-In mid node a tr gets his daily up rly fast, every 20-30 sec.
-Lashing blade can and does 1 shot even tanks, in 1 match i got 18 consecutive deaths only by that.
-After LB pop ITC go bk stealth and wait for CDs to recharge... i've seen this so many times is not even funny
-LB+SE for 2 targets and GG stealth is bk and job is done.
Yes. Please tell your TR to stay at the mid-node if your team ever meets me. I'll be on your back-node.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
1) TRs get 100% critical chance during stealth. No other class gets 100% critical save CW's only during EoS which is brief and not easily timed (read takes skill). All other classes have to spec into critical strike for this effect.
Yes but lose our stealth immidiatly if you dont use GC and you are now visible when you hit a enemy. Without stealth with 2826 crit (from pet and over the crit softcap) ,19 dex (9% crit) and skillfull infiltrator (3% crit) i reach only 36.6% crit which is not vaible for a p.vorpal! in pvp i got only 32,2 crit chance. leave this at it is
2) Feats such as shadowy opportunity, Exposed weakness, Shadow of Demise, and Gutterborn either diminish the targets defense or ignore it completely with piercing damage. All other classes have to spec into armor penetration for this effect.
we are the only fighter class which has no resistance ignored on our stats... GWF run around with 28 con (+34% hp and -18 resitance ignored) gf's get it from dex and hr's from str. if you take this feats away we would deal less dmg than in mod 4 because the exe tree gave us around 50% crit severity in mod 4 now we got 15%. lower the piercing dmg of shadowy of opportunity the rest is fine
3) Feats like Knife's edge in combination with BB reduce all your cooldowns to zero so that you always have all of your encounters up immediately following a daily, which after the encounters are used you can use another daily immediately. All other classes have to spec into recovery for this effect.
Its nice to have but you dont event need this feat and yes its bugged for sure this needs a fix
4) TRs are able to use a daily that ignores all defense, deflect, and even tenacity in combination with 100% critical from stealth. The damage on this daily is through the roof. It is a one shot depending on your power (which doesn't need to be terribly high or it can be buffed by other feats in the TR feat trees). All armor and tenacity on any class then becomes paper. There is no way to mitigate this. No other class has a encounter or daily that can be compared to this ability. It is THE most OP ability in the game.
You can dodge it now but yes it is still too much dmg and needs a tone down
5) TRs cannot be seen unless they attack you first. Most TR attacks from stealth will be aimed at stunning the target so that while you can see them you will be stunned. If they attempt gloaming cut they will come in, GC and dodge roll away hitting you for 8-14k and using only one of their many escape tactics (they will have multiple rolls, itc, and stuns ready if you happen to hit them at that point). No other class has as many escape and cc resist tactics as the TR.
GC needs a tonedown it does too much dmg combined with 100% but on the other side you if you use an at will like cos or df you lose your stealth completly with 3-4 hits. if the devs tone down GC they should buff the other at wills to make it more attractive to leave stealth. the rest is fine
6) TR has very high deflect capabilities built in to the class. Many stuns simply are deflected without the need for ITC.
30% isnt that much compared to the other fighter classes? I would love to give up my 10% deflect i get through dex and cha for resitance ignored like the other fighter classes get! and i still take a lot of dmg through ITC
7) TR has one of, if not the, highest AP gain of any of the classes in the game, allowing them to get their one shot daily up very quickly, or if they are pressed by 2-3v1 they can use BB to instantly refill all their encounters and reset any loss of rotation.
if you talkin about heroic t1 (10%) and tactics (30%)is bull**** except for pve. What should i give up for those feat and class feature? 9%hp/6% dmg after leaving stealth/3% crit/90% stealth loss or 30% movement speed?
8) Depending on their build or feats they can do very high end burst damage even with little gear because their feats give them all the offense they need without having to gear for it. Crits (auto from stealth), critical severity (Arterial Cut), armorpen (Shadowy Opportunity), power (Shadowborn), recovery (Shadowy Preparations, Knife's Edge) ... all these are simply handed to the rogue through feats.
The burst dmg comes from 100% and Piercing dmg our critical severity bonus is in the feats and is even lower than mod 4. If i dont stack recovery i would have no ap bonus at all only reduced cd which are the highest cd ingame. For example ITC got a cd of 17.6 sec BAS 24.5sec and lb 19.6 sec. we are the only fighter class which has no resistance ignored on our stats... GWF run around with 28 con (+34% hp and -18 resitance ignored) gf's get it from dex and hr's from str.
You cant nerf everything if you take our piercing dmg/dodges/ap gain/crit/cd reduction we are just noad runners which are now visible if we attack^^ we would be worser than in mod 4 if you nerf all of this.
The main problem with current MI/Sab atm is the piercing dmg combined with bb and the dmg with GC and Cos and of course SE. Devs should reduce the piercing dmg and as well the dmg of GC and SE. With a nerf of the piercing dmg bb wouldnt be a problem. The base dmg of bb isnt that high it only triggers nasty with the piercing dmg so the dmg is doubled. but on the other way they should buff sf and df to make it more attraktive for leaving stealth to deal burst dmg. With those changes you cant deal such a high burst with such a low risk. If you want to deal some real burst you have too use df or sf but for the cost of stealth.
Black Turtle TryhartzIV
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
1) TRs get 100% critical chance during stealth. No other class gets 100% critical save CW's only during EoS which is brief and not easily timed (read takes skill). All other classes have to spec into critical strike for this effect.
Yes but lose our stealth immidiatly if you dont use GC and you are now visible when you hit a enemy. Without stealth with 2826 crit (from pet and over the crit softcap) ,19 dex (9% crit) and skillfull infiltrator (3% crit) i reach only 36.6% crit which is not vaible for a p.vorpal! in pvp i got only 32,2 crit chance. leave this at it is
2) Feats such as shadowy opportunity, Exposed weakness, Shadow of Demise, and Gutterborn either diminish the targets defense or ignore it completely with piercing damage. All other classes have to spec into armor penetration for this effect.
we are the only fighter class which has no resistance ignored on our stats... GWF run around with 28 con (+34% hp and -18 resitance ignored) gf's get it from dex and hr's from str. if you take this feats away we would deal less dmg than in mod 4 because the exe tree gave us around 50% crit severity in mod 4 now we got 15%. lower the piercing dmg of shadowy of opportunity the rest is fine
3) Feats like Knife's edge in combination with BB reduce all your cooldowns to zero so that you always have all of your encounters up immediately following a daily, which after the encounters are used you can use another daily immediately. All other classes have to spec into recovery for this effect.
Its nice to have but you dont event need this feat and yes its bugged for sure this needs a fix
4) TRs are able to use a daily that ignores all defense, deflect, and even tenacity in combination with 100% critical from stealth. The damage on this daily is through the roof. It is a one shot depending on your power (which doesn't need to be terribly high or it can be buffed by other feats in the TR feat trees). All armor and tenacity on any class then becomes paper. There is no way to mitigate this. No other class has a encounter or daily that can be compared to this ability. It is THE most OP ability in the game.
You can dodge it now but yes it is still too much dmg and needs a tone down
5) TRs cannot be seen unless they attack you first. Most TR attacks from stealth will be aimed at stunning the target so that while you can see them you will be stunned. If they attempt gloaming cut they will come in, GC and dodge roll away hitting you for 8-14k and using only one of their many escape tactics (they will have multiple rolls, itc, and stuns ready if you happen to hit them at that point). No other class has as many escape and cc resist tactics as the TR.
GC needs a tonedown it does too much dmg combined with 100% but on the other side you if you use an at will like cos or df you lose your stealth completly with 3-4 hits. if the devs tone down GC they should buff the other at wills to make it more attractive to leave stealth. the rest is fine
6) TR has very high deflect capabilities built in to the class. Many stuns simply are deflected without the need for ITC.
30% isnt that much compared to the other fighter classes? I would love to give up my 10% deflect i get through dex and cha for resitance ignored like the other fighter classes get! and i still take a lot of dmg through ITC
7) TR has one of, if not the, highest AP gain of any of the classes in the game, allowing them to get their one shot daily up very quickly, or if they are pressed by 2-3v1 they can use BB to instantly refill all their encounters and reset any loss of rotation.
if you talkin about heroic t1 (10%) and tactics (30%)is bull**** except for pve. What should i give up for those feat and class feature? 9%hp/6% dmg after leaving stealth/3% crit/90% stealth loss or 30% movement speed?
8) Depending on their build or feats they can do very high end burst damage even with little gear because their feats give them all the offense they need without having to gear for it. Crits (auto from stealth), critical severity (Arterial Cut), armorpen (Shadowy Opportunity), power (Shadowborn), recovery (Shadowy Preparations, Knife's Edge) ... all these are simply handed to the rogue through feats.
The burst dmg comes from 100% and Piercing dmg our critical severity bonus is in the feats and is even lower than mod 4. If i dont stack recovery i would have no ap bonus at all only reduced cd which are the highest cd ingame. For example ITC got a cd of 17.6 sec BAS 24.5sec and lb 19.6 sec. we are the only fighter class which has no resistance ignored on our stats... GWF run around with 28 con (+34% hp and -18 resitance ignored) gf's get it from dex and hr's from str.
You cant nerf everything if you take our piercing dmg/dodges/ap gain/crit/cd reduction we are just noad runners which are now visible if we attack^^ we would be worser than in mod 4 if you nerf all of this.
The main problem with current MI/Sab atm is the piercing dmg combined with bb and the dmg with GC and Cos and of course SE. Devs should reduce the piercing dmg and as well the dmg of GC and SE. With a nerf of the piercing dmg bb wouldnt be a problem. The base dmg of bb isnt that high it only triggers nasty with the piercing dmg so the dmg is doubled. but on the other way they should buff sf and df to make it more attraktive for leaving stealth to deal burst dmg. With those changes you cant deal such a high burst with such a low risk. If you want to deal some real burst you have too use df or sf but for the cost of stealth.
We don't ask to delete it all
Just nerf 1 or 2 of it until it's can be called balance so don't over react
Every class need their cheese but TR with no doubt become OP now
it's not dev mistake they make TR OP because they want to make it OP
If it was mistake they must be prepare next fix not slow it down and let exploit to be done
just change the game name from neverwinter to never balance and no one gonna complaint
What do you think of this afternoon Domination Board when you look at the 3 first pages of the top board?
Here is the % of top characters:
TR 52%, DC 13%, HR 13%, GWF 10%, CW 10%, GF 2%, SW 0%
You just reek of ignorance. After all these discussions you still believe TR is fine... Oh my god.
Quick look through your post history and I don't see any mention of CW being fine for the last 3 Modules.
Your stupid is showing.
On a brighter (hue) note, the obvious solution to "balancing" TRs was obviously shot down by the devs. In fact, there was a PWE post which stated that they have no intention of nerfing TR damage. What they wanted to nerf was permastealth.
Yes, TR has had one of the lowest damage output of all the classes, so much so that we were scoffed at and kicked from PvP and PvE parties whenever available. Now, the devs give us ridiculous damage output. Everyone cries about damage output. Their solution is to nerf survivability. Because we can have a TR winning the game for his team 30-0 or we can have a TR winning the game for his team 30-5.
The logic escapes me. That's probably because no logic was involved. However, the devs have made it very obvious that they hate permastealth. They had no problem when TRs was permanently in stealth doing no damage, but being permanently in stealth doing a lot of damage is a big problem. So we have to nerf stealth.
At this rate, the nerfs won't stop until TR is back at Mod 4 standings or worse. This is because regardless of whether Combat HR is still nearly a brick wall and regardless of whether DC is still practically immortal, all of you suckass crybaby pussies still cry about TRs.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
This is because regardless of whether Combat HR is still nearly a brick wall and regardless of whether DC is still practically immortal, all of you suckass crybaby pussies still cry about TRs.
because HR and DC dont oneshot you from stealth with close to no counterplay ?
You are wrong in your assumptions:
First: You do not want to know how fast i recharge my AP dice with my TR. I said "i do it [recharge my AP dice] in less than 3 or 4 mins in PvP" as kwessa stated.
The way you worded you post made it look like you took around 3 or 4 minutes. If it's faster than that then say so. I can only go by what you post, not what you might be thinking.
Second: My main TR is far away for being a "Recharge/recovery" build focused as you just stated. Is correct that i use rank 7/8 on offensives on her, but is just to rise her GS yet i can recharge my AP dice in 2 mins or so in PvP without any AP artifact or either "Tactics" or "Action Advantage" on... and i do not need a "staying target" to land my DF. FYI, she only has 0.9k on recovery while geared for PvP... which, as you can see, is really a low amount of recovery.
Okay - so now we have a 2 minute AP recharge. At least we have a number to work with. Silveries in offence slots are hugely inefficient unless you're building for CD reduction and/or AP gain which is what I mean about building for recharge. What's your INT stat?
I never contested that TRs can build for respectable AP gain. I contested that they had the fastest of all classes. This is simply untrue and I can beat the AP gain of any TR with my DC and CW without having to gimp key stats to do it. You really don't want to know how fast my DC gains AP for instance, and she's only 12k GS.
Now there are several proposed fixes to this issue:
1) Make all damage subject to DR, remove piercing damage and make SE respect DR/Tenacity.
2) Remove automatic crits from stealth allowing burst damage to be percentage based. You may one shot, you may not, it would depend on the roll of the dice.
3) Decrease the number of escapes TRs have, multiple dodge rolls/ITC/stealth/invulnerability during dailies/stuns. This is the equivalent to having more Armor than tanks as it's better to be able to avoid damage than it is to tank it.
4) Decrease base damage of encounters/at-wills.
I have had a TR as my main since June 2013. I have suffered through about a year of being seen as the weakest class in the game and have very much enjoyed being a bit OP after the Mod 5 release.
The TR is no more OP than other classes in their respective OP days (CW, GWF, etc.), but I can see some need for minor nerfing.
I agree with your first and second suggestions. Automatic crits from stealth and attacks ignoring resistance is a bit much. I completely disagree with the last two suggestions. TRs should be the most mobile and be able to escape better than any other class, due to their core nature. They are also supposed to be the best class at single target DPS, so reducing at-will damage seems a bit much.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
On a brighter (hue) note, the obvious solution to "balancing" TRs was obviously shot down by the devs. In fact, there was a PWE post which stated that they have no intention of nerfing TR damage. What they wanted to nerf was permastealth.
Yes, TR has had one of the lowest damage output of all the classes, so much so that we were scoffed at and kicked from PvP and PvE parties whenever available. Now, the devs give us ridiculous damage output. Everyone cries about damage output. Their solution is to nerf survivability. Because we can have a TR winning the game for his team 30-0 or we can have a TR winning the game for his team 30-5.
The logic escapes me. That's probably because no logic was involved. However, the devs have made it very obvious that they hate permastealth. They had no problem when TRs was permanently in stealth doing no damage, but being permanently in stealth doing a lot of damage is a big problem. So we have to nerf stealth.
At this rate, the nerfs won't stop until TR is back at Mod 4 standings or worse. This is because regardless of whether Combat HR is still nearly a brick wall and regardless of whether DC is still practically immortal, all of you suckass crybaby pussies still cry about TRs.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
At this rate, the nerfs won't stop until TR is back at Mod 4 standings or worse. This is because regardless of whether Combat HR is still nearly a brick wall and regardless of whether DC is still practically immortal, all of you suckass crybaby pussies still cry about TRs.
I had my postings about Trs and I said that we dont need much more of them because if the devs have not opened their eyes from all this I dont think 100+ more post about the subject will matter much.
We through arguments back and forth some saying this and immidiatly some others say that and so the merry dance goes on and everybody is so tired of it they they through insults more then arguments whish is a good sign that the discussion has reached its end.
I myself can no longer see any form of balance between other classes and the trs exept maby for the dcs and the easy way of showing this is what I been writing before.
There is no true balance between classes as some will have advantage against the other like rock paper etc but this is no longer the case as Tr stands alone on the top and this is what needs to be changed.
Take a 20k gs Tr and any other class (lest leave the healing dc out of this) of simular gs and see how many times the Tr goes victorious out of that match.
Now take a 14k gs Tr against a 20k of any other class and see how many times the Tr wins and then take a 20k gs Tr against any other class with 14k gs and see what happens.
This becomes even more obvious when we take 22k gs Tr against any other 2 with same gs fighting 1-2. Even in this example the Tr would win more then he would loose but if you take any class with 22K gs against 2 Tr with same gs not a single class would last more then a couple of seconds at best.
Tr rules pvp because they are simple better at killing others and are much much harder to kill then others (yea healing dc is a pain also).
If you can kill other players and get away with it without getting killed you pretty much rule pvp its that simple.
You can argue weather that is as it should or what power/feat/daily that is to blame but it wont change the fact that in pvp Tr stand out like a virgin in a ***** house.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
1) Make all damage subject to DR, remove piercing damage and make SE respect DR/Tenacity.
2) Remove automatic crits from stealth allowing burst damage to be percentage based. You may one shot, you may not, it would depend on the roll of the dice.
3) Decrease the number of escapes TRs have, multiple dodge rolls/ITC/stealth/invulnerability during dailies/stuns. This is the equivalent to having more Armor than tanks as it's better to be able to avoid damage than it is to tank it.
4) Decrease base damage of encounters/at-wills
1) I like piercing damage for it can't be deflected. If they turn piercing damage into undeflectable damage which respects DR, I'll be fine with that.
2) They removed 5% crit chance feat from executioner tree, I'm afraid without 100% crit chance from stealth TR would suck. May be lowering crit chance bonus from 100% to 50% would be fair, but it would hurt PvE damage a lot.
3) Yes. One less dodge is certainly needed nerf.
4) Yes, but increase scaling from power, taking 25k LB from 18k TR - no problem, taking 25k LB from 12k TR - ridiculous.
My personal suggestions
1) Implement daze immunity.
2) Fix SoD bug (applied twice with dot based enchantments).
3) Remove piercing damage and turn it into something more balanced.
4) Reduce base deflection (my leadership TR with 20 dex, 18 cha and 700 deflection has 30%).
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
It's more like every 20 seconds, and requires a solid target to stand still while you're spam-bashing it with DF all the while PotB is active.
In other words, it's PvE stuff.
I can show you 100% AP every 20 seconds without using any AP-boost artifacts if you agree to stand still while I slash you away with DF non-stop. Also, you must have enough HP to stay alive until I keep hitting DF on you. If you start move, if you retaliate, if you make me have to chase you, if you have any other frieds who interfere, then its foul --- is this how your picture of TR PvP works?
(ps) Also, if a TR generates AP that way, do you want to see how fast other classes can generate their AP by beating on an unretaliating target that stays still?
You dont need at-wills for that, only knife's edge, itc, ss and potb. Since potb stacks u also get double the ap from it after your first daily. Also Itc gives insane amounts of ap.
All you need is the ap gain neck and you are good to go. Try it out and u'll get you BB faster than ur second potb is up again which leads close to 15sec.
Once you used 1 daily and u can have 2 potb up, its raining AP.
I know, as i said: i use them just to rise her GS, not for "recovery", so, my int stat is irrelevant. But, even with that, my AP gaining is FAR MORE FASTER than trollwessa claimed/stated with his/her "ultra pro" TR.
*shrugs* I wasn't trying to back up kweassa so not really bothered about that. My TR is what I consider to be a 'normal' combat R build and her AP generation is not that fast. So IMO you need to specifically build for fast AP generation with a TR, which it looks like you have done without intending to.
Also, we may be getting confused. I'm taking about passive AP generation, not using specific encounters/feats just to build AP like the somewhat broken interactions in the Sab tree.
Well, that the TR class has one of the fastest AP gaining is real. The fastest one, i think, goes for GF. But my "point" were that a TR can do up to 4 dailies in 1 min due AP artifacts + feats, which not all other classes are able to do so as far as i know
The original statement I was responding to was that the TR had the FASTEST gain, not one of the fastest. There are several classes who gain AP faster.
You dont need at-wills for that, only knife's edge, itc, ss and potb. Since potb stacks u also get double the ap from it after your first daily. Also Itc gives insane amounts of ap.
All you need is the ap gain neck and you are good to go. Try it out and u'll get you BB faster than ur second potb is up again which leads close to 15sec.
Once you used 1 daily and u can have 2 potb up, its raining AP.
I think it's actually Shady Preparations that causes this effect with BB. It seems that BB puts you in and out of stealth between each strike, so SP triggers multiple times. Unless Knife's Edge is counting each strike of BB as a seperate Daily activation? That would be seriously broken - the same effect with Stormstep Action used to insta-reset all encounters on HRs before they added an ICD.
I think it's actually Shady Preparations that causes this effect with BB. It seems that BB puts you in and out of stealth between each strike, so SP triggers multiple times. Unless Knife's Edge is counting each strike of BB as a seperate Daily activation? That would be seriously broken - the same effect with Stormstep Action used to insta-reset all encounters on HRs before they added an ICD.
Knife's Edge is borderline useless feat, it's only good in combination with BB. They could nerf it to proc once, but as well buff it to be at least 40% CD reduction.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! İmmortal deals 47022 (48966) Physical Damage to you with Shocking Execution.
This x7 times during one match from a 13k Tr that was so bad he could hardly move stright on my 22k Gwf ..
I dont care this shi**'t has to to end and it has to end reallyyyyyy reallllllyyyy fast .....
At this rate, the nerfs won't stop until TR is back at Mod 4 standings or worse. This is because regardless of whether Combat HR is still nearly a brick wall and regardless of whether DC is still practically immortal, all of you suckass crybaby pussies still cry about TRs.
I agree with you 100%. That's why every time a BiS TR tries to kill a BiS HR it doesn't work because the HR self heals the 45k SE. Also why when a BiS TR is on an enemy nose, they send a BiS DC to stalemate him the whole game, because every DC can withstand 20 15k gloaming cuts. Oh wait that doesn't happen...
Now here comes the twilight guy saying. "Upper level PvP means nothing because everyone PuGs nowadays". So instead I guess I should mention the purple strength belt TRs that brought their Perfect Vorpals and can 1 shot every class. Actually instead I think we should talk about the stars that haven't even brough their P.Vorpal yet. Hell a lesser Vorpal will do as long as you lashing blade then Shocking Execution someone. Then wait approximately 6 seconds (if the opponent is still alive) until 1/2 of that damagr reins back. Only this time it's unavoidable
But the other classes are more OP because I don't have the ****ty things that they do as a TR is hard. Especially that queue wait time, you know for all the people that decided they wanted to play the most difficult class, and not some easy class like the DC who can't kill a fly but can heal himself.
I agree with you 100%. That's why every time a BiS TR tries to kill a BiS HR it doesn't work because the HR self heals the 45k SE. Also why when a BiS TR is on an enemy nose, they send a BiS DC to stalemate him the whole game, because every DC can withstand 20 15k gloaming cuts. Oh wait that doesn't happen...
Now here comes the twilight guy saying. "Upper level PvP means nothing because everyone PuGs nowadays". So instead I guess I should mention the purple strength belt TRs that brought their Perfect Vorpals and can 1 shot every class. Actually instead I think we should talk about the stars that haven't even brough their P.Vorpal yet. Hell a lesser Vorpal will do as long as you lashing blade then Shocking Execution someone. Then wait approximately 6 seconds (if the opponent is still alive) until 1/2 of that damagr reins back. Only this time it's unavoidable
But the other classes are more OP because I don't have the ****ty things that they do as a TR is hard. Especially that queue wait time, you know for all the people that decided they wanted to play the most difficult class, and not some easy class like the DC who can't kill a fly but can heal himself.
the tr u just posted here gets killed by any decent dps dc
not even a contest
I agree with you 100%. That's why every time a BiS TR tries to kill a BiS HR it doesn't work because the HR self heals the 45k SE. Also why when a BiS TR is on an enemy nose, they send a BiS DC to stalemate him the whole game, because every DC can withstand 20 15k gloaming cuts. Oh wait that doesn't happen...
Now here comes the twilight guy saying. "Upper level PvP means nothing because everyone PuGs nowadays". So instead I guess I should mention the purple strength belt TRs that brought their Perfect Vorpals and can 1 shot every class. Actually instead I think we should talk about the stars that haven't even brough their P.Vorpal yet. Hell a lesser Vorpal will do as long as you lashing blade then Shocking Execution someone. Then wait approximately 6 seconds (if the opponent is still alive) until 1/2 of that damagr reins back. Only this time it's unavoidable
But the other classes are more OP because I don't have the ****ty things that they do as a TR is hard. Especially that queue wait time, you know for all the people that decided they wanted to play the most difficult class, and not some easy class like the DC who can't kill a fly but can heal himself.
Imo, there should be a new mechanic introduced like the spot/listen on dnd. A roll of tr's hide (based on DEX) against spot/listen of others (based on one attribute like CON). The ones who have spec'ed on this, would maintain a way to defend against TRs. The base of problems caused by TRs is that they can't be revealed before they attack. It's so un-dnd on a dnd-based game. Same goes for cws/dcs (spell resistance checks) and for prone/stuns of other classes. Well, I may live on a different realm asking for sth like this )
Comments
Yes. Please tell your TR to stay at the mid-node if your team ever meets me. I'll be on your back-node.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Yes but lose our stealth immidiatly if you dont use GC and you are now visible when you hit a enemy. Without stealth with 2826 crit (from pet and over the crit softcap) ,19 dex (9% crit) and skillfull infiltrator (3% crit) i reach only 36.6% crit which is not vaible for a p.vorpal! in pvp i got only 32,2 crit chance. leave this at it is
2) Feats such as shadowy opportunity, Exposed weakness, Shadow of Demise, and Gutterborn either diminish the targets defense or ignore it completely with piercing damage. All other classes have to spec into armor penetration for this effect.
we are the only fighter class which has no resistance ignored on our stats... GWF run around with 28 con (+34% hp and -18 resitance ignored) gf's get it from dex and hr's from str. if you take this feats away we would deal less dmg than in mod 4 because the exe tree gave us around 50% crit severity in mod 4 now we got 15%. lower the piercing dmg of shadowy of opportunity the rest is fine
3) Feats like Knife's edge in combination with BB reduce all your cooldowns to zero so that you always have all of your encounters up immediately following a daily, which after the encounters are used you can use another daily immediately. All other classes have to spec into recovery for this effect.
Its nice to have but you dont event need this feat and yes its bugged for sure this needs a fix
4) TRs are able to use a daily that ignores all defense, deflect, and even tenacity in combination with 100% critical from stealth. The damage on this daily is through the roof. It is a one shot depending on your power (which doesn't need to be terribly high or it can be buffed by other feats in the TR feat trees). All armor and tenacity on any class then becomes paper. There is no way to mitigate this. No other class has a encounter or daily that can be compared to this ability. It is THE most OP ability in the game.
You can dodge it now but yes it is still too much dmg and needs a tone down
5) TRs cannot be seen unless they attack you first. Most TR attacks from stealth will be aimed at stunning the target so that while you can see them you will be stunned. If they attempt gloaming cut they will come in, GC and dodge roll away hitting you for 8-14k and using only one of their many escape tactics (they will have multiple rolls, itc, and stuns ready if you happen to hit them at that point). No other class has as many escape and cc resist tactics as the TR.
GC needs a tonedown it does too much dmg combined with 100% but on the other side you if you use an at will like cos or df you lose your stealth completly with 3-4 hits. if the devs tone down GC they should buff the other at wills to make it more attractive to leave stealth. the rest is fine
6) TR has very high deflect capabilities built in to the class. Many stuns simply are deflected without the need for ITC.
30% isnt that much compared to the other fighter classes? I would love to give up my 10% deflect i get through dex and cha for resitance ignored like the other fighter classes get! and i still take a lot of dmg through ITC
7) TR has one of, if not the, highest AP gain of any of the classes in the game, allowing them to get their one shot daily up very quickly, or if they are pressed by 2-3v1 they can use BB to instantly refill all their encounters and reset any loss of rotation.
if you talkin about heroic t1 (10%) and tactics (30%)is bull**** except for pve. What should i give up for those feat and class feature? 9%hp/6% dmg after leaving stealth/3% crit/90% stealth loss or 30% movement speed?
8) Depending on their build or feats they can do very high end burst damage even with little gear because their feats give them all the offense they need without having to gear for it. Crits (auto from stealth), critical severity (Arterial Cut), armorpen (Shadowy Opportunity), power (Shadowborn), recovery (Shadowy Preparations, Knife's Edge) ... all these are simply handed to the rogue through feats.
The burst dmg comes from 100% and Piercing dmg our critical severity bonus is in the feats and is even lower than mod 4. If i dont stack recovery i would have no ap bonus at all only reduced cd which are the highest cd ingame. For example ITC got a cd of 17.6 sec BAS 24.5sec and lb 19.6 sec. we are the only fighter class which has no resistance ignored on our stats... GWF run around with 28 con (+34% hp and -18 resitance ignored) gf's get it from dex and hr's from str.
You cant nerf everything if you take our piercing dmg/dodges/ap gain/crit/cd reduction we are just noad runners which are now visible if we attack^^ we would be worser than in mod 4 if you nerf all of this.
The main problem with current MI/Sab atm is the piercing dmg combined with bb and the dmg with GC and Cos and of course SE. Devs should reduce the piercing dmg and as well the dmg of GC and SE. With a nerf of the piercing dmg bb wouldnt be a problem. The base dmg of bb isnt that high it only triggers nasty with the piercing dmg so the dmg is doubled. but on the other way they should buff sf and df to make it more attraktive for leaving stealth to deal burst dmg. With those changes you cant deal such a high burst with such a low risk. If you want to deal some real burst you have too use df or sf but for the cost of stealth.
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
or they would run around doing nothing thats all.
We don't ask to delete it all
Just nerf 1 or 2 of it until it's can be called balance so don't over react
Every class need their cheese but TR with no doubt become OP now
it's not dev mistake they make TR OP because they want to make it OP
If it was mistake they must be prepare next fix not slow it down and let exploit to be done
just change the game name from neverwinter to never balance and no one gonna complaint
You just reek of ignorance. After all these discussions you still believe TR is fine... Oh my god.
That says it all.
ou contraire
your hypocrisy reeks since your first post
still more balanced then mod 4
80% hr page 1
Quick look through your post history and I don't see any mention of CW being fine for the last 3 Modules.
Your stupid is showing.
On a brighter (hue) note, the obvious solution to "balancing" TRs was obviously shot down by the devs. In fact, there was a PWE post which stated that they have no intention of nerfing TR damage. What they wanted to nerf was permastealth.
Yes, TR has had one of the lowest damage output of all the classes, so much so that we were scoffed at and kicked from PvP and PvE parties whenever available. Now, the devs give us ridiculous damage output. Everyone cries about damage output. Their solution is to nerf survivability. Because we can have a TR winning the game for his team 30-0 or we can have a TR winning the game for his team 30-5.
The logic escapes me. That's probably because no logic was involved. However, the devs have made it very obvious that they hate permastealth. They had no problem when TRs was permanently in stealth doing no damage, but being permanently in stealth doing a lot of damage is a big problem. So we have to nerf stealth.
At this rate, the nerfs won't stop until TR is back at Mod 4 standings or worse. This is because regardless of whether Combat HR is still nearly a brick wall and regardless of whether DC is still practically immortal, all of you suckass crybaby pussies still cry about TRs.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
because HR and DC dont oneshot you from stealth with close to no counterplay ?
Okay - so now we have a 2 minute AP recharge. At least we have a number to work with. Silveries in offence slots are hugely inefficient unless you're building for CD reduction and/or AP gain which is what I mean about building for recharge. What's your INT stat?
I never contested that TRs can build for respectable AP gain. I contested that they had the fastest of all classes. This is simply untrue and I can beat the AP gain of any TR with my DC and CW without having to gimp key stats to do it. You really don't want to know how fast my DC gains AP for instance, and she's only 12k GS.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I have had a TR as my main since June 2013. I have suffered through about a year of being seen as the weakest class in the game and have very much enjoyed being a bit OP after the Mod 5 release.
The TR is no more OP than other classes in their respective OP days (CW, GWF, etc.), but I can see some need for minor nerfing.
I agree with your first and second suggestions. Automatic crits from stealth and attacks ignoring resistance is a bit much. I completely disagree with the last two suggestions. TRs should be the most mobile and be able to escape better than any other class, due to their core nature. They are also supposed to be the best class at single target DPS, so reducing at-will damage seems a bit much.
My opinion.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
LOL! I feel ya!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
We through arguments back and forth some saying this and immidiatly some others say that and so the merry dance goes on and everybody is so tired of it they they through insults more then arguments whish is a good sign that the discussion has reached its end.
I myself can no longer see any form of balance between other classes and the trs exept maby for the dcs and the easy way of showing this is what I been writing before.
There is no true balance between classes as some will have advantage against the other like rock paper etc but this is no longer the case as Tr stands alone on the top and this is what needs to be changed.
Take a 20k gs Tr and any other class (lest leave the healing dc out of this) of simular gs and see how many times the Tr goes victorious out of that match.
Now take a 14k gs Tr against a 20k of any other class and see how many times the Tr wins and then take a 20k gs Tr against any other class with 14k gs and see what happens.
This becomes even more obvious when we take 22k gs Tr against any other 2 with same gs fighting 1-2. Even in this example the Tr would win more then he would loose but if you take any class with 22K gs against 2 Tr with same gs not a single class would last more then a couple of seconds at best.
Tr rules pvp because they are simple better at killing others and are much much harder to kill then others (yea healing dc is a pain also).
If you can kill other players and get away with it without getting killed you pretty much rule pvp its that simple.
You can argue weather that is as it should or what power/feat/daily that is to blame but it wont change the fact that in pvp Tr stand out like a virgin in a ***** house.
Best
Is a 22k GS even a possibility for any TR right now? Maybe if the player messes up the build . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
1) I like piercing damage for it can't be deflected. If they turn piercing damage into undeflectable damage which respects DR, I'll be fine with that.
2) They removed 5% crit chance feat from executioner tree, I'm afraid without 100% crit chance from stealth TR would suck. May be lowering crit chance bonus from 100% to 50% would be fair, but it would hurt PvE damage a lot.
3) Yes. One less dodge is certainly needed nerf.
4) Yes, but increase scaling from power, taking 25k LB from 18k TR - no problem, taking 25k LB from 12k TR - ridiculous.
My personal suggestions
1) Implement daze immunity.
2) Fix SoD bug (applied twice with dot based enchantments).
3) Remove piercing damage and turn it into something more balanced.
4) Reduce base deflection (my leadership TR with 20 dex, 18 cha and 700 deflection has 30%).
I know well over 24K is possible - guess my build is wrong :-(
You dont need at-wills for that, only knife's edge, itc, ss and potb. Since potb stacks u also get double the ap from it after your first daily. Also Itc gives insane amounts of ap.
All you need is the ap gain neck and you are good to go. Try it out and u'll get you BB faster than ur second potb is up again which leads close to 15sec.
Once you used 1 daily and u can have 2 potb up, its raining AP.
Also, we may be getting confused. I'm taking about passive AP generation, not using specific encounters/feats just to build AP like the somewhat broken interactions in the Sab tree.
The original statement I was responding to was that the TR had the FASTEST gain, not one of the fastest. There are several classes who gain AP faster.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Knife's Edge is borderline useless feat, it's only good in combination with BB. They could nerf it to proc once, but as well buff it to be at least 40% CD reduction.
This x7 times during one match from a 13k Tr that was so bad he could hardly move stright on my 22k Gwf ..
I dont care this shi**'t has to to end and it has to end reallyyyyyy reallllllyyyy fast .....
I agree with you 100%. That's why every time a BiS TR tries to kill a BiS HR it doesn't work because the HR self heals the 45k SE. Also why when a BiS TR is on an enemy nose, they send a BiS DC to stalemate him the whole game, because every DC can withstand 20 15k gloaming cuts. Oh wait that doesn't happen...
Now here comes the twilight guy saying. "Upper level PvP means nothing because everyone PuGs nowadays". So instead I guess I should mention the purple strength belt TRs that brought their Perfect Vorpals and can 1 shot every class. Actually instead I think we should talk about the stars that haven't even brough their P.Vorpal yet. Hell a lesser Vorpal will do as long as you lashing blade then Shocking Execution someone. Then wait approximately 6 seconds (if the opponent is still alive) until 1/2 of that damagr reins back. Only this time it's unavoidable
But the other classes are more OP because I don't have the ****ty things that they do
the tr u just posted here gets killed by any decent dps dc
not even a contest
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder