PvE TR here.
I tested the "bugged" feat. i can deal up 3-4 million damage on a puppet. On the live server it is nearly 1 million. But i used a plague fire, loghtfoot thiefe and path of blades to generate more stacks.
The lightfoot thiefe increase my damage by 500.000 damage.
My DPS on a single target is by 35.000 to 40.000 on preview. On live i have 15.000. GWFs and HR can easily have 22.000+
One of my guildmates must have something arround 30.000 DPS.
My opinion: In PvE it should be no problem because it is single target damage. In PvP it could be a harder, don't know needs more testing.
It is working well, it should just not proc weapon enchantment cause it's too much then. Other than that executioner has low survivability so he needs that dmg.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I guess in PvE it's the TRs ability to disarm traps people are looking for, instead of damage.
lol no.
What you TRs want to be really desired in PvE is:
- different dungeon design. No more 10-15 mobs/trash pack, but 1-2 huge elite that needs stuns/interruption and 2-3 other smaller mobs that can be AoEd.
- different and diverse boss fights. Sure one boss could be a zerg fest, but not all. Some bosses should specifically go after ranged targets often, decreasing their efficiency. When a raid was 4 boss fights where boss was alone, and 4 boss fights that spawned adds, we needed rogue AND mage types plenty in WoW. This is how you do it.
- much, much fewer full circular telegraphs. Such as dragon wing flap. Made them a cone, so melee DPS can dodge and continue DPS, instead of having to run the hell away from dragon when he goes up, and back on, losing precious DPS.
These changes would make the TR a GREAT PvE class - even on mod 4 Live, with same/better DPS than the SW/CW/GWF, which would be starved for DPS since fewer situations are AoE intensive.
- different dungeon design. No more 10-15 mobs/trash pack, but 1-2 huge elite that needs stuns/interruption and 2-3 other smaller mobs that can be AoEd.
- different and diverse boss fights. Sure one boss could be a zerg fest, but not all. Some bosses should specifically go after ranged targets often, decreasing their efficiency. When a raid was 4 boss fights where boss was alone, and 4 boss fights that spawned adds, we needed rogue AND mage types plenty in WoW. This is how you do it.
- much, much fewer full circular telegraphs. Such as dragon wing flap. Made them a cone, so melee DPS can dodge and continue DPS, instead of having to run the hell away from dragon when he goes up, and back on, losing precious DPS.
These changes would make the TR a GREAT PvE class - even on mod 4 Live, with same/better DPS than the SW/CW/GWF, which would be starved for DPS since fewer situations are AoE intensive.
No need to thank me.
Thanks !!
My mistake, I thought it was the TR changes feedback thread, and I accidentally posted in the "Dungeon design / boss fights" thread.
My bad.
No need to use my short and sarcastic post to forward an agenda, be it correct or not, the fact is no one changing any dungeons. The changes are to the classes....
What you suggested is to change the setting so the TR will do more damage relative to others, nothing different from what i said at the end result -> more damage.
More so there are enough threads about single target dps with comparable gear of TRs and other classes, I wont repeat old stories and info about TR builds that will go away in 2 hours and how those other classes can outdps/or stay close to a TR on single targets.
(ACTed and Tested-> so making single target dungeon wont help alone)
Also I do not know what classes you play but post in TR feedback thread with "you TRs" looks already like trolling to some extent.
i hope we will keep it for at least 2 weeks before someone "fix" it.
I prefer these things to be fixed before they go live, but we know how long it took them to fix many issues (e.g. SW damage bugs that still exist today). I am trying to think if there has been a period of time that a very serious and imbalancing bug has not been in the game?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
No, They are not bad.
Just, they are not enough, before the changes if to take a TR and correctly speced/loaded for single target CW, the CW will win/ or stay close enought damage wise on single target, so is GWF. (I'm talking about best vs best)
Imo, it's combination of factors like long time damage windup (I hope I use the term correctly), not so good scale with gear, some burst nerfs and others all together made the TR lackluster even in optimal for it environment, so again, not bad, just not enough.
It looks like the new dungeons/skirmishes like epic lostmauth, starting with kessels and up to new tiamat are indeed moving in that direction and I think they are more interesting to everyone compared to CN for example.
I'm a great believer that TR should shine on single targets and not be a second melee HR or some utility CC, saying that TR brings +5% crit chance or smoke bomb for a striker class is like buying a Ferrari for the cup holders... (some mention it as TRs benefit to the group)
TR should do one job best, and have a need for that job in the dungeons, today the TRs don't do their single target good enough, and the dungeons lack the need for them (more prominant in the older designs)
btw, I apologize if i misinterpreted the 'tone' of your post, this thread makes me paranoid.
I'm a great believer that TR should shine on single targets and not be a second melee HR or some utility CC, saying that TR brings +5% crit chance or smoke bomb for a striker class is like buying a Ferrari for the cup holders... (some mention it as TRs benefit to the group)
TR should do one job best, and have a need for that job in the dungeons, today the TRs don't do their single target good enough, and the dungeons lack the need for them (more prominant in the older designs)
I agree.
PvE is a cooperative mode. All classes need to be strong and needed. The boss won't cry if he gets hit with a 500K Lashing.
However, people will cry, and rightfully so, if they put lots of effort in developing a pure DPS char that does less DPS than the CC/Tank/AoE hybrids.
Rogues should be masters of insane single target damage and CC in PvE and this needs to be implemented without making them one shot people in PvP though
Problem is the developers of this game are unable to tweak things up properly and pretty much each change negatively affects either PvP or PvE.
technically, rogues don't win the single-target dps fest before this update hits. practically every other class can win in single-target dps simply due to the fact that they can keep attacking immediately after a dodge (need to dodge is the greatest failing of a rogue). warlocks are also more single-target than aoe but they can still do decent aoe.
aoe circles are nice and all but majority of us can just use itc and tank it. some exaggerate about the aoes damage and some lack the skill to dodge when itc is on cooldown. you might be referencing for less of a necessity to dodge things which would be nice but i wouldn't get my hopes up of all aoe circles being stripped.
PvE is a cooperative mode. All classes need to be strong and needed. The boss won't cry if he gets hit with a 500K Lashing.
However, people will cry, and rightfully so, if they put lots of effort in developing a pure DPS char that does less DPS than the CC/Tank/AoE hybrids.
Rogues should be masters of insane single target damage and CC in PvE and this needs to be implemented without making them one shot people in PvP though
Problem is the developers of this game are unable to tweak things up properly and pretty much each change negatively affects either PvP or PvE.
easiest way would be to just balance dps for pvp and implement a pve-only class mechanic that multiplies a rogue's dps by a magnitude against monsters. plenty of things already differentiate mobs from players so it should be simple (frost enchant is a good example of it).
That was indeed one of the big problems TR faced on live -- they were not even the best single target damage. Two elites would always favor GWF/SW/HR/CW even if those classes were lower geared/skilled. When gear/skill was equal even a single boss would favor those classes and this was mostly due to TR damage attrition over the modules I suppose. Now some say damage doesn't matter, and while I agree that the game is a bit too easy and should be more complex/challenging we all know the truth of what LFG channel reveals.
I would indeed have preferred to have a great single target damage, but it's not the direction the devs wanted to go.
Still I love most of the new changes.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
That was indeed one of the big problems TR faced on live -- they were not even the best single target damage. Two elites would always favor GWF/SW/HR/CW even if those classes were lower geared/skilled. When gear/skill was equal even a single boss would favor those classes and this was mostly due to TR damage attrition over the modules I suppose. Now some say damage doesn't matter, and while I agree that the game is a bit too easy and should be more complex/challenging we all know the truth of what LFG channel reveals.
It's even not about the easy content (or the LFG channel), that I think we all agree is extremely easy, it's about the simple fact that after optimizing, getting gear and investing effort in a class i want something to show for my effort even when ACT on a dummy. This is not about ego, epeening, or anything similar, just a return for my time invested. What the point of improving if a class will always be a second rate in it's own single function.
It's even not about the easy content (or the LFG channel), that I think we all agree is extremely easy, it's about the simple fact that after optimizing, getting gear and investing effort in a class i want something to show for my effort even when ACT on a dummy. This is not about ego, epeening, or anything similar, just a return for my time invested. What the point of improving if a class will always be a second rate in it's own single function.
I agree with you on that. I am a fairly competitive person in real life, but not the sort that has to win all the time (I would much more prefer to lose a close contest than I would to win an easy one). I want that uncertain outcome where my decisions and efforts in preparation increase my chances but with no guarantees of any certain victory. I don't like using gimmicks to add to this (such as hitting the space bar a bunch to jump and thus exploiting the flaws in certain targeting aspects of the game) but prefer resource over time limited/positioning/opportunistic methods.
Mucking about on the preview I seem to have stumbled on a bug I don't recall having been mentioned here. The stealth bar became stuck at 4/5 full (out of stealth) and neither time nor SS affects this. This persists through death.
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treecool91Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
BUG: EXECUTIONER - SHADOW BORN
the feat does not apply if there is a continuous damage source in between.
example:
stealth ----> lashing blade ---->35.5k damage done
path of the blade ----> stealth
> lashing blade
> 20k damage done
or
duelist flurry
> bleeds
> stealth
> lashing blade ----> 20k damage done.
basically you dont get the 100% more power if a continuous damage source is doing its job.
proof is that damage of bleeds does not increase.
nothing is broken TR is on CW level now, why is it when GWF and CW is OP no one complains? but when TR is on par with other damaging class it always becomes or worst made an issue which should be not. Crab mentality is destroying this game you hypocrites are annoying.
dude. i nearly instant killed lostmauth without going into the second phase. and killed the spider in under 15 seconds.
I feel we were in the same party
When you have a boss alone and do a BB its 4 million dmg.
Needs a Stack cap above 1 as exec would be weak with it only ticking once
nothing is broken TR is on CW level now, why is it when GWF and CW is OP no one complains? but when TR is on par with other damaging class it always becomes or worst made an issue which should be not. Crab mentality is destroying this game you hypocrites are annoying.
because you can be in stealth while doing that ammount of dmg. only gwfs can be defensive and still have some offensive capabilities like their unstoppable. Stealth is arguably the strongest defensive mechanism in the game. Allow trs to attack from stealth and still dish our huge amounts of damage has always caused unbalance issues. We are once again experiencing it in this mod.
like I hit hard because of a BB with red glyphs. adds 30 ish stacks then potb smoke u end up with 60 stacks end it with a LB and 4 mill.
Its stupid and im saving my respec token for when they fix it.
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
Stupid was when mage class was best in pvp in mod 4 and assasin class was the weakiest class in pvp, i have never ever seen it in other mmo. That is stupid that control class which should require time to cast spells and be squishy has faster powers, more defence with shield and freezing everyone to death.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
i never understood this. it's only purpose was to peel stealth but eventually every perma will be immune to stealth damage or does it pierce even 100% immunity?
Comments
It is working well, it should just not proc weapon enchantment cause it's too much then. Other than that executioner has low survivability so he needs that dmg.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
lol no.
What you TRs want to be really desired in PvE is:
- different dungeon design. No more 10-15 mobs/trash pack, but 1-2 huge elite that needs stuns/interruption and 2-3 other smaller mobs that can be AoEd.
- different and diverse boss fights. Sure one boss could be a zerg fest, but not all. Some bosses should specifically go after ranged targets often, decreasing their efficiency. When a raid was 4 boss fights where boss was alone, and 4 boss fights that spawned adds, we needed rogue AND mage types plenty in WoW. This is how you do it.
- much, much fewer full circular telegraphs. Such as dragon wing flap. Made them a cone, so melee DPS can dodge and continue DPS, instead of having to run the hell away from dragon when he goes up, and back on, losing precious DPS.
These changes would make the TR a GREAT PvE class - even on mod 4 Live, with same/better DPS than the SW/CW/GWF, which would be starved for DPS since fewer situations are AoE intensive.
No need to thank me.
i like it
i hope we will keep it for at least 2 weeks before someone "fix" it.
Thanks !!
My mistake, I thought it was the TR changes feedback thread, and I accidentally posted in the "Dungeon design / boss fights" thread.
My bad.
No need to use my short and sarcastic post to forward an agenda, be it correct or not, the fact is no one changing any dungeons. The changes are to the classes....
What you suggested is to change the setting so the TR will do more damage relative to others, nothing different from what i said at the end result -> more damage.
More so there are enough threads about single target dps with comparable gear of TRs and other classes, I wont repeat old stories and info about TR builds that will go away in 2 hours and how those other classes can outdps/or stay close to a TR on single targets.
(ACTed and Tested-> so making single target dungeon wont help alone)
Also I do not know what classes you play but post in TR feedback thread with "you TRs" looks already like trolling to some extent.
I prefer these things to be fixed before they go live, but we know how long it took them to fix many issues (e.g. SW damage bugs that still exist today). I am trying to think if there has been a period of time that a very serious and imbalancing bug has not been in the game?
HR and CW need fix, not TR.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Yes that's great idea also, it stacks on mobs and bosses but not on players.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Are my suggestions bad for PvE TRs?
No, They are not bad.
Just, they are not enough, before the changes if to take a TR and correctly speced/loaded for single target CW, the CW will win/ or stay close enought damage wise on single target, so is GWF. (I'm talking about best vs best)
Imo, it's combination of factors like long time damage windup (I hope I use the term correctly), not so good scale with gear, some burst nerfs and others all together made the TR lackluster even in optimal for it environment, so again, not bad, just not enough.
It looks like the new dungeons/skirmishes like epic lostmauth, starting with kessels and up to new tiamat are indeed moving in that direction and I think they are more interesting to everyone compared to CN for example.
I'm a great believer that TR should shine on single targets and not be a second melee HR or some utility CC, saying that TR brings +5% crit chance or smoke bomb for a striker class is like buying a Ferrari for the cup holders... (some mention it as TRs benefit to the group)
TR should do one job best, and have a need for that job in the dungeons, today the TRs don't do their single target good enough, and the dungeons lack the need for them (more prominant in the older designs)
btw, I apologize if i misinterpreted the 'tone' of your post, this thread makes me paranoid.
I agree.
PvE is a cooperative mode. All classes need to be strong and needed. The boss won't cry if he gets hit with a 500K Lashing.
However, people will cry, and rightfully so, if they put lots of effort in developing a pure DPS char that does less DPS than the CC/Tank/AoE hybrids.
Rogues should be masters of insane single target damage and CC in PvE and this needs to be implemented without making them one shot people in PvP though
Problem is the developers of this game are unable to tweak things up properly and pretty much each change negatively affects either PvP or PvE.
technically, rogues don't win the single-target dps fest before this update hits. practically every other class can win in single-target dps simply due to the fact that they can keep attacking immediately after a dodge (need to dodge is the greatest failing of a rogue). warlocks are also more single-target than aoe but they can still do decent aoe.
aoe circles are nice and all but majority of us can just use itc and tank it. some exaggerate about the aoes damage and some lack the skill to dodge when itc is on cooldown. you might be referencing for less of a necessity to dodge things which would be nice but i wouldn't get my hopes up of all aoe circles being stripped.
easiest way would be to just balance dps for pvp and implement a pve-only class mechanic that multiplies a rogue's dps by a magnitude against monsters. plenty of things already differentiate mobs from players so it should be simple (frost enchant is a good example of it).
Still I love most of the new changes.
It's even not about the easy content (or the LFG channel), that I think we all agree is extremely easy, it's about the simple fact that after optimizing, getting gear and investing effort in a class i want something to show for my effort even when ACT on a dummy. This is not about ego, epeening, or anything similar, just a return for my time invested. What the point of improving if a class will always be a second rate in it's own single function.
I agree with you on that. I am a fairly competitive person in real life, but not the sort that has to win all the time (I would much more prefer to lose a close contest than I would to win an easy one). I want that uncertain outcome where my decisions and efforts in preparation increase my chances but with no guarantees of any certain victory. I don't like using gimmicks to add to this (such as hitting the space bar a bunch to jump and thus exploiting the flaws in certain targeting aspects of the game) but prefer resource over time limited/positioning/opportunistic methods.
UP.............................................
Does it really matter if they fix TR?
What after that?
HR? Then what?
CW? GWF? GF?
Then again TR OP?
It's not like the cycle of rotating broken OP classes is hard to notice, is it?
Maybe it's even intentional
I feel we were in the same party
When you have a boss alone and do a BB its 4 million dmg.
Needs a Stack cap above 1 as exec would be weak with it only ticking once
Its stupid and im saving my respec token for when they fix it.
because you can be in stealth while doing that ammount of dmg. only gwfs can be defensive and still have some offensive capabilities like their unstoppable. Stealth is arguably the strongest defensive mechanism in the game. Allow trs to attack from stealth and still dish our huge amounts of damage has always caused unbalance issues. We are once again experiencing it in this mod.
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
Stupid was when mage class was best in pvp in mod 4 and assasin class was the weakiest class in pvp, i have never ever seen it in other mmo. That is stupid that control class which should require time to cast spells and be squishy has faster powers, more defence with shield and freezing everyone to death.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
i never understood this. it's only purpose was to peel stealth but eventually every perma will be immune to stealth damage or does it pierce even 100% immunity?