Here is a build that has both the Thaumaturge capstone and Abyss of Chaos. Abyss of Chaos does double the DPS of Assailant.
This is only using a slow attacking tank companion. If I used a high attack rate companion to trigger Abyss of Chaos more frequently it would do much, much more damage.
if your number are correct, this means 2 cw with Abyss of chaos = insane dmg over time, cuz both are aoe class so u both will have the AoC going on in every attack, if i am thinking right.
I was doing a DPS test on a Renegade build on the preview server on three test dummies in the Trade of Blades. Something went very wrong. Storm Spell and Icy Terrain stopped inflicting damage altogether. They just plain could not hit anything. There were still animations and the dummies were still freezing, but there was no damage. ACT parse below shows many casts of the spells over 8 minutes but virtually no damage.
Feedback: Abyss of Chaos
If you can find a companion that has a damage over time attack then every tick of damage procs Abyss of Chaos which creates the hilarious damage output seen below:
Lighting Enchantments' arcs will consume Abyss of Chaos stacks since they appear to be flagged as an ally's attack. In other words, with a Lightning Enchantment you can get the Abyss damage without any ally around.
This is in conjunction to my previous post. This parse was done on training dummies with a Pure Lightning Enchantment.
The test environment is far from optimal but it displays that the aforementioned effect does indeed happen and there are builds that can heavily abuse this. I used a build that has 5/5 in Spell twisting and Abyss and merely used CoI, Icy Terrain and Chilling cloud. Feedback (Abyss | Spell Twisting): Damage is thru the roof thanks to Abyss and Spell Twisting allowshHaving multiple instances of Icy Terrain and Conduit of Ice up at the same time. This effect is also reproducible versus real mobs. Not quite to the same extent of course since in a "real-world scenario" movement and CC are required contrary to this here utilized test environment. Ignore damage values and percentages, just pay attention to procs of Abyss and activation of encoutners relative to the encounter's time.
Question: Is the application of stacks of both Spell Twisting and Abyss of Chaos upon each individual hit of an encounter power intended or not?
Can we please get away from damage increases as a substitute for true innovation when adding new powers and abilities to the CW? The **** class does too much damage as it is with ridiculous procs and offensive stat synergies. How about we look at other areas to improve the CW instead. Why not have feats and features that make the CW's attacks increase cooldown periods on enemy powers, or reduce enemy stamina/movement speeds. Why aren't there debuffs that attack regen, crit percentage and severity or deflection. Why Do you reserve these functions for half assed new top end gear?
I am so f***ing sick of CW's and their damage boosts. They don't need them, we can't even get the ones that are broken fixed. Is it honestly that difficult to come up with something other than "you now do 2/4/6/8/10% more damage"? Honestly? It seems to me nothing could be easier. Here I'll do one for you; Arcane Buffer: When you have Shield active and are struck in combat, your attacker suffers a 2/4/6/8/10% debuff to their crit and crit severity for 4 seconds. This ability does not stack with itself.
Or Siphoning Magics: Your Ray of Enfeeblement now increases cooldowns on its target by 5/10/15/20/25% during it's duration and enemies effected by chill suffer a .5/1.1.5/2/2.5% penalty to their deflection per stack of chill.
BUG: Spell Twisting: It has multiprocs on several CW ability like Icy Terrain on aoe or Coudult of Ice on single- where every tick of dmg give you stack. Basicly I can use CoI before it even ends or just hold left mouse and keep clicking tab q w e r (one sec cd and I can repeat it).
If you intended cw to have 1 sec cd on every skill then then it is not bug.
BUG: Spell Twisting: It has multiprocs on several CW ability like Icy Terrain on aoe or Coudult of Ice on single- where every tick of dmg give you stack. Basicly I can use CoI before it even ends or just hold left mouse and keep clicking tab q w e r (one sec cd and I can repeat it).
If you intended cw to have 1 sec cd on every skill then then it is not bug.
this is ridicolous i just tested it cant be wai.
abyss chaos is out of control too and doing way more damages than stated (10-12k sometimes even 18-24k). It procs after every tick of encounter damage (icy terrain and conduit of ice for example) and it auto proc with some dot enchants.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
I think a good start is to make sure Abyss of Chaos and Spell Twisting are only proc'ing ONCE per encounter CAST, not on damage. Right now, with both proc'ing on damage, I think it's throwing the test way out of line.
So my suggestion before a flat damage nerf is to incorporate that feedback, then let us test some more. Because right now, there's nothing really else to look at, until we get some response on these pretty significant issues from the devs.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
BUG: Abyss of Chaos
Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain proc Abbys of Chaos on each individual damage tick. Here's a clip of an ACT log showing an encounter in the Drowned Shores against live mobs, NOT on test dummies. I was using the Zhetarim Warlock as my companion. You can clearly see 4 procs of Abyss of Chaos activate off a single casting of Conduit of Ice. You see the Conduit of Ice hit, then the Eldritch Blast (the companion's attack) and the Abyss of Chaos. The cycle repeats for the next 4 ticks. The same holds true for Icy Terrain.
So there is the potential for a CW stacking Icy Terrain and Conduit of Ice to stack Abyss of Chaos incredibly quick, resulting in substantially more damage that intended.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited February 2015
Moderator Notice:
This thread has been cleaned and many posts edited to be proper format.
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Able to fire off skills that are encounters with basically no CD. Which is causing the skills that need an encounter use to fire off in rapid succession (abyss of chaos) due to this a miss conception of bugs in other skills are taking place. Its a combination of things. That of which I'm going to upload a frap's of me testing it (if i get time). With spell twisting and without spell twisting. Its not abyss that's proc'ing none stop its the fact that Spell Twisting is resetting the CDs of encounters. Because without a reset of the skill its self it will not proc none stop.... Abyss is not bugged. Its just being exploited...
It has no ICD and it resets the CD's on encounters almost as fast as you can cast them if your quick enough. This in turn meets the conditions needed for abyss to proc. So the procing over and over again of abyss is apparent. If there were an ICD on Spell Twisting it would be a start. Because no serious testing can be done with unlimited skill use.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited February 2015
i tested my self poeple above have right abyss procs for each tick of conduit. if you plan to remove the abyss for each tick of conduit remove also from thaymatourge the exactly same formula adding stacks of spell twist.for each tick of conduit spell twisting stack very fast up to 3 times.
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
BUG: Spell Twisting and Conduit of Ice/Icy Terrain/Steal Time
Each "tick" of Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain adds a stack of Spell Twisting to the caster. For example, one cast of Steal Time will stack Spell Twisting 3 times.
BUG: Abyss of Chaos and Icy Terrain
Each damaging tick of Icy Terrain procs Abyss of Chaos. Log posted below show. Eldritch Blast is being casted about 1/sec by my Warlock pet to trigger Abyss of Chaos. Abyss is then immidiately reapplied by damage from the same cast of Icy Terrain. This log shows 9 procs of Abyss in roughly 12 seconds.
I'd gladly exchange one or all of these useless renegade feats for:
- one that reduces cool down on every encounter/daily/feat that has CD.
- reflects some damage to the attacker.
Suggested feats are terrible if they do not apply to the CW as well. Because many play solo a lot and in such case investing in these feats is just waste of EotS or Spell Storm slot. No sane CW will exchange for charity.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Here is a vid. for you to pass on to the devs about lightning triggering Abyss of Chaos. It causes this with other skills that depend on the use of encounters to active as well im sure. Also tested vorpal to make sure that it is and isolated occurance. And it is. It will not proc when using a vorpal enchant without others around. But lightning will. The fact that it does this when alone, means that its causing an abnormal amount of procs when in a group of people.
Question : Can CW spell tooltip show if they are single target or AOE, and if they are control or damage (non-control) ?
Feedback : Some of the set bonus, feat and class feat use a distinction between spell that are single-target/AOE and if they are control spell are not. It will be even more important with Life Steal announced change (30% on AOE).
And the fact that some spell change from damage to control, from single-target to AOE, when slotted in Mastery don't help here.
I usually return to the forum to found what spell work with this feat or not. And some information are out-dated and/or revel to be difficult to test easily.
it give a single target that aren't a Freeze. (*I chain control the cleric, focus on the TR*)
quick Arcane Mastery stacking tool and can result in combo with Arcane Presence
Disintegrate is interesting:
it give an *Execute* spell
it give a pure damage single-target spell, complementary to Ray of Enfeeblement.
I haven't the level to test them.
If 60 has 3 power, we can have more power at 65 & 70, like 2 or 3 more.
I can see At-will at level 65, one common and one for MoF/SS. And at 70, it could be one common daily and one daily + one encounter for MoF/SS.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
And Abyss of Chaos tooltip don't show Piercing damage
You're right. It looks like they addressed some of the bugs in this build. Abyss no longer does piercing damage, which cut it's damage by about 50% give or take. Which is good. It's still powerful, and still has to be activated by not you, which is a fair trade off, I guess. It still activates on each hit of CoI and IT though. It really depends on how powerful they want this to be. If it's fixed to work only once per encounter cast, I think it puts it in a good spot.
Spell Twisting was also fixed. It only stacks once per encounter now.
Disintegrate is interesting. Probably going to need a lot of work, but it's cool to see CW's give one big nothing but damage single target encounter power.
Feedback: Spell Twisting
Great job on Spell Twisting. I like how it performs now.
Feedback: Abyss of Chaos
Abyss is still far too strong. I think allowing it to only apply a stack on the initial damage tick would put it more in line.
Bug: Abyss of Chaos + Lightning Enchantment
This bug is still existent. If two or more targets are struck by an encounter power with a Lightning Enchantment the stacks will be applied immediately consumed and correspondingly damage caused. I could imagine that the lightning arc is erroneously flagged as "ally" and not "player" or something.
My weapon is 1200ish also. Like to see a screenshot of a 3500 one.
I tested disintegrate also and was getting 5k to 9k from tier4. So idk what to say maybe its bugged.
Weapon damage seems to actively scale as you move about , in preview PE mine shows as-
Then when I go to WoD it becomes -
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
I was just about to post the same thing. It's when you get scaled up to 70. However, the rest of your gear doesn't seem to be getting scaled.
So you have the weapon damage of a power level 70 item, but the health of a weak level 60. That's probably why people are getting one-shotted with this thing. The damage on my disintegrate is about 150k :eek:
I think the real bug is that Cryptic's formula for level scaling is all wonky.
It sounds like the problem may not be with the spell or encounter, but, the scaling.
The min damage on disintegrate for me is 35k in the description and I have never hit for that much, so something is obviously wrong.
If other classes are seeing the same type of effect in different zones then it must be the scaling.
Feedback: Abyss of Chaos
Abyss is still far too strong. I think allowing it to only apply a stack on the initial damage tick would put it more in line.
Currently, Abyss of Chaos seems to put out far more damage than Storm Spell....using only a companion to proc it....
The new feats should be moved to the 4th tier.
Currently, you can get the endcap for one path & still put 5 points into the new feats from another.
As the new feats seem to be intended to have some potency to them (though I doubt the broken potency they currently have), would it not make more sense to ensure someone can't get them from two paths along with an endcap?
Comments
Here is a build that has both the Thaumaturge capstone and Abyss of Chaos. Abyss of Chaos does double the DPS of Assailant.
This is only using a slow attacking tank companion. If I used a high attack rate companion to trigger Abyss of Chaos more frequently it would do much, much more damage.
I was doing a DPS test on a Renegade build on the preview server on three test dummies in the Trade of Blades. Something went very wrong. Storm Spell and Icy Terrain stopped inflicting damage altogether. They just plain could not hit anything. There were still animations and the dummies were still freezing, but there was no damage. ACT parse below shows many casts of the spells over 8 minutes but virtually no damage.
Feedback: Abyss of Chaos
If you can find a companion that has a damage over time attack then every tick of damage procs Abyss of Chaos which creates the hilarious damage output seen below:
Lighting Enchantments' arcs will consume Abyss of Chaos stacks since they appear to be flagged as an ally's attack. In other words, with a Lightning Enchantment you can get the Abyss damage without any ally around.
The test environment is far from optimal but it displays that the aforementioned effect does indeed happen and there are builds that can heavily abuse this. I used a build that has 5/5 in Spell twisting and Abyss and merely used CoI, Icy Terrain and Chilling cloud.
Feedback (Abyss | Spell Twisting):
Damage is thru the roof thanks to Abyss and Spell Twisting allowshHaving multiple instances of Icy Terrain and Conduit of Ice up at the same time. This effect is also reproducible versus real mobs. Not quite to the same extent of course since in a "real-world scenario" movement and CC are required contrary to this here utilized test environment. Ignore damage values and percentages, just pay attention to procs of Abyss and activation of encoutners relative to the encounter's time.
Question: Is the application of stacks of both Spell Twisting and Abyss of Chaos upon each individual hit of an encounter power intended or not?
Can we please get away from damage increases as a substitute for true innovation when adding new powers and abilities to the CW? The **** class does too much damage as it is with ridiculous procs and offensive stat synergies. How about we look at other areas to improve the CW instead. Why not have feats and features that make the CW's attacks increase cooldown periods on enemy powers, or reduce enemy stamina/movement speeds. Why aren't there debuffs that attack regen, crit percentage and severity or deflection. Why Do you reserve these functions for half assed new top end gear?
I am so f***ing sick of CW's and their damage boosts. They don't need them, we can't even get the ones that are broken fixed. Is it honestly that difficult to come up with something other than "you now do 2/4/6/8/10% more damage"? Honestly? It seems to me nothing could be easier. Here I'll do one for you; Arcane Buffer: When you have Shield active and are struck in combat, your attacker suffers a 2/4/6/8/10% debuff to their crit and crit severity for 4 seconds. This ability does not stack with itself.
Or Siphoning Magics: Your Ray of Enfeeblement now increases cooldowns on its target by 5/10/15/20/25% during it's duration and enemies effected by chill suffer a .5/1.1.5/2/2.5% penalty to their deflection per stack of chill.
Or anything just no more damage.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
It has multiprocs on several CW ability like Icy Terrain on aoe or Coudult of Ice on single- where every tick of dmg give you stack. Basicly I can use CoI before it even ends or just hold left mouse and keep clicking tab q w e r (one sec cd and I can repeat it).
If you intended cw to have 1 sec cd on every skill then then it is not bug.
this is ridicolous i just tested it cant be wai.
abyss chaos is out of control too and doing way more damages than stated (10-12k sometimes even 18-24k). It procs after every tick of encounter damage (icy terrain and conduit of ice for example) and it auto proc with some dot enchants.
So my suggestion before a flat damage nerf is to incorporate that feedback, then let us test some more. Because right now, there's nothing really else to look at, until we get some response on these pretty significant issues from the devs.
Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain proc Abbys of Chaos on each individual damage tick. Here's a clip of an ACT log showing an encounter in the Drowned Shores against live mobs, NOT on test dummies. I was using the Zhetarim Warlock as my companion. You can clearly see 4 procs of Abyss of Chaos activate off a single casting of Conduit of Ice. You see the Conduit of Ice hit, then the Eldritch Blast (the companion's attack) and the Abyss of Chaos. The cycle repeats for the next 4 ticks. The same holds true for Icy Terrain.
So there is the potential for a CW stacking Icy Terrain and Conduit of Ice to stack Abyss of Chaos incredibly quick, resulting in substantially more damage that intended.
This thread has been cleaned and many posts edited to be proper format.
The Official Stickies are not for open discussions. They are not there to argue each other's feedback and opinions. Please present your own opinions of your own testing. Please refrain from posting your opinions or discussions on others feedback and opinions in the Official Stickies. If you wish to discuss something, please start a new thread or use an existing one that is not an official sticky.
You may ask questions, within reason, of the devs. Prefix such with "Question:" and without any color coding.
Again, read the 2nd post in each Official Sticky and stick to the format for feedback on the presented topics in the first post of the thread. Please do not reply to this moderator notice. Instead, contact us via Private Message to discuss forum moderation or the Rules. Thanks!
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Able to fire off skills that are encounters with basically no CD. Which is causing the skills that need an encounter use to fire off in rapid succession (abyss of chaos) due to this a miss conception of bugs in other skills are taking place. Its a combination of things. That of which I'm going to upload a frap's of me testing it (if i get time). With spell twisting and without spell twisting. Its not abyss that's proc'ing none stop its the fact that Spell Twisting is resetting the CDs of encounters. Because without a reset of the skill its self it will not proc none stop.... Abyss is not bugged. Its just being exploited...
It has no ICD and it resets the CD's on encounters almost as fast as you can cast them if your quick enough. This in turn meets the conditions needed for abyss to proc. So the procing over and over again of abyss is apparent. If there were an ICD on Spell Twisting it would be a start. Because no serious testing can be done with unlimited skill use.
Each "tick" of Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain adds a stack of Spell Twisting to the caster. For example, one cast of Steal Time will stack Spell Twisting 3 times.
BUG: Abyss of Chaos and Icy Terrain
Each damaging tick of Icy Terrain procs Abyss of Chaos. Log posted below show. Eldritch Blast is being casted about 1/sec by my Warlock pet to trigger Abyss of Chaos. Abyss is then immidiately reapplied by damage from the same cast of Icy Terrain. This log shows 9 procs of Abyss in roughly 12 seconds.
- one that reduces cool down on every encounter/daily/feat that has CD.
- reflects some damage to the attacker.
Suggested feats are terrible if they do not apply to the CW as well. Because many play solo a lot and in such case investing in these feats is just waste of EotS or Spell Storm slot. No sane CW will exchange for charity.
Here is a vid. for you to pass on to the devs about lightning triggering Abyss of Chaos. It causes this with other skills that depend on the use of encounters to active as well im sure. Also tested vorpal to make sure that it is and isolated occurance. And it is. It will not proc when using a vorpal enchant without others around. But lightning will. The fact that it does this when alone, means that its causing an abnormal amount of procs when in a group of people.
The enchant is acting like an encounter......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tju9vePfwPE
Feedback :
Some of the set bonus, feat and class feat use a distinction between spell that are single-target/AOE and if they are control spell are not. It will be even more important with Life Steal announced change (30% on AOE).
And the fact that some spell change from damage to control, from single-target to AOE, when slotted in Mastery don't help here.
I usually return to the forum to found what spell work with this feat or not. And some information are out-dated and/or revel to be difficult to test easily.
At 60 poins - Disintigrate
At 65 points - Imprisonment
And Abyss of Chaos tooltip don't show Piercing damage
Disintegrate is interesting:
I haven't the level to test them.
If 60 has 3 power, we can have more power at 65 & 70, like 2 or 3 more.
I can see At-will at level 65, one common and one for MoF/SS. And at 70, it could be one common daily and one daily + one encounter for MoF/SS.
You're right. It looks like they addressed some of the bugs in this build. Abyss no longer does piercing damage, which cut it's damage by about 50% give or take. Which is good. It's still powerful, and still has to be activated by not you, which is a fair trade off, I guess. It still activates on each hit of CoI and IT though. It really depends on how powerful they want this to be. If it's fixed to work only once per encounter cast, I think it puts it in a good spot.
Spell Twisting was also fixed. It only stacks once per encounter now.
Disintegrate is interesting. Probably going to need a lot of work, but it's cool to see CW's give one big nothing but damage single target encounter power.
Great job on Spell Twisting. I like how it performs now.
Feedback: Abyss of Chaos
Abyss is still far too strong. I think allowing it to only apply a stack on the initial damage tick would put it more in line.
Bug: Abyss of Chaos + Lightning Enchantment
This bug is still existent. If two or more targets are struck by an encounter power with a Lightning Enchantment the stacks will be applied immediately consumed and correspondingly damage caused. I could imagine that the lightning arc is erroneously flagged as "ally" and not "player" or something.
I tested disintegrate also and was getting 5k to 9k from tier4. So idk what to say maybe its bugged.
Then when I go to WoD it becomes -
So you have the weapon damage of a power level 70 item, but the health of a weak level 60. That's probably why people are getting one-shotted with this thing. The damage on my disintegrate is about 150k :eek:
I think the real bug is that Cryptic's formula for level scaling is all wonky.
The min damage on disintegrate for me is 35k in the description and I have never hit for that much, so something is obviously wrong.
If other classes are seeing the same type of effect in different zones then it must be the scaling.
Oh yeah, far more. Definitely needs to be toned down.
Currently, you can get the endcap for one path & still put 5 points into the new feats from another.
As the new feats seem to be intended to have some potency to them (though I doubt the broken potency they currently have), would it not make more sense to ensure someone can't get them from two paths along with an endcap?