far more than the sentinel, because they have more damage bonus (capstones).
so scaling out of damage bonus is another bad idea, when you just could've increased the % out of max HP .
feedback : Sentinel
- iNTIMIDATION damage needs his amplifiers back, its damage is to small , fighting against players who have 100.000 HP, an sentinel is hitting them 2k - 6k crit, this is laughable, just bring back the amplifiers. leave it scaled on weapon damage, 125% out of 2000 weapon damage it's 2.500 base damage for intimidation, i just hoped we had at least 3500 base damage. maybe tommorow patch will give what i hoped for.
meaning that our weapon damage at BIS should be around 2.700-2900, and 125% is truly fair, if not increase it to 175%.
- Daring Shout and Come and Get it should get 2-3 seconds shorter, it's a must.
- After GWF uses a DAring shout he will buff his allies with Damage REsistance.
After GWF uses COme and Get it he will buff his allies with Flat Damage %.
TEMPORARY HITPOINTS FROM UNSTOPABLE
you get 40%-60% out of your MAX HP as TEMPORARY HITPOINTS THAT PERSISTS AFTER UNSTOPABLE IS OVER.
after by HD in PVP its 20%-30% out of your max HP.
so out of 100k hp its 20.000 hp as temporary hitpoints, and 30.000 temporary hitpoints this change should be made.
its not okai at all to get 11.000 hp / 50% damage bonus. what were you thinking ?
It just needs to be like 20-40% and NOT be affected by HD at all. So at 100k hp in both PvE and PvP you get 40k at full deter. and 20 at half. that'd be fine for both pve and pvp.
Bigger problem in pvp is how hard it is to lock a good player down. bad players stand still so we can hit them, a goodplayer will just kite us.
I'm really concerned about the output at 70 in PvE though, 60 being scaled to 70 seemed ok. but actually at 70 Tanks are really weak other than the Paladin (who basically cant die unless your team focussed them, Good tank is good)
Feedback : Grand Fissure
The damage on this is a joke. ~3k base at level 70 with 13k power? Hidden daggers hits twice as hard, has 3 charges, AND is easier to land. This power should be like near IBS damage with the animation and the length of time it takes to cast.
Feedback : PVP Damage output
So.. An Ilvl 1,482 Oathbound paladin( wearing basic greens and low level enchants), can outheal any damage I attempt as a Ilvl 2,841 GWF (wearing the New PVP gear, and with Pure Vorpal.)
A maxed out 100% BiS Gf, can kill me simply from reflect damage (nothing else) without even losing 10% hp.
This does not sound like a good balance.
Feedback : GWF and Heoric Epics
Attempted "Easy" level Heoric epics in IwP and In WoD. Solo, had no chance at all, Watched a TR solo it with far higher damage output after my third death happened. I'm starting to think our entire class is just flawed beyond repair and needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Be more specific Oathbound "devoted" paladin.