I would be more in favor of putting a cap on the amount of delayed healing that can be stored, or having the stored heals gradually degrade over time. The problem with an internal cooldown is that it would negate the ability to dish out more powerful heals on allies that are low on health (and trigger gift of faith as soon as they get healed), which is what the build is supposed to be about.
You are not supposed to take it down alone. Or it would be a useless build as it was in module 4.
Hmm just want to ask you, what is your advice when there is 2 dcs in the mid? Bring 4 guys to fight them? There is 2 nodes more, and 1 guy left...
Also one more thing: DC is not only making super tanky himself, but also ppl around him, so unless you have another dc in ur team fightin next to u, hes friend well burn u before u get to drop dcs hp below 50% (dc+cw make such a sweet couple lately...)
Hmm just want to ask you, what is your advice when there is 2 dcs in the mid? Bring 4 guys to fight them? There is 2 nodes more, and 1 guy left...
Also one more thing: DC is not only making super tanky himself, but also ppl around him, so unless you have another dc in ur team fightin next to u, hes friend well burn u before u get to drop dcs hp below 50% (dc+cw make such a sweet couple lately...)
GWF, GF, or CW to knock them off the node, lock them down, and then kill them.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
I would be more in favor of putting a cap on the amount of delayed healing that can be stored, or having the stored heals gradually degrade over time. The problem with an internal cooldown is that it would negate the ability to dish out more powerful heals on allies that are low on health (and trigger gift of faith as soon as they get healed), which is what the build is supposed to be about.
The ICD would be personal for each target you heal, not on the capstone itself.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Instead of an ICD I would purpose the buff itself has a duration, its currently the only buff that comes to mind without a duration.
Perhaps the buff's duration would be reset by an additional ability stack being added, this would keep the cleric themselves the same strength but lower the broken nature of players with the buff going wherever they want.
ICD would be a stronger fix I agree but I also tend to look for other options myself before considering ICD, Usually if something needs an ICD it's probably too strong by nature and should have been implemented differently and often it will make little difference in PvP (Eye of the Storm) for instance. Most things in this game could be designed better and not have ICD.
The ICD would be personal for each target you heal, not on the capstone itself.
Hmm, that means you would only get one fat heal on your ally before entering cooldown, so you'd have to make it count. It would sure calm down the healing fest a bit, sort of like an extra healing depression. My question then is what do we do with the health that would have been stored, does it transform back into heal over time, as if you didn't have the capstone when healing targets under cooldown? Does it get stored but not distributed until the end of the cooldown? Does it vanish into thin air?
Also, how long of a cooldown are we talking about? A shorter one that has a chance of expiring during prolonged combat, or something more in line with armor enchant in the 30-60 second range?
Hmm, that means you would only get one fat heal on your ally before entering cooldown, so you'd have to make it count. It would sure calm down the healing fest a bit, sort of like an extra healing depression. My question then is what do we do with the health that would have been stored, does it transform back into heal over time, as if you didn't have the capstone when healing targets under cooldown? Does it get stored but not distributed until the end of the cooldown? Does it vanish into thin air?
Also, how long of a cooldown are we talking about? A shorter one that has a chance of expiring during prolonged combat, or something more in line with armor enchant in the 30-60 second range?
From my point of view it would work this way: GoF healing is stored on a target and then expires when the target drops low on health. Then, GoF proc goes on CD, but HP keeps being stored, the buff itself just can't proc until the CD is over.
Regarding ICD duration, I think 5-10 seconds would be reasonable.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
The % of health where Gift of Faith activates should be lowered to 15% or 20% too. 45% is way too much on tank builds. Ever seen a combo of GF with KV on and faithful DC on mid? If not for the currently OP Shocking Execution of TRs, they would be literally unkillable.
Another problem I see is dps DC dishing out dps comparable to CWs yet much more tankier + able to support team with heals, area buffs. What the fruit is that?
The % of health where Gift of Faith activates should be lowered to 15% or 20% too. 45% is way too much on tank builds. Ever seen a combo of GF with KV on and faithful DC on mid? If not for the currently OP Shocking Execution of TRs, they would be literally unkillable.
Another problem I see is dps DC dishing out dps comparable to CWs yet much more tankier + able to support team with heals, area buffs. What the fruit is that?
Just fight a good dc player, his name is start with moonshadow. When i use shocking execution on him, he blocked! !! Are there anyone know what is that? Is it from feat? Encounter? Or artifact items?
i dont care about their tankiness but damage has to be scaled down!
they got 85% damage bonus by feats, 3 at wills 1 encounter and they have a daily ready, sunburst ignoring CC immunity, astral shield is out of control and god.....fire of the gods !! 100% weapon damage for 15 sec crittable ( still aoe just saying)???? really????? that's a 1500% weapon damage if not critted; carefull attack with glyphs, piercing and plague fire is a joke compared to that.
i m not asking for a full nerf to everything like people use to do with tr but just take a look at rightneous.
i dont care about their tankiness but damage has to be scaled down!
they got 85% damage bonus by feats, 3 at wills 1 encounter and they have a daily ready, sunburst ignoring CC immunity, astral shield is out of control and god.....fire of the gods !! 100% weapon damage for 15 sec crittable ( still aoe just saying)???? really????? that's a 1500% weapon damage if not critted; carefull attack with glyphs, piercing and plague fire is a joke compared to that.
i m not asking for a full nerf to everything like people use to do with tr but just take a look at rightneous.
Fire of the Gods... Man, among all autoproc bs this is the worst. It ticks for ~1500 average per tick like twice a seconds passively burning you down. I see every DPS DC playing with astral shield, healing word/sun burst and break their spirit. Stack x3 BtS to ~4 sec stun, use AS to negate all incoming damage, HW to regen or SB to troll every melee character. Trapper HR autoprocs and utility is like day and night in comparison to this.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
But if DC was 9k and u 16k u rly a super nooob, sry man but u are...
Seriously? Instead of suggesting methods to beat that you are claiming i am a ****? You have not seen the fight and i seriously doubt that with the same build you could have done any better. I agree i could time the encounters a bit better but nothing besides that. As i mentioned before all i was doing was pure dps - none interrupted our 2v1 fight for about 30 seconds - and when the enemy party came we were wiped.
I agree that trapper and combat builds are better for pvp, but i prefer underplayed trees - they do get beaten more often but they are more interesting for my personal taste - i like to search for gems in the dirt.
CC as much as possible (prioritize prones), don't let them cast astral shield.
And which class can perma-CC this tanky class consistently while avoiding their at-wills and have burst damage because of broken feats and dailies?
Don't let them cast astral shield? If I knew a method to prevent any class from casting a specific encounter, it would make life a lot easier for sure.
CC is the counter for everything, that cant be an argument.
I'm sure you know by now CC do not always work as well on all classes. It's more potent against a DC simply because:
1) DC lacks CC break
2) Deflect is not DC's natural defense.
3) Control Resist from Wisdom bonus is lackluster
4) DC has slow cast speed and is easily interrupted
I'm sure you know by now CC do not always work as well on all classes. It's more potent against a DC simply because:
1) DC lacks CC break
2) Deflect is not DC's natural defense.
3) Control Resist from Wisdom bonus is lackluster
4) DC has slow cast speed and is easily interrupted
1) 4 dodges will negate most of the incoming CC
2) It's still easy to stack 25%+ deflection
3) and other classes don't even have that
4) divine Bastion of Health is instant, Sun Burst is almost instant, Astral Shield is instant, Healing Word is semi-instant, what is slow exactly, could you specify?
DC needs only a few seconds window to dodge-cast a couple at-wills+divine BoH/HW+empowered AS (1 stack is quite enough) and for the next few seconds he's immortal with fully regenerated stamina. Then, when AS expires, the DC can be brought down, but here comes GoF proc, that heals the DC back to full. Rinse, repeat.
That said, CC is the counter, but it's not a specific one, it's applied for all classes. Right now, faithful DC is insanely hard to kill 1vs2 and even 1vs3 if those people do not coordinate and use their abilities randomly. It took ~1 min for 14-15k GS thaumaturge CW , saboteur TR, destroyer GWF and combat HR to clear my 16k faithful DC off the node. One divine BoH stored enough HP to bring me from almost death back to full.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Fire of the Gods... Man, among all autoproc bs this is the worst. It ticks for ~1500 average per tick like twice a seconds passively burning you down. I see every DPS DC playing with astral shield, healing word/sun burst and break their spirit. Stack x3 BtS to ~4 sec stun, use AS to negate all incoming damage, HW to regen or SB to troll every melee character. Trapper HR autoprocs and utility is like day and night in comparison to this.
Just look at DC encounters, they are very slowest and weakness damage encounters. Without FotG DC can't deal damage and will be die very quickly from crit Spell Storm CW, Careful Attack HR and other OP spells.
Can someone explain me the mechanics of how these new immortal clerics are made and how do you beat them? Fought one 9k gs with my 16.2 k gs archery hunter + some other 10k gs hunter couldn't bring him less then 30% of hp and then he would go back to 100% in an instant. After the third time it happened in this single battle i surrendered.
Hopefully have a TR or another Cleric with defensive gear on, that's about the best advice I can give you. Clerics are almost just as bad as TR in the imbalnce department right now, funny thing is, the developers should balance "ALL" classes around the two I just mentioned.
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
As a healer based DC, though a different style than GoF user, Its not hard to survive **** near everything anyone sends at you. Tanking the hits from any class but a CW is a cake walk, but we have one sever disadvantage in this strength. While tanking the hits so well, we generally dont do **** for dmg. Yes we can handle all the dmg you can dish, but we generally dont give any in return.
I personally use Divine Glow, Bastion of Health and Healing Word. But I'm also a HoT DC, not an emergency heals DC. I'm probably just as potent, if not more than my Instaheal bretheren, but my heals take time to be fully functional, also givng me the advantage of tossing a heal before combat, or even mid combat on someone full healt, since when they do take dmg, it will start ticking.
But again, even though I cant tank 3-4 people at once if I dodge, heal and attack properly, I very likely wont kill anyone of them, and eventually one of them will catch a mistake on my end, and I'm toast. Because as it was said before, CC and a CW is the bane of a DC right now. One choke, freeze, stun, prone or hold, and a DC can kiss their heals good bye.
So, if you want to kill me, stun me. Be warned that a TR smoke bomb has a full second delay till I get stuned, and I can dodge out easily, but a GWF stun seems to ignore dodges. I have been mid dodge and caught by a GWF and stunned. So there is your tactic. TR, CW, or GWF are best suited to kill a good healer DC.
Just fight a good dc player, his name is start with moonshadow. When i use shocking execution on him, he blocked! !! Are there anyone know what is that? Is it from feat? Encounter? Or artifact items?
I think that's a high level paragon class feature that blocks an attack every 40 seconds. Can't tell you the exact name, I'm not using it myself.
Just fight a good dc player, his name is start with moonshadow. When i use shocking execution on him, he blocked! !! Are there anyone know what is that? Is it from feat? Encounter? Or artifact items?
It's Prophetic Action. PA-Seeing into the future, you are able to shield all damage from one attack every 40 seconds.
Damage definitely needs to be turned down. However I see no problem with the healing. DCs are definitely far from unkillable and I'll post a link to prove it. Someone said that Gift of Faith counts the previous Gift of Faith as a heal. However I don't see that happening on my DC. If I heal from 45% to max. And get a 100k heal, then my next Gift of Faith Should give me a 50k heal + whatever other healing I've done and the one following should give me 25k + whatever other healing. However this is not the case.
Healing on DC does not need to be turned down, more like skill level on pugs needs to be turned up. Renegades with Chilling Presence and Storm Spell make putty out of the so called unkillable/ immortal DC. To the OP, your class was not made to kill DCs. When I'm on my HR I leave the DC alone unless my entire team is zerging for a fast clear on 2. CWs with repel are made for killing DCs, TRs are made for killing DCs, and any 2 comp is made for killing DC AS LONG AS YOU CAN GET THEM OUT OF A SHIELD OR STUN THEM SO THEY CANT GET EMPOWRRED STACKS.
On a side note, a good dps DC can solo any class except for TR. Even 1v2 with ease. That astral shield + high heals + high dps makes them way too broken.
0
kacsaneverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
On a side note, a good dps DC can solo any class except for TR. Even 1v2 with ease. That astral shield + high heals + high dps makes them way too broken.
On another side note, please stop mixing the feat trees. The dps DC has no high heals, especially on her/himself. DPS tree is all about dps. Heal tree is for high clutch/"self" generated heals but low DPS. HOT tree is for buffing/HOTing, but still low DPS. No DC can have all of them b/c the feats really matter are T3+ (mostly the capstone). Just to note, it is correct and well designed. On the other hand there are still bugs need to be fixed. Condemning Gaze in its state is a big problem in PvP I think. It disperses to nearby enemies on activation. It is nice in PvE since we are all allies (helps everyone) but in PvP I think it is a non WAI advantage.
There are others I already reported: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?812711-DC-encounter-Empowered-Break-the-Spirit-does-not-increase-the-caster-s-damage
On another side note, please stop mixing the feat trees. The dps DC has no high heals, especially on her/himself. DPS tree is all about dps. Heal tree is for high clutch/"self" generated heals but low DPS. HOT tree is for buffing/HOTing, but still low DPS. No DC can have all of them b/c the feats really matter are T3+ (mostly the capstone). Just to note, it is correct and well designed. On the other hand there are still bugs need to be fixed. Condemning Gaze in its state is a big problem in PvP I think. It disperses to nearby enemies on activation. It is nice in PvE since we are all allies (helps everyone) but in PvP I think it is a non WAI advantage.
There are others I already reported: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?812711-DC-encounter-Empowered-Break-the-Spirit-does-not-increase-the-caster-s-damage
No, I'm not mixing things up. Their heals are not as huge as faithful DC's but still comparable to that of a mod 4 HR while damage is as strong as CW's. They should not have both.
Healing on DC does not need to be turned down, more like skill level on pugs needs to be turned up. Renegades with Chilling Presence and Storm Spell make putty out of the so called unkillable/ immortal DC. To the OP, your class was not made to kill DCs. When I'm on my HR I leave the DC alone unless my entire team is zerging for a fast clear on 2. CWs with repel are made for killing DCs, TRs are made for killing DCs, and any 2 comp is made for killing DC AS LONG AS YOU CAN GET THEM OUT OF A SHIELD OR STUN THEM SO THEY CANT GET EMPOWRRED STACKS.
In you option what are hrs designed to kill besides, gwf and sw as they are currently nerfed to the ground?
Amen man. With my HR (Trapper) I can handle some CWs if Forest Ghost is up, Guardian Fighters, and in rare cases I can handle TRs if they screw up. It's really fun, high risk but at the same time high reward. However unlike a certain TR says, HRs are a long way from overpowered right now...
there is no way to kill a dps dc well geared without being an executioner TR landing 50k+ shocking execution.
maybe a saboteur TR can do it sometimes based on lucky shocking execution multiplier but otherwise no, its not possible.
i mean on a node fighting.
a cw critting 50k+ from a pillar is not my idea of fighting
0
babumachadoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited January 2015
The DC and TR are broken, and again, every time comes a new module, always comes a broken class! It´s sad!
Frida Kahlo CW
Mama GWF
Madeleine TR
Björk HR
Édith Piaf DC
B.B.King GF
Malévola SW
Comments
I would be more in favor of putting a cap on the amount of delayed healing that can be stored, or having the stored heals gradually degrade over time. The problem with an internal cooldown is that it would negate the ability to dish out more powerful heals on allies that are low on health (and trigger gift of faith as soon as they get healed), which is what the build is supposed to be about.
Hmm just want to ask you, what is your advice when there is 2 dcs in the mid? Bring 4 guys to fight them? There is 2 nodes more, and 1 guy left...
Also one more thing: DC is not only making super tanky himself, but also ppl around him, so unless you have another dc in ur team fightin next to u, hes friend well burn u before u get to drop dcs hp below 50% (dc+cw make such a sweet couple lately...)
GWF, GF, or CW to knock them off the node, lock them down, and then kill them.
How long does it take against 2 dcs, and how many ppl you need?
The ICD would be personal for each target you heal, not on the capstone itself.
But if DC was 9k and u 16k u rly a super nooob, sry man but u are...
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Perhaps the buff's duration would be reset by an additional ability stack being added, this would keep the cleric themselves the same strength but lower the broken nature of players with the buff going wherever they want.
ICD would be a stronger fix I agree but I also tend to look for other options myself before considering ICD, Usually if something needs an ICD it's probably too strong by nature and should have been implemented differently and often it will make little difference in PvP (Eye of the Storm) for instance. Most things in this game could be designed better and not have ICD.
Hmm, that means you would only get one fat heal on your ally before entering cooldown, so you'd have to make it count. It would sure calm down the healing fest a bit, sort of like an extra healing depression. My question then is what do we do with the health that would have been stored, does it transform back into heal over time, as if you didn't have the capstone when healing targets under cooldown? Does it get stored but not distributed until the end of the cooldown? Does it vanish into thin air?
Also, how long of a cooldown are we talking about? A shorter one that has a chance of expiring during prolonged combat, or something more in line with armor enchant in the 30-60 second range?
From my point of view it would work this way: GoF healing is stored on a target and then expires when the target drops low on health. Then, GoF proc goes on CD, but HP keeps being stored, the buff itself just can't proc until the CD is over.
Regarding ICD duration, I think 5-10 seconds would be reasonable.
Another problem I see is dps DC dishing out dps comparable to CWs yet much more tankier + able to support team with heals, area buffs. What the fruit is that?
Just fight a good dc player, his name is start with moonshadow. When i use shocking execution on him, he blocked! !! Are there anyone know what is that? Is it from feat? Encounter? Or artifact items?
they got 85% damage bonus by feats, 3 at wills 1 encounter and they have a daily ready, sunburst ignoring CC immunity, astral shield is out of control and god.....fire of the gods !! 100% weapon damage for 15 sec crittable ( still aoe just saying)???? really????? that's a 1500% weapon damage if not critted; carefull attack with glyphs, piercing and plague fire is a joke compared to that.
i m not asking for a full nerf to everything like people use to do with tr but just take a look at rightneous.
Fire of the Gods... Man, among all autoproc bs this is the worst. It ticks for ~1500 average per tick like twice a seconds passively burning you down. I see every DPS DC playing with astral shield, healing word/sun burst and break their spirit. Stack x3 BtS to ~4 sec stun, use AS to negate all incoming damage, HW to regen or SB to troll every melee character. Trapper HR autoprocs and utility is like day and night in comparison to this.
I agree that trapper and combat builds are better for pvp, but i prefer underplayed trees - they do get beaten more often but they are more interesting for my personal taste - i like to search for gems in the dirt.
And which class can perma-CC this tanky class consistently while avoiding their at-wills and have burst damage because of broken feats and dailies?
Don't let them cast astral shield? If I knew a method to prevent any class from casting a specific encounter, it would make life a lot easier for sure.
I'm sure you know by now CC do not always work as well on all classes. It's more potent against a DC simply because:
1) DC lacks CC break
2) Deflect is not DC's natural defense.
3) Control Resist from Wisdom bonus is lackluster
4) DC has slow cast speed and is easily interrupted
1) 4 dodges will negate most of the incoming CC
2) It's still easy to stack 25%+ deflection
3) and other classes don't even have that
4) divine Bastion of Health is instant, Sun Burst is almost instant, Astral Shield is instant, Healing Word is semi-instant, what is slow exactly, could you specify?
DC needs only a few seconds window to dodge-cast a couple at-wills+divine BoH/HW+empowered AS (1 stack is quite enough) and for the next few seconds he's immortal with fully regenerated stamina. Then, when AS expires, the DC can be brought down, but here comes GoF proc, that heals the DC back to full. Rinse, repeat.
That said, CC is the counter, but it's not a specific one, it's applied for all classes. Right now, faithful DC is insanely hard to kill 1vs2 and even 1vs3 if those people do not coordinate and use their abilities randomly. It took ~1 min for 14-15k GS thaumaturge CW , saboteur TR, destroyer GWF and combat HR to clear my 16k faithful DC off the node. One divine BoH stored enough HP to bring me from almost death back to full.
Hopefully have a TR or another Cleric with defensive gear on, that's about the best advice I can give you. Clerics are almost just as bad as TR in the imbalnce department right now, funny thing is, the developers should balance "ALL" classes around the two I just mentioned.
-Kymos
I personally use Divine Glow, Bastion of Health and Healing Word. But I'm also a HoT DC, not an emergency heals DC. I'm probably just as potent, if not more than my Instaheal bretheren, but my heals take time to be fully functional, also givng me the advantage of tossing a heal before combat, or even mid combat on someone full healt, since when they do take dmg, it will start ticking.
But again, even though I cant tank 3-4 people at once if I dodge, heal and attack properly, I very likely wont kill anyone of them, and eventually one of them will catch a mistake on my end, and I'm toast. Because as it was said before, CC and a CW is the bane of a DC right now. One choke, freeze, stun, prone or hold, and a DC can kiss their heals good bye.
So, if you want to kill me, stun me. Be warned that a TR smoke bomb has a full second delay till I get stuned, and I can dodge out easily, but a GWF stun seems to ignore dodges. I have been mid dodge and caught by a GWF and stunned. So there is your tactic. TR, CW, or GWF are best suited to kill a good healer DC.
It's Prophetic Action. PA-Seeing into the future, you are able to shield all damage from one attack every 40 seconds.
Healing on DC does not need to be turned down, more like skill level on pugs needs to be turned up. Renegades with Chilling Presence and Storm Spell make putty out of the so called unkillable/ immortal DC. To the OP, your class was not made to kill DCs. When I'm on my HR I leave the DC alone unless my entire team is zerging for a fast clear on 2. CWs with repel are made for killing DCs, TRs are made for killing DCs, and any 2 comp is made for killing DC AS LONG AS YOU CAN GET THEM OUT OF A SHIELD OR STUN THEM SO THEY CANT GET EMPOWRRED STACKS.
http://youtu.be/Co8ev20rxak
On another side note, please stop mixing the feat trees. The dps DC has no high heals, especially on her/himself. DPS tree is all about dps. Heal tree is for high clutch/"self" generated heals but low DPS. HOT tree is for buffing/HOTing, but still low DPS. No DC can have all of them b/c the feats really matter are T3+ (mostly the capstone). Just to note, it is correct and well designed. On the other hand there are still bugs need to be fixed. Condemning Gaze in its state is a big problem in PvP I think. It disperses to nearby enemies on activation. It is nice in PvE since we are all allies (helps everyone) but in PvP I think it is a non WAI advantage.
There are others I already reported: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?812711-DC-encounter-Empowered-Break-the-Spirit-does-not-increase-the-caster-s-damage
No, I'm not mixing things up. Their heals are not as huge as faithful DC's but still comparable to that of a mod 4 HR while damage is as strong as CW's. They should not have both.
Amen man. With my HR (Trapper) I can handle some CWs if Forest Ghost is up, Guardian Fighters, and in rare cases I can handle TRs if they screw up. It's really fun, high risk but at the same time high reward. However unlike a certain TR says, HRs are a long way from overpowered right now...
maybe a saboteur TR can do it sometimes based on lucky shocking execution multiplier but otherwise no, its not possible.
i mean on a node fighting.
a cw critting 50k+ from a pillar is not my idea of fighting
Mama GWF
Madeleine TR
Björk HR
Édith Piaf DC
B.B.King GF
Malévola SW