Thats a long post. But not true is one aspect. You are obviously (anti)TR and that's a major difference. It makes me wonder how people will do much to destroy other class even make that class just to cry that from that class perspective it is op as well.
Every time I read one of your posts, I get a headache. Your writing is so poor, I am never sure exactly what you are saying. Let me be clear:
I am very pro TR ... I love playing a TR and I have had that character as my main for over a year and a half.
More so than being pro TR ... I am pro "good game play" ... that requires balance.
In previous mods, there was very little balance due to one class being too strong.
It's very clear that the TR is in the same boat this time in PVP.
I do not advocate a big nerf ... it merely needs some adjustment to bring the game into balance.
I am not sure if there will ever be balance until Cryptic dual designs ... different degrees of effectiveness for powers in PVE and in PVP.
Here is mine: A TR pug like 9k GS TR can kill a 16k GS of any class that is the truth... because of first strike...
here is the tricky part: I'm almost 20k TR when i fought 18k up class except SW Its very hard to kill them unless they are dumb playing their toon. My experience when fighting someone with almost equal GS I was having a hard time defeating them. for example I cannot defeat HR with insane healing and CC skill Its like you have a DC in your team in fact you don't need a DC in your team when you have this kind of HR in your team because he heal himself and his team faster than the DC. A GWF with longer range roar and come and get it can kill me easily and if I dodge he will just sprint and locked target me then repeat the cycle. Shocking execution when your health drops even 40 percent you are dead the only class can dodge it is Cw and HR (even the fox cunning can avoid it and dodge. I have played 3 paragon, like what the other said the most effective paragon is exec. sab you can kill some one but they will kill you as well. scound you cant easily kill it but you cant kill them either.
I agree with this, but you better give the Scoundrel tree something for that control loss, because you just killed the class. Scoundrels are sitting ducks. I'm more for having dazes respect defensive mechanisms. As long as ALL attacks across all classes respect defensive mechanisms.
Scoundrel with their 70%+ deflect rate and 75-85% deflect severity, insane run speed and 4 consecutive and longest in game dodges is a sitting duck? Unbelievable.
70% deflection? Hahahahahah! Even if every Scoundrel was running around with that kind of deflection, without the control they are toast. You do realize how many attacks ignore deflection right? Probably not.
how many attacks ignore deflection please tell me. last i remember rogues have most of the things that ignore deflection.
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited January 2015
All these tactics and talks about combos only comes into place IF you can survive the initial attack...
Last night I was in a game fighting 2 TR / 2 CW (forgot who was their last member). Both TRs were capable of one shotting me (I am 25K GWF with 43.5k HP, 10.8k Power) both TRs were critting me between 55k~76k in ONE HIT (yes, I thought I saw the number wrong, so I went back to combat log, it was 76K Cri SE, I wonder how many can survive this hit...) But no I am not making further complains cus by now all the non-TRs agreed TR is just way too bugged, and no we didn't lose the game, we too had two strong CW and 2 TRs, we went from 200 : 400 to eventually beat them 1000 vs 800lish, great fight
Guess what, the 2 seconds visibility nerf and the talk about how fragile they are makes no difference if you get one shotted on first hit? The thing I found funny is, if you somehow survive the first hit from less geared TR, you will soon have the luxury of watching them activate SE to finish you instead of being finished unknowingly
Scoundrel with their 70%+ deflect rate and 75-85% deflect severity, insane run speed and 4 consecutive and longest in game dodges is a sitting duck? Unbelievable.
Sir, I know it sounds redundant, but the only things us Scoundrel TRs can really recommend at this point would be simply "try your own and see if that's possible." It is usually the best way to deal with misconceptions, sir.
In my case I have both my DEX and CHA stats above 20, sir, and have still managed to be able to reach 40k HP despite initially low CON stats. As you may know, to do this it takes a lot of investment in rad enchants for HP boosts in all of the defense-slots for my gear. (It's now considered generally better to invest in both DEX and CHA if you want deflection , because it provides a fixed increase in deflect percentage, unlike how silvery enchants in defense slots go through diminishing returns.) At this point my deflection was at 39%, sir.
Recently, I've decided to try and drop a bit of HP and invest in more deflect, which brought me down to 38k HP / 45% deflection. Of course, it has a lot to do with how I didn't invest the 3 points for extra deflection, as well as not being a halfling, or a MI paragon, sir.
So if I were all of those, I would be able to add in and extra 7%, and get my deflection up to 52%. This is about how high we can go under normal circumstances, sir.
I can get it up higher, but at that point my HP/offense starts creeping lower than the level of competency I desire, and I would basically slowly turn into a PvE build. If I want to fight people at 20k GS and above range, I need that much HP. Even 38k is low, and I'm considering to go back to 40k and dump 3% or more deflection, sir.
If you are referring to conditional fluctuations in deflection due to special feats, it is simply situational. That would be the same thing as assuming a GWF will always have the same amount of DR as when he is in Unstoppable+Sprinting -- which is also not true, sir, as you obviously know. Or, if it is in reference to how certain group/level of PvP players tend to drink down all those potions to augment their stats, then you know as well as I do this applies to all classes in the same manner, sir.
In either case, the way you are treating the TRs is seriously unfair, and biased, sir.
- SE does ignore deflection
- Piercing Damage feats in Saboteur (while in stealth) or Executioner (stacks for 6 seconds and then procs) tree
About the 70% deflection - sounds pretty interesting. I would really like so see a Scoundrel build that can nearly reach this number.
I didn't say scoundrels can have 70% deflection and even that isn't so impossible as they gain more deflection chance when their hp drops below a certain threshold. But i am not sure if they have reached 70% deflection chance in pvp without pots and food.
I didn't say scoundrels can have 70% deflection and even that isn't so impossible as they gain more deflection chance when their hp drops below a certain threshold. But i am not sure if they have reached 70% deflection chance in pvp without pots and food.
As I've explained in my own post above, Scoundrel TRs regardless of MI or WK, usually hold around 50% deflection at maximum, and this applies to 19~20k GS ranges, sir.
We have two feats that increase deflection by 10%, so "theoretically" a 70% can be reached for very brief moments, but as I've also contended in another post, sir, that's a result of people just reviewing tool-tips and making up "theoretical maximums" in their imagination without considering the actual conditions of real combat. Since many of such have never played Scoundrel build TRs, I don't blame them for just assuming things by reading tool-tips, but like all things the reality is quite different, sir.
...
I used to take both feats and invest full 5/5 faithfully.. it felt so nice to see my deflection having +10% at certain moments.. but after I realized that those are meaningless numbers that don't ever manifest in the moments I really needed it, I just dumped it, sir. A 10% increase when you ENTER stealth is pretty much useless considering how us Scoundrels operate, and a good TR would make sure to avoid falling under 30% HP in the first place, sir.
So what happened for me, sir, is that I don't use any of those. I just make by with my natural deflection rate.
I can dare guarantee, sir, that most of the good Scoundrel TRs you meet in a fight would be at 40~50% range.
Please consider sir, that a 40~50% deflection chance is achieved by other classes as well, and often even more easily, with less investment, than us TRs, sir.
For instance, my fresh-lv60 HR is currently at 41% without even thinking about it, sir.
Halfling +3%
Lucky skirmisher heroic feat +3%
Deflection stat +15-20%
Skillful infiltration feature +3%
Roll with the punches feat +2.5%
CHA 16+6+1(campfire buff)+1(+1 to all stats potion)-10 => +14%
DEX 16+6+2+1+1-10 => +16%
CHA/DEX belt +4%
*Survivor feat at 30% hp +10%
*Mocking gesture feat when entering stealth +10%
3+3+15~20+3+2.5+14+16+4=60.5%~65.5% without above feats active, 80.5%-85.5% with. So please... :rolleyes:
Halfling +3%
Lucky skirmisher heroic feat +3%
Deflection stat +15-20%
Skillful infiltration feature +3%
Roll with the punches feat +2.5%
CHA 16+6+1(campfire buff)+1(+1 to all stats potion)-10 => +14%
DEX 16+6+2+1+1-10 => +16%
CHA/DEX belt +4%
*Survivor feat at 30% hp +10%
*Mocking gesture feat when entering stealth +10%
3+3+15~20+3+2.5+14+16+4=60.5%~65.5% without above feats active, 80.5%-85.5% with. So please... :rolleyes:
Sir, I bid you please, "try and see".
What you are doing here is exactly as what I have mentioned before. You're taking in theoretical maximums and then treating it as the stand-alone reality by which you judge and criticize us Scoundrel TRs, sir, when as a matter of fact, no Scoundrel in game currently runs any typical PvP match with the amount of deflection as you claim.
Please judge us by the reality of what us Scoundrels are, sir, instead of pinning on us a figment of your imagination and then blaming us for bogus stats.
With all due respect, sir, Scoundrels are in the 40~50% range on default. If you wish to simply dismiss what us Scoundrel TRs are telling you, then I sincerely hope at least other people would understand that we are not lying here.
The TRs that run around with 80% deflection, sir, only exist in your mind.
I agree with this, but you better give the Scoundrel tree something for that control loss, because you just killed the class. Scoundrels are sitting ducks. I'm more for having dazes respect defensive mechanisms. As long as ALL attacks across all classes respect defensive mechanisms.
This^. I've said it before ( and ppl really need to shut up and just playtest before posting opinions). The Scoundrel is daze based. Damage prevents him from re-stealthing unless shadow strike is slotted (WKs get other options as well), so he has to stay and fight/die or run. His own damage is quite low once First Strike is spent so again he gets a boost if the target is under cc. On cc immune targets the Scoundrel can lose so fast it aint even funny. When I first hit 60 and did some dailies in WoD that alchemist boss actually killed me once. So lets summarize, the Scound needs cc in order to:
- do damage
- avoid damage
He already has a very high chance to lose vs cc immunity. So once the devs reduce the daze effectiveness, something else needs to be boosted or this tree goes away and the whole TR rebalancing they did would be for nothing.
Now, personally I dont care, since sooner ot later I'll just be back to playing my 23k GWF who is my only true main but is currently maxed out. Nothing to do with him sept for Jewelcrafting. The rogues tho will be facing changes, I just hope they dont get destroyed cause playing one has been fun for me and after all, fun is what this game should be.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Scoundrel with their 70%+ deflect rate and 75-85% deflect severity, insane run speed and 4 consecutive and longest in game dodges is a sitting duck? Unbelievable.
I made my Scoundrel with deflect in mind. He has a legendary Dex belt, high deflect stat and he has taken every possible +deflect% feat along with +deflect% passive. The end result is 52% in PVP.
Regardless if it is due to lack of information or just blind hate, exxageration always makes you lose credibility.
PS: To get that deflect while being a 16.6 Scoundrel I sacrifice HP. Mine is at ~26K
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This^. I've said it before ( and ppl really need to shut up and just playtest before posting opinions). The Scoundrel is daze based. Damage prevents him from re-stealthing unless shadow strike is slotted (WKs get other options as well), so he has to stay and fight/die or run. His own damage is quite low once First Strike is spent so again he gets a boost if the target is under cc. On cc immune targets the Scoundrel can lose so fast it aint even funny. When I first hit 60 and did some dailies in WoD that alchemist boss actually killed me once. So lets summarize, the Scound needs cc in order to:
- do damage
- avoid damage
He already has a very high chance to lose vs cc immunity. So once the devs reduce the daze effectiveness, something else needs to be boosted or this tree goes away and the whole TR rebalancing they did would be for nothing.
Now, personally I dont care, since sooner ot later I'll just be back to playing my 23k GWF who is my only true main but is currently maxed out. Nothing to do with him sept for Jewelcrafting. The rogues tho will be facing changes, I just hope they dont get destroyed cause playing one has been fun for me and after all, fun is what this game should be.
I'm sorry but this is just <expletive removed>. I just can't believe how far people go sometimes. Even as a new kid around here and this is out of touch with reality.
Low damage after first strike? please... maybe if your 10k GS is targeting a 20k GS player. There are a bunch of videos showing TR's low damage against a better geared people. Please just don't go there.
How fast do your dailies fill up again?
CC immunity? To my knowledge that would be a time limited GWF and a turtle GF. And that's not even the reason why it's harder for you to kill them, it's that big HP pool where they can take the first hit and still have enough to fight you. You would have no problem with cc immunity if you'd just one shot
I'm sorry but this is just <expletive removed> I just can't believe how far people go sometimes. Even as a new kid around here and this is out of touch with reality.
Low damage after first strike? please... maybe if your 10k GS is targeting a 20k GS player. There are a bunch of videos showing TR's low damage against a better geared people. Please just don't go there.
How fast do your dailies fill up again?
CC immunity? To my knowledge that would be a time limited GWF and a turtle GF. And that's not even the reason why it's harder for you to kill them, it's that big HP pool where they can take the first hit and still have enough to fight you. You would have no problem with cc immunity if you'd just one shot
Sir, I beg you, please calm down.
The above line of discussions were specifically about the "Scoundrel" build of the TRs, sir, and when it comes to us Scoundrels, it is actually true that we can't hit that hard. We're nothing like how Executioners can land 40k Lashing Blades, sir. A typical Scoundrel load-up has Dazing Strike as his hardest hitting weapon, and from stealth my DS hits for maybe 6~7k against GF/GWFs, 8k-ish against HRs, and lower than 5k against tab-shielded CWs. (remember, this is CRIT! damage I'm talking about, sir)
Us Scoundrels don't rely on "one big hit", sir. We rely on "one big opportunity" TRs aren't all the same, sir. Please remember that.
What you are doing here is exactly as what I have mentioned before. You're taking in theoretical maximums and then treating it as the stand-alone reality by which you judge and criticize us Scoundrel TRs, sir, when as a matter of fact, no Scoundrel in game currently runs any typical PvP match with the amount of deflection as you claim.
Please judge us by the reality of what us Scoundrels are, sir, instead of pinning on us a figment of your imagination and then blaming us for bogus stats.
With all due respect, sir, Scoundrels are in the 40~50% range on default. If you wish to simply dismiss what us Scoundrel TRs are telling you, then I sincerely hope at least other people would understand that we are not lying here.
The TRs that run around with 80% deflection, sir, only exist in your mind.
All I did is show you that it's more than possible to have more than 70% deflect. That was in reply to this morenthar guy who claimed that scoundrel would be dead if not for their infinite dazes. Guess what, a TR with 50% deflect already tanks better than a sentinel GWF, for example.
And yes, you do have bogus stats. You don't need to stack crit stat at all due to stealth, stacking armor penetration is also pointless if you have skills that pierce all defenses, recovery is unnecessary due to knife's edge feat, and the deflect severity that TRs have is way too much with all the boosts to dodge and stealth you guys received. When a TR deflects a CC power they don't even flinch anymore. And do you honestly believe that is fine and I'm just imagining things?
All I did is show you that it's more than possible to have more than 70% deflect. That was in reply to this morenthar guy who claimed that scoundrel would be dead if not for their infinite dazes. Guess what, a TR with 50% deflect already tanks better than a sentinel GWF, for example.
And yes, you do have bogus stats. You don't need to stack crit stat at all due to stealth, stacking armor penetration is also pointless if you have skills that pierce all defenses, recovery is unnecessary due to knife's edge feat, and the deflect severity that TRs have is way too much with all the boosts to dodge and stealth you guys received. When a TR deflects a CC power they don't even flinch anymore. And do you honestly believe that is fine and I'm just imagining things?
Maybe just listen, and go try for yourself. 50%+ base deflect with extra severity from pot, 40k hp and you got about 3 seconds to either daze a CW or go stealth, or you are dead.
Also I don't really get 2nd part of your post. First you talk about super high deflect which only Scoundrels have, and then you bring crit from stealth which scoundrels doesn't benefit from much since were 80-90% time out of stealth. Later you bring piercing damage (sabo, exe only) and then at the end you mention Sabo feat.
Do realize finally that no one TR can use ALL these things
Seems like you do seriously lack in skill, my alt TR (13k) kills with no effort 5-8k higher gs player in one way or another:
-Shocking Execution after dazed my opponent (100% to hit the target)
-stealth --> daze --> DF --> ITC --> back to stealth --> same rotation again and again until the target is dead.
My opinion to the whole thread is: Executioners and Saboteurs are just fine, when followed things done.
-fix SoD 2x proccing with DoT-enchants
-fix Shadow opportunity
-Shocking Execution
-Bloodbath + Knife's Edge
And Scoundrels could be fixed as well:
-the capstone which causes a daze need to be toned down on players or recharge speed upped. Or introduce an immunity after being dazed and leave the capstone how it is.
OK show me a video that you can kill them more than they kill you with your 13k TR vs 21k GS HR and GWF.
Maybe just listen, and go try for yourself. 50%+ base deflect with extra severity from pot, 40k hp and you got about 3 seconds to either daze a CW or go stealth, or you are dead.
Also I don't really get 2nd part of your post. First you talk about super high deflect which only Scoundrels have, and then you bring crit from stealth which scoundrels doesn't benefit from much since were 80-90% time out of stealth. Later you bring piercing damage (sabo, exe only) and then at the end you mention Sabo feat.
Do realize finally that no one TR can use ALL these things
Maybe you try playing any other class where failing/being unable to dodge TR's initial attack means kaput? Funny that you mention CW whose all CC powers you can easily deflect and not even flinch.
And hey, this is not a topic dedicated solely to Scoundrels. I'm free to speak about any path I choose. Got a problem?
As a side note, knife's edge is tier 2 feat. You can use that with any build. So is Shocking Execution as long as you're MI. And scoundrels being 80-90% outside stealth is a steaming bull****.
Comments
Every time I read one of your posts, I get a headache. Your writing is so poor, I am never sure exactly what you are saying. Let me be clear:
I am very pro TR ... I love playing a TR and I have had that character as my main for over a year and a half.
More so than being pro TR ... I am pro "good game play" ... that requires balance.
In previous mods, there was very little balance due to one class being too strong.
It's very clear that the TR is in the same boat this time in PVP.
I do not advocate a big nerf ... it merely needs some adjustment to bring the game into balance.
I am not sure if there will ever be balance until Cryptic dual designs ... different degrees of effectiveness for powers in PVE and in PVP.
here is the tricky part: I'm almost 20k TR when i fought 18k up class except SW Its very hard to kill them unless they are dumb playing their toon. My experience when fighting someone with almost equal GS I was having a hard time defeating them. for example I cannot defeat HR with insane healing and CC skill Its like you have a DC in your team in fact you don't need a DC in your team when you have this kind of HR in your team because he heal himself and his team faster than the DC. A GWF with longer range roar and come and get it can kill me easily and if I dodge he will just sprint and locked target me then repeat the cycle. Shocking execution when your health drops even 40 percent you are dead the only class can dodge it is Cw and HR (even the fox cunning can avoid it and dodge. I have played 3 paragon, like what the other said the most effective paragon is exec. sab you can kill some one but they will kill you as well. scound you cant easily kill it but you cant kill them either.
You aren't alone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd8SUWztEaY
Dont need any word, just look
Scoundrel with their 70%+ deflect rate and 75-85% deflect severity, insane run speed and 4 consecutive and longest in game dodges is a sitting duck? Unbelievable.
Last night I was in a game fighting 2 TR / 2 CW (forgot who was their last member). Both TRs were capable of one shotting me (I am 25K GWF with 43.5k HP, 10.8k Power) both TRs were critting me between 55k~76k in ONE HIT (yes, I thought I saw the number wrong, so I went back to combat log, it was 76K Cri SE, I wonder how many can survive this hit...) But no I am not making further complains cus by now all the non-TRs agreed TR is just way too bugged, and no we didn't lose the game, we too had two strong CW and 2 TRs, we went from 200 : 400 to eventually beat them 1000 vs 800lish, great fight
Guess what, the 2 seconds visibility nerf and the talk about how fragile they are makes no difference if you get one shotted on first hit? The thing I found funny is, if you somehow survive the first hit from less geared TR, you will soon have the luxury of watching them activate SE to finish you instead of being finished unknowingly
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
- SE does ignore deflection
- Piercing Damage feats in Saboteur (while in stealth) or Executioner (stacks for 6 seconds and then procs) tree
About the 70% deflection - sounds pretty interesting. I would really like so see a Scoundrel build that can nearly reach this number.
We are always looking for new models --- Borderline Fashiondolls ---
Sir, I know it sounds redundant, but the only things us Scoundrel TRs can really recommend at this point would be simply "try your own and see if that's possible." It is usually the best way to deal with misconceptions, sir.
In my case I have both my DEX and CHA stats above 20, sir, and have still managed to be able to reach 40k HP despite initially low CON stats. As you may know, to do this it takes a lot of investment in rad enchants for HP boosts in all of the defense-slots for my gear. (It's now considered generally better to invest in both DEX and CHA if you want deflection , because it provides a fixed increase in deflect percentage, unlike how silvery enchants in defense slots go through diminishing returns.) At this point my deflection was at 39%, sir.
Recently, I've decided to try and drop a bit of HP and invest in more deflect, which brought me down to 38k HP / 45% deflection. Of course, it has a lot to do with how I didn't invest the 3 points for extra deflection, as well as not being a halfling, or a MI paragon, sir.
So if I were all of those, I would be able to add in and extra 7%, and get my deflection up to 52%. This is about how high we can go under normal circumstances, sir.
I can get it up higher, but at that point my HP/offense starts creeping lower than the level of competency I desire, and I would basically slowly turn into a PvE build. If I want to fight people at 20k GS and above range, I need that much HP. Even 38k is low, and I'm considering to go back to 40k and dump 3% or more deflection, sir.
If you are referring to conditional fluctuations in deflection due to special feats, it is simply situational. That would be the same thing as assuming a GWF will always have the same amount of DR as when he is in Unstoppable+Sprinting -- which is also not true, sir, as you obviously know. Or, if it is in reference to how certain group/level of PvP players tend to drink down all those potions to augment their stats, then you know as well as I do this applies to all classes in the same manner, sir.
In either case, the way you are treating the TRs is seriously unfair, and biased, sir.
I didn't say scoundrels can have 70% deflection and even that isn't so impossible as they gain more deflection chance when their hp drops below a certain threshold. But i am not sure if they have reached 70% deflection chance in pvp without pots and food.
As I've explained in my own post above, Scoundrel TRs regardless of MI or WK, usually hold around 50% deflection at maximum, and this applies to 19~20k GS ranges, sir.
We have two feats that increase deflection by 10%, so "theoretically" a 70% can be reached for very brief moments, but as I've also contended in another post, sir, that's a result of people just reviewing tool-tips and making up "theoretical maximums" in their imagination without considering the actual conditions of real combat. Since many of such have never played Scoundrel build TRs, I don't blame them for just assuming things by reading tool-tips, but like all things the reality is quite different, sir.
...
I used to take both feats and invest full 5/5 faithfully.. it felt so nice to see my deflection having +10% at certain moments.. but after I realized that those are meaningless numbers that don't ever manifest in the moments I really needed it, I just dumped it, sir. A 10% increase when you ENTER stealth is pretty much useless considering how us Scoundrels operate, and a good TR would make sure to avoid falling under 30% HP in the first place, sir.
So what happened for me, sir, is that I don't use any of those. I just make by with my natural deflection rate.
I can dare guarantee, sir, that most of the good Scoundrel TRs you meet in a fight would be at 40~50% range.
Please consider sir, that a 40~50% deflection chance is achieved by other classes as well, and often even more easily, with less investment, than us TRs, sir.
For instance, my fresh-lv60 HR is currently at 41% without even thinking about it, sir.
Lucky skirmisher heroic feat +3%
Deflection stat +15-20%
Skillful infiltration feature +3%
Roll with the punches feat +2.5%
CHA 16+6+1(campfire buff)+1(+1 to all stats potion)-10 => +14%
DEX 16+6+2+1+1-10 => +16%
CHA/DEX belt +4%
*Survivor feat at 30% hp +10%
*Mocking gesture feat when entering stealth +10%
3+3+15~20+3+2.5+14+16+4=60.5%~65.5% without above feats active, 80.5%-85.5% with. So please... :rolleyes:
Sir, I bid you please, "try and see".
What you are doing here is exactly as what I have mentioned before. You're taking in theoretical maximums and then treating it as the stand-alone reality by which you judge and criticize us Scoundrel TRs, sir, when as a matter of fact, no Scoundrel in game currently runs any typical PvP match with the amount of deflection as you claim.
Please judge us by the reality of what us Scoundrels are, sir, instead of pinning on us a figment of your imagination and then blaming us for bogus stats.
With all due respect, sir, Scoundrels are in the 40~50% range on default. If you wish to simply dismiss what us Scoundrel TRs are telling you, then I sincerely hope at least other people would understand that we are not lying here.
The TRs that run around with 80% deflection, sir, only exist in your mind.
This^. I've said it before ( and ppl really need to shut up and just playtest before posting opinions). The Scoundrel is daze based. Damage prevents him from re-stealthing unless shadow strike is slotted (WKs get other options as well), so he has to stay and fight/die or run. His own damage is quite low once First Strike is spent so again he gets a boost if the target is under cc. On cc immune targets the Scoundrel can lose so fast it aint even funny. When I first hit 60 and did some dailies in WoD that alchemist boss actually killed me once. So lets summarize, the Scound needs cc in order to:
- do damage
- avoid damage
He already has a very high chance to lose vs cc immunity. So once the devs reduce the daze effectiveness, something else needs to be boosted or this tree goes away and the whole TR rebalancing they did would be for nothing.
Now, personally I dont care, since sooner ot later I'll just be back to playing my 23k GWF who is my only true main but is currently maxed out. Nothing to do with him sept for Jewelcrafting. The rogues tho will be facing changes, I just hope they dont get destroyed cause playing one has been fun for me and after all, fun is what this game should be.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I made my Scoundrel with deflect in mind. He has a legendary Dex belt, high deflect stat and he has taken every possible +deflect% feat along with +deflect% passive. The end result is 52% in PVP.
Regardless if it is due to lack of information or just blind hate, exxageration always makes you lose credibility.
PS: To get that deflect while being a 16.6 Scoundrel I sacrifice HP. Mine is at ~26K
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I'm sorry but this is just <expletive removed>. I just can't believe how far people go sometimes. Even as a new kid around here and this is out of touch with reality.
Low damage after first strike? please... maybe if your 10k GS is targeting a 20k GS player. There are a bunch of videos showing TR's low damage against a better geared people. Please just don't go there.
How fast do your dailies fill up again?
CC immunity? To my knowledge that would be a time limited GWF and a turtle GF. And that's not even the reason why it's harder for you to kill them, it's that big HP pool where they can take the first hit and still have enough to fight you. You would have no problem with cc immunity if you'd just one shot
Sir, I beg you, please calm down.
The above line of discussions were specifically about the "Scoundrel" build of the TRs, sir, and when it comes to us Scoundrels, it is actually true that we can't hit that hard. We're nothing like how Executioners can land 40k Lashing Blades, sir. A typical Scoundrel load-up has Dazing Strike as his hardest hitting weapon, and from stealth my DS hits for maybe 6~7k against GF/GWFs, 8k-ish against HRs, and lower than 5k against tab-shielded CWs. (remember, this is CRIT! damage I'm talking about, sir)
Us Scoundrels don't rely on "one big hit", sir. We rely on "one big opportunity" TRs aren't all the same, sir. Please remember that.
All I did is show you that it's more than possible to have more than 70% deflect. That was in reply to this morenthar guy who claimed that scoundrel would be dead if not for their infinite dazes. Guess what, a TR with 50% deflect already tanks better than a sentinel GWF, for example.
And yes, you do have bogus stats. You don't need to stack crit stat at all due to stealth, stacking armor penetration is also pointless if you have skills that pierce all defenses, recovery is unnecessary due to knife's edge feat, and the deflect severity that TRs have is way too much with all the boosts to dodge and stealth you guys received. When a TR deflects a CC power they don't even flinch anymore. And do you honestly believe that is fine and I'm just imagining things?
Maybe just listen, and go try for yourself. 50%+ base deflect with extra severity from pot, 40k hp and you got about 3 seconds to either daze a CW or go stealth, or you are dead.
Also I don't really get 2nd part of your post. First you talk about super high deflect which only Scoundrels have, and then you bring crit from stealth which scoundrels doesn't benefit from much since were 80-90% time out of stealth. Later you bring piercing damage (sabo, exe only) and then at the end you mention Sabo feat.
Do realize finally that no one TR can use ALL these things
OK show me a video that you can kill them more than they kill you with your 13k TR vs 21k GS HR and GWF.
Maybe you try playing any other class where failing/being unable to dodge TR's initial attack means kaput? Funny that you mention CW whose all CC powers you can easily deflect and not even flinch.
And hey, this is not a topic dedicated solely to Scoundrels. I'm free to speak about any path I choose. Got a problem?
As a side note, knife's edge is tier 2 feat. You can use that with any build. So is Shocking Execution as long as you're MI. And scoundrels being 80-90% outside stealth is a steaming bull****.
Orly, and you and him are not? Pathetic losers advocating for OP abilities.