I would indeed have preferred to have a great single target damage, but it's not the direction the devs wanted to go.
Still I love most of the new changes.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
That was indeed one of the big problems TR faced on live -- they were not even the best single target damage. Two elites would always favor GWF/SW/HR/CW even if those classes were lower geared/skilled. When gear/skill was equal even a single boss would favor those classes and this was mostly due to TR damage attrition over the modules I suppose. Now some say damage doesn't matter, and while I agree that the game is a bit too easy and should be more complex/challenging we all know the truth of what LFG channel reveals.
It's even not about the easy content (or the LFG channel), that I think we all agree is extremely easy, it's about the simple fact that after optimizing, getting gear and investing effort in a class i want something to show for my effort even when ACT on a dummy. This is not about ego, epeening, or anything similar, just a return for my time invested. What the point of improving if a class will always be a second rate in it's own single function.
It's even not about the easy content (or the LFG channel), that I think we all agree is extremely easy, it's about the simple fact that after optimizing, getting gear and investing effort in a class i want something to show for my effort even when ACT on a dummy. This is not about ego, epeening, or anything similar, just a return for my time invested. What the point of improving if a class will always be a second rate in it's own single function.
I agree with you on that. I am a fairly competitive person in real life, but not the sort that has to win all the time (I would much more prefer to lose a close contest than I would to win an easy one). I want that uncertain outcome where my decisions and efforts in preparation increase my chances but with no guarantees of any certain victory. I don't like using gimmicks to add to this (such as hitting the space bar a bunch to jump and thus exploiting the flaws in certain targeting aspects of the game) but prefer resource over time limited/positioning/opportunistic methods.
Mucking about on the preview I seem to have stumbled on a bug I don't recall having been mentioned here. The stealth bar became stuck at 4/5 full (out of stealth) and neither time nor SS affects this. This persists through death.
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treecool91Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
BUG: EXECUTIONER - SHADOW BORN
the feat does not apply if there is a continuous damage source in between.
example:
stealth ----> lashing blade ---->35.5k damage done
path of the blade ----> stealth
> lashing blade
> 20k damage done
or
duelist flurry
> bleeds
> stealth
> lashing blade ----> 20k damage done.
basically you dont get the 100% more power if a continuous damage source is doing its job.
proof is that damage of bleeds does not increase.
nothing is broken TR is on CW level now, why is it when GWF and CW is OP no one complains? but when TR is on par with other damaging class it always becomes or worst made an issue which should be not. Crab mentality is destroying this game you hypocrites are annoying.
dude. i nearly instant killed lostmauth without going into the second phase. and killed the spider in under 15 seconds.
I feel we were in the same party
When you have a boss alone and do a BB its 4 million dmg.
Needs a Stack cap above 1 as exec would be weak with it only ticking once
nothing is broken TR is on CW level now, why is it when GWF and CW is OP no one complains? but when TR is on par with other damaging class it always becomes or worst made an issue which should be not. Crab mentality is destroying this game you hypocrites are annoying.
because you can be in stealth while doing that ammount of dmg. only gwfs can be defensive and still have some offensive capabilities like their unstoppable. Stealth is arguably the strongest defensive mechanism in the game. Allow trs to attack from stealth and still dish our huge amounts of damage has always caused unbalance issues. We are once again experiencing it in this mod.
like I hit hard because of a BB with red glyphs. adds 30 ish stacks then potb smoke u end up with 60 stacks end it with a LB and 4 mill.
Its stupid and im saving my respec token for when they fix it.
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
Stupid was when mage class was best in pvp in mod 4 and assasin class was the weakiest class in pvp, i have never ever seen it in other mmo. That is stupid that control class which should require time to cast spells and be squishy has faster powers, more defence with shield and freezing everyone to death.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
i never understood this. it's only purpose was to peel stealth but eventually every perma will be immune to stealth damage or does it pierce even 100% immunity?
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
Stupid was when mage class was best in pvp in mod 4 and assasin class was the weakiest class in pvp, i have never ever seen it in other mmo. That is stupid that control class which should require time to cast spells and be squishy has faster powers, more defence with shield and freezing everyone to death.
in other mmorpg, when trs use a skill they lose their stealth. and trs have never ever been the weakest in pvp. never
in other mmorpg, when trs use a skill they lose their stealth. and trs have never ever been the weakest in pvp. never
True. TRs (along with HRs) were the best backcappers in mod 4. This was the weakest mod for the TR and they are still essential to a group. That says something to how powerful the TRs are in the history of this game. DCs and GFs were less useful imo.
lol TR was actually one of the best in pvp in mod 4 next to a good HR probably. It was in PVE where the class fell behind.
I wouldn't say the TR was one of the best. HRs were gods, then followed by CWs and intimidation GWF. Along with that, you need a good backcapper and so that's where the TR comes in. It had an essential role, but it was not overpowered. If a premade didn't have a TR, they would need to waste 2 of their members to the enemy node just to survive.
So overall, there's not been *any* time in which TRs have been a weak class in PvP, and taking the history of the game as a whole, TRs have undeniably been the overall most effective PvP class in terms of their ability to win games.
I also do not remember any time in which the TRs were the worst PVP class in the game. I know a couple of different times when they were the best though
No mate, just no. Bad players had problems, true... But a skilled/intelligent TR caused lots of trouble to anybody.
Mod 4 worst class = DC.
A lot of trouble lol. Just lol! If a lot of trouble is that you can't do anything but survive against op hr in last mod then you are right. I don't care about people with lack of ambition. I do care about people who respect themselves, who want to actually be threat, to actually be the one respected not mocked by op hr who you won't kill no matter what. People who respect themselves won't allow being spitted at mocked and treated as trash as TR was in last module. Same geared TR and HR-TR could do nothing else but survive. Killing DC in last module was possible with executioner and dc artefact and glyphs before nerf. After that DC would overheal all that dmg no matter how much you would sweat there to kill him. That is why like i said already TR was weakiest class. There was no advantage for team, because TR would not kill same geared any class(i don't count other TR). All that enemy had to do is to send whatever class they have and was least productive on other points just to stalemate TR or simply crush him like worm-HR.
Class which is productive is the one giving you advantage. TR gave 0 advantage against intelligent enemies-they would simply send weakiest on TR point and deal with rest on other points. I don't count teams who would send few people on TR just to kill him because it's very bad leaving rest points, because they are not worth of note.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Why is it when other striker class is OP very few complains, but when TR is on par with their class gangs complain? In mod 4 people curse and mock TR because all it can do is hold a node, irritate other players and nothing more not to mention it isnt welcome in dungeon raids because what it can do other class can do it 3x better.
This capstone seems a bit underwhelming in PvE compared to the others (assuming the fixed SoD). Many targets are not affected by daze (virtually every boss) making this completely useless on them, but even considering those that are affected by it the result is not quite on par with the other paths. It needs a little more and I have a few ideas but maybe others will have better.
Include a debuff that can affect all (or most) targets such as a 25% reduction in target damage/slow/etc
or
Change it to a stun instead of a daze
or
Make it a daze that can affect most targets
or
Increase the amount of bonus damage done by the rogue to the affected target and give it a different icon than the standard daze (or a different color so we can differentiate it) and allow this damage even to those targets immune to daze.
or
An even better idea submitted by another Trickster Rogue
I have a lot of problems with the Scoundrel tree, and this is one of them. Honestly, the only worthwhile feat in there is the one that grants dazes on crits: the deflection and lifesteal in the early ranks are worse than their Heroic versions, the second-rank feats are worse than that, and the fourth and fifth-ranked feats only work on dazed targets or grant you +10% Deflection when you go into stealth, which is especially unhelpful for the Scoundrel because that tree doesn't have any stealth-generating abilities.
But since we're focused on Skullcracker:
The daze needs to work on CC-immune targets. This makes Skullcracker AND the rank-4 feat work on bosses. I don't care if the daze stops CC-immune targets from attacking, I just want them to count as dazed for the damage feats.
Skullcracker needs to affect all targets hit by the encounter. If I start a fight with Blitz in a mob of enemies, Skullcracker activates only on one of them, and it seems completely random which one it is. I want it to turn my non-daze powers into dazing ones, like it says it does, not just only work with single-target encounters; as a Scoundrel, dazing things is my job, so I'm running Dazing Strike, Blitz (for AoE dazes from behind/when it crits) and Smokebomb. That leaves nowhere for Skullcracker to activate, because my only single-target spell already dazes, and two dazes is a huge waste. Or, more often than not, three dazes, since if dazing strike crits or hits from behind, it activates the rank-3 feat for some reason.
Comments
Still I love most of the new changes.
It's even not about the easy content (or the LFG channel), that I think we all agree is extremely easy, it's about the simple fact that after optimizing, getting gear and investing effort in a class i want something to show for my effort even when ACT on a dummy. This is not about ego, epeening, or anything similar, just a return for my time invested. What the point of improving if a class will always be a second rate in it's own single function.
I agree with you on that. I am a fairly competitive person in real life, but not the sort that has to win all the time (I would much more prefer to lose a close contest than I would to win an easy one). I want that uncertain outcome where my decisions and efforts in preparation increase my chances but with no guarantees of any certain victory. I don't like using gimmicks to add to this (such as hitting the space bar a bunch to jump and thus exploiting the flaws in certain targeting aspects of the game) but prefer resource over time limited/positioning/opportunistic methods.
UP.............................................
Does it really matter if they fix TR?
What after that?
HR? Then what?
CW? GWF? GF?
Then again TR OP?
It's not like the cycle of rotating broken OP classes is hard to notice, is it?
Maybe it's even intentional
I feel we were in the same party
When you have a boss alone and do a BB its 4 million dmg.
Needs a Stack cap above 1 as exec would be weak with it only ticking once
Its stupid and im saving my respec token for when they fix it.
because you can be in stealth while doing that ammount of dmg. only gwfs can be defensive and still have some offensive capabilities like their unstoppable. Stealth is arguably the strongest defensive mechanism in the game. Allow trs to attack from stealth and still dish our huge amounts of damage has always caused unbalance issues. We are once again experiencing it in this mod.
Lol potb with single target dmg of 100 max, just funny.
Stupid was when mage class was best in pvp in mod 4 and assasin class was the weakiest class in pvp, i have never ever seen it in other mmo. That is stupid that control class which should require time to cast spells and be squishy has faster powers, more defence with shield and freezing everyone to death.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
i never understood this. it's only purpose was to peel stealth but eventually every perma will be immune to stealth damage or does it pierce even 100% immunity?
True. TRs (along with HRs) were the best backcappers in mod 4. This was the weakest mod for the TR and they are still essential to a group. That says something to how powerful the TRs are in the history of this game. DCs and GFs were less useful imo.
I wouldn't say the TR was one of the best. HRs were gods, then followed by CWs and intimidation GWF. Along with that, you need a good backcapper and so that's where the TR comes in. It had an essential role, but it was not overpowered. If a premade didn't have a TR, they would need to waste 2 of their members to the enemy node just to survive.
I also do not remember any time in which the TRs were the worst PVP class in the game. I know a couple of different times when they were the best though
Mod 4 TR worst class. If any premade ever took TR only 1 max and other class they would stack without problem.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
you were the worst TR on mod 4, and now the dumbest in mod 5
A lot of trouble lol. Just lol! If a lot of trouble is that you can't do anything but survive against op hr in last mod then you are right. I don't care about people with lack of ambition. I do care about people who respect themselves, who want to actually be threat, to actually be the one respected not mocked by op hr who you won't kill no matter what. People who respect themselves won't allow being spitted at mocked and treated as trash as TR was in last module. Same geared TR and HR-TR could do nothing else but survive. Killing DC in last module was possible with executioner and dc artefact and glyphs before nerf. After that DC would overheal all that dmg no matter how much you would sweat there to kill him. That is why like i said already TR was weakiest class. There was no advantage for team, because TR would not kill same geared any class(i don't count other TR). All that enemy had to do is to send whatever class they have and was least productive on other points just to stalemate TR or simply crush him like worm-HR.
Class which is productive is the one giving you advantage. TR gave 0 advantage against intelligent enemies-they would simply send weakiest on TR point and deal with rest on other points. I don't count teams who would send few people on TR just to kill him because it's very bad leaving rest points, because they are not worth of note.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
This capstone seems a bit underwhelming in PvE compared to the others (assuming the fixed SoD). Many targets are not affected by daze (virtually every boss) making this completely useless on them, but even considering those that are affected by it the result is not quite on par with the other paths. It needs a little more and I have a few ideas but maybe others will have better.
Include a debuff that can affect all (or most) targets such as a 25% reduction in target damage/slow/etc
or
Change it to a stun instead of a daze
or
Make it a daze that can affect most targets
or
Increase the amount of bonus damage done by the rogue to the affected target and give it a different icon than the standard daze (or a different color so we can differentiate it) and allow this damage even to those targets immune to daze.
or
An even better idea submitted by another Trickster Rogue
I have a lot of problems with the Scoundrel tree, and this is one of them. Honestly, the only worthwhile feat in there is the one that grants dazes on crits: the deflection and lifesteal in the early ranks are worse than their Heroic versions, the second-rank feats are worse than that, and the fourth and fifth-ranked feats only work on dazed targets or grant you +10% Deflection when you go into stealth, which is especially unhelpful for the Scoundrel because that tree doesn't have any stealth-generating abilities.
But since we're focused on Skullcracker:
The daze needs to work on CC-immune targets. This makes Skullcracker AND the rank-4 feat work on bosses. I don't care if the daze stops CC-immune targets from attacking, I just want them to count as dazed for the damage feats.
Skullcracker needs to affect all targets hit by the encounter. If I start a fight with Blitz in a mob of enemies, Skullcracker activates only on one of them, and it seems completely random which one it is. I want it to turn my non-daze powers into dazing ones, like it says it does, not just only work with single-target encounters; as a Scoundrel, dazing things is my job, so I'm running Dazing Strike, Blitz (for AoE dazes from behind/when it crits) and Smokebomb. That leaves nowhere for Skullcracker to activate, because my only single-target spell already dazes, and two dazes is a huge waste. Or, more often than not, three dazes, since if dazing strike crits or hits from behind, it activates the rank-3 feat for some reason.
rly man? are u ******? why u always qq about TR's? this class 100% OP now, be happy...
really man what? i told you it doesnt work wtf of reasoning is yours? #nevergofullr****d
Somehow, every mod will have 1-2 overpowered classes. It is now your turn.