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A TR's view on PVP TR's

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  • revovlerjesus1revovlerjesus1 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Well it do happen that in a 5on5 match u get to do some 1on1s, bad thing is the TR will come out winning most (or all) the time depend on skill/gear ofc. If u cant see that TRs and DPSdc for that matter needs to be adjusted a bit then u are blind. Tbh i think fixing some with the TRs and DCs and boost the SWs, we might have the most balanced pvp mod ever.
  • grobb1grobb1 Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 34
    edited January 2015
    TR's are not going to win 1vs1 every time and they dont win 1vs1 everytime. tr's cant kill the troll dc and i can hold a node on my GF untill i get back up just fine.

    the only statement that is true is alot of people end up playing TR exceptionally well and the TR is often played easily.

    I am noticing that alot of "leet" players are attempting to find the perfect hybrid role and i blame this on why people are getting owned. Also i think alot of people are still learning to stack attribute,encounters, boons even though they think they know what they are doing its actually another story.

    I have multiple classes with different build. this includes TR, i have one with perma stealth and one pure dps face melt. I play my gf and gwf in pvp as a team member and i dont care about how TR's can kill someone 1vs1 "everytime". when you go into pvp it is a team situation, if you get caught alone and are handled then learn to not get caught alone so often.

    If you are purposefully going out alone to see if you can finally prove your mettle and receive bragging rights but loose anyways then that is no ones fault but your own. Anyways you will always catch me on my GWF in pvp who is pure dps with no added constitution on character creation- i stack dps only and im fine playing as support only. Because of that my team wins most of the time- name is mimosa. TRs try to hunt me down and kill me but im hardly ever alone... as soon as i see one i sprint over and snare them and then sprint about 10 ft away immediately so my CW and SW can make short work of them. ITS SO FUNNY TO SEE EVERYTIME. Sometimes i am lucky enough to sprint back in for the kill shot and get my name on the screen.

    Who really cares if people cant beat a TR 1 vs 1?
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    grobb1 wrote: »
    why are people so stuck on 1vs1?

    You are not getting it in your head sadly.

    You're right on one thing. It shouldn't only be about 1v1....except the TR is also the best at keeping 2 people busy for the longest time and even possibly beating both of them. TRs can go to long durations of stealth, shadow strike and ITC to keep 2 people occupied.

    A CW can fight 1v1 most classes but they do not have stealth so they instantly die within seconds in a 2v1.
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Tr is best class for 1v1,1v2,1v3,1v4,1v5 ..... lol
  • grac3n77grac3n77 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I just hope they have a 1v1 queing system with leader board so that they will know TR is not the king of 1v1 I have an HR trapper with high regen which I can also heal my allies like a DC and I have no problem if it comes to 1v1 with a TR same goes to my CW.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I just hope they have a 1v1 queing system with leader board so that they will know TR is not the king of 1v1 I have an HR trapper with high regen which I can also heal my allies like a DC and I have no problem if it comes to 1v1 with a TR same goes to my CW.

    1 We are not talking about the healing dc whit pet and if you ment a normal endless spamming making team immortal dc I guess you lost all credibility you ever had and ever would have.

    2 If you have no problem with Trs you are the sole champ of Hr in the game because even the absolut best have huge problems with Trs so are you saying that you are in a class for yourself.

    You dont happend to play Tr do ya now run along and troll some other forum.
  • hedgebethedgebet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I am not a very good TR and I have a lot of problems with TR but I also have a lot of problems with other classes too. I likely have more fun than anyone else though so hah!
  • osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    grac3n77 wrote: »
    I just hope they have a 1v1 queing system with leader board so that they will know TR is not the king of 1v1 I have an HR trapper with high regen which I can also heal my allies like a DC and I have no problem if it comes to 1v1 with a TR same goes to my CW.

    I call BS on that post. Quite sure your main is a TR lol. Nice try.
    The facts contradict everything you just stated.

    Tell me the time your online, so I send a TR against your HR or CW. I give you 1m ad if you win, but for that, I am allowed to take a screenshot of every defeat u suffer. Will be a nice collection of pictures.

    TR kids these days…
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I call BS on that post. Quite sure your main is a TR lol. Nice try.
    The facts contradict everything you just stated.

    Tell me the time your online, so I send a TR against your HR or CW. I give you 1m ad if you win, but for that, I am allowed to take a screenshot of every defeat u suffer. Will be a nice collection of pictures.

    TR kids these days…

    who is the tr?
  • mirrorballsmirrorballs Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    I call BS on that post. Quite sure your main is a TR lol. Nice try.
    The facts contradict everything you just stated.

    Tell me the time your online, so I send a TR against your HR or CW. I give you 1m ad if you win, but for that, I am allowed to take a screenshot of every defeat u suffer. Will be a nice collection of pictures.

    TR kids these days…

    I have seen a HR that regularly beat TRs, even when they were stronger in preview, sir. Ironically, as it turns out, he was also a trapper then. But then given the fact he was a player that outclasses most of the people in these boards by a wide margin with much confidence, I do admit its not a case that can be regularly referenced in terms of class balance.

    (ps) Trapper roots, for some reason, also ignore some CC-breakers such as Vengeance's Pursuit, sir. Much like the Ray of Frost root ignores the CC-breaking function. Makes life pretty hard for at least Whisperknives... when's this going to be fixed, i wonder, sir. Just for a FYI.
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  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I have seen a HR that regularly beat TRs, even when they were stronger in preview, sir. Ironically, as it turns out, he was also a trapper then. But then given the fact he was a player that outclasses most of the people in these boards by a wide margin with much confidence, I do admit its not a case that can be regularly referenced in terms of class balance.

    (ps) Trapper roots, for some reason, also ignore some CC-breakers such as Vengeance's Pursuit, sir. Much like the Ray of Frost root ignores the CC-breaking function. Makes life pretty hard for at least Whisperknives... when's this going to be fixed, i wonder, sir. Just for a FYI.
    that's why i was asking, for me the stronger class 1vs1 is a scoundrel tr that however can be countered with a gwf/dc ( no, shocking execution is broken full stop. i m assuming a no shocking execution 1vs1 )

    every other tr is more or less easy to play against.
    the damage source of saboteur are piercing daggers and gloaming cut, the first ones bring the tr visible 2 seconds for each daggers....it's dead. Trapper HR (i know for sure, i main him) will eat him alive, same dps dc, same cw since shield is bugged and piercing does not work against it.
    executioner are cheese, once double proc of shadow of demise are fixed we will laugh at it.

    i can say my problem with tr right now is: dazes ( feat only dazes are ok, encounter dazes are ok, both are too many) and shocking execution.

    all the other aspects are just a l2p problem.


    about shocking execution i prefer it to not ignore dr at all and buff the base damage.
    its damage is not "that" high. it just ignores dr bringing it up to more or less ridicolous levels which never change.
    cw are able to hit for way more.
    maggio. from element (my guild) can hit me for 20k but with the right features (chilling presence, caos magic, crit) that sometimes skyrockets to 115k mitigated to 70k.
    knife edge should be totally reworked in something else.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    as long as the TR can stealth and onhit out of stealth, no need to invest anything into defense this hole discussion is worthless
    yesterday 16k TR (think its sab tree?) with >10 Power >2k crit ARP etc, no tenacity 1,5 k DR, 500 toughness and regen..
    he was going arround just onehitting everyone..
    stealth has to be reworked, SE and all these other redicules encounters has to tolerate at least Tenacity,
    for what reason do all other classes invest into tenacity/DR toughness etc and sacrifice offence? Just to be onehittet?
    playing a permastealth is cheap with all these broken encounters, so take away the damage as long they are in stealth, give them damage out of stealth
    so if these permastealth hiding rogues want to fight they have to appear
  • osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I have seen a HR that regularly beat TRs

    Name or it didnt happen. Because I speak of the best HRs and best TRs. And the best HRs can NOT beat a TR right now. Period. As no other class can win against a TR (always best class player vs best TR).

    Ofc you can get lucky against a TR with roots or TR makes several misstakes in a row, but in general: NO CLASS CAN BEAT A TR.

    No offense: but players like rayrdan are far away from being a top TR. So its mainly his l2p issue if he cant beat every other class. There is a reason, why in every serious premade there are ALWAYS two people on the TR, because 1vs1 he cannot be beaten. I can provide countless hours of videos about that if u dont believe. Footage of the best pvp guilds battling each other. And you HAVE always send two people to the TR node, not to speak, that you cant queue pmvspm without a rogue these days.

    So can we pls cut the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and beeing honest here: TR is broken right now because of several issues. It is not a l2p issue for other classes. Its kinda funny ONLY TRs are saying "just l2p". Every other player, even the best of the best, acknowledge that TRs are OP and broken.

    You guys are lying to urself…
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  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Name or it didnt happen. Because I speak of the best HRs and best TRs. And the best HRs can NOT beat a TR right now. Period. As no other class can win against a TR (always best class player vs best TR).

    Ofc you can get lucky against a TR with roots or TR makes several misstakes in a row, but in general: NO CLASS CAN BEAT A TR.

    No offense: but players like rayrdan are far away from being a top TR. So its mainly his l2p issue if he cant beat every other class. There is a reason, why in every serious premade there are ALWAYS two people on the TR, because 1vs1 he cannot be beaten. I can provide countless hours of videos about that if u dont believe. Footage of the best pvp guilds battling each other. And you HAVE always send two people to the TR node, not to speak, that you cant queue pmvspm without a rogue these days.

    So can we pls cut the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and beeing honest here: TR is broken right now because of several issues. It is not a l2p issue for other classes. Its kinda funny ONLY TRs are saying "just l2p". Every other player, even the best of the best, acknowledge that TRs are OP and broken.

    You guys are lying to urself…

    the point i was trying to explain is that the situation is not as critical as it seems. nerfing dazes and shocking, maybe take a look at knife edge should be enough to balance things.
    mod 5 i m playing full time my HR i have little problem vs tr until either a shocking comes to my head or i am permadazed.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    rayrdan wrote: »
    that's why i was asking, for me the stronger class 1vs1 is a scoundrel tr that however can be countered with a gwf/dc ( no, shocking execution is broken full stop. i m assuming a no shocking execution 1vs1 )

    every other tr is more or less easy to play against.
    the damage source of saboteur are piercing daggers and gloaming cut, the first ones bring the tr visible 2 seconds for each daggers....it's dead. Trapper HR (i know for sure, i main him) will eat him alive, same dps dc, same cw since shield is bugged and piercing does not work against it.
    executioner are cheese, once double proc of shadow of demise are fixed we will laugh at it.

    i can say my problem with tr right now is: dazes ( feat only dazes are ok, encounter dazes are ok, both are too many) and shocking execution.

    all the other aspects are just a l2p problem.


    about shocking execution i prefer it to not ignore dr at all and buff the base damage.
    its damage is not "that" high. it just ignores dr bringing it up to more or less ridicolous levels which never change.
    cw are able to hit for way more.
    maggio. from element (my guild) can hit me for 20k but with the right features (chilling presence, caos magic, crit) that sometimes skyrockets to 115k mitigated to 70k.
    knife edge should be totally reworked in something else.

    The biggest problem with scoundrel i think is mainly what it cumulate at high lvl, with high equip, it can still be perma stealth, the daze allow to control target too long and it permit too much mechanism. Here i TR i meet two days ago in gauntlym. the guy was scoundrel, he played this way and was able to keep 5 player on a spot alone.
    Perma stealth, daze with smoke bomb, if daze success, daily and goes back to stealth. turn around and restart 10 second later. etc..
    The worst in that is he was playing with a very high deflect, i saw it by most of my shoot doesn't deal damage when i was able to dodge smoke bomb and even if i was able to strike before dodge.
    His damage were not this high, but there is no way i can imagine a build to actually beat that in a one to one.
    .
    daze control are too long, stealth mechnism still allow to be perma stealth without choosint the perma way and at least the fact that knock out effect are practicaly banished or this hard to use doesn't give any opportunity to fight back.

    There is at least one thing that need to be drop. High DR, too much dodge, perma stealth, control too long, lack of mechnism to pass DR in a couple of class. some things have to change.

    Even if it require perfect play, perfect build, i should still able to think in a way to win, actually, it not when it come to this kind of TR.
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  • osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mod 5 i m playing full time my HR i have little problem vs tr until either a shocking comes to my head or i am permadazed.

    "Perma daze" is not happening in high end premades. Its just, daze --> some GCs --> daze --> BB or shocking --> dead

    If the TR misses his roation or his daze, he just stays in stealth hiding, if things go crucial, emergency BB --> all encounters of cd, rinse and repeat.
    Wanna try some 1vs1 with a TR who doesnt use SE? Only timed dazing and SS… good luck "beating" that setup. I witnessed that when you got destroyed in some streamed matches :-P
    No offense because nothing you can really do. In one out of ten times you might even get lucky and catch the TR wih roots, and you migt proc his SF and maybe even kill him. That doesnt outweight the other 9 times when ur getting slaughtered.

    Its funny to actual witness such a situation on TS, when someone says he can handle TRs, then he is matched up against a BiS and dangerous TR (not these bandwaggon hopping TRs because the class is OP), then he goes 1-10 against him, and thats the point when these players are either getting really quite or really loud on TS. Funny to watch…
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    think everybody knows there is no chance against a well geared, and especially good performing TR
    fortunately, going pug all the time, there are not as many good performing TR´s as someone tried to make us believe: "this class is played by most scilled people"
    its exactly the opposite: "this class is played by the most scilless player" for sure, its cheap to play , only ppl who can´t succeed with other classes will go for it,
    every time i meet a scilled TR its beyond hope to succeed
  • mirrorballsmirrorballs Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    xsayajinx1 wrote: »
    Yesterday a guildie TR (saboteur) ~19k gs and me (CW(renegade): very close to 20k) had training session in IWP.

    Rules were:
    -no pets
    -no pots
    -soulforge is stop
    -everything else allowed.
    So he beat me 10 times in a row and lucky me won once.

    Then we introduced that dailies are forbidden skills.
    And guess what?
    The game changed the way around. Now I was permanently winning match per match.

    Conclusion: TR Dailies need rework. But it's kinda hard to say what needs to be done without making them useless...

    -Maybe SE needs hard base damage reduction (ignore DR and everything else would be okay then)

    -Bloodbath + Knife's Edge multi procc needs to be fixed. And something like BB can't activated in stealth, so not every single hit crits with 100%.

    More like the first thing that needs to be done, is RETRACT all classes in their massive rate of AP gain, sir. Particularly the artifacts Sigil of the Devoted, and artifact cloaks that provde freebie AP per time.

    Currently the entire PvP scene is of a massively warped one where players of all classes simply bombard the field with so much 'special powers', which were designed from the start to be used rarely, only in certain intervals as the natural AP gain rate allowed. Instead, we've all seen videos showing some TRs are using 6~7 Daily powers within the span of 3 minutes, sir.

    TRs are by definition one of the slowest AP gaining classes, and thus many of our dailies are comparatively very powerful. These were never supposed to be spammed so much. Although to a lesser extent all classes have the same problem -- we've all seen the mid-node just covered with 2.. 3... 4.. AoE dailies right from the start of the match.

    This is abnormal, sirs. The devs have actually blocked how we can fill up our AP bar before entering a match, because certain classes -- like us TRs -- simply opening up the fight with powerful dailies can ruin a match really quickly and skew up the results. I dunno if the devs have forgotten what they've done in the past, or simply their policy changed, but whatever it is, this is wrong.


    Sigil of the Devoted should be something like 10~20% more AP gain on passive, and 100% more AP gain for 15 seconds when activated... and the cloak should be ASSISTING AP through adding more buffs like maybe 5~10% more AP gain or so, instead of automatically increasing your AP with simply given time. Or conversely, the freebie AP should only kick in when in combat -- this is what I think, sirs.

    Of course, this should be on TOP of rebalancing TR dailies -- or rather, the obscene amount of damage Exec builds do... (as well as bug fixes for the double-proc SoD).
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  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    morenthar wrote: »
    ....and there are guys like this.

    At nearly 21k GS in PvP, I can totally dominate a GG match. If it's the right match with players very obviously far lower in GS, it's a slaughter. Rocking 3 gap closers I can kill so fast against weak opponents that it starts a flame fest in zone chat.

    Here's the best part about this guy's post.....it probably wasn't a Scoundrel that did this....

    Again, just because a TR can daze you, it doesn't mean that TR was a Scoundrel. It was likely a Saboteur perma-stealthing and easily hitting people with Dazing Strike. The way people can bunch up near GG spawn area, a stealthed Sab, which he almost always will be, can even Daze multiple target with Dazing Strike. Then pop Bloodbath and the party is over.

    What was dazing me was not dazing strike but smoke bomb, second point you assume that the group i was was low GS and that not the case at all. I'm still at 20 k myself and two other at least were on same lvl (haven't time to check the whole party). the fact that A TR and what ever his build was(pretty sure it was a scoundrel there), Can keep busy what ever the other side is this much people doesn't look like fair to me. I can understand there is player's way better than me, but i should at least be able to imagine a way of play and a kind of build even if it require everything on a perfect spot. every class should have his weak point.(edit we were smart enough to not be all on same point to not be dazed all)
    you says he i'm doing this and that with my TR's and i win. replace it with an other class and say it again. no..
    It's why even with all the cheat in the PVP classment you get this much difference between kill/death ratio between TR and other class.

    How ever, now there is less and less player in PVP and at least 40 % are TR's. PVP is involving less and less player, due to matchtmaching problem, lvl problem and also unbalance problem between class
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  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    morenthar wrote: »
    I can see how smoke bomb can be a problem for people in GG bunched near spawn. But you can walk out of it. In GG a TR, no matter the tree can just go full on murderous. Sometimes I don't even slot Shadow Strike and just pop lowbies with Impact Shot .

    ok here my point a whole alone question. answer it. You said hee with my TR's build i'm doing... etc etc.. Now question is simple. Can you post give a build within all other class (than TR) with same lvl that can fight back and contest the node at one to one on equal ground.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I agree that Dailies shouldn't be aviable so much, even less in PVP. those are powerful skills that are meant to be used once in a while, not eveyr 30 seconds or so, and that goes for all classes.
    I would even be in favor of removing dailies from PVP in general.
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  • kr3ndkr3nd Member Posts: 132 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    reiwulf wrote: »
    I agree that Dailies shouldn't be aviable so much, even less in PVP. those are powerful skills that are meant to be used once in a while, not eveyr 30 seconds or so, and that goes for all classes.
    I would even be in favor of removing dailies from PVP in general.

    Not much fun if your class have CC imun only from daily.
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  • mirrorballsmirrorballs Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    kr3nd wrote: »
    Not much fun if your class have CC imun only from daily.

    Hence, all classes using dailies at the normal, intended rate of AP gains should be desirable, sir.

    Like mentioned, TRs currently benefit the most from Sigil of the Devoted and AP cloaks. Even without an AP-heavy build the cloak will ensure you get to use your dailies thrice~quadruple more times than a TR without it. The DC artifact ensures a kill from the right start of the match, so when the TR infiltrates the back node the first enemy player to come defend it is guaranteed dead with 1-shot.

    With that kill another SE fires up due to what the hell were the devs thinking level of bad design. This SE will also likely 1-shot kill the second defender coming to defend it, with the SoD bug proc in place. Even if it hits only for 20k, a double SoD proc adds another 20k 6 seconds later, nice 40k, unmitigated damage incoming. Just a minute or so passes after that, a third defender comes and the free AP gains from the cloak + AP generated by the TR itself will almost guaranteed to fill up your AP bar a 3rd time within maybe 10~20 seconds of the 3rd fight, and as soon as it is charged up another double-deal of Shocking Execution is unleashed. That allows you another instant two kills.... and about another minute later, the AP cloak again fills a lot of your AP bar, and at the same time the DC artifact is about to be recharged.

    While this is sheer folly, other classes are just as bad.


    Sir, dailies are a part of the game, and all classes need them -- but IMO, it should be only available to your within its natural limits around default AP gain rate. AP bonuses may slightly boost this gain, that wouldn't be so bad, but currently, the DC artifact is simply BiS for almost all classes. It's not just BiS as in having good stats, but rather it is BiS in that it alters and augments the performance of your class upto ABNORMAL levels.


    The two largest issues of PvP right now, sirs, I would count them as; (1) the 1-shot Executioner builds and their bugged SoD feat, and (2) abnormal level of AP gains for all classes. I understand many of you who are not TRs, might actually turn defensive and against this view because you yourselves are part of the people who are abusing this for your own purposes, whether be it PvE or PvP.

    Sirs, please, just as you hate the ridiculous 1-shot of certain TRs, know that you yourselves are part of the problem which allows the TRs to just spam those broken powers with impunity -- just as you yourself might enjoy spamming your own dailies. Please help us form a consensus and put a stop to the AP gain.
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