22k Scoundrel TR just hit me with 21k Dazing Strike. Wasn't Takedown nerfed because it dealt too much damage for a CC encounter?
Well i'm a 20k scoundrel and i havent managed to deal that big dazing strikes top 15k i think.
Those big hits don't occur always but they are often cause all it takes is Scoundrels capstone to proc with DazingStrike.
That's +25%dmg from capstone +25%dmg cause the target is dazed.Do that from stealth with a P.Vorpal and you get a Critical +50%dmg from vorpal +minimum 25%combat advantage. There you go, a huge Dazing Strike.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited December 2014
Scoundrels get bonus damage when they attack a controlled target...
If you want to hit big damage just shadow strike to daze then try dazing strike from stealth
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Tr' are the most disqusting no skill needed class. a desize to NW.
Not even they have the most OP immunity/dodge skills/escape/delay type skills :
- dodge roll with big travel betwhen it
-ITC immune to cc
-Stealth refill with shadow strike
Smoke bomb and Dazing strike with outrageous CC duration
Feats that grants extra 4 seconds daze on hit
But the damage it self.
At wills that strikes a player with 50% damage rezistance..and 25 % tenacity with 3000-7000 damage.
Encounters with tones of damage , Permanent Crit Inside stealth , lashing blade.
And the *best* one : Shocking execution that ignores all DR ,tenacity , everything.
Or we talk about how ss refills ur stealth even when the enemy dodges it( same with the sabo capstone).
And how is Se dodgeable when you daze ur target first?
Also if u get cought by an Trapper HR, you are just bad or doesnt know how trapper works since 99% of the time those ''insane'' roots bug out when you are in stealth.
This is confusing to me. Several people from Essence of Aggression stated they know how TRs can be cleared by majority of the classes. Other PVP guilds however allude to it being almost an impossibility. Differing opinions it seems like. I respect all these highly skilled players and so for them to have vastly different opinions on the TR leads me to believe one party is misinformed/misleading us.
I still don't know how to consistently dodge the daze and not get one-shotted but perhaps someone can shine light upon this.
So is TR consistently clearable if you "learn to play" the mechanics as some Essence of Aggression folks stated? Or is the TR too overpowered that just breaks the game as people from other guilds have (Absolute, Chocolate Shoppe)
This is confusing to me. Several people from Essence of Aggression stated they know how TRs can be cleared by majority of the classes. Other PVP guilds however allude to it being almost an impossibility. Differing opinions it seems like. I respect all these highly skilled players and so for them to have vastly different opinions on the TR leads me to believe one party is misinformed/misleading us.
I still don't know how to consistently dodge the daze and not get one-shotted but perhaps someone can shine light upon this.
So is TR consistently clearable if you "learn to play" the mechanics as some Essence of Aggression folks stated? Or is the TR too overpowered that just breaks the game as people from other guilds have (Absolute, Chocolate Shoppe)
i think there is truth in both statements.
There are many exploits in the game that can make almost any class kill the TR , but can those ppl with those buids face any type of tr or is it just good lets say against a Saboteur but fails against a Scoundrel?
Also, feats that don't work as intended and make a difference with focus on the exploit with BiS gear, do not apply for the majority of people.
There is a way for GWF/GF/DPS DC/HR(trapper or even a good combat one)/CW(hard but possible) to kill TR.
There is even a way for SW to do it tho it is rare and ITC takes away their chance most times.
I will not go into more details cause that would be advertising an exploit in some occasions.
Still, TR is more OP. That's because most of the exploits there are to counter him are situational, or the styles of play needed can only work in the hands of exceptional players that will perform flawlessly.
So i guess there is truth in both statements. One thing is for sure. You need 101% of your skills to counter a good TR. He will only use 50% of his to counter you.
=
There is a way for GWF/GF/DPS DC/HR(trapper or even a good combat one)/CW(hard but possible) to kill TR.
There is even a way for SW to do it tho it is rare and ITC takes away their chance most times.
I will not go into more details cause that would be advertising an exploit in some occasions.
=
Are you saying people who are able to clear TRs have been exploiting?
Anyways, is there a rotation from a class that is non-exploit to solve the TR problem?
The current DC is really more OP than any TR. Check out the nerfs that have already been made to the TR in patch notes as well.
well who said it is happy with the DC or trapper HR?
but first problem first, its the TR.
after TR fix to get him in line with other classes
we will talk about
DC/ HR dots.
M3 HR had pathetic damage. If you're looking for someone with that kind of survivability, check some faithful DCs. Well played DC can keep even more players busy, once TR is fixed, they'll become another target.
Nerf requests after TR's fixed will be:
- faithful DC;
- trapper HR;
- DPS DC.
LE: like i said, yes there needs to be fixes for HR too aswell for DC.
but first problem is the TR.
and yes problem will appear everytime, reason?
POWER CREEP.
there are classes already that go for DPS, that damage isn't tested it out, thats why we have SE that can kill in one shot or ICE KNIFE.
there needs to be done a balance from TOP tier to bottom tier. so that we would have a limit on the DPS of each class.
agreed. Nerf Trs first and then fix every single thing that's broken in other classes. cause i tell you some times the only reason why TRs kill HRs and DCs is because of the broken feats. If only TRs get fixed then you have just other classes sitting on the throne.
DC are easyer to kill, just need to Cc then for a sec and it's done, also with my SW i dont realy need much effort to kill then with my daily+dot+killing flames. TR's are a pain and hit anything for 20~30k per stryke.
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited December 2014
Just PRACTICE!
Hahahaha sorry.
There is such a multitude of things it's like the Devs giving us the finger.
I think perhaps I could even deal with all of the TR broken things, IF everytime I soulforged from a TR, I wasn't stunned and couldn't move/cast and die a 2nd time.
I am playing low level game PVP, mid game pvp, and end game BIS Pvp... and more than ever I have come to the conclusion that the Devs hate pvp.
I hear some BIS TR say that they "might" die a couple times in a match 2v1 now, its so unfair......the life of a TR is so hard...
Maybe it is time to change the way of thought for the past 19 months on the same 2 maps...and a TR shouldn't be used to backcap and expect to never die when 2v1 or even 3v1. I have seen some pres recently use some pretty effective TR strats at mid, or shadowing certain players, instead of sticking the TR in the same place that he has been for 19 months.
Maybe it is time to change the way of thought for the past 19 months on the same 2 maps...and a TR shouldn't be used to backcap and expect to never die when 2v1 or even 3v1. I have seen some pres recently use some pretty effective TR strats at mid, or shadowing certain players, instead of sticking the TR in the same place that he has been for 19 months.
+1. Perception and evolution.
every tr that wined over the stealth nerf is stucked to that 19month old annoying idea.
I think once SE respects tenacity/DR, TR will be balanced, as long as SE still hits hard. I would have preferred this fix over the 2s reveal.
TR at the moment is incredibly strong. It's a class that can win 1v1 99% of the time, when gear and experience are equal. It can also hold 1v2 longer than just about any other class. It's a bit much, and I think toning down SE a little will go a long way to establishing balance.
Scurvy, the thing is, it's not necessarily practice, it's the fact you have to rely on the TR actually making a mistake in order to kill them. A decent TR isn't going to make a lot of mistakes and being able to exploit the 1s timeframe where they actually do can be quite hard in some situations. Practice isn't going to make that much easier because you're still relying on the TR to make mistakes. There's ways where you can force them to make more mistakes but again, they still have so many advantages and can afford to make some mistakes whereas you don't even have the chance to make mistakes most times because you're already dead.
How about nerfing Tr's stealth so they can not go perma, and take their crit sev, and 100% crit from stealth, oh yeaah nerf shocing ex too + their AP gain and instead of those nerfs give them more BS so all of these QQers can oneshot any Tr and be happy ''instead of being creative to try new builds on their stupid chars''
they just have too many tools, ofc there are different builds and they usually dont have all of these, but still a few too many advantages
insane burst damage + piercing damage
daze - broken cc
perfect defense and gap closer - invisibility(ok there is a bug-ish thing that allows to focus them in stealth, but you still need to see them at some time, and when you do you are probably dead or close to that)
when that fails itc + a bunch of long dodges and stupid deflect severity
to fix this mess
make stealth to break on any attack and unable to reenter stealth while in combat(except some abilities, maybe smoke, maybe itc etc.)
remove stealth drain making stealth last as long as u want if you dont attack
remove piercing damage from game
fix daze to work with deflect, tenacity and whatever it ignores, or change other cc to work like daze
reduce pvp damage for all classes(nerf regeneration so were not thrown back at start of mod2) the damage is too high, there are too many ways to instagib ppl and it sucks if fight depends on single lucky crit instead of skill, less damage = more hits needed = less power to RNG
buff tr pve damage if necessary to compensate for losing damage from stealth
they just have too many tools, ofc there are different builds and they usually dont have all of these, but still a few too many advantages
insane burst damage + piercing damage
daze - broken cc
perfect defense and gap closer - invisibility(ok there is a bug-ish thing that allows to focus them in stealth, but you still need to see them at some time, and when you do you are probably dead or close to that)
when that fails itc + a bunch of long dodges and stupid deflect severity
to fix this mess
make stealth to break on any attack and unable to reenter stealth while in combat(except some abilities, maybe smoke, maybe itc etc.)
remove stealth drain making stealth last as long as u want if you dont attack
remove piercing damage from game
fix daze to work with deflect, tenacity and whatever it ignores, or change other cc to work like daze
reduce pvp damage for all classes(nerf regeneration so were not thrown back at start of mod2) the damage is too high, there are too many ways to instagib ppl and it sucks if fight depends on single lucky crit instead of skill, less damage = more hits needed = less power to RNG
buff tr pve damage if necessary to compensate for losing damage from stealth
then check what other classes need adjusting
this is what i was proposing as well.
but you forgot the dodges fix .trs can dodge way to much so they just spam smoke bomb,daze itc and dodge
i saw some scoundrelll tr tank 4 people out of stealth with dodges and smoke bomb
and this broken 70% deflect from scoundrell tree with 90% severity
should not be possible its game breaking.
make stealth to break on any attack and unable to reenter stealth while in combat(except some abilities, maybe smoke, maybe itc etc.)
remove stealth drain making stealth last as long as u want if you dont attack
remove piercing damage from game
fix daze to work with deflect, tenacity and whatever it ignores, or change other cc to work like daze
reduce pvp damage for all classes(nerf regeneration so were not thrown back at start of mod2) the damage is too high, there are too many ways to instagib ppl and it sucks if fight depends on single lucky crit instead of skill, less damage = more hits needed = less power to RNG
buff tr pve damage if necessary to compensate for losing damage from stealth
then check what other classes need adjusting
1) Agree
2) Agree
3) Agree
4) Agree
5) Agree - The easiest way to do this would be double the value of "damage resist" from tenacity while leaving crit damage and CC the same. So instead of a 1:1:1 ratio its a 2:1:1 ratio. So adding 1% crit/CC resist you add 2% damage reduction.
5) Regen Nerf - I think HD already does this, however if needed you could even remove regen altogether while in combat. Regen would only work outside combat as a self heal. Better would be that Regen works like lifesteal - meaning take 10k damage with 10% regen, you heal 1k. Then give every character an innate "regen" outside of combat, or heck, make THAT regen outside combat work like current regen.
- All this meaning inside combat regen works like lifesteal but with damage taken is healed. Outside combat, regen works as it currently does.
6) Dont have a solution for this. You could potentially change some feats around to give more damage.
make stealth to break on any attack and unable to reenter stealth while in combat(except some abilities, maybe smoke, maybe itc etc.)
remove stealth drain making stealth last as long as u want if you dont attack
remove piercing damage from game
fix daze to work with deflect, tenacity and whatever it ignores, or change other cc to work like daze
reduce pvp damage for all classes(nerf regeneration so were not thrown back at start of mod2) the damage is too high, there are too many ways to instagib ppl and it sucks if fight depends on single lucky crit instead of skill, less damage = more hits needed = less power to RNG
buff tr pve damage if necessary to compensate for losing damage from stealth
then check what other classes need adjusting
)No to WoW rogues.
)No to WoW rogues.
)Yes, piercing damage needs to go in PvP.
)No CC should be subject to an RNG mechanic like deflection to reduce its duration. Tenacity and Control resist should be it. If something has too long of a CC duration it should be changed or Control Resist's value should be improved. Deflecting CC duration is garbage short bus gameplay.
)No, PvP was best before Tenacity was implemented, one mistake and you loose. This game has become a mess of bad players getting away with bad choices. Removing the cheesy no skill feats and buggy abilities and fixing dodge immunity will be far more effective. Make the players work for their damage and quit this Proc free damage garbage.
)Don't PvE so no comment.
they just have too many tools, ofc there are different builds and they usually dont have all of these, but still a few too many advantages
insane burst damage + piercing damage
daze - broken cc
perfect defense and gap closer - invisibility(ok there is a bug-ish thing that allows to focus them in stealth, but you still need to see them at some time, and when you do you are probably dead or close to that)
when that fails itc + a bunch of long dodges and stupid deflect severity
to fix this mess
make stealth to break on any attack and unable to reenter stealth while in combat(except some abilities, maybe smoke, maybe itc etc.)
remove stealth drain making stealth last as long as u want if you dont attack
remove piercing damage from game
fix daze to work with deflect, tenacity and whatever it ignores, or change other cc to work like daze
reduce pvp damage for all classes(nerf regeneration so were not thrown back at start of mod2) the damage is too high, there are too many ways to instagib ppl and it sucks if fight depends on single lucky crit instead of skill, less damage = more hits needed = less power to RNG
buff tr pve damage if necessary to compensate for losing damage from stealth
)No to WoW rogues.
)No to WoW rogues.
)Yes, piercing damage needs to go in PvP.
)No CC should be subject to an RNG mechanic like deflection to reduce its duration. Tenacity and Control resist should be it. If something has too long of a CC duration it should be changed or Control Resist's value should be improved. Deflecting CC duration is garbage short bus gameplay.
)No, PvP was best before Tenacity was implemented, one mistake and you loose. This game has become a mess of bad players getting away with bad choices. Removing the cheesy no skill feats and buggy abilities and fixing dodge immunity will be far more effective. Make the players work for their damage and quit this Proc free damage garbage.
)Don't PvE so no comment.
wow rogues are much better choice and easier to balance than attacking from invisibility bs that we have here
its not an fps, 1hots are the worst way of pvp in an mmorpg, in fps it takes skill and serious drawbacks on a weapon to be able to oneshot somebody, thats why its ok, in mmorpg theres RNG crits/deflect, and theres not as much skill required to land most attacks, i doubt many ppl would play pvp if everybody would 1shot everybody, before tenacity we had 2x less stats in game, and even then pvp was ****
make stealth to break on any attack and unable to reenter stealth while in combat(except some abilities, maybe smoke, maybe itc etc.)
remove stealth drain making stealth last as long as u want if you dont attack
remove piercing damage from game
fix daze to work with deflect, tenacity and whatever it ignores, or change other cc to work like daze
reduce pvp damage for all classes(nerf regeneration so were not thrown back at start of mod2) the damage is too high, there are too many ways to instagib ppl and it sucks if fight depends on single lucky crit instead of skill, less damage = more hits needed = less power to RNG
buff tr pve damage if necessary to compensate for losing damage from stealth
then check what other classes need adjusting
Again I re-quote this because its so true.
Stealth should last forever. Causing damage brings you out of stealth.
Piercing damage should be CHANGED to: Attacks hit with 100% ARP. I am fine with it ignoring defense if thats the desired intent, but it should not ignore deflect, should not bypass tenacity and should NOT bypass countless other mechanics that it currently does because of the way its coded. (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?818771-Shocking-Execution-Coded-wrong)
For reducing pvp damage, the only way is to increase tenacity. Right now it offers 1:1:1% increases for CC resist, damage, and critical severity from other players. They need to change its buffs to: 2:1:1 meaning for every 'current' value you bump it up 1%, it increases by 2% for damage.
Base Tenacity would be 10% less damage from players, 10% CC resist from players and 10% less crit damage. Adding 10% MORE tenacity would put you at 30% less damage from players (Added tenacity is 2:1:1), 20% CC resist and 20% less crit damage.
Going to 30% tenacity would be: 50% less damage from players, 30% CC resist from players and 30% less crit damage.
This would fix ALOT of the issues in PVP. Then the issue would be regen and self-healing. 2 ideas:
1) Remove regen altogether during combat. Buff its benefit outside of combat (back to its initial stat perhaps?)
2) Regen changed to act as a lifesteal mechanic, returning a % of damage received while in combat, and acts the same outside combat.
Now you effectively gave all classes much more survivability and nerfed self healing so classes can take 2+ encounter rotations and still live, but will effectively be "whittled" down during combat.
Piercing damage should be CHANGED to: Attacks hit with 100% ARP. I am fine with it ignoring defense if thats the desired intent, but it should not ignore deflect, should not bypass tenacity and should NOT bypass countless other mechanics that it currently does because of the way its coded. (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?818771-Shocking-Execution-Coded-wrong)
afaik piercing works the way it does is for HR - it ignores everything so it doesnt get reduced 2x(first on original hit that gets reduced by all DR and 2nd time on the 40% proc), ofc they fd up and it did proc before reduction not after, but in that case piercing should ignore tenacity(cause the original hit that is base for piercing hit already got reduced)
they seriously fd up when they started pushing piercing everywhere
2 ideas:
1) Remove regen altogether during combat. Buff its benefit outside of combat (back to its initial stat perhaps?)
2) Regen changed to act as a lifesteal mechanic, returning a % of damage received while in combat, and acts the same outside combat.
N.
^^^
I really don't get it how you and 2-3 others came to the conclusion that the current problem in pvp is regen.It is simply out of my mind.
Regen only works at 50% under healing depression.
Morew nerf?
Hey what about lifesteal?Lifesteal makes HRs immortal not regen.
But all you advocate for regen nerf(3 people) all play toons based on lifesteal.And 90% of the Trs has lifesteal on it not regen.
Regen nerf will hit the class that is underperforming in current meta the most:The GF.Since GF lucks offensive power to use lifesteal effectivelly.Not only that..it will leave the current op classes that 99% of the builds have invested in lifesteal intact.This is absurd!!!
Wake up guys.
And what other coinsidense:Another suggestion from the same 3 "experts".Buff deflect!!lol
What really needs to be done in pvp is:Make deflect working as intended,meaning only to deflect and not reduce cc.What deflect has to do with cc?
Make deflect stacking to have the same hard diminishing returns as defence.If you want things to be equal.
Introduce anti deflect stat.
Improve tenacity by an extra 50%.
Nerf vorpal.
Reduce the stun and the dazes of the Tr class to 50% AS ALREADY HAPPENS WITH ALL OTHER CLASSES.
Make CWs no longer ignore 66% of tenacity for cc purposes.No more stalking on pylars from 90feet away and killing toons in secs.
wow rogues are much better choice and easier to balance than attacking from invisibility bs that we have here
its not an fps, 1hots are the worst way of pvp in an mmorpg, in fps it takes skill and serious drawbacks on a weapon to be able to oneshot somebody, thats why its ok, in mmorpg theres RNG crits/deflect, and theres not as much skill required to land most attacks, i doubt many ppl would play pvp if everybody would 1shot everybody, before tenacity we had 2x less stats in game, and even then pvp was ****
WoW rogues are a much easier choice yes but not a better choice.
I've stated this numerous times before in other posts... The MAIN reason people are having such a hard time catching a rogue is Dodge, there used to be a small window where you could connect an attack between dodge rolls and that window has diminished to almost nothing.
"Some" of the class mechanics in this game are the main reason I ever took interest in it, Guard ( The way it used to work ) was so refreshing.. finally someone got using a shield correctly, I thought. Active blocking and no more of that garbage %chance to block. Stealth is the same way, a meter to manage and play with during combat without relying on some predictable and staple CD that all rogues will end up using. The changes to stealth you present will do nothing but to cut the class into one playstyle.
Comparing this game to a shooter isn't far off, this game is an Action MMO and has twitch mechanics for a reason, why is it easy to accept the defensive shooter aspect but not the offensive? No you don't have to aim but that's why dodge gives immunity instead of just mobility.
I still must disagree, Gtene aside, PvP was a lot more fun before Tenacity and yes there are more stats, more stats to do the work for you thanks to Tenacity.
Most of this argument is pointless anyways, Tenacity isn't going anywhere and TR stealth mechanic won't be changed.
I disagree. Piercing damage is the only thing saboteurs have, remove it, and that tree won't offer anything but one more regen encounter which is bugged and fills only 99% of the stealth bar if you take damage.
Executioner is mostly ok, they have only one broken feat which gives them 25% arp while stealthed and bugged capstone that may stack multiple times. Oneshots come mostly from First strike, without that class feature it's hard to exceed 25k LB with an average TR of 15-17k GS and greater vorpal.
Scoundrel, on the other side, gives zero counterplay. Deft Strike is depressing, once you're hit, you're dead unless you're TR or GWF, but GWF only delays inevitable. And saying that this particular path is not built around stealth is just misconception, because scoundrel TRs take two CC encounters to maximize their CC potential. You can build perma using any tree, some are just better for that purpose.
I realize that Dazing Strike -> CoS+Piercing hits hard, I feel your pain when you get your HP bar reduced by 75% in one hit, but there's nothing worse then being unable to attack back nor dodge. Remember CW freeze chain from M4? Now realize that current scoundrel is the same, but they have stealth, extremely high deflection and 4 dodges.
IMO, all dazes, including dazing strike, should be halved when used on players. Or give CW's CC the same duration on players as it is on mobs, I want that 5 sec entangle to troll the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of PvP.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
i don't think he is trying to fool anyone.The biggest problem is sabotrer's Shadowy Opportunity. Then all the ridiculous feats are on the executioner path.
Scoundrel can't kill you from stealth just by throwing daggers nor 1shot you with SE. imo scoundrel is the least broken path on the TR.
Does it need a daze nerf?? imo obviously!
Scoundrel feats may work well on their own but combined with daze encounters it just get's too much.
i think the problem is on Concussive Strikes feat that procs every 5secs. till one daze is over concussive proc again, all you need to do is throw some daggers.
Smoke bombs dmg "favors" the feats.
People have problem with what they take in the face. u are a gwf you hate sabo and exe. u are cw you hate scoundrel.
Saboteurs are the most broken by far
Scoundrel needs a daze nerf
Executioner..(oh come on! just read the feats, it's a troll)
Ps: All that scoundrel daze could be fair only if tr's lacked DPS. They don't.
Of course Scoundrel is the least broken spec of TR but it still needs a nerf to dazes. Nothing more. But there we have morenthar who wants to shift the focus on other specs of the TR so he can keep his dazes untouched.
Comments
Those big hits don't occur always but they are often cause all it takes is Scoundrels capstone to proc with DazingStrike.
That's +25%dmg from capstone +25%dmg cause the target is dazed.Do that from stealth with a P.Vorpal and you get a Critical +50%dmg from vorpal +minimum 25%combat advantage. There you go, a huge Dazing Strike.
If you want to hit big damage just shadow strike to daze then try dazing strike from stealth
Not even they have the most OP immunity/dodge skills/escape/delay type skills :
- dodge roll with big travel betwhen it
-ITC immune to cc
-Stealth refill with shadow strike
Smoke bomb and Dazing strike with outrageous CC duration
Feats that grants extra 4 seconds daze on hit
But the damage it self.
At wills that strikes a player with 50% damage rezistance..and 25 % tenacity with 3000-7000 damage.
Encounters with tones of damage , Permanent Crit Inside stealth , lashing blade.
And the *best* one : Shocking execution that ignores all DR ,tenacity , everything.
It can Easy do 1 hit 50 000 hp.
So yeah..It's a TR heaven outthere.
Then are the Dc's but thats another story.
This is confusing to me. Several people from Essence of Aggression stated they know how TRs can be cleared by majority of the classes. Other PVP guilds however allude to it being almost an impossibility. Differing opinions it seems like. I respect all these highly skilled players and so for them to have vastly different opinions on the TR leads me to believe one party is misinformed/misleading us.
I still don't know how to consistently dodge the daze and not get one-shotted but perhaps someone can shine light upon this.
So is TR consistently clearable if you "learn to play" the mechanics as some Essence of Aggression folks stated? Or is the TR too overpowered that just breaks the game as people from other guilds have (Absolute, Chocolate Shoppe)
i think there is truth in both statements.
There are many exploits in the game that can make almost any class kill the TR , but can those ppl with those buids face any type of tr or is it just good lets say against a Saboteur but fails against a Scoundrel?
Also, feats that don't work as intended and make a difference with focus on the exploit with BiS gear, do not apply for the majority of people.
There is a way for GWF/GF/DPS DC/HR(trapper or even a good combat one)/CW(hard but possible) to kill TR.
There is even a way for SW to do it tho it is rare and ITC takes away their chance most times.
I will not go into more details cause that would be advertising an exploit in some occasions.
Still, TR is more OP. That's because most of the exploits there are to counter him are situational, or the styles of play needed can only work in the hands of exceptional players that will perform flawlessly.
So i guess there is truth in both statements. One thing is for sure. You need 101% of your skills to counter a good TR. He will only use 50% of his to counter you.
Are you saying people who are able to clear TRs have been exploiting?
Anyways, is there a rotation from a class that is non-exploit to solve the TR problem?
well who said it is happy with the DC or trapper HR?
but first problem first, its the TR.
after TR fix to get him in line with other classes
we will talk about
DC/ HR dots.
LE: like i said, yes there needs to be fixes for HR too aswell for DC.
but first problem is the TR.
and yes problem will appear everytime, reason?
POWER CREEP.
there are classes already that go for DPS, that damage isn't tested it out, thats why we have SE that can kill in one shot or ICE KNIFE.
there needs to be done a balance from TOP tier to bottom tier. so that we would have a limit on the DPS of each class.
Hahahaha sorry.
There is such a multitude of things it's like the Devs giving us the finger.
I think perhaps I could even deal with all of the TR broken things, IF everytime I soulforged from a TR, I wasn't stunned and couldn't move/cast and die a 2nd time.
I am playing low level game PVP, mid game pvp, and end game BIS Pvp... and more than ever I have come to the conclusion that the Devs hate pvp.
I hear some BIS TR say that they "might" die a couple times in a match 2v1 now, its so unfair......the life of a TR is so hard...
Maybe it is time to change the way of thought for the past 19 months on the same 2 maps...and a TR shouldn't be used to backcap and expect to never die when 2v1 or even 3v1. I have seen some pres recently use some pretty effective TR strats at mid, or shadowing certain players, instead of sticking the TR in the same place that he has been for 19 months.
+1. Perception and evolution.
every tr that wined over the stealth nerf is stucked to that 19month old annoying idea.
TR at the moment is incredibly strong. It's a class that can win 1v1 99% of the time, when gear and experience are equal. It can also hold 1v2 longer than just about any other class. It's a bit much, and I think toning down SE a little will go a long way to establishing balance.
insane burst damage + piercing damage
daze - broken cc
perfect defense and gap closer - invisibility(ok there is a bug-ish thing that allows to focus them in stealth, but you still need to see them at some time, and when you do you are probably dead or close to that)
when that fails itc + a bunch of long dodges and stupid deflect severity
to fix this mess
this is what i was proposing as well.
but you forgot the dodges fix .trs can dodge way to much so they just spam smoke bomb,daze itc and dodge
i saw some scoundrelll tr tank 4 people out of stealth with dodges and smoke bomb
and this broken 70% deflect from scoundrell tree with 90% severity
should not be possible its game breaking.
1) Agree
2) Agree
3) Agree
4) Agree
5) Agree - The easiest way to do this would be double the value of "damage resist" from tenacity while leaving crit damage and CC the same. So instead of a 1:1:1 ratio its a 2:1:1 ratio. So adding 1% crit/CC resist you add 2% damage reduction.
5) Regen Nerf - I think HD already does this, however if needed you could even remove regen altogether while in combat. Regen would only work outside combat as a self heal. Better would be that Regen works like lifesteal - meaning take 10k damage with 10% regen, you heal 1k. Then give every character an innate "regen" outside of combat, or heck, make THAT regen outside combat work like current regen.
- All this meaning inside combat regen works like lifesteal but with damage taken is healed. Outside combat, regen works as it currently does.
6) Dont have a solution for this. You could potentially change some feats around to give more damage.
)No to WoW rogues.
)No to WoW rogues.
)Yes, piercing damage needs to go in PvP.
)No CC should be subject to an RNG mechanic like deflection to reduce its duration. Tenacity and Control resist should be it. If something has too long of a CC duration it should be changed or Control Resist's value should be improved. Deflecting CC duration is garbage short bus gameplay.
)No, PvP was best before Tenacity was implemented, one mistake and you loose. This game has become a mess of bad players getting away with bad choices. Removing the cheesy no skill feats and buggy abilities and fixing dodge immunity will be far more effective. Make the players work for their damage and quit this Proc free damage garbage.
)Don't PvE so no comment.
I agree with these suggestions.
wow rogues are much better choice and easier to balance than attacking from invisibility bs that we have here
its not an fps, 1hots are the worst way of pvp in an mmorpg, in fps it takes skill and serious drawbacks on a weapon to be able to oneshot somebody, thats why its ok, in mmorpg theres RNG crits/deflect, and theres not as much skill required to land most attacks, i doubt many ppl would play pvp if everybody would 1shot everybody, before tenacity we had 2x less stats in game, and even then pvp was ****
Again I re-quote this because its so true.
Stealth should last forever. Causing damage brings you out of stealth.
Piercing damage should be CHANGED to: Attacks hit with 100% ARP. I am fine with it ignoring defense if thats the desired intent, but it should not ignore deflect, should not bypass tenacity and should NOT bypass countless other mechanics that it currently does because of the way its coded. (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?818771-Shocking-Execution-Coded-wrong)
For reducing pvp damage, the only way is to increase tenacity. Right now it offers 1:1:1% increases for CC resist, damage, and critical severity from other players. They need to change its buffs to: 2:1:1 meaning for every 'current' value you bump it up 1%, it increases by 2% for damage.
Base Tenacity would be 10% less damage from players, 10% CC resist from players and 10% less crit damage. Adding 10% MORE tenacity would put you at 30% less damage from players (Added tenacity is 2:1:1), 20% CC resist and 20% less crit damage.
Going to 30% tenacity would be: 50% less damage from players, 30% CC resist from players and 30% less crit damage.
This would fix ALOT of the issues in PVP. Then the issue would be regen and self-healing. 2 ideas:
1) Remove regen altogether during combat. Buff its benefit outside of combat (back to its initial stat perhaps?)
2) Regen changed to act as a lifesteal mechanic, returning a % of damage received while in combat, and acts the same outside combat.
Now you effectively gave all classes much more survivability and nerfed self healing so classes can take 2+ encounter rotations and still live, but will effectively be "whittled" down during combat.
afaik piercing works the way it does is for HR - it ignores everything so it doesnt get reduced 2x(first on original hit that gets reduced by all DR and 2nd time on the 40% proc), ofc they fd up and it did proc before reduction not after, but in that case piercing should ignore tenacity(cause the original hit that is base for piercing hit already got reduced)
they seriously fd up when they started pushing piercing everywhere
^^^
I really don't get it how you and 2-3 others came to the conclusion that the current problem in pvp is regen.It is simply out of my mind.
Regen only works at 50% under healing depression.
Morew nerf?
Hey what about lifesteal?Lifesteal makes HRs immortal not regen.
But all you advocate for regen nerf(3 people) all play toons based on lifesteal.And 90% of the Trs has lifesteal on it not regen.
Regen nerf will hit the class that is underperforming in current meta the most:The GF.Since GF lucks offensive power to use lifesteal effectivelly.Not only that..it will leave the current op classes that 99% of the builds have invested in lifesteal intact.This is absurd!!!
Wake up guys.
And what other coinsidense:Another suggestion from the same 3 "experts".Buff deflect!!lol
What really needs to be done in pvp is:Make deflect working as intended,meaning only to deflect and not reduce cc.What deflect has to do with cc?
Make deflect stacking to have the same hard diminishing returns as defence.If you want things to be equal.
Introduce anti deflect stat.
Improve tenacity by an extra 50%.
Nerf vorpal.
Reduce the stun and the dazes of the Tr class to 50% AS ALREADY HAPPENS WITH ALL OTHER CLASSES.
Make CWs no longer ignore 66% of tenacity for cc purposes.No more stalking on pylars from 90feet away and killing toons in secs.
WoW rogues are a much easier choice yes but not a better choice.
I've stated this numerous times before in other posts... The MAIN reason people are having such a hard time catching a rogue is Dodge, there used to be a small window where you could connect an attack between dodge rolls and that window has diminished to almost nothing.
"Some" of the class mechanics in this game are the main reason I ever took interest in it, Guard ( The way it used to work ) was so refreshing.. finally someone got using a shield correctly, I thought. Active blocking and no more of that garbage %chance to block. Stealth is the same way, a meter to manage and play with during combat without relying on some predictable and staple CD that all rogues will end up using. The changes to stealth you present will do nothing but to cut the class into one playstyle.
Comparing this game to a shooter isn't far off, this game is an Action MMO and has twitch mechanics for a reason, why is it easy to accept the defensive shooter aspect but not the offensive? No you don't have to aim but that's why dodge gives immunity instead of just mobility.
I still must disagree, Gtene aside, PvP was a lot more fun before Tenacity and yes there are more stats, more stats to do the work for you thanks to Tenacity.
Most of this argument is pointless anyways, Tenacity isn't going anywhere and TR stealth mechanic won't be changed.
I disagree. Piercing damage is the only thing saboteurs have, remove it, and that tree won't offer anything but one more regen encounter which is bugged and fills only 99% of the stealth bar if you take damage.
Executioner is mostly ok, they have only one broken feat which gives them 25% arp while stealthed and bugged capstone that may stack multiple times. Oneshots come mostly from First strike, without that class feature it's hard to exceed 25k LB with an average TR of 15-17k GS and greater vorpal.
Scoundrel, on the other side, gives zero counterplay. Deft Strike is depressing, once you're hit, you're dead unless you're TR or GWF, but GWF only delays inevitable. And saying that this particular path is not built around stealth is just misconception, because scoundrel TRs take two CC encounters to maximize their CC potential. You can build perma using any tree, some are just better for that purpose.
I realize that Dazing Strike -> CoS+Piercing hits hard, I feel your pain when you get your HP bar reduced by 75% in one hit, but there's nothing worse then being unable to attack back nor dodge. Remember CW freeze chain from M4? Now realize that current scoundrel is the same, but they have stealth, extremely high deflection and 4 dodges.
IMO, all dazes, including dazing strike, should be halved when used on players. Or give CW's CC the same duration on players as it is on mobs, I want that 5 sec entangle to troll the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of PvP.
Of course Scoundrel is the least broken spec of TR but it still needs a nerf to dazes. Nothing more. But there we have morenthar who wants to shift the focus on other specs of the TR so he can keep his dazes untouched.