Oh my, no. You have it all confused. The clerics heal up fastest if that CW is keeping the cleric protected by knocking back the mobs. DPS during the cleric phase is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is keeping he mobs not aggroed on the cleric. So any type of CC or aggro-getter is more important than damage.
you do know that killing the mobs asap is better than having 10 of them alive and 1 shot players.
a Cw is better off using OF and steal time/icy terrain, on where they spawn, than randomly using icestorm on the cleric stage where ppl are trying to bring them down. (As a Cw i want them group up together so i can freeze/stun/daze/shock them,not flying all over the place, any additional smokebomb/damage is welcome, but please no icestorm )
You also see mobs of them lazying around at the head stage near the clerics. Anyone unlucky enough to get hoard of them targetting, can gg go back to campfire area.
Best place to use icestorm will be @ the summoner area. A easy place position can send them out flying down to the Lava.
Oh my, no. You have it all confused. The clerics heal up fastest if that CW is keeping the cleric protected by knocking back the mobs. DPS during the cleric phase is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is keeping he mobs not aggroed on the cleric. So any type of CC or aggro-getter is more important than damage.
Uhh. Not when I root and aggro the mobs at the border, well away from the clerics. Seriously this happens repeatedly. Mobs spawn I root and aggro, other melle jumps in ICESTORM! mobs scatter in all directions (Including toward the **** clerics) rather than just dying at spawn point. when there is no CW (or a CW with a clue) you can keep all mobs right upon spawn and they never make it to the clerics. Possibly this is a good idea if everyone else is completely incompetant. But you will likely lose in that case anyway. On the platform IS is awesome as it tends to knock stragglers off the platform.
you do know that killing the mobs asap is better than having 10 of them alive and 1 shot players.
a Cw is better off using OF and steal time/icy terrain, on where they spawn, than randomly using icestorm on the cleric stage where ppl are trying to bring them down. (As a Cw i want them group up together so i can freeze/stun/daze/shock them,not flying all over the place, any additional smokebomb/damage is welcome, but please no icestorm )
You also see mobs of them lazying around at the head stage near the clerics. Anyone unlucky enough to get hoard of them targetting, can gg go back to campfire area.
Best place to use icestorm will be @ the summoner area. A easy place position can send them out flying down to the Lava.
i want you in my party! Oh. Right. Cryptic.........
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Score in Tiamat only reflects the last few seconds of combat in the entire battle. You can do nothing for 20 minutes, then go do some AOEs at the last second and end up on top.
Try putting up the score screen (press X) while playing. Watch how that silly thing works.
actually no.
You have separate scores for each phase (summoners, severin, defend, tiamat), and they are tallied together in some archaic formula somehow. I know executioner and field medic counts for more than pain giver and immovable object, but even living dead (dying) gives you points. What you see as "reseting" is simply the phase changing and a different tally board is being displayed.
I've been #1 in an assured win group (finishing easily in 2nd round with 40+ seconds to spare) and didn't bother going to the last dragon head and just went to the merchant and bought potions, out of combat for a decent amount of time and still #1 at the end.
they are tallied together in some archaic formula somehow
yes, that formula is: throw out all the data from before the last 30 seconds (or so). I have several times instance hopped at the last 30 seconds and stolen the lead by just doing aoes on the mobs. The fact that you got first after not attacking the last head only means that you did a lot more damage before the head was taken down than any individual did on the last head.
You can no longer instance hop, but you can still steal the top spot. I just did it last round!
The score means NOTHING . do not take it seriously!
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
yes, that formula is: throw out all the data from before the last 30 seconds (or so). I have several times instance hopped at the last 30 seconds and stolen the lead by just doing aoes on the mobs. The fact that you got first after not attacking the last head only means that you did a lot more damage before the head was taken down than any individual did on the last head.
You can no longer instance hop, but you can still steal the top spot. I just did it last round!
The score means NOTHING . do not take it seriously!
just afk'd the last minute of Tiamat and still kept my #2 spot, so no.
I've instance hopped in the past and climbed up to #1 before as well. Those instances were all fails where 20 ppl are afk at the fire and poor timmy 10k is trying his darnedest to defend the clerics alone, and when together we get the tiamat heads back up only 1 is even damaged at all and I realized the instance gave up in the first round and afk'd.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
edited December 2014
From my observations, if the instance you're on wins the end-score is some kind of sum of all the previous phase's scores, while if your instance loses the end-score, is the score from the last phase. That's why AFKing in the last couple of minutes on a winning instance won't really change anything, while hoping over to a losing instance and dishing out some damage might get you ranked #1.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Uhh. Not when I root and aggro the mobs at the border, well away from the clerics. Seriously this happens repeatedly. Mobs spawn I root and aggro, other melle jumps in ICESTORM! mobs scatter in all directions (Including toward the **** clerics) rather than just dying at spawn point. when there is no CW (or a CW with a clue) you can keep all mobs right upon spawn and they never make it to the clerics. Possibly this is a good idea if everyone else is completely incompetant. But you will likely lose in that case anyway. On the platform IS is awesome as it tends to knock stragglers off the platform.
As a fellow Trapper I´m fully with you. Two trappers positioned where the mobs spawn would basically be able to permanently root all mobs near Linu and wiping them out would be a cakewalk. Instead bad CWs (and bad DCs) push them all over the place scattering them and making the fight a total mess for everybody (and at least as a Trapper I have some ranged attacks, but you should here the comments from GWFs and TRs in my guild).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2014
I find sometimes they jump out of the roots, though. But with steal time or the Rouge smoke dazy thing, it shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes I manage to Disruptive Shot those who are about to jump out of the roots. This is mainly a problem immediately after they spawn.
I tend to concentrate on spawn point and let other deal with those who manage to get away. But when people hit ice storm, I ttly lose my zest. I have no interest in running after 1 mob. I imagine it must be terribly annoying for TRs and GWF in particular.
as a CW, I hate every CW that use repel and ice storm in tiamat during the cleric phase. Death is the best form of control.
As for the subject, GS is meaningless. It is FAR too easy to stack it to stupidly high amount while reducing your effectiveness by a ton.
A lot of classes are much better off in t2 sets and yet, I see a ton of players using 2/2 sets or HAMSTER like corrupted/purified black ice gear and other similar ineffective sets. There's also all those players that use GS boosting artifacts (you know, HAMSTER like waters that gives 3 stats that inflate GS despite being god awful) and stack terrible stats that bring nothing to the fight (like the 430~ regen rings).
Yes, 10k GS players have no business in here simply because they should be gearing up (and learning to play in many cases) elsewhere instead of jumping right into the hardest content but to think that highest GS = best damage is absolutely wrong. There's about a 5k disparity between ideal gearing and GS HAMSTER for a CW (meaning the GS ***** can have up to 5k more GS than the guy in actual BIS), I can just imagine it's highly similar for other classes. That big of a disparity just makes GS useless to me.
As for the subject, GS is meaningless. It is FAR too easy to stack it to stupidly high amount while reducing your effectiveness by a ton.
I wouldn't say it is meaningless. I'd say GS is a very powerful tool in determining potential player effectiveness. People always love to fantasize about the worst possible situation. They love to fantasize about a 20k GS player who has 10k deflect, not enough armor pen and power etc.
Let's be real, this really doesnt happen. I've seen more screwed up builds amongst the 14k GS players than the 18-20k GS players. Higher gearscore has a correlation with players being smarter about their builds.
And please, let's avoid the 2/4 vs 4/4 comparisons. That is a difference of 400 gearscore. Whenever we speak of high GS vs low GS, nobody is saying "herp derp I have 400GS more than you therefore I am superior". That set bonus argument is a complete strawman.
And please, let's avoid the 2/4 vs 4/4 comparisons. That is a difference of 400 gearscore. Whenever we speak of high GS vs low GS, nobody is saying "herp derp I have 400GS more than you therefore I am superior". That set bonus argument is a complete strawman.
It is not a 400 difference. The t2.5 or t3 sets have up to hundreds of extra stats per items in addition to the 450 stat bonus.
And it does happen, a LOT. Almost half the CW I see are sporting 2/2 sets. It is highly common.
There is also the question that what is actually a bad build. On this forum it seems that many people only judge the build of some classes purely on dps. Surviving is very much undervalued. Propably half the gwf players would scream looking at my build that I have too little dps. But from the other side I have just achieved the level of survivability that I desired and am now slowly working on the dps side. There are different ways to build your chars and having one doesnt mean that the others are bad or wrong
If I play with pugs I rather take an unkown player with high GS than a unkown random player with low GS. If I pug I have no idea how good a player is so I would have to go with the one thing I do know - the GS.
If I play with friends, the GS don't matter at all because fun wins over fast runs. You cant farm any AD anyway so it don't really matter how good the party is because I would only do dungeons for fun.
here's the thing. You can INSPECT players before inviting them.
Stop using GS as "it's the only measurement tool I have" because it's just NOT TRUE. What's true is that you are too lazy to inspect someone's gear to know if that player has a grasp of basic gearing up.
And it does happen, a LOT. Almost half the CW I see are sporting 2/2 sets. It is highly common.
I never said it doesn't happen a lot. It does happen a lot unfortunately.
What I'm saying is, the gearscore differences you usually see in our arguments is not because someone is sporting a 2/4 instead of 4/4. Its usually because they have green gear, green and blue artifacts and horribly placed enchantments.
here's the thing. You can INSPECT players before inviting them.
Stop using GS as "it's the only measurement tool I have" because it's just NOT TRUE. What's true is that you are too lazy to inspect someone's gear to know if that player has a grasp of basic gearing up.
I think people are bringing this topic up because of Tiamat. They really should let people play with their friends.
Before Tiamat, the smart folks joined a good guild or had their connections to run with.
And please, let's avoid the 2/4 vs 4/4 comparisons. That is a difference of 400 gearscore. Whenever we speak of high GS vs low GS, nobody is saying "herp derp I have 400GS more than you therefore I am superior". That set bonus argument is a complete strawman.
I thought these were my exact words in relation to the 2/4 vs 4/4.
Someone using 2/2 sets is very common and in the vast majority of the cases, the player in question is also inflating his GS by other means. Often using terrible jewelry (of the shores) or previously, that hrimnir set, terrible artifacts that boost GS due to having three stats compiled in GS and the likes.
Someone using 2/2 sets is very common and in the vast majority of the cases, the player in question is also inflating his GS by other means. Often using terrible jewelry (of the shores) or previously, that hrimnir set, terrible artifacts that boost GS due to having three stats compiled in GS and the likes.
Those jewellery aren't bad, high gsers have personalised stuff anyway which is BiS. Also some of the best artifacts hae 3 stats, ie sigil of the great weapon and vanguard's banner for those that need lifesteal. You can inflate gs from companions, but really companions are overrated past a single stone. You can also put more points in feats that give you extra gs that's effective, but overall you seem to be talking about those that are sort of averagely geared at 16-17k. When I see the real high end ones, the round seems to go much better and rightly so than someone with low gs. I've started using coordinated times which I didn't bother with before since I used to get plenty of wins anyway, but am getting kind of fed up now. It's common sense really.
The GWF is the only artifact with 3 stats that I consider truly good.
and the shore rings are really not good. Simply because one of them has a defense slot, which is nearly useless compared to an offense slot.
check out lfg for those CW that advertize themselves as 18k gs or more. Almost all of them are doing gs inflating
It's a solid choice for my cw who appreciates the lifesteal as well as the hp and power that you can't go wrong with. The heart of the dragon has power defence and regen which again is pretty decent, I did get it to level 99 for pvp but usually too lazy to use it. There was also waters which used to be highly used, but the sigil outclasses it and recovery can be less of a concern. Overall I see more bad artifacts that don't have 3 gs boosting stats and definitely not something to judge someone on.
The shore set was a solid set that gave a decent amount of stats if you were to balance it. I didn't want to do so and avoided it myself, but I see no reason to judge its use pre mod 5. I used to use a defence ring myself previously for a touch more survivability.
I do see some people using black ice sets, or dual sets and I do see it as less efficient use, but as long as someone has hv, ie me, I guess it doesn't really matter for a cw if people are zerging.
True Story: One of the last times I ever attempted Tactics in Tiamat, I joined the Green group. The last person to join was a 12k DC in HP gear and a lesser PlagueFire. Despite the fact that I had HP gear at 16.5k and we already had a GPF in the group. In the discussion in Say after the instance failed, I tried to talk to him a little about his gear and why people were angry with people like him.
He was from a major PvE Guild, but said that this was his RPing character, that he hadn't completed any previous campaigns, beaten MC or VT. He had training runestones on his augment Stone and no gear on it. He also had no idea how his gear worked.
I suggested at a bare minimum he needed to run VT and complete it enough to get the end chest weapon set. He replied that all he was doing was buffing and healing, so he didn't need better gear. He was completely clueless about the short duration of HP's set bonus, how hard it is to maintain full stacks on mobs, or that by joining the group he chose he had rendered himself set-less. So all he was contributing was his DPS at 3500 Power and a bad T1 weapon.
And that's a large part of the focus on GS, that sets and buffs and debuffs do not stack with their like at all. So the vast majority of the time, especially in a zerg, your group contribution comes down to the damage that you are able to do, how large and how often you can critical, and whether or not you can survive even a single Legion Devil attack.
Insane GS snobbery is a 26k person telling a 20k person they don't have enough for Tiamat.
But telling someone who *can't be bothered* to clear T1-T2 and earn their sets (like I did), and earn an endgame weapon (or craft one like I did), that they are principally responsible for the instance's failure isn't "snobbery." It's what is. If you can't contribute enough to beat VT in a 5-person group and get a seriously good weapon set, you can't say you have the "skills" to contribute to Tiamat. You are asking to mooch off the time and effort that other people have put into their characters.
I've done Tiamat over 100 times (DC and CW) and never gotten any grief, even when I've zoned in with the 20K+ crowd. For someone to bother to GS check you, you would have had to draw attention to yourself somehow, and that points to poor skills. Like a really bad use of Sunburst on knockback, like that 12k DC I mentioned earlier.
Higher gear is more effective than lesser gear. Experienced, knowledgeable players are better than stupid, laggy players. Having good gear more often than not tells of a desire to learn about the game. This game is not hard to learn. I'll take the higher gear over lower gear.
Higher gear is more effective than lesser gear. Experienced, knowledgeable players are better than stupid, laggy players. Having good gear more often than not tells of a desire to learn about the game. This game is not hard to learn. I'll take the higher gear over lower gear.
Lag has nothing to do with player skill, gear, or anything else. You find me a player that has never ever lagged out or dc'd during a raid in any mmo and I'll find you a liar.
All things being equal, a higher gear score means a quicker kill (or greater chance of succeeding).
A DC and a GF can get away with a lower GS due to their roles.
DPS classes can't get away with it. I agree a 16k+ running a split set or BI is just as useless as a 10-12K, but at the same time too many low GS people (even experienced) will not have enough DPS to succeed.
Keep in mind, once all the 20k folks finish up their last boon, you won't be seeing them in there anymore so then you will get to see just how hard Tiamat is with predominantly 12-14k folks in there.
True Story: One of the last times I ever attempted Tactics in Tiamat, I joined the Green group. The last person to join was a 12k DC in HP gear and a lesser PlagueFire. Despite the fact that I had HP gear at 16.5k and we already had a GPF in the group. In the discussion in Say after the instance failed, I tried to talk to him a little about his gear and why people were angry with people like him.
He was from a major PvE Guild, but said that this was his RPing character, that he hadn't completed any previous campaigns, beaten MC or VT. He had training runestones on his augment Stone and no gear on it. He also had no idea how his gear worked.
I suggested at a bare minimum he needed to run VT and complete it enough to get the end chest weapon set. He replied that all he was doing was buffing and healing, so he didn't need better gear. He was completely clueless about the short duration of HP's set bonus, how hard it is to maintain full stacks on mobs, or that by joining the group he chose he had rendered himself set-less. So all he was contributing was his DPS at 3500 Power and a bad T1 weapon.
And that's a large part of the focus on GS, that sets and buffs and debuffs do not stack with their like at all. So the vast majority of the time, especially in a zerg, your group contribution comes down to the damage that you are able to do, how large and how often you can critical, and whether or not you can survive even a single Legion Devil attack.
Insane GS snobbery is a 26k person telling a 20k person they don't have enough for Tiamat.
But telling someone who *can't be bothered* to clear T1-T2 and earn their sets (like I did), and earn an endgame weapon (or craft one like I did), that they are principally responsible for the instance's failure isn't "snobbery." It's what is. If you can't contribute enough to beat VT in a 5-person group and get a seriously good weapon set, you can't say you have the "skills" to contribute to Tiamat. You are asking to mooch off the time and effort that other people have put into their characters.
I've done Tiamat over 100 times (DC and CW) and never gotten any grief, even when I've zoned in with the 20K+ crowd. For someone to bother to GS check you, you would have had to draw attention to yourself somehow, and that points to poor skills. Like a really bad use of Sunburst on knockback, like that 12k DC I mentioned earlier.
First, Lesser PF does stack with Greater PF. PF's just don't stack with others of the same rank.
And the issue in your group here was that you had two debuff DCs with the exact same 4pc sets that don't stack with each other. It did not matter at all that one was 12k and the other was 18k. If the second DC was also 18k, then the debuffs still wouldn't have stacked.
The problem here was created when the group leader allowed two DC's to be in the group. Tactics runs require more careful choices of party composition. And it's pretty sad that you blame the poor 12k DC for instance's failure when the group leader should have been more cognizant of the group he was forming. That 12k DC would have been a lot more useful in another group that didn't have a DC.
Lag has nothing to do with player skill, gear, or anything else. You find me a player that has never ever lagged out or dc'd during a raid in any mmo and I'll find you a liar.
"Nothing to do with skill... or anything else." Wrong. Lag throws off timings and dps due to less actions taken.
"Find me a player that as never... lagged." I'm not talking about never, but if they lag during the battle, it will effect their performance.
Your play time is 3 hours 34 minutes. I wonder which of the two categories I mentioned earlier you're closer to.
"Nothing to do with skill... or anything else." Wrong. Lag throws off timings and dps due to less actions taken.
"Find me a player that as never... lagged." I'm not talking about never, but if they lag during the battle, it will effect their performance.
Your play time is 3 hours 34 minutes. I wonder which of the two categories I mentioned earlier you're closer to.
Of course lagging makes you less effective, that's like saying the sky is blue. You seem to think that only someone that is a horrible player lags though. That's what makes you wrong. As far as my play time, I have no idea where you are getting that number from. I have wasted far more of my life that that playing this game. That's an evenings playtime for me, and while I tend to play this game for a couple months and then take a break and come back the next module I've been playing far longer than that.
Of course lagging makes you less effective, that's like saying the sky is blue. You seem to think that only someone that is a horrible player lags though. That's what makes you wrong. As far as my play time, I have no idea where you are getting that number from. I have wasted far more of my life that that playing this game. That's an evenings playtime for me, and while I tend to play this game for a couple months and then take a break and come back the next module I've been playing far longer than that.
3 hours 34 minutes is reflected on your profile. Yeah, 3 hours doesn't seems like enough time to develop any kind of opinion on this, other than maybe that this whole Tiamat mess isn't worth the time.
"You seem to think that only someone that is a horrible player lags though." No, you misunderstand. I was using a sweeping broad spectrum that encompasses a lot more types of players than the two types I had mentioned. There was no only. I'll do another one: Take lesser geared, laggy, inexperienced, stubborn players (or bots) if you want a challenge. Take well geared players like myself if you want to win.
If you look at it from the point of view of a well geared player, I think it's easy to understand their frustration. They're forced to work with those that won't take the time or make the effort to develop their characters. Perhaps elitism is a form of tough love that the better geared feel that they need to give to motivate the lesser. Sometimes the lesser are driven to do better, sometimes they're lazy, don't have time, don't care, or what not so they have to feel the ire. Tiamat is the crucible. Rise and be the cream, or the stuff below it.
Comments
you do know that killing the mobs asap is better than having 10 of them alive and 1 shot players.
a Cw is better off using OF and steal time/icy terrain, on where they spawn, than randomly using icestorm on the cleric stage where ppl are trying to bring them down. (As a Cw i want them group up together so i can freeze/stun/daze/shock them,not flying all over the place, any additional smokebomb/damage is welcome, but please no icestorm )
You also see mobs of them lazying around at the head stage near the clerics. Anyone unlucky enough to get hoard of them targetting, can gg go back to campfire area.
Best place to use icestorm will be @ the summoner area. A easy place position can send them out flying down to the Lava.
Uhh. Not when I root and aggro the mobs at the border, well away from the clerics. Seriously this happens repeatedly. Mobs spawn I root and aggro, other melle jumps in ICESTORM! mobs scatter in all directions (Including toward the **** clerics) rather than just dying at spawn point. when there is no CW (or a CW with a clue) you can keep all mobs right upon spawn and they never make it to the clerics. Possibly this is a good idea if everyone else is completely incompetant. But you will likely lose in that case anyway. On the platform IS is awesome as it tends to knock stragglers off the platform.
i want you in my party! Oh. Right. Cryptic.........
actually no.
You have separate scores for each phase (summoners, severin, defend, tiamat), and they are tallied together in some archaic formula somehow. I know executioner and field medic counts for more than pain giver and immovable object, but even living dead (dying) gives you points. What you see as "reseting" is simply the phase changing and a different tally board is being displayed.
I've been #1 in an assured win group (finishing easily in 2nd round with 40+ seconds to spare) and didn't bother going to the last dragon head and just went to the merchant and bought potions, out of combat for a decent amount of time and still #1 at the end.
You can no longer instance hop, but you can still steal the top spot. I just did it last round!
The score means NOTHING . do not take it seriously!
just afk'd the last minute of Tiamat and still kept my #2 spot, so no.
I've instance hopped in the past and climbed up to #1 before as well. Those instances were all fails where 20 ppl are afk at the fire and poor timmy 10k is trying his darnedest to defend the clerics alone, and when together we get the tiamat heads back up only 1 is even damaged at all and I realized the instance gave up in the first round and afk'd.
As a fellow Trapper I´m fully with you. Two trappers positioned where the mobs spawn would basically be able to permanently root all mobs near Linu and wiping them out would be a cakewalk. Instead bad CWs (and bad DCs) push them all over the place scattering them and making the fight a total mess for everybody (and at least as a Trapper I have some ranged attacks, but you should here the comments from GWFs and TRs in my guild).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I tend to concentrate on spawn point and let other deal with those who manage to get away. But when people hit ice storm, I ttly lose my zest. I have no interest in running after 1 mob. I imagine it must be terribly annoying for TRs and GWF in particular.
As for the subject, GS is meaningless. It is FAR too easy to stack it to stupidly high amount while reducing your effectiveness by a ton.
A lot of classes are much better off in t2 sets and yet, I see a ton of players using 2/2 sets or HAMSTER like corrupted/purified black ice gear and other similar ineffective sets. There's also all those players that use GS boosting artifacts (you know, HAMSTER like waters that gives 3 stats that inflate GS despite being god awful) and stack terrible stats that bring nothing to the fight (like the 430~ regen rings).
Yes, 10k GS players have no business in here simply because they should be gearing up (and learning to play in many cases) elsewhere instead of jumping right into the hardest content but to think that highest GS = best damage is absolutely wrong. There's about a 5k disparity between ideal gearing and GS HAMSTER for a CW (meaning the GS ***** can have up to 5k more GS than the guy in actual BIS), I can just imagine it's highly similar for other classes. That big of a disparity just makes GS useless to me.
I wouldn't say it is meaningless. I'd say GS is a very powerful tool in determining potential player effectiveness. People always love to fantasize about the worst possible situation. They love to fantasize about a 20k GS player who has 10k deflect, not enough armor pen and power etc.
Let's be real, this really doesnt happen. I've seen more screwed up builds amongst the 14k GS players than the 18-20k GS players. Higher gearscore has a correlation with players being smarter about their builds.
And please, let's avoid the 2/4 vs 4/4 comparisons. That is a difference of 400 gearscore. Whenever we speak of high GS vs low GS, nobody is saying "herp derp I have 400GS more than you therefore I am superior". That set bonus argument is a complete strawman.
It is not a 400 difference. The t2.5 or t3 sets have up to hundreds of extra stats per items in addition to the 450 stat bonus.
And it does happen, a LOT. Almost half the CW I see are sporting 2/2 sets. It is highly common.
If I play with friends, the GS don't matter at all because fun wins over fast runs. You cant farm any AD anyway so it don't really matter how good the party is because I would only do dungeons for fun.
Stop using GS as "it's the only measurement tool I have" because it's just NOT TRUE. What's true is that you are too lazy to inspect someone's gear to know if that player has a grasp of basic gearing up.
I never said it doesn't happen a lot. It does happen a lot unfortunately.
What I'm saying is, the gearscore differences you usually see in our arguments is not because someone is sporting a 2/4 instead of 4/4. Its usually because they have green gear, green and blue artifacts and horribly placed enchantments.
I think people are bringing this topic up because of Tiamat. They really should let people play with their friends.
Before Tiamat, the smart folks joined a good guild or had their connections to run with.
Your exact words.
I thought these were my exact words in relation to the 2/4 vs 4/4.
I guess the quote does lie.
Those jewellery aren't bad, high gsers have personalised stuff anyway which is BiS. Also some of the best artifacts hae 3 stats, ie sigil of the great weapon and vanguard's banner for those that need lifesteal. You can inflate gs from companions, but really companions are overrated past a single stone. You can also put more points in feats that give you extra gs that's effective, but overall you seem to be talking about those that are sort of averagely geared at 16-17k. When I see the real high end ones, the round seems to go much better and rightly so than someone with low gs. I've started using coordinated times which I didn't bother with before since I used to get plenty of wins anyway, but am getting kind of fed up now. It's common sense really.
The GWF is the only artifact with 3 stats that I consider truly good.
and the shore rings are really not good. Simply because one of them has a defense slot, which is nearly useless compared to an offense slot.
check out lfg for those CW that advertize themselves as 18k gs or more. Almost all of them are doing gs inflating
It's a solid choice for my cw who appreciates the lifesteal as well as the hp and power that you can't go wrong with. The heart of the dragon has power defence and regen which again is pretty decent, I did get it to level 99 for pvp but usually too lazy to use it. There was also waters which used to be highly used, but the sigil outclasses it and recovery can be less of a concern. Overall I see more bad artifacts that don't have 3 gs boosting stats and definitely not something to judge someone on.
The shore set was a solid set that gave a decent amount of stats if you were to balance it. I didn't want to do so and avoided it myself, but I see no reason to judge its use pre mod 5. I used to use a defence ring myself previously for a touch more survivability.
I do see some people using black ice sets, or dual sets and I do see it as less efficient use, but as long as someone has hv, ie me, I guess it doesn't really matter for a cw if people are zerging.
He was from a major PvE Guild, but said that this was his RPing character, that he hadn't completed any previous campaigns, beaten MC or VT. He had training runestones on his augment Stone and no gear on it. He also had no idea how his gear worked.
I suggested at a bare minimum he needed to run VT and complete it enough to get the end chest weapon set. He replied that all he was doing was buffing and healing, so he didn't need better gear. He was completely clueless about the short duration of HP's set bonus, how hard it is to maintain full stacks on mobs, or that by joining the group he chose he had rendered himself set-less. So all he was contributing was his DPS at 3500 Power and a bad T1 weapon.
And that's a large part of the focus on GS, that sets and buffs and debuffs do not stack with their like at all. So the vast majority of the time, especially in a zerg, your group contribution comes down to the damage that you are able to do, how large and how often you can critical, and whether or not you can survive even a single Legion Devil attack.
Insane GS snobbery is a 26k person telling a 20k person they don't have enough for Tiamat.
But telling someone who *can't be bothered* to clear T1-T2 and earn their sets (like I did), and earn an endgame weapon (or craft one like I did), that they are principally responsible for the instance's failure isn't "snobbery." It's what is. If you can't contribute enough to beat VT in a 5-person group and get a seriously good weapon set, you can't say you have the "skills" to contribute to Tiamat. You are asking to mooch off the time and effort that other people have put into their characters.
I've done Tiamat over 100 times (DC and CW) and never gotten any grief, even when I've zoned in with the 20K+ crowd. For someone to bother to GS check you, you would have had to draw attention to yourself somehow, and that points to poor skills. Like a really bad use of Sunburst on knockback, like that 12k DC I mentioned earlier.
Lag has nothing to do with player skill, gear, or anything else. You find me a player that has never ever lagged out or dc'd during a raid in any mmo and I'll find you a liar.
A DC and a GF can get away with a lower GS due to their roles.
DPS classes can't get away with it. I agree a 16k+ running a split set or BI is just as useless as a 10-12K, but at the same time too many low GS people (even experienced) will not have enough DPS to succeed.
Keep in mind, once all the 20k folks finish up their last boon, you won't be seeing them in there anymore so then you will get to see just how hard Tiamat is with predominantly 12-14k folks in there.
First, Lesser PF does stack with Greater PF. PF's just don't stack with others of the same rank.
And the issue in your group here was that you had two debuff DCs with the exact same 4pc sets that don't stack with each other. It did not matter at all that one was 12k and the other was 18k. If the second DC was also 18k, then the debuffs still wouldn't have stacked.
The problem here was created when the group leader allowed two DC's to be in the group. Tactics runs require more careful choices of party composition. And it's pretty sad that you blame the poor 12k DC for instance's failure when the group leader should have been more cognizant of the group he was forming. That 12k DC would have been a lot more useful in another group that didn't have a DC.
"Nothing to do with skill... or anything else." Wrong. Lag throws off timings and dps due to less actions taken.
"Find me a player that as never... lagged." I'm not talking about never, but if they lag during the battle, it will effect their performance.
Your play time is 3 hours 34 minutes. I wonder which of the two categories I mentioned earlier you're closer to.
Of course lagging makes you less effective, that's like saying the sky is blue. You seem to think that only someone that is a horrible player lags though. That's what makes you wrong. As far as my play time, I have no idea where you are getting that number from. I have wasted far more of my life that that playing this game. That's an evenings playtime for me, and while I tend to play this game for a couple months and then take a break and come back the next module I've been playing far longer than that.
3 hours 34 minutes is reflected on your profile. Yeah, 3 hours doesn't seems like enough time to develop any kind of opinion on this, other than maybe that this whole Tiamat mess isn't worth the time.
"You seem to think that only someone that is a horrible player lags though." No, you misunderstand. I was using a sweeping broad spectrum that encompasses a lot more types of players than the two types I had mentioned. There was no only. I'll do another one: Take lesser geared, laggy, inexperienced, stubborn players (or bots) if you want a challenge. Take well geared players like myself if you want to win.
If you look at it from the point of view of a well geared player, I think it's easy to understand their frustration. They're forced to work with those that won't take the time or make the effort to develop their characters. Perhaps elitism is a form of tough love that the better geared feel that they need to give to motivate the lesser. Sometimes the lesser are driven to do better, sometimes they're lazy, don't have time, don't care, or what not so they have to feel the ire. Tiamat is the crucible. Rise and be the cream, or the stuff below it.