icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited January 2015
All these tactics and talks about combos only comes into place IF you can survive the initial attack...
Last night I was in a game fighting 2 TR / 2 CW (forgot who was their last member). Both TRs were capable of one shotting me (I am 25K GWF with 43.5k HP, 10.8k Power) both TRs were critting me between 55k~76k in ONE HIT (yes, I thought I saw the number wrong, so I went back to combat log, it was 76K Cri SE, I wonder how many can survive this hit...) But no I am not making further complains cus by now all the non-TRs agreed TR is just way too bugged, and no we didn't lose the game, we too had two strong CW and 2 TRs, we went from 200 : 400 to eventually beat them 1000 vs 800lish, great fight
Guess what, the 2 seconds visibility nerf and the talk about how fragile they are makes no difference if you get one shotted on first hit? The thing I found funny is, if you somehow survive the first hit from less geared TR, you will soon have the luxury of watching them activate SE to finish you instead of being finished unknowingly
Scoundrel with their 70%+ deflect rate and 75-85% deflect severity, insane run speed and 4 consecutive and longest in game dodges is a sitting duck? Unbelievable.
Sir, I know it sounds redundant, but the only things us Scoundrel TRs can really recommend at this point would be simply "try your own and see if that's possible." It is usually the best way to deal with misconceptions, sir.
In my case I have both my DEX and CHA stats above 20, sir, and have still managed to be able to reach 40k HP despite initially low CON stats. As you may know, to do this it takes a lot of investment in rad enchants for HP boosts in all of the defense-slots for my gear. (It's now considered generally better to invest in both DEX and CHA if you want deflection , because it provides a fixed increase in deflect percentage, unlike how silvery enchants in defense slots go through diminishing returns.) At this point my deflection was at 39%, sir.
Recently, I've decided to try and drop a bit of HP and invest in more deflect, which brought me down to 38k HP / 45% deflection. Of course, it has a lot to do with how I didn't invest the 3 points for extra deflection, as well as not being a halfling, or a MI paragon, sir.
So if I were all of those, I would be able to add in and extra 7%, and get my deflection up to 52%. This is about how high we can go under normal circumstances, sir.
I can get it up higher, but at that point my HP/offense starts creeping lower than the level of competency I desire, and I would basically slowly turn into a PvE build. If I want to fight people at 20k GS and above range, I need that much HP. Even 38k is low, and I'm considering to go back to 40k and dump 3% or more deflection, sir.
If you are referring to conditional fluctuations in deflection due to special feats, it is simply situational. That would be the same thing as assuming a GWF will always have the same amount of DR as when he is in Unstoppable+Sprinting -- which is also not true, sir, as you obviously know. Or, if it is in reference to how certain group/level of PvP players tend to drink down all those potions to augment their stats, then you know as well as I do this applies to all classes in the same manner, sir.
In either case, the way you are treating the TRs is seriously unfair, and biased, sir.
- SE does ignore deflection
- Piercing Damage feats in Saboteur (while in stealth) or Executioner (stacks for 6 seconds and then procs) tree
About the 70% deflection - sounds pretty interesting. I would really like so see a Scoundrel build that can nearly reach this number.
I didn't say scoundrels can have 70% deflection and even that isn't so impossible as they gain more deflection chance when their hp drops below a certain threshold. But i am not sure if they have reached 70% deflection chance in pvp without pots and food.
I didn't say scoundrels can have 70% deflection and even that isn't so impossible as they gain more deflection chance when their hp drops below a certain threshold. But i am not sure if they have reached 70% deflection chance in pvp without pots and food.
As I've explained in my own post above, Scoundrel TRs regardless of MI or WK, usually hold around 50% deflection at maximum, and this applies to 19~20k GS ranges, sir.
We have two feats that increase deflection by 10%, so "theoretically" a 70% can be reached for very brief moments, but as I've also contended in another post, sir, that's a result of people just reviewing tool-tips and making up "theoretical maximums" in their imagination without considering the actual conditions of real combat. Since many of such have never played Scoundrel build TRs, I don't blame them for just assuming things by reading tool-tips, but like all things the reality is quite different, sir.
...
I used to take both feats and invest full 5/5 faithfully.. it felt so nice to see my deflection having +10% at certain moments.. but after I realized that those are meaningless numbers that don't ever manifest in the moments I really needed it, I just dumped it, sir. A 10% increase when you ENTER stealth is pretty much useless considering how us Scoundrels operate, and a good TR would make sure to avoid falling under 30% HP in the first place, sir.
So what happened for me, sir, is that I don't use any of those. I just make by with my natural deflection rate.
I can dare guarantee, sir, that most of the good Scoundrel TRs you meet in a fight would be at 40~50% range.
Please consider sir, that a 40~50% deflection chance is achieved by other classes as well, and often even more easily, with less investment, than us TRs, sir.
For instance, my fresh-lv60 HR is currently at 41% without even thinking about it, sir.
Halfling +3%
Lucky skirmisher heroic feat +3%
Deflection stat +15-20%
Skillful infiltration feature +3%
Roll with the punches feat +2.5%
CHA 16+6+1(campfire buff)+1(+1 to all stats potion)-10 => +14%
DEX 16+6+2+1+1-10 => +16%
CHA/DEX belt +4%
*Survivor feat at 30% hp +10%
*Mocking gesture feat when entering stealth +10%
3+3+15~20+3+2.5+14+16+4=60.5%~65.5% without above feats active, 80.5%-85.5% with. So please... :rolleyes:
Halfling +3%
Lucky skirmisher heroic feat +3%
Deflection stat +15-20%
Skillful infiltration feature +3%
Roll with the punches feat +2.5%
CHA 16+6+1(campfire buff)+1(+1 to all stats potion)-10 => +14%
DEX 16+6+2+1+1-10 => +16%
CHA/DEX belt +4%
*Survivor feat at 30% hp +10%
*Mocking gesture feat when entering stealth +10%
3+3+15~20+3+2.5+14+16+4=60.5%~65.5% without above feats active, 80.5%-85.5% with. So please... :rolleyes:
Sir, I bid you please, "try and see".
What you are doing here is exactly as what I have mentioned before. You're taking in theoretical maximums and then treating it as the stand-alone reality by which you judge and criticize us Scoundrel TRs, sir, when as a matter of fact, no Scoundrel in game currently runs any typical PvP match with the amount of deflection as you claim.
Please judge us by the reality of what us Scoundrels are, sir, instead of pinning on us a figment of your imagination and then blaming us for bogus stats.
With all due respect, sir, Scoundrels are in the 40~50% range on default. If you wish to simply dismiss what us Scoundrel TRs are telling you, then I sincerely hope at least other people would understand that we are not lying here.
The TRs that run around with 80% deflection, sir, only exist in your mind.
I agree with this, but you better give the Scoundrel tree something for that control loss, because you just killed the class. Scoundrels are sitting ducks. I'm more for having dazes respect defensive mechanisms. As long as ALL attacks across all classes respect defensive mechanisms.
This^. I've said it before ( and ppl really need to shut up and just playtest before posting opinions). The Scoundrel is daze based. Damage prevents him from re-stealthing unless shadow strike is slotted (WKs get other options as well), so he has to stay and fight/die or run. His own damage is quite low once First Strike is spent so again he gets a boost if the target is under cc. On cc immune targets the Scoundrel can lose so fast it aint even funny. When I first hit 60 and did some dailies in WoD that alchemist boss actually killed me once. So lets summarize, the Scound needs cc in order to:
- do damage
- avoid damage
He already has a very high chance to lose vs cc immunity. So once the devs reduce the daze effectiveness, something else needs to be boosted or this tree goes away and the whole TR rebalancing they did would be for nothing.
Now, personally I dont care, since sooner ot later I'll just be back to playing my 23k GWF who is my only true main but is currently maxed out. Nothing to do with him sept for Jewelcrafting. The rogues tho will be facing changes, I just hope they dont get destroyed cause playing one has been fun for me and after all, fun is what this game should be.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Scoundrel with their 70%+ deflect rate and 75-85% deflect severity, insane run speed and 4 consecutive and longest in game dodges is a sitting duck? Unbelievable.
I made my Scoundrel with deflect in mind. He has a legendary Dex belt, high deflect stat and he has taken every possible +deflect% feat along with +deflect% passive. The end result is 52% in PVP.
Regardless if it is due to lack of information or just blind hate, exxageration always makes you lose credibility.
PS: To get that deflect while being a 16.6 Scoundrel I sacrifice HP. Mine is at ~26K
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This^. I've said it before ( and ppl really need to shut up and just playtest before posting opinions). The Scoundrel is daze based. Damage prevents him from re-stealthing unless shadow strike is slotted (WKs get other options as well), so he has to stay and fight/die or run. His own damage is quite low once First Strike is spent so again he gets a boost if the target is under cc. On cc immune targets the Scoundrel can lose so fast it aint even funny. When I first hit 60 and did some dailies in WoD that alchemist boss actually killed me once. So lets summarize, the Scound needs cc in order to:
- do damage
- avoid damage
He already has a very high chance to lose vs cc immunity. So once the devs reduce the daze effectiveness, something else needs to be boosted or this tree goes away and the whole TR rebalancing they did would be for nothing.
Now, personally I dont care, since sooner ot later I'll just be back to playing my 23k GWF who is my only true main but is currently maxed out. Nothing to do with him sept for Jewelcrafting. The rogues tho will be facing changes, I just hope they dont get destroyed cause playing one has been fun for me and after all, fun is what this game should be.
I'm sorry but this is just <expletive removed>. I just can't believe how far people go sometimes. Even as a new kid around here and this is out of touch with reality.
Low damage after first strike? please... maybe if your 10k GS is targeting a 20k GS player. There are a bunch of videos showing TR's low damage against a better geared people. Please just don't go there.
How fast do your dailies fill up again?
CC immunity? To my knowledge that would be a time limited GWF and a turtle GF. And that's not even the reason why it's harder for you to kill them, it's that big HP pool where they can take the first hit and still have enough to fight you. You would have no problem with cc immunity if you'd just one shot
I'm sorry but this is just <expletive removed> I just can't believe how far people go sometimes. Even as a new kid around here and this is out of touch with reality.
Low damage after first strike? please... maybe if your 10k GS is targeting a 20k GS player. There are a bunch of videos showing TR's low damage against a better geared people. Please just don't go there.
How fast do your dailies fill up again?
CC immunity? To my knowledge that would be a time limited GWF and a turtle GF. And that's not even the reason why it's harder for you to kill them, it's that big HP pool where they can take the first hit and still have enough to fight you. You would have no problem with cc immunity if you'd just one shot
Sir, I beg you, please calm down.
The above line of discussions were specifically about the "Scoundrel" build of the TRs, sir, and when it comes to us Scoundrels, it is actually true that we can't hit that hard. We're nothing like how Executioners can land 40k Lashing Blades, sir. A typical Scoundrel load-up has Dazing Strike as his hardest hitting weapon, and from stealth my DS hits for maybe 6~7k against GF/GWFs, 8k-ish against HRs, and lower than 5k against tab-shielded CWs. (remember, this is CRIT! damage I'm talking about, sir)
Us Scoundrels don't rely on "one big hit", sir. We rely on "one big opportunity" TRs aren't all the same, sir. Please remember that.
What you are doing here is exactly as what I have mentioned before. You're taking in theoretical maximums and then treating it as the stand-alone reality by which you judge and criticize us Scoundrel TRs, sir, when as a matter of fact, no Scoundrel in game currently runs any typical PvP match with the amount of deflection as you claim.
Please judge us by the reality of what us Scoundrels are, sir, instead of pinning on us a figment of your imagination and then blaming us for bogus stats.
With all due respect, sir, Scoundrels are in the 40~50% range on default. If you wish to simply dismiss what us Scoundrel TRs are telling you, then I sincerely hope at least other people would understand that we are not lying here.
The TRs that run around with 80% deflection, sir, only exist in your mind.
All I did is show you that it's more than possible to have more than 70% deflect. That was in reply to this morenthar guy who claimed that scoundrel would be dead if not for their infinite dazes. Guess what, a TR with 50% deflect already tanks better than a sentinel GWF, for example.
And yes, you do have bogus stats. You don't need to stack crit stat at all due to stealth, stacking armor penetration is also pointless if you have skills that pierce all defenses, recovery is unnecessary due to knife's edge feat, and the deflect severity that TRs have is way too much with all the boosts to dodge and stealth you guys received. When a TR deflects a CC power they don't even flinch anymore. And do you honestly believe that is fine and I'm just imagining things?
All I did is show you that it's more than possible to have more than 70% deflect. That was in reply to this morenthar guy who claimed that scoundrel would be dead if not for their infinite dazes. Guess what, a TR with 50% deflect already tanks better than a sentinel GWF, for example.
And yes, you do have bogus stats. You don't need to stack crit stat at all due to stealth, stacking armor penetration is also pointless if you have skills that pierce all defenses, recovery is unnecessary due to knife's edge feat, and the deflect severity that TRs have is way too much with all the boosts to dodge and stealth you guys received. When a TR deflects a CC power they don't even flinch anymore. And do you honestly believe that is fine and I'm just imagining things?
Maybe just listen, and go try for yourself. 50%+ base deflect with extra severity from pot, 40k hp and you got about 3 seconds to either daze a CW or go stealth, or you are dead.
Also I don't really get 2nd part of your post. First you talk about super high deflect which only Scoundrels have, and then you bring crit from stealth which scoundrels doesn't benefit from much since were 80-90% time out of stealth. Later you bring piercing damage (sabo, exe only) and then at the end you mention Sabo feat.
Do realize finally that no one TR can use ALL these things
Seems like you do seriously lack in skill, my alt TR (13k) kills with no effort 5-8k higher gs player in one way or another:
-Shocking Execution after dazed my opponent (100% to hit the target)
-stealth --> daze --> DF --> ITC --> back to stealth --> same rotation again and again until the target is dead.
My opinion to the whole thread is: Executioners and Saboteurs are just fine, when followed things done.
-fix SoD 2x proccing with DoT-enchants
-fix Shadow opportunity
-Shocking Execution
-Bloodbath + Knife's Edge
And Scoundrels could be fixed as well:
-the capstone which causes a daze need to be toned down on players or recharge speed upped. Or introduce an immunity after being dazed and leave the capstone how it is.
OK show me a video that you can kill them more than they kill you with your 13k TR vs 21k GS HR and GWF.
Maybe just listen, and go try for yourself. 50%+ base deflect with extra severity from pot, 40k hp and you got about 3 seconds to either daze a CW or go stealth, or you are dead.
Also I don't really get 2nd part of your post. First you talk about super high deflect which only Scoundrels have, and then you bring crit from stealth which scoundrels doesn't benefit from much since were 80-90% time out of stealth. Later you bring piercing damage (sabo, exe only) and then at the end you mention Sabo feat.
Do realize finally that no one TR can use ALL these things
Maybe you try playing any other class where failing/being unable to dodge TR's initial attack means kaput? Funny that you mention CW whose all CC powers you can easily deflect and not even flinch.
And hey, this is not a topic dedicated solely to Scoundrels. I'm free to speak about any path I choose. Got a problem?
As a side note, knife's edge is tier 2 feat. You can use that with any build. So is Shocking Execution as long as you're MI. And scoundrels being 80-90% outside stealth is a steaming bull****.
And you are the epitome of writing non baised true facts in the name or neutrality for everybodys benefit and not in any way bent toward defending your class so it can keep its current powers in such a way it suits you....
I don't flub numbers to kill a class. I don't play imaginary Neverwinter that includes a super TR capable of feating through every tree. I have documented logical and fair solutions to TR problems, often agreeing with PvPers I respect, who main OPPOSING classes.
You post <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like this. Keep living the illusion .
Can scoundrel ignore defenses? Check: shocking execution.
Can scoundrel use stealth? Check.
Can scoundrel use knife's edge feat? Check.
So oh wise one, tell me what did I mix up. Cause you have gone full ****** already.
I don't flub numbers to kill a class. I don't play imaginary Neverwinter that includes a super TR capable of feating through every tree. I have documented logical and fair solutions to TR problems, often agreeing with PvPers I respect, who main OPPOSING classes.
You post <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like this. Keep living the illusion .
And again you are the balanced epitome of clearmindness and fairness and ofc very humble about it also...
Documented -- logical -- fair solutions *cough *cough talk about illusion of grandeur...
You good sir might be alot of things but logical - fair and neutral is not included when it comes to your post about the Tr class in general and your build in particular.
You have so many people that post against you and very few that agree it should point you in some general direction but I will give you something that is your epitome and that is stubborness and tunnel vision sir.
Maybe you try playing any other class where failing/being unable to dodge TR's initial attack means kaput? Funny that you mention CW whose all CC powers you can easily deflect and not even flinch.
And hey, this is not a topic dedicated solely to Scoundrels. I'm free to speak about any path I choose. Got a problem?
As a side note, knife's edge is tier 2 feat. You can use that with any build. So is Shocking Execution as long as you're MI. And scoundrels being 80-90% outside stealth is a steaming bull****.
You can speak about any path you want, but stop misleading people. The way you write about TR create some Semi-god class, because you are stacking all the best skills/features from 3 paths and putting them together.
About CW, doesn't matter if I can deflect their cc if their damage can burn my hp bar in 3-5 sec no matter what deflect I have.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
You can speak about any path you want, but stop misleading people. The way you write about TR create some Semi-god class, because you are stacking all the best skills/features from 3 paths and putting them together.
About CW, doesn't matter if I can deflect their cc if their damage can burn my hp bar in 3-5 sec no matter what deflect I have.
PS: I play all classes, more or less
No, I did not put all 3 paths in one. Learn to read. And TR, despite their spec IS a demigod class. Even a blind person can see that. That makes you blind and ignorant.
I don't even PvP and yet I have to make a post here because it's so disgusting to read "TRs are squishy"
No, just no. They aren't. My 13k no boon lvl 60 TR has more deflect than my 25k main HR. A bit lower DR but would easily surpass my HR's with some boons and gear.
Then add stealth on TAB and ItC as more defense. TR squishy? Just no. Never been, and certainly not now.
With that said, I don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> what happens with TR. But stop saying TR is squishy, it's disgusting.
Lol @ those TRs. Always trying to lock any thread about TRs because they are too scared of incoming nerf. Q_Q
LOL @ those whining PvPers - complaining about something they don't fully understand.
I'm not scared of anything related to this game or any game. I've been playing a TR as my main since beta, even suffering through nearly a year of being the weakest class in the game. And I never complained about it.
Others have posted about ways to beat TRs in PvP and have been successful at doing it. It seems that many PvPers want an easy solution by screaming for countless nerfs. The current TR has already been nerfed several times DURING Mod 5 - read the Patch Notes.
Then, learn to play like the pros here that can actually kill TRs.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
You just exposed yourself nicely. Ignoring defense? I have zero problem with dazes affected by defensive mechanisms. As long as all attacks across all classes respect D Mechs. SE ? Agreed, it needs a fix. Stealth? Non-issue for Scoundrels . Knife's Edge? Nothing wrong with the feat itself. Anything else? You and martial make quite the pair .
Of course, it always has to be those 3 little words with you "as long as". You don't mind if TR gets nerfed, as long as your scoundrel is untouched. You don't mind if dazes respec defense mechanics as long as you could deflect even prones, amirite? You always have an ulterior motive with every suggestion of yours. Pathetic.
Of course, it always has to be those 3 little words with you "as long as". You don't mind if TR gets nerfed, as long as your scoundrel is untouched. You don't mind if dazes respec defense mechanics as long as you could deflect even prones, amirite? You always have an ulterior motive with every suggestion of yours. Pathetic.
Very well said, I am not even commenting anymore but I enjoy reading how mean they can be Like a children wo don't want to share his/her candy with other children, well they might have less fun eating the candy alone haha.
You just said what I was thinking.
first post in the forums so i'll take the chance to tell my story in NVW. i started playing like 2 months ago, only have 1 lvl.60 char which is a TR (MI-Exec). just got to around 13k gs, still with lvling build, and i'm interested in trying out both sab and scoundrel before i even check other classes out, since playing a rogue here is so much fun. i've been doing like 50-50 pve and pvp, but planning on going mostly pvp when i get better gear
now, so much talk about this and that, but almost no one referring to what, imo, is the most relevant sentence in OP's post:
I am not sure if I've been in a match in this mod without 4 TR's.
i certainly am not the most skilled TR in pvp, and certainly am a bit afraid of a nerf that will make my game time more difficult, but for the past weeks, every domination match (and they've been quite a bunch of them) that i remember had 2 TR's in each team. this is not balance at all. regardless of what should be changed - and i'm sure many TR's and others here with more experience have a lot a good suggestions.
Comments
Last night I was in a game fighting 2 TR / 2 CW (forgot who was their last member). Both TRs were capable of one shotting me (I am 25K GWF with 43.5k HP, 10.8k Power) both TRs were critting me between 55k~76k in ONE HIT (yes, I thought I saw the number wrong, so I went back to combat log, it was 76K Cri SE, I wonder how many can survive this hit...) But no I am not making further complains cus by now all the non-TRs agreed TR is just way too bugged, and no we didn't lose the game, we too had two strong CW and 2 TRs, we went from 200 : 400 to eventually beat them 1000 vs 800lish, great fight
Guess what, the 2 seconds visibility nerf and the talk about how fragile they are makes no difference if you get one shotted on first hit? The thing I found funny is, if you somehow survive the first hit from less geared TR, you will soon have the luxury of watching them activate SE to finish you instead of being finished unknowingly
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
- SE does ignore deflection
- Piercing Damage feats in Saboteur (while in stealth) or Executioner (stacks for 6 seconds and then procs) tree
About the 70% deflection - sounds pretty interesting. I would really like so see a Scoundrel build that can nearly reach this number.
We are always looking for new models --- Borderline Fashiondolls ---
Sir, I know it sounds redundant, but the only things us Scoundrel TRs can really recommend at this point would be simply "try your own and see if that's possible." It is usually the best way to deal with misconceptions, sir.
In my case I have both my DEX and CHA stats above 20, sir, and have still managed to be able to reach 40k HP despite initially low CON stats. As you may know, to do this it takes a lot of investment in rad enchants for HP boosts in all of the defense-slots for my gear. (It's now considered generally better to invest in both DEX and CHA if you want deflection , because it provides a fixed increase in deflect percentage, unlike how silvery enchants in defense slots go through diminishing returns.) At this point my deflection was at 39%, sir.
Recently, I've decided to try and drop a bit of HP and invest in more deflect, which brought me down to 38k HP / 45% deflection. Of course, it has a lot to do with how I didn't invest the 3 points for extra deflection, as well as not being a halfling, or a MI paragon, sir.
So if I were all of those, I would be able to add in and extra 7%, and get my deflection up to 52%. This is about how high we can go under normal circumstances, sir.
I can get it up higher, but at that point my HP/offense starts creeping lower than the level of competency I desire, and I would basically slowly turn into a PvE build. If I want to fight people at 20k GS and above range, I need that much HP. Even 38k is low, and I'm considering to go back to 40k and dump 3% or more deflection, sir.
If you are referring to conditional fluctuations in deflection due to special feats, it is simply situational. That would be the same thing as assuming a GWF will always have the same amount of DR as when he is in Unstoppable+Sprinting -- which is also not true, sir, as you obviously know. Or, if it is in reference to how certain group/level of PvP players tend to drink down all those potions to augment their stats, then you know as well as I do this applies to all classes in the same manner, sir.
In either case, the way you are treating the TRs is seriously unfair, and biased, sir.
I didn't say scoundrels can have 70% deflection and even that isn't so impossible as they gain more deflection chance when their hp drops below a certain threshold. But i am not sure if they have reached 70% deflection chance in pvp without pots and food.
As I've explained in my own post above, Scoundrel TRs regardless of MI or WK, usually hold around 50% deflection at maximum, and this applies to 19~20k GS ranges, sir.
We have two feats that increase deflection by 10%, so "theoretically" a 70% can be reached for very brief moments, but as I've also contended in another post, sir, that's a result of people just reviewing tool-tips and making up "theoretical maximums" in their imagination without considering the actual conditions of real combat. Since many of such have never played Scoundrel build TRs, I don't blame them for just assuming things by reading tool-tips, but like all things the reality is quite different, sir.
...
I used to take both feats and invest full 5/5 faithfully.. it felt so nice to see my deflection having +10% at certain moments.. but after I realized that those are meaningless numbers that don't ever manifest in the moments I really needed it, I just dumped it, sir. A 10% increase when you ENTER stealth is pretty much useless considering how us Scoundrels operate, and a good TR would make sure to avoid falling under 30% HP in the first place, sir.
So what happened for me, sir, is that I don't use any of those. I just make by with my natural deflection rate.
I can dare guarantee, sir, that most of the good Scoundrel TRs you meet in a fight would be at 40~50% range.
Please consider sir, that a 40~50% deflection chance is achieved by other classes as well, and often even more easily, with less investment, than us TRs, sir.
For instance, my fresh-lv60 HR is currently at 41% without even thinking about it, sir.
Lucky skirmisher heroic feat +3%
Deflection stat +15-20%
Skillful infiltration feature +3%
Roll with the punches feat +2.5%
CHA 16+6+1(campfire buff)+1(+1 to all stats potion)-10 => +14%
DEX 16+6+2+1+1-10 => +16%
CHA/DEX belt +4%
*Survivor feat at 30% hp +10%
*Mocking gesture feat when entering stealth +10%
3+3+15~20+3+2.5+14+16+4=60.5%~65.5% without above feats active, 80.5%-85.5% with. So please... :rolleyes:
Sir, I bid you please, "try and see".
What you are doing here is exactly as what I have mentioned before. You're taking in theoretical maximums and then treating it as the stand-alone reality by which you judge and criticize us Scoundrel TRs, sir, when as a matter of fact, no Scoundrel in game currently runs any typical PvP match with the amount of deflection as you claim.
Please judge us by the reality of what us Scoundrels are, sir, instead of pinning on us a figment of your imagination and then blaming us for bogus stats.
With all due respect, sir, Scoundrels are in the 40~50% range on default. If you wish to simply dismiss what us Scoundrel TRs are telling you, then I sincerely hope at least other people would understand that we are not lying here.
The TRs that run around with 80% deflection, sir, only exist in your mind.
This^. I've said it before ( and ppl really need to shut up and just playtest before posting opinions). The Scoundrel is daze based. Damage prevents him from re-stealthing unless shadow strike is slotted (WKs get other options as well), so he has to stay and fight/die or run. His own damage is quite low once First Strike is spent so again he gets a boost if the target is under cc. On cc immune targets the Scoundrel can lose so fast it aint even funny. When I first hit 60 and did some dailies in WoD that alchemist boss actually killed me once. So lets summarize, the Scound needs cc in order to:
- do damage
- avoid damage
He already has a very high chance to lose vs cc immunity. So once the devs reduce the daze effectiveness, something else needs to be boosted or this tree goes away and the whole TR rebalancing they did would be for nothing.
Now, personally I dont care, since sooner ot later I'll just be back to playing my 23k GWF who is my only true main but is currently maxed out. Nothing to do with him sept for Jewelcrafting. The rogues tho will be facing changes, I just hope they dont get destroyed cause playing one has been fun for me and after all, fun is what this game should be.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I made my Scoundrel with deflect in mind. He has a legendary Dex belt, high deflect stat and he has taken every possible +deflect% feat along with +deflect% passive. The end result is 52% in PVP.
Regardless if it is due to lack of information or just blind hate, exxageration always makes you lose credibility.
PS: To get that deflect while being a 16.6 Scoundrel I sacrifice HP. Mine is at ~26K
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I'm sorry but this is just <expletive removed>. I just can't believe how far people go sometimes. Even as a new kid around here and this is out of touch with reality.
Low damage after first strike? please... maybe if your 10k GS is targeting a 20k GS player. There are a bunch of videos showing TR's low damage against a better geared people. Please just don't go there.
How fast do your dailies fill up again?
CC immunity? To my knowledge that would be a time limited GWF and a turtle GF. And that's not even the reason why it's harder for you to kill them, it's that big HP pool where they can take the first hit and still have enough to fight you. You would have no problem with cc immunity if you'd just one shot
Sir, I beg you, please calm down.
The above line of discussions were specifically about the "Scoundrel" build of the TRs, sir, and when it comes to us Scoundrels, it is actually true that we can't hit that hard. We're nothing like how Executioners can land 40k Lashing Blades, sir. A typical Scoundrel load-up has Dazing Strike as his hardest hitting weapon, and from stealth my DS hits for maybe 6~7k against GF/GWFs, 8k-ish against HRs, and lower than 5k against tab-shielded CWs. (remember, this is CRIT! damage I'm talking about, sir)
Us Scoundrels don't rely on "one big hit", sir. We rely on "one big opportunity" TRs aren't all the same, sir. Please remember that.
All I did is show you that it's more than possible to have more than 70% deflect. That was in reply to this morenthar guy who claimed that scoundrel would be dead if not for their infinite dazes. Guess what, a TR with 50% deflect already tanks better than a sentinel GWF, for example.
And yes, you do have bogus stats. You don't need to stack crit stat at all due to stealth, stacking armor penetration is also pointless if you have skills that pierce all defenses, recovery is unnecessary due to knife's edge feat, and the deflect severity that TRs have is way too much with all the boosts to dodge and stealth you guys received. When a TR deflects a CC power they don't even flinch anymore. And do you honestly believe that is fine and I'm just imagining things?
Maybe just listen, and go try for yourself. 50%+ base deflect with extra severity from pot, 40k hp and you got about 3 seconds to either daze a CW or go stealth, or you are dead.
Also I don't really get 2nd part of your post. First you talk about super high deflect which only Scoundrels have, and then you bring crit from stealth which scoundrels doesn't benefit from much since were 80-90% time out of stealth. Later you bring piercing damage (sabo, exe only) and then at the end you mention Sabo feat.
Do realize finally that no one TR can use ALL these things
OK show me a video that you can kill them more than they kill you with your 13k TR vs 21k GS HR and GWF.
Maybe you try playing any other class where failing/being unable to dodge TR's initial attack means kaput? Funny that you mention CW whose all CC powers you can easily deflect and not even flinch.
And hey, this is not a topic dedicated solely to Scoundrels. I'm free to speak about any path I choose. Got a problem?
As a side note, knife's edge is tier 2 feat. You can use that with any build. So is Shocking Execution as long as you're MI. And scoundrels being 80-90% outside stealth is a steaming bull****.
Orly, and you and him are not? Pathetic losers advocating for OP abilities.
And you are the epitome of writing non baised true facts in the name or neutrality for everybodys benefit and not in any way bent toward defending your class so it can keep its current powers in such a way it suits you....
Glasshouse and stones comes to mind....
Can scoundrel ignore defenses? Check: shocking execution.
Can scoundrel use stealth? Check.
Can scoundrel use knife's edge feat? Check.
So oh wise one, tell me what did I mix up. Cause you have gone full ****** already.
You're one to talk.
And again you are the balanced epitome of clearmindness and fairness and ofc very humble about it also...
Documented -- logical -- fair solutions *cough *cough talk about illusion of grandeur...
You good sir might be alot of things but logical - fair and neutral is not included when it comes to your post about the Tr class in general and your build in particular.
You have so many people that post against you and very few that agree it should point you in some general direction but I will give you something that is your epitome and that is stubborness and tunnel vision sir.
Have a good day.
You can speak about any path you want, but stop misleading people. The way you write about TR create some Semi-god class, because you are stacking all the best skills/features from 3 paths and putting them together.
About CW, doesn't matter if I can deflect their cc if their damage can burn my hp bar in 3-5 sec no matter what deflect I have.
PS: I play all classes, more or less
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
No, I did not put all 3 paths in one. Learn to read. And TR, despite their spec IS a demigod class. Even a blind person can see that. That makes you blind and ignorant.
No, just no. They aren't. My 13k no boon lvl 60 TR has more deflect than my 25k main HR. A bit lower DR but would easily surpass my HR's with some boons and gear.
Then add stealth on TAB and ItC as more defense. TR squishy? Just no. Never been, and certainly not now.
With that said, I don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> what happens with TR. But stop saying TR is squishy, it's disgusting.
LOL @ those whining PvPers - complaining about something they don't fully understand.
I'm not scared of anything related to this game or any game. I've been playing a TR as my main since beta, even suffering through nearly a year of being the weakest class in the game. And I never complained about it.
Others have posted about ways to beat TRs in PvP and have been successful at doing it. It seems that many PvPers want an easy solution by screaming for countless nerfs. The current TR has already been nerfed several times DURING Mod 5 - read the Patch Notes.
Then, learn to play like the pros here that can actually kill TRs.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Of course, it always has to be those 3 little words with you "as long as". You don't mind if TR gets nerfed, as long as your scoundrel is untouched. You don't mind if dazes respec defense mechanics as long as you could deflect even prones, amirite? You always have an ulterior motive with every suggestion of yours. Pathetic.
Very well said, I am not even commenting anymore but I enjoy reading how mean they can be
You just said what I was thinking.
now, so much talk about this and that, but almost no one referring to what, imo, is the most relevant sentence in OP's post:
i certainly am not the most skilled TR in pvp, and certainly am a bit afraid of a nerf that will make my game time more difficult, but for the past weeks, every domination match (and they've been quite a bunch of them) that i remember had 2 TR's in each team. this is not balance at all. regardless of what should be changed - and i'm sure many TR's and others here with more experience have a lot a good suggestions.