vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited November 2014
agree its not about harm anyone on the very long run. my understanding is that some players can easily get many months of nothing and then relatively big chance of drop two belts in one skirmish if not only one belt. luckily i presumed issues and make passive income of leadership alts to overrun bad months. its only way to survive and not become mad
0
Options
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
Again, speculation is speculation. One only has to look at the AH to see that the drop rate on Legendary necks and belts is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than in Module 4.
So the overall drop rate is higher.
Conspiracy theories on some unknown variable existing that dictates a person's luck are just that. Conspiracy theories.
Message the community manager or one of them directly, don't expect an answer in this thread. It happens occasionally but not reliably.
I have, close to 2 weeks ago. No responce exept a automatically one. I am not surpriced, tho.
At least the majority of the people here agree with me that something isnt working as intended (or working as intended, depends on how you see it.)
Noone will ever convince me that this is a fair RNG considering the huge difference on people over all this months. We are still back to the aspect of the joy of the game for one who has to rely on 50 alts with leadership to get anything of worth on his toon VS one that has so many million AD that he hasnt touched leadership since cristmas.
2 mods, people, 2 mods - many months, hundreds of dragons. RNG in this game = not as you belive, either it is broken (as intended) or the devs acctually dont know that they are driving players away with a bugged loot-system they havent detected.
Its one of either, and nothing can convince me otherwise.
And to answer above - players ARE leaving. I know of 3 so far in just the few weeks i been seriously looking into this. That is not counting the persons I have talked to who has said one of the following:
"im looking for a new game"
"If this dont get fixed im gone"
"I dont know how long i can be bothered with this"
and so forth.
I brought this subject up because I have spendt some serious amount of time talking to people and asking questions. I have a foundation for my claims. And all those answers on this post only hightens that patters I been seeing for so long.
And to answer above - players ARE leaving. I know of 3 so far in just the few weeks i been seriously looking into this.
Yeah, sure but so what. Serious question, what does it actually matter? People will leave for all kinds of reasons, what makes this one so important? I sincerly doubt the game will be devoid of players as a result.
Personally I can't stand the RNG nature of Neverwinter and am looking forward to the next action MMO I can find, have been for ages. I'm still able to find fun in Neverwinter which is why I still play. My attitude shifted many months ago from wanting to earn gear to realising I'm better off just saving AD and buying since I have a full time job and don't have the time to farm.
Good luck though, I would be a positive thing if you're able to get something to change with the RNG.
0
Options
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
The drop rate on belts was abysmal in Module 4. That's why they upped it in Module 5.
Now, as you can see on the AH, lots and lots of belts are dropping. Belts are 1/10 to 1/20 of the cost that they were just a week ago.
There's just no empirical evidence, apart from the fact that you and some friends haven't gotten a belt to drop that suggests anything is wrong with the RNG in this game.
Can you can present some actual data, other than vague suggestions that you "talked to people"?
Contrary to your data I got no valuable drops in Mod 4, but in mod 5 I have already recieved two belt drops from WoD:45 and saw another belt drop in SoT.
I bought some zen here and there, maybe around 2000-3000 in total, playing since release.
From what i remember i never got any good loot when i was "farming" (joining big group farming same event, or repeating to get something).
I DID get loot randomly when i wasn`t focused on that. Like, i helped someone else with one IWD HE and got gloves. Or randomly joined beholder fight when i was just doing dailies and got main hand.
Also i just went and joined one HE in WoD while doing other daily quests, and got imperial cloack. I was like "wat" but yeah, it mostly happens to me when i`m not trying to get something.
Might be luck, might be not. But i think that, instead of tokens, they should increase your loot chance by small .% with every try, that resets with the good drop.
It just feels much more rewarding if you`ll get it as loot, instead of "Yeah, i worked for that 2 hours every day this month and i finally got awesome stuff via tokens. Same stuff that rest just found on the ground triple more times or bought with ZEN."
0
Options
zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
In the past mod I was almost convinced that indeed some of us are "Wi-Flagged". There is no more frustrating thing thatn farming all day for something and never getting it, while you keep seeing the same people getting loots over and over, and not even farm half of what you have. I guess we can blame RNG and our bad lucks, but some certain people seem to be luckier than others, on a consistant basis. I'm not sure if that's just pure luck, but it definitely happens. I remember my endlesss grinds in Valindra for that **** artifact (which was very sweet at its time because.. power) and I've seen guildies that had no clue about said dungeon, go in there once, drop the arti, then win the roll too. It's beyond frustrating, my 3200+ valindra seals were sitting there mocking me. But RNG is far from fair, and like you said some of us are still struggling to max our gear while others just got lucky couple times and got all their things to legendary. Mod 4 I haven't got ANY belts at all, and I've also been farming like crazy. At least I got several dragon gems while they were still expensive, so I made some money. Yesterday, for the very first time, I got my first belt drop. Which sucks, because they are dirt cheap now, but at least now I know my account isn't bugged somehow. In the end, I guess RNG is RNG, and while others win belts and cloaks you might just win the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot rolls and so it evens out for you. I don't still think there is some kind of bug, but gating ALL serious end game content behind RNG is a lousy way to go, and creates all this sort of bad feelings for the unlucky players, that sometimes have farmed 5 or 10 times more than the lucky ones. I still won't forget how many hours I wasted in VT, and how many hours I waste in eLoL and eSoT only to get ZERO results, while others just play twice a week and already have several drops and are making fun of us as if we're doing something wrong! I guess my point is, perhaps instead of looking into RNG as if it's bugged, look at it as if it's NOT the right way to go for so much end game loot. Keep it to few niche things, but not absolutely every end game thing. Still looking for a pair of black ice bracers btw, oh have I farmed that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> alot too....
i play this game since beta i dont farm much either , i didnt see more then 2 belts and 3 books since i play and i won just a belt cuz all of them were from boss drop , never got anything from box or encounters
0
Options
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited November 2014
and one of my guildies have now his lucky day. lath eye and belt. strange...
Again, speculation is speculation. One only has to look at the AH to see that the drop rate on Legendary necks and belts is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than in Module 4.
So the overall drop rate is higher.
Conspiracy theories on some unknown variable existing that dictates a person's luck are just that. Conspiracy theories.
I could care less what the drop rate is since I'm still not getting any drops.
Their buggy code is to blame. I too see the same folks over and over getting 2-3 cloaks a day. I know they aren't lying as I see them up on the AH.
I do the same # of HE's as them and never get a drop.
At the end of the day, their methodology is broken as it gives different people a completely different game experience. Those who get 2-3 drops a day have fun, those who get no drops ever, don't have fun. Each failure to get a cloak or belt should increase your chance such that you are guaranteed to get one after farming x encounters.
Each failure to get a cloak or belt should increase your chance such that you are guaranteed to get one after farming x encounters.
Actually, this mod, that's in the game. Each dragon is 5-15 Dragon Coins, Dragon Coins can be used to buy Linu's Favor, and Linu's Favor can be used to buy cloaks.
Then again, that's 2250 dragons on average to get a cloak, so it'll take a while...
I bought some zen here and there, maybe around 2000-3000 in total,
I don't think $20 will get you out of trouble with RNG.
My experience with Cryptic in STO was this: the great divide is at lifetime subscribers. Those with lifer can unpack a ship with only 3-4 lockboxes opened. I have opened like 400 boxes, no ships. I'm F2P.
I suspect in NW it's the packs. You have pack you get artis, no pack no artis. On my 5 free accounts never got anything meaningful.
You can buy Linu's Favor with Dragon Coins? If so which vendor would that be?
It's a daily quest you can receive once Tiamat is here. You can trade Dragon Coins, Dragon Horde Coffers, or the Purple Horde Treasure you can make via the Dragon Campaign once you have defeated Tiamat 5 times and done the final task. Ironzerg has a ton of posts listing it let me see if I can find it. Here's Ironzerg's Post
When Tiamat goes Live, you'll be able to donate to the treasure hoard to earn Linu's Favor.
For now, just keep stocking up on treasures to throw in there. The quest IS repeatable.
0
Options
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited December 2014
It's pretty obvious that Cryptic WANTS you to get Artifact drops. When they drop (at green level) they're not any better than the epics you're already wearing BUT they act as a time and money sink for you to chase via refinement.
If anything, they would WANT people who are mostly "F2P" to get one, so they then might feel the desire to spend money on the game to upgrade the Artifact, or keep playing long enough to grind it out.
Well, they do want artifacts to drop, but I do not think they want them to drop for the "masses". They would want unused or unwanted artifacts to go on the AH so player would be encouraged to buy AD with Zen. For that to work, there has to be ppl who do not get artifact drops. The RNG and the drop rates and the drop percentages gate this.
If Cryptic wanted everyone to get an artifact drop, the drop percentages and gating for artifacts would be much higher. Not only that, they would let you choose from the list so you would get the one you wanted and start buying RP to feed it.
With token system, you can get one eventually, via time and effort gates. So yes, everyone will have one or what they want eventually. At least in the case of offhands and cloaks. Belts you will either have to get "lucky" or buy one after the market crashes as it has been lately since all these "lucky" ppl are selling off their unwanted belt artifacts.
It's pretty obvious that Cryptic WANTS you to get Artifact drops. When they drop (at green level) they're not any better than the epics you're already wearing BUT they act as a time and money sink for you to chase via refinement.
If anything, they would WANT people who are mostly "F2P" to get one, so they then might feel the desire to spend money on the game to upgrade the Artifact, or keep playing long enough to grind it out.
There's no conspiracy here.
Scuse me... have you acctually read this whole tread? Are you aware that the blizzful drops you so stubbornly say everyone get (but really isnt) is non-existing?
Some people do not get drops. How can you not have understood this by now, I wonder. Sure, I see you point, if people get drops, they make it legendary. BUT- if you add in that :
Some ppl dont get drops = they gotta buy on AH = need to spend money on zen/zenexchange.
Meaning again = some ppl feed the population (via AH) with loot so the poor buggers who never get anything to sell gotta buy it.
You gotta see this by now, this tread is filled with people who has the same game-experience as me: We do not get any rewards, week after week after week, after month, after month.. Do you have empathy enough to understand what the game-experience then become? Can you try to put yourself into that situation? I dont think anyone of the lucky dudes can, instead they seems happy with it. And why shouldnt they? This way they get filthy rich without lifing more then half a finger, ofc they dont want this to and, no sharing with others, nono! Really? Cryptic talk about "this great community" Its not a community, its obviously a community split in two.
I asked a guy today who has more AD than he know what to do with from a endless stream of loot. I asked: what would you do if you were one of those who never get drops?
His answer: I would grind more.
Either he belive that he is the only one on the server who grind, or he is completely oblivious to his suroundings. It should not be nessesary to say by now: Those who dont get drops arent lazy people that dont grind. Usually, like myself, its the oposite. We grind MORE cause we do not get anything, and we try and try and try.
Meaning = grinding 24/7 does not help certain accounts. Like myself. I have more or less given up, yet i wander around in WoD with a completely numb brain from the constant dissapointments, and so do quite a few of my friends who are in the same boat as me.
Just today I got a PM from a friend with the words: I will give it until release of Tiamat, if the same non-existing loot is continuing, i am starting another mmo.
He also explained what mmo he was referring too, so he is quite ready for a new path, but because its not relevant i wont utter the name of the mmmo here.
Needless to day; I have the same thought. I give it until Tiamat. If the drops never come with any books, any artifact - any anything, i will move on. 1 year I have played, non-stop, basically 10-12 hours a day, and I had hoped to stay for a long time, since i enjoy this game. problem is; i am fed up with all the work for absolutely nothing, and all the links of other peoples drops are seriosuly starting to make me feel hate. I know its not the players fault, its the developers, but still... its hard not too when some of this people say; you "just" need to grind more.
Grind more... Sure, i will move into my mothers home and make her bring me food, feed me, then bring me a potty to do my business in so i dont miss a single second of grinding.
Oh wait.. no that wont help, cause..the system is bugged. Nevermind, then.
Quote: There's no conspiracy here.
well spoken words from a happy rich man. Lolzorz
0
Options
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited December 2014
Well...when running skirmishes and doing HE's I find I don't have much luck, but that is fine, I have above average luck in dungeons, where I win 65% of all epic drops and I see things like lanterns of revelation dropping on the 1st boss in epic karru frequently. The bad luck on heroic encounters is made up for by the good luck in dungeons and so I am over all fine with it.
After running my main for a few months & having a lack of success at drops or lockboxes, I started an alt. That alt has been my main farming alt as it tends to get quite a few drops. I'm up to five characters & so far I can say that one alt has a significant amount of luck in comparison to my other characters.
Evidence - My main has had one epic companion from a lockbox & nothing else worth mentioning (artifacts, mounts, etc). Roughly 60 boxes opened. About 1 companion or unique item from CTA's/other events after about 45 runs. Received one boon book out of roughly 100 SoT's & 100 LoL's. Generally 1 epic item & 2 coffers out of every two WoD dragon runs.
My farming alt has had 3 artifacts & around 10 ancient mulhorand items from about 60 lockboxes. Receives 2 or more companions/unique items per CTA/other event after about 45 runs. Has received no unique items from around 100 SoT's & 25 LoL's. Generally 3 epics & 4 coffers from each WoD dragon run.
Other alts haven't been tested this extensively, but they don't tend to do any better than my main. Which is not bad, I'm certainly not saying that I have horrible luck at all. It does seem as though the characters tend to have a weighted RNG.
It may have something to do with class as well. My main is a GF. My farming alt is a GWF. My other alts are HR/SW/TR. That's the best I can give from my experience. Hope this helps
0
Options
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
edited December 2014
A friend is sure that this has to be something with the character / account creation date. Oldest chars get less loot.
This could have sense, we allways talk about how new players will feel, and this can be an artifitial help (Is very discouraging to think about this but makes sense in a marketing perspective)
account, chars creation date? depends about what time we talk. if i play since december-january i am too old have drops?
It's pure speculation. Things like it, seeding, are not unheard of, but a developer would never publicly admit to something like that. My oldest, and first character was created like first day of open beta. He's seen the most drops so I wouldnt put too much merit in it. It most likey is RNG as RNG can be, just RNG is RNG so sometimes people end up on opposite sides of something like a bell curve.
My 2nd most recent HR, has opened as many lockboxes as my original character and has seen 1 grand prize. Oldest character, GWF, saw maybe 3-4.
Comments
So the overall drop rate is higher.
Conspiracy theories on some unknown variable existing that dictates a person's luck are just that. Conspiracy theories.
I have, close to 2 weeks ago. No responce exept a automatically one. I am not surpriced, tho.
At least the majority of the people here agree with me that something isnt working as intended (or working as intended, depends on how you see it.)
Noone will ever convince me that this is a fair RNG considering the huge difference on people over all this months. We are still back to the aspect of the joy of the game for one who has to rely on 50 alts with leadership to get anything of worth on his toon VS one that has so many million AD that he hasnt touched leadership since cristmas.
2 mods, people, 2 mods - many months, hundreds of dragons.
RNG in this game = not as you belive, either it is broken (as intended) or the devs acctually dont know that they are driving players away with a bugged loot-system they havent detected.
Its one of either, and nothing can convince me otherwise.
And to answer above - players ARE leaving. I know of 3 so far in just the few weeks i been seriously looking into this. That is not counting the persons I have talked to who has said one of the following:
"im looking for a new game"
"If this dont get fixed im gone"
"I dont know how long i can be bothered with this"
and so forth.
I brought this subject up because I have spendt some serious amount of time talking to people and asking questions. I have a foundation for my claims. And all those answers on this post only hightens that patters I been seeing for so long.
Yeah, sure but so what. Serious question, what does it actually matter? People will leave for all kinds of reasons, what makes this one so important? I sincerly doubt the game will be devoid of players as a result.
Personally I can't stand the RNG nature of Neverwinter and am looking forward to the next action MMO I can find, have been for ages. I'm still able to find fun in Neverwinter which is why I still play. My attitude shifted many months ago from wanting to earn gear to realising I'm better off just saving AD and buying since I have a full time job and don't have the time to farm.
Good luck though, I would be a positive thing if you're able to get something to change with the RNG.
Now, as you can see on the AH, lots and lots of belts are dropping. Belts are 1/10 to 1/20 of the cost that they were just a week ago.
There's just no empirical evidence, apart from the fact that you and some friends haven't gotten a belt to drop that suggests anything is wrong with the RNG in this game.
Can you can present some actual data, other than vague suggestions that you "talked to people"?
I bought some zen here and there, maybe around 2000-3000 in total, playing since release.
From what i remember i never got any good loot when i was "farming" (joining big group farming same event, or repeating to get something).
I DID get loot randomly when i wasn`t focused on that. Like, i helped someone else with one IWD HE and got gloves. Or randomly joined beholder fight when i was just doing dailies and got main hand.
Also i just went and joined one HE in WoD while doing other daily quests, and got imperial cloack. I was like "wat" but yeah, it mostly happens to me when i`m not trying to get something.
Might be luck, might be not. But i think that, instead of tokens, they should increase your loot chance by small .% with every try, that resets with the good drop.
It just feels much more rewarding if you`ll get it as loot, instead of "Yeah, i worked for that 2 hours every day this month and i finally got awesome stuff via tokens. Same stuff that rest just found on the ground triple more times or bought with ZEN."
I could care less what the drop rate is since I'm still not getting any drops.
Their buggy code is to blame. I too see the same folks over and over getting 2-3 cloaks a day. I know they aren't lying as I see them up on the AH.
I do the same # of HE's as them and never get a drop.
At the end of the day, their methodology is broken as it gives different people a completely different game experience. Those who get 2-3 drops a day have fun, those who get no drops ever, don't have fun. Each failure to get a cloak or belt should increase your chance such that you are guaranteed to get one after farming x encounters.
Actually, this mod, that's in the game. Each dragon is 5-15 Dragon Coins, Dragon Coins can be used to buy Linu's Favor, and Linu's Favor can be used to buy cloaks.
Then again, that's 2250 dragons on average to get a cloak, so it'll take a while...
I don't think $20 will get you out of trouble with RNG.
My experience with Cryptic in STO was this: the great divide is at lifetime subscribers. Those with lifer can unpack a ship with only 3-4 lockboxes opened. I have opened like 400 boxes, no ships. I'm F2P.
I suspect in NW it's the packs. You have pack you get artis, no pack no artis. On my 5 free accounts never got anything meaningful.
It's a daily quest you can receive once Tiamat is here. You can trade Dragon Coins, Dragon Horde Coffers, or the Purple Horde Treasure you can make via the Dragon Campaign once you have defeated Tiamat 5 times and done the final task. Ironzerg has a ton of posts listing it let me see if I can find it. Here's Ironzerg's Post
If anything, they would WANT people who are mostly "F2P" to get one, so they then might feel the desire to spend money on the game to upgrade the Artifact, or keep playing long enough to grind it out.
There's no conspiracy here.
If Cryptic wanted everyone to get an artifact drop, the drop percentages and gating for artifacts would be much higher. Not only that, they would let you choose from the list so you would get the one you wanted and start buying RP to feed it.
With token system, you can get one eventually, via time and effort gates. So yes, everyone will have one or what they want eventually. At least in the case of offhands and cloaks. Belts you will either have to get "lucky" or buy one after the market crashes as it has been lately since all these "lucky" ppl are selling off their unwanted belt artifacts.
Scuse me... have you acctually read this whole tread? Are you aware that the blizzful drops you so stubbornly say everyone get (but really isnt) is non-existing?
Some people do not get drops. How can you not have understood this by now, I wonder. Sure, I see you point, if people get drops, they make it legendary. BUT- if you add in that :
Some ppl dont get drops = they gotta buy on AH = need to spend money on zen/zenexchange.
Meaning again = some ppl feed the population (via AH) with loot so the poor buggers who never get anything to sell gotta buy it.
You gotta see this by now, this tread is filled with people who has the same game-experience as me: We do not get any rewards, week after week after week, after month, after month.. Do you have empathy enough to understand what the game-experience then become? Can you try to put yourself into that situation? I dont think anyone of the lucky dudes can, instead they seems happy with it. And why shouldnt they? This way they get filthy rich without lifing more then half a finger, ofc they dont want this to and, no sharing with others, nono! Really? Cryptic talk about "this great community" Its not a community, its obviously a community split in two.
I asked a guy today who has more AD than he know what to do with from a endless stream of loot. I asked: what would you do if you were one of those who never get drops?
His answer: I would grind more.
Either he belive that he is the only one on the server who grind, or he is completely oblivious to his suroundings. It should not be nessesary to say by now: Those who dont get drops arent lazy people that dont grind. Usually, like myself, its the oposite. We grind MORE cause we do not get anything, and we try and try and try.
Meaning = grinding 24/7 does not help certain accounts. Like myself. I have more or less given up, yet i wander around in WoD with a completely numb brain from the constant dissapointments, and so do quite a few of my friends who are in the same boat as me.
Just today I got a PM from a friend with the words: I will give it until release of Tiamat, if the same non-existing loot is continuing, i am starting another mmo.
He also explained what mmo he was referring too, so he is quite ready for a new path, but because its not relevant i wont utter the name of the mmmo here.
Needless to day; I have the same thought. I give it until Tiamat. If the drops never come with any books, any artifact - any anything, i will move on. 1 year I have played, non-stop, basically 10-12 hours a day, and I had hoped to stay for a long time, since i enjoy this game. problem is; i am fed up with all the work for absolutely nothing, and all the links of other peoples drops are seriosuly starting to make me feel hate. I know its not the players fault, its the developers, but still... its hard not too when some of this people say; you "just" need to grind more.
Grind more... Sure, i will move into my mothers home and make her bring me food, feed me, then bring me a potty to do my business in so i dont miss a single second of grinding.
Oh wait.. no that wont help, cause..the system is bugged. Nevermind, then.
Quote: There's no conspiracy here.
well spoken words from a happy rich man. Lolzorz
Evidence - My main has had one epic companion from a lockbox & nothing else worth mentioning (artifacts, mounts, etc). Roughly 60 boxes opened. About 1 companion or unique item from CTA's/other events after about 45 runs. Received one boon book out of roughly 100 SoT's & 100 LoL's. Generally 1 epic item & 2 coffers out of every two WoD dragon runs.
My farming alt has had 3 artifacts & around 10 ancient mulhorand items from about 60 lockboxes. Receives 2 or more companions/unique items per CTA/other event after about 45 runs. Has received no unique items from around 100 SoT's & 25 LoL's. Generally 3 epics & 4 coffers from each WoD dragon run.
Other alts haven't been tested this extensively, but they don't tend to do any better than my main. Which is not bad, I'm certainly not saying that I have horrible luck at all. It does seem as though the characters tend to have a weighted RNG.
It may have something to do with class as well. My main is a GF. My farming alt is a GWF. My other alts are HR/SW/TR. That's the best I can give from my experience. Hope this helps
This could have sense, we allways talk about how new players will feel, and this can be an artifitial help (Is very discouraging to think about this but makes sense in a marketing perspective)
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
It's pure speculation. Things like it, seeding, are not unheard of, but a developer would never publicly admit to something like that. My oldest, and first character was created like first day of open beta. He's seen the most drops so I wouldnt put too much merit in it. It most likey is RNG as RNG can be, just RNG is RNG so sometimes people end up on opposite sides of something like a bell curve.
My 2nd most recent HR, has opened as many lockboxes as my original character and has seen 1 grand prize. Oldest character, GWF, saw maybe 3-4.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas