Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
Stupid was when mage class was best in pvp in mod 4 and assasin class was the weakiest class in pvp, i have never ever seen it in other mmo. That is stupid that control class which should require time to cast spells and be squishy has faster powers, more defence with shield and freezing everyone to death.
in other mmorpg, when trs use a skill they lose their stealth. and trs have never ever been the weakest in pvp. never
in other mmorpg, when trs use a skill they lose their stealth. and trs have never ever been the weakest in pvp. never
True. TRs (along with HRs) were the best backcappers in mod 4. This was the weakest mod for the TR and they are still essential to a group. That says something to how powerful the TRs are in the history of this game. DCs and GFs were less useful imo.
lol TR was actually one of the best in pvp in mod 4 next to a good HR probably. It was in PVE where the class fell behind.
I wouldn't say the TR was one of the best. HRs were gods, then followed by CWs and intimidation GWF. Along with that, you need a good backcapper and so that's where the TR comes in. It had an essential role, but it was not overpowered. If a premade didn't have a TR, they would need to waste 2 of their members to the enemy node just to survive.
So overall, there's not been *any* time in which TRs have been a weak class in PvP, and taking the history of the game as a whole, TRs have undeniably been the overall most effective PvP class in terms of their ability to win games.
I also do not remember any time in which the TRs were the worst PVP class in the game. I know a couple of different times when they were the best though
No mate, just no. Bad players had problems, true... But a skilled/intelligent TR caused lots of trouble to anybody.
Mod 4 worst class = DC.
A lot of trouble lol. Just lol! If a lot of trouble is that you can't do anything but survive against op hr in last mod then you are right. I don't care about people with lack of ambition. I do care about people who respect themselves, who want to actually be threat, to actually be the one respected not mocked by op hr who you won't kill no matter what. People who respect themselves won't allow being spitted at mocked and treated as trash as TR was in last module. Same geared TR and HR-TR could do nothing else but survive. Killing DC in last module was possible with executioner and dc artefact and glyphs before nerf. After that DC would overheal all that dmg no matter how much you would sweat there to kill him. That is why like i said already TR was weakiest class. There was no advantage for team, because TR would not kill same geared any class(i don't count other TR). All that enemy had to do is to send whatever class they have and was least productive on other points just to stalemate TR or simply crush him like worm-HR.
Class which is productive is the one giving you advantage. TR gave 0 advantage against intelligent enemies-they would simply send weakiest on TR point and deal with rest on other points. I don't count teams who would send few people on TR just to kill him because it's very bad leaving rest points, because they are not worth of note.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Why is it when other striker class is OP very few complains, but when TR is on par with their class gangs complain? In mod 4 people curse and mock TR because all it can do is hold a node, irritate other players and nothing more not to mention it isnt welcome in dungeon raids because what it can do other class can do it 3x better.
This capstone seems a bit underwhelming in PvE compared to the others (assuming the fixed SoD). Many targets are not affected by daze (virtually every boss) making this completely useless on them, but even considering those that are affected by it the result is not quite on par with the other paths. It needs a little more and I have a few ideas but maybe others will have better.
Include a debuff that can affect all (or most) targets such as a 25% reduction in target damage/slow/etc
or
Change it to a stun instead of a daze
or
Make it a daze that can affect most targets
or
Increase the amount of bonus damage done by the rogue to the affected target and give it a different icon than the standard daze (or a different color so we can differentiate it) and allow this damage even to those targets immune to daze.
or
An even better idea submitted by another Trickster Rogue
I have a lot of problems with the Scoundrel tree, and this is one of them. Honestly, the only worthwhile feat in there is the one that grants dazes on crits: the deflection and lifesteal in the early ranks are worse than their Heroic versions, the second-rank feats are worse than that, and the fourth and fifth-ranked feats only work on dazed targets or grant you +10% Deflection when you go into stealth, which is especially unhelpful for the Scoundrel because that tree doesn't have any stealth-generating abilities.
But since we're focused on Skullcracker:
The daze needs to work on CC-immune targets. This makes Skullcracker AND the rank-4 feat work on bosses. I don't care if the daze stops CC-immune targets from attacking, I just want them to count as dazed for the damage feats.
Skullcracker needs to affect all targets hit by the encounter. If I start a fight with Blitz in a mob of enemies, Skullcracker activates only on one of them, and it seems completely random which one it is. I want it to turn my non-daze powers into dazing ones, like it says it does, not just only work with single-target encounters; as a Scoundrel, dazing things is my job, so I'm running Dazing Strike, Blitz (for AoE dazes from behind/when it crits) and Smokebomb. That leaves nowhere for Skullcracker to activate, because my only single-target spell already dazes, and two dazes is a huge waste. Or, more often than not, three dazes, since if dazing strike crits or hits from behind, it activates the rank-3 feat for some reason.
SoD on latest preview patch is not WAI only seems to apply the last hit of dmg you did to the mob.
a 30k LB will hit for 15k after 6 seconds if u don't attack again.
While a 12k smoke bomb will hit for 600 after 6 seconds.
PS its always good to try both ends of the balance i just feel we went a little to far both ways with this.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited November 2014
Baha, the previous feat is stronger than the capstone now. Monster nerf for PVE, still, 300% boosted LB nothing to laugh at in PVP.
Honestly, if this mod 5 lashing blade is going to stay, it needs to be a tad bit easier to spot in pvp.
Indeed, if the Scoundrel is the CC/Damage tree of the TR then it should be better at one area (or on par in all) over another CC/DPS class/tree. Currently the CW has superior CC and superior Damage over the scoundrel (including superior single target damage). Survivability also favors the CW as well as range. I think the scoundrel is close to being correct with a few tweaks still needed (I am not sure the deflect and lifesteal are enough) and the capstone needs to be a bit more effective, but I think the CW is doing too well in damage (was supposed to be addressed last module and they only made it different and easier, also the SW is still buggy with it's melt a room in a second powers). I am speaking of PvE here.
On preview SoD doesnt count any damage within this 6 seconds after activating SoD.
It hits for 300 if you activate SoD with cloud of steel or any other low dmg skill.
SoD on latest preview patch is not WAI only seems to apply the last hit of dmg you did to the mob.
a 30k LB will hit for 15k after 6 seconds if u don't attack again.
While a 12k smoke bomb will hit for 600 after 6 seconds.
PS its always good to try both ends of the balance i just feel we went a little to far both ways with this.
I confirm that it's still not Working as Intended in preview it deals only half of the damage you dealt WHILE applying the stack of Shadow of Demise, it doesn't use any of the damage dealt in the 6 second window during which SoD is active
can't say if the damage applied with the SoD tick is being resisted, it's difficult for me to mine information out of the log during a normal fight, there might be a potential bug here
Another problem is that plague fire enchantment sometimes adds another stack of SoD, some other times adds 3 or 4 additional stacks
( depends on how many times plague fire ticks a few instants before the damage from the encounter is applied )
for example I noticed that some at wills and powers stack SoD 4 times (Duelist's Flurry, Dazing Strike) , and some other stack SoD 2 times (Smoke Bomb, CoS, Blitz, SE, LB)
Smoke Bomb doesn't apply SoD if cast from stealth Path of the Blade doesn't apply SoD if cast from stealth
Deft Strike doesn't apply SoD at all
( if I cast DS with a plague fire enchantment, the only stack of SoD applied is the one applied with the Plague Fire )
I practiced without any feats and the rework of powers/at wills/dailies alone felt good
but we still need a reward to balance the stealth nerf (to which corresponds less survivability) and leaving SoD the way it's today on preview would be a huge waste of all the progress made until now.
Since only feats got a reset, not abilities nor boons, my build is still best suited as a damage dealer MI Exe and I had many problems surviving damage on eSoT (did not test eLoL yet)
for example I have trouble against that axe warriors after the first door
(and obviously problems against the boss and its superfast attacks)
I mean, if I can't survive like before at least give me more damage! If I have to die at least let me be of help to my team by dealing a big portion of damage!
To get smoke bomb to apply it you have to cast it then stealth before the 1st dmg tick after a second. no idea why
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mojoratMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited November 2014
I think SOD should revert to only working off direct damage encounter powers. It actually removes alot of the extra fiddly bits that seem to be causing the current issues. Lashing Blade Blitz etc.
Closing as these have changes have since gone live. If you have any concerns or comments about the LIVE changes, please post them in the appropriate class forum. Thank you.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Comments
True. TRs (along with HRs) were the best backcappers in mod 4. This was the weakest mod for the TR and they are still essential to a group. That says something to how powerful the TRs are in the history of this game. DCs and GFs were less useful imo.
I wouldn't say the TR was one of the best. HRs were gods, then followed by CWs and intimidation GWF. Along with that, you need a good backcapper and so that's where the TR comes in. It had an essential role, but it was not overpowered. If a premade didn't have a TR, they would need to waste 2 of their members to the enemy node just to survive.
I also do not remember any time in which the TRs were the worst PVP class in the game. I know a couple of different times when they were the best though
Mod 4 TR worst class. If any premade ever took TR only 1 max and other class they would stack without problem.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
you were the worst TR on mod 4, and now the dumbest in mod 5
A lot of trouble lol. Just lol! If a lot of trouble is that you can't do anything but survive against op hr in last mod then you are right. I don't care about people with lack of ambition. I do care about people who respect themselves, who want to actually be threat, to actually be the one respected not mocked by op hr who you won't kill no matter what. People who respect themselves won't allow being spitted at mocked and treated as trash as TR was in last module. Same geared TR and HR-TR could do nothing else but survive. Killing DC in last module was possible with executioner and dc artefact and glyphs before nerf. After that DC would overheal all that dmg no matter how much you would sweat there to kill him. That is why like i said already TR was weakiest class. There was no advantage for team, because TR would not kill same geared any class(i don't count other TR). All that enemy had to do is to send whatever class they have and was least productive on other points just to stalemate TR or simply crush him like worm-HR.
Class which is productive is the one giving you advantage. TR gave 0 advantage against intelligent enemies-they would simply send weakiest on TR point and deal with rest on other points. I don't count teams who would send few people on TR just to kill him because it's very bad leaving rest points, because they are not worth of note.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
This capstone seems a bit underwhelming in PvE compared to the others (assuming the fixed SoD). Many targets are not affected by daze (virtually every boss) making this completely useless on them, but even considering those that are affected by it the result is not quite on par with the other paths. It needs a little more and I have a few ideas but maybe others will have better.
Include a debuff that can affect all (or most) targets such as a 25% reduction in target damage/slow/etc
or
Change it to a stun instead of a daze
or
Make it a daze that can affect most targets
or
Increase the amount of bonus damage done by the rogue to the affected target and give it a different icon than the standard daze (or a different color so we can differentiate it) and allow this damage even to those targets immune to daze.
or
An even better idea submitted by another Trickster Rogue
I have a lot of problems with the Scoundrel tree, and this is one of them. Honestly, the only worthwhile feat in there is the one that grants dazes on crits: the deflection and lifesteal in the early ranks are worse than their Heroic versions, the second-rank feats are worse than that, and the fourth and fifth-ranked feats only work on dazed targets or grant you +10% Deflection when you go into stealth, which is especially unhelpful for the Scoundrel because that tree doesn't have any stealth-generating abilities.
But since we're focused on Skullcracker:
The daze needs to work on CC-immune targets. This makes Skullcracker AND the rank-4 feat work on bosses. I don't care if the daze stops CC-immune targets from attacking, I just want them to count as dazed for the damage feats.
Skullcracker needs to affect all targets hit by the encounter. If I start a fight with Blitz in a mob of enemies, Skullcracker activates only on one of them, and it seems completely random which one it is. I want it to turn my non-daze powers into dazing ones, like it says it does, not just only work with single-target encounters; as a Scoundrel, dazing things is my job, so I'm running Dazing Strike, Blitz (for AoE dazes from behind/when it crits) and Smokebomb. That leaves nowhere for Skullcracker to activate, because my only single-target spell already dazes, and two dazes is a huge waste. Or, more often than not, three dazes, since if dazing strike crits or hits from behind, it activates the rank-3 feat for some reason.
rly man? are u ******? why u always qq about TR's? this class 100% OP now, be happy...
really man what? i told you it doesnt work wtf of reasoning is yours? #nevergofullr****d
Somehow, every mod will have 1-2 overpowered classes. It is now your turn.
a 30k LB will hit for 15k after 6 seconds if u don't attack again.
While a 12k smoke bomb will hit for 600 after 6 seconds.
PS its always good to try both ends of the balance i just feel we went a little to far both ways with this.
Honestly, if this mod 5 lashing blade is going to stay, it needs to be a tad bit easier to spot in pvp.
It hits for 300 if you activate SoD with cloud of steel or any other low dmg skill.
it deals only half of the damage you dealt WHILE applying the stack of Shadow of Demise, it doesn't use any of the damage dealt in the 6 second window during which SoD is active
can't say if the damage applied with the SoD tick is being resisted, it's difficult for me to mine information out of the log during a normal fight, there might be a potential bug here
Another problem is that plague fire enchantment sometimes adds another stack of SoD, some other times adds 3 or 4 additional stacks
( depends on how many times plague fire ticks a few instants before the damage from the encounter is applied )
for example I noticed that some at wills and powers stack SoD 4 times (Duelist's Flurry, Dazing Strike) , and some other stack SoD 2 times (Smoke Bomb, CoS, Blitz, SE, LB)
Smoke Bomb doesn't apply SoD if cast from stealth
Path of the Blade doesn't apply SoD if cast from stealth
Deft Strike doesn't apply SoD at all
( if I cast DS with a plague fire enchantment, the only stack of SoD applied is the one applied with the Plague Fire )
I practiced without any feats and the rework of powers/at wills/dailies alone felt good
but we still need a reward to balance the stealth nerf (to which corresponds less survivability) and leaving SoD the way it's today on preview would be a huge waste of all the progress made until now.
Since only feats got a reset, not abilities nor boons, my build is still best suited as a damage dealer MI Exe and I had many problems surviving damage on eSoT (did not test eLoL yet)
for example I have trouble against that axe warriors after the first door
(and obviously problems against the boss and its superfast attacks)
I mean, if I can't survive like before at least give me more damage! If I have to die at least let me be of help to my team by dealing a big portion of damage!
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com