Disheartening Strike, PoTB, DF Bleeds, Smoke Bomb and even Plaguefire ticks and maybe other enchantments all aplly Shadow of Demise. This is too much, needs to have stack cap or not be stackable. I managed to apply 40 - 50 stacks of Shadow of Demise with plaguefire.
Aye there are a lot of those odd stacking issues and it isn't limited to the TR shadow of demise but perhaps it is made more obvious that way. I know other classes always like to claim WAI, but at least we are honest when it seems to be excessive -- but possibly made more so with us since we are not used to anything excessive.
I'm not sure about other classes but this seems to be very different in its own way. This is PIERCING damage which can rise problems in PvP and in PvE, its not very hard to get stacks. Its about 10 - 30k damage hitting 20 or so times consecutively. It might not be much of a problem against regular mobs because they die too fast but against a boss, they will get destroyed. If this is WAI, then RIP balance.
Feedback: I was on preview and new Shadow of Demise is AWESOME. Executioner path have its dmg now. I like it stackable; it must be imho, but a stack limit maybe would be a good idea. 5 stacks limit? Dunno. 10 is too much?
Bosses are melting now under our dmg. All I can say is: I like it
shadow of demise: it stacks and can be resisted.
Your Shadow of Demise deals 1802 (5945) Physical Damage to Monocromatico 7.
shadow of demise: should proc on encounter use, it's easy to exploit the proc
now. Ideal would be let it stack but only with encounters
shocking execution: damage can be resisted
Critical Hit! Your Shocking Execution deals 12445 (30032) Physical Damage to Mmm Mmm Yeah Yeah.
shocking execution can be dodged but i m ok with that
FIX PATH OF THE BLADE to proc enchantments, the damage got a 166% nerf on single target!
shadow strike needs something more or less cooldown
Lashing blade need to be a standart 12 sec encounter
under 20% shocking should refill AP, this does not happen if the first shocking is dodged
dis. strike really needs a tone down
Too much reliance on proc effects to play classes.
I warned them before things are easy to break like that.
Such things should be related to the actual skill use than procs. (its why I proposed Wicked Reminder deals at least half its damage as additional piercing damage. Having a consistant way of dealing peircing damage without procs and whatnot.) Things like that.
I rolled both MI and WK executioner build and compare it to my MI and WK sabouter.
I must say executioner is now way to go in pve, at least in solo content.
I tried to q to some dungeons but it seems there are noone intrested (lfg chanell in enclave is dead as well ;/ )
Very nice damage, PotB with stealth is amazing, same with Bloodbath or Whirlwind,
good solid dps with some extra effects.
We need to use SS to get most of executioner build, but its OK,
much better damage is worth loosing one encounter
Smoke bomb with its dazing effect is very usefull, because it helps with timing/cooldowns.
HE are much easier to solo now, I feel much less squishy and finally its fun to play.
For PVP (tried only few solo fights and I must say Im not very good).
I think all DoTs and piercing dmg should be reduced to half damage in pvp.
Right now its too strong and people will complain, this cousing nerf to pve which is in good state now.
On preview you can use PotB, go stealth, SS and people just die.
If you spec as WK and use DS (very high damage, almost not possible to avoid),
Bait and Switch to stay in stealth even longer.
Its too good to go live as it is, please reduce DoT damage and Piercing damage in PVP only!
Simple add note 'the effect is half effective in pvp' and implement mechanic
Executioner is A BIT (ONLY A BIT) op in PvE too right now.
As ppl mentioned, shadow of demise stacks too much, there should be limit or cooldown.
For PvP there will be problem about DoT and shadow of demise stacking. Either cut the dmg down ONLY FOR PVP, or make that shadow of demise stack is limited to 1 in PvP.
Bait and switch need to be better somehow, bigger AoE or much more health or something else. I tried both saboteur and executioner and using slot for BaS seems wasted. (Might change if stacks od Shadow of demise will be changed, then Exec could use more stealth).
And with that i`m happy in PvE, if exec will get a little, I repeat ONLY A LITTLE, nerf`d.
For Stats, i think that Dex should lower cooldowns by 1% instead of another 0,5% deflect. That would solve the problem with not worthy Dex AND would help ppl asking for lower cooldowns in the same time.
The problem rises in PvP. TR can hit you once and run + hide after that till you die.
Either nerf Dots in PvP or somehow make them "riskier" there.
For example, let person who got hit by TR (Dot or not) see where it "came from" for brief period. And i mean by that to only show WHERE TR is, but not make him targetable if TR`s in stealth.
DoTs like DS and piercing from sabouter tree is imho OP in pvp, should be reduced in pvp only.
SoD with PotB is OP in pvp, should be reduced in pvp only.
TR is good in pve right now, hardly OP.
In PVE TR sets are meh, maybe Captain might be good,
but its still worse than AoW(GWF), HV(CW), AD(SW) or anything else other DPS oriented classes use now.
people will use BI or new Drow anyway, because of extra slots and better stats.
TR is good in pve right now, but is still worse than my SW (with less GS), because of Tyranical Threat, warlocks baragain, dreatheft combo.
TR is worse than any CW, because it lacks CC, dont have OP set (HV), and dies quickly in aoe red zones, still deals less dmg.
As for GWF and HR i think they might be at same level, but have different task/roles,
as dps but better/wors in different scenarios (cc immune mobs, lots of red zones hurts TR a lot,
GWF and HR can deal with it easier)
TR is very good in PVE solo content in which I think he is much better than above classes (on pair with cw and hr i think).
Ok putting everything aside for this reply. Epic enchantments such as plaguefire and bilethorn should NOT apply shadow of demise stacks. I compared my DPS on ACT, with and without Plaguefire. With Plaguefire, my damage can be doubled and sometimes tripled.
Bug: The stealth meter with Lurkers Assault active is not accurate, it just depletes itself like it normally does and then it becomes empty even though I am still stealthed. Might be due to Exe capstone feat, didn't test with other trees yet.
Also Smoke bomb area seems to be broken, I put a smoke bomb dead center at 3 training dummies and none of them got dazed or damaged but when I went to the 3 in a row then only 2 got dazed and damaged.
25 mln dmg in CN is OP? By what class and what amount of gs?
Its high number sure, but whats your gear, gs, etc?
I can get my SW (14k+) up to 20mln in CN, so i dont see a problem here.
In T2 i can hit 18mln in FH, 20mln+ in SP, over 15mln in ToS.
You can do the same with any decent 15k CW.
You dont see these numbers all the time, but often, with good smooth run it is as I say.
It might be that 20k+ gs TR is OP even in PVE, but i dont have one, mine is ~14k like most of my characters.
Anyway, 20k+ character thats going into 9k dungeon supposed to be OP...
Now I can see my TR is on same lvl in pve as my SW and better than my 17k GWF.
I like this change... might be too much, but I like it.
Damage is one thing, you need to remember that to get most of it you need right timing,
one or two wrong step and youre dead (my 50% deflection chance doesnt help much).
AoEs burn your stealth in seconds reducing your dps a lot.
I cannot say that about CW, SW or GWF, which dps is much more reliable.
shadow of demise: it stacks and can be resisted.
Your Shadow of Demise deals 1802 (5945) Physical Damage to Monocromatico 7.
shadow of demise: should proc on encounter use, it's easy to exploit the proc
now. Ideal would be let it stack but only with encounters
shocking execution: damage can be resisted
Critical Hit! Your Shocking Execution deals 12445 (30032) Physical Damage to Mmm Mmm Yeah Yeah.
shocking execution can be dodged but i m ok with that
FIX PATH OF THE BLADE to proc enchantments, the damage got a 166% nerf on single target!
shadow strike needs something more or less cooldown
Lashing blade need to be a standart 12 sec encounter
under 20% shocking should refill AP, this does not happen if the first shocking is dodged
dis. strike really needs a tone down
I hit same person Mmm Mmm Yeah Yeah with shocking execution for 47 k dmg and he got hit for 5 k. I must fear TR were once more made a fools and shocking rework is just farse cause it won't be usefull as before. It doesn't ignore defence, it doesn't ignore dodge and any immune and yet it has laughable dmg of 7-9 k on 4 k power. If it has 0 special effect why it does not have dmg of ice knife which has dmg 16-18 k dmg???
Ahh almost forgot to mention that shocking execution was with first strike, p vorpal, from stealth, 25% last moments, shadowborn and my armor penetration at that moment had 49%
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
"The worst that could happen to us is that we have to die, and since that is already our unalterable fate, we are free; those who have lost everything no longer have anything to fear." - Don Juan
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mojoratMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited November 2014
I ran some tests today, and i ahve to say the new Executioner is.. wow.. i really like the stealth regen thing.. actually wish Scoundrel got that too but admitedly they dont need it as much. However, The Damage from executioner fun as it was.. theres ssomething Jacking it to obscene levels.
So ive been periodically using the "assembly" in the well of dragons as my testing HE. How long do i last, how long does it take to kill the lvl 62 mobs and so on. Ive never been able to beat it as Sab or Scoundrel, in fact it took painfully long to kill th lvl 62 mobs as a scoundrel and several times i bounced into other groups. When i ran today as executioner, i basically could have finished had i been there when the He started. Stuff died so fast, and while i was still popping potions it was no where near the level of the oher two paths, bascally, te damagew was so high i could stand still at times.
I assume its the capstone stacking people metjoned, really the capstone doesnt need to trigger off anything but Encounters. I also like the new damage on Shocking execution.
But, going live with executioners current damage would not be a good thing, over all i think Sab and Scoundrel are solid, and the stealth regen change for executioner made them playable.
Suggestion: Make First Strike buff visible when active, in a similar way of Fox Shift's buff
(actually, from a UI point of view, those buffs are even difficult to see because they are really small... something bigger or a little text list would help... the same thing applies with debuffs applied on monsters)
Feedback MI Exe, PvE:
Bait and switch doesn't draw aggro. Tested with Ice Trolls at Dwarven Valley; from stealth i drop the bait, step back a bit, exit stealth... and as soon as I attack one mob, the others follow and target me. In order to be of any use, even to a party, the bait should really draw aggro (within a nice radius, for example the same size of smoke bomb) and not just be targeted when the TR is invisible.
I don't think that a pull like GWF's "Come and get it" woud help: while soloing, the tr would then have to deal with a bunch of mobs concentrated in one spot, situation which is unfavorable for him; the TR would be often able to target only one of them, while receiving damage from the whole lot.
Smoke Bomb seems awesome with its DoT, thanks! I did not pay attention if every time every mob was dazed or not... there might be a bug like someone else reported.
It's difficult to say if Exe's overall performance is fine because Shadow of Demise is bugged ( stacking indefinitely )
1)I think that removing the requirement for encounters-only was NEEDED.
2)Likewise, the application of shadow of demise on different targets is a must.
3)The bonuses on stealth feel like a great help to Exe, thank you devs!
I can survive better now but I can't evaluate how much this is due to the broken damage (and getting far more hp through lifesteal than I should have in normal conditions)
and how much is due to the 0.5 % more deflect chance bonus from dex (which is a very welcome addition btw)
and the stealth bonuses of shadow of demise.
the only thing that remains to be seen is how exe would perform with a maximum of 1 shadow of demise stack per mob
I have the impression that survivability will still be a tiny bit lacking (like life steal not being enough rewarding)
maybe, choosing defensive T5 boons for my build could help me survive better but then I'd have to drop some nice damage dealing boons...
Last thing, Shocking Execution is certainly better, and I can only thank you for the changes, but I don't know if it can be called a finishing move yet (remember, from a PvE perspective)
I didn't have the chance to test its AP refill mechanic
I'd like to link back to my previous feedback (quoted here for reference) to suggest something for SE
My suggestion would be to give TR a mechanic that could be REALLY useful to the team...
some sort of bleeding debuff that stacks (again, you could make it work for PvE only if it could be problematic for PvP)
*Mechanic* : with every hit, TR puts on the enemy one stack of "Bleeding Wound"
-at wills put 1 stack of "Bleeding Wound" with every hit
-some encounters put 5 stacks of "Bleeding Wound" (like Lashing Blade, Wicked Reminder)
while others put 1 stack of "Bleeding Wound" with every hit (DoT encounters like PotB and SmokeBomb)
"Bleeding Wound": target receive 0.5% more incoming damage from all sources and deals 0.25% less damage ( so that every ally could benefit from the effect.... maybe add slow/reduced incoming healing / other useful debuffs )
debuff lasts for 8 seconds
and is NOT refreshed with every reapplication (so that the faster you hit the more stacks are put... but it's not so easy to have a maximum debuff on at all times)
can reach a maximum of 40 stacks
multiple rogues in a team could sinergize and make the debuff stack to a total of 80 units
Shocking Execution could sinergize with the mechanic I suggested and consume all the stacks of "Bleeding Wound" to deal more damage.
This could reward a TR that sticks with a boss... and could also be used to empower other dailies! ( like extending the debuff duration of courage breaker, the power buff of WoB, the number of strikes of BB )
I think that the shadow of Demise should not be triggered
by DoTs (so no ultra stacking Dishearting strike and other),
PoTB (because 3xSoD every sec or half is too much)
and weapon enchantments (perfect vorpal should be more effective than some lesser DoT or multi dmg one)
then:
1. GC can stack "a lot" of SoD easily, but this attack is slow so no problem here.
2. DS would not trigger SoD or only one.
3. Other at-wills would stack SoD faster, but stealth depletion would prevent heavy stacking. (maybe lurker should keep you stealthed for 1 whole DF or something, that would be awesome daily for executioner if whole flurry would manage to stack SoD).
4. And you know how it works with encounters.
In this moment my dps in cn is the same of a cw whit my gs (18k, full R9, same companions) realy thing tr is op???mmm
bugs need fixed but... realy need a nerf shadow dismise???
My rotation is smoke, blizt and dazzing stryke.
Comments
if you use lurkers, then potb > stealth > smoke > lashing it will do HUUUUUGE amounts of damage!
while awesome for pve i really dont think this is appropriate as it will break pvp
This change doesn't appear to be showing. At DEX of 21, DEX is contributing 5.5% to Deflection chance (0.5% per point above 10)
Bosses are melting now under our dmg. All I can say is: I like it
Ty devs.
The added Deflection chance is at the bottom of the list: there are two listings for .5% deflection chance with DEX.
...
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Edit: Found. Seems like an unusual and non-intuative way of displaying the bonus!
Your Shadow of Demise deals 1802 (5945) Physical Damage to Monocromatico 7.
shadow of demise: should proc on encounter use, it's easy to exploit the proc
now. Ideal would be let it stack but only with encounters
shocking execution: damage can be resisted
Critical Hit! Your Shocking Execution deals 12445 (30032) Physical Damage to Mmm Mmm Yeah Yeah.
shocking execution can be dodged but i m ok with that
FIX PATH OF THE BLADE to proc enchantments, the damage got a 166% nerf on single target!
shadow strike needs something more or less cooldown
Lashing blade need to be a standart 12 sec encounter
under 20% shocking should refill AP, this does not happen if the first shocking is dodged
dis. strike really needs a tone down
I warned them before things are easy to break like that.
Such things should be related to the actual skill use than procs. (its why I proposed Wicked Reminder deals at least half its damage as additional piercing damage. Having a consistant way of dealing peircing damage without procs and whatnot.) Things like that.
I must say executioner is now way to go in pve, at least in solo content.
I tried to q to some dungeons but it seems there are noone intrested (lfg chanell in enclave is dead as well ;/ )
Very nice damage, PotB with stealth is amazing, same with Bloodbath or Whirlwind,
good solid dps with some extra effects.
We need to use SS to get most of executioner build, but its OK,
much better damage is worth loosing one encounter
Smoke bomb with its dazing effect is very usefull, because it helps with timing/cooldowns.
HE are much easier to solo now, I feel much less squishy and finally its fun to play.
For PVP (tried only few solo fights and I must say Im not very good).
I think all DoTs and piercing dmg should be reduced to half damage in pvp.
Right now its too strong and people will complain, this cousing nerf to pve which is in good state now.
On preview you can use PotB, go stealth, SS and people just die.
If you spec as WK and use DS (very high damage, almost not possible to avoid),
Bait and Switch to stay in stealth even longer.
Its too good to go live as it is,
please reduce DoT damage and Piercing damage in PVP only!
Simple add note 'the effect is half effective in pvp' and implement mechanic
1) shadow demise is not piercing right now.
2) is stacking infinitely without internal cooldown
As ppl mentioned, shadow of demise stacks too much, there should be limit or cooldown.
For PvP there will be problem about DoT and shadow of demise stacking. Either cut the dmg down ONLY FOR PVP, or make that shadow of demise stack is limited to 1 in PvP.
Bait and switch need to be better somehow, bigger AoE or much more health or something else. I tried both saboteur and executioner and using slot for BaS seems wasted. (Might change if stacks od Shadow of demise will be changed, then Exec could use more stealth).
And with that i`m happy in PvE, if exec will get a little, I repeat ONLY A LITTLE, nerf`d.
For Stats, i think that Dex should lower cooldowns by 1% instead of another 0,5% deflect. That would solve the problem with not worthy Dex AND would help ppl asking for lower cooldowns in the same time.
The problem rises in PvP. TR can hit you once and run + hide after that till you die.
Either nerf Dots in PvP or somehow make them "riskier" there.
For example, let person who got hit by TR (Dot or not) see where it "came from" for brief period. And i mean by that to only show WHERE TR is, but not make him targetable if TR`s in stealth.
I may not express my self clearly.
DoTs like DS and piercing from sabouter tree is imho OP in pvp, should be reduced in pvp only.
SoD with PotB is OP in pvp, should be reduced in pvp only.
TR is good in pve right now, hardly OP.
In PVE TR sets are meh, maybe Captain might be good,
but its still worse than AoW(GWF), HV(CW), AD(SW) or anything else other DPS oriented classes use now.
people will use BI or new Drow anyway, because of extra slots and better stats.
TR is good in pve right now, but is still worse than my SW (with less GS), because of Tyranical Threat, warlocks baragain, dreatheft combo.
TR is worse than any CW, because it lacks CC, dont have OP set (HV), and dies quickly in aoe red zones, still deals less dmg.
As for GWF and HR i think they might be at same level, but have different task/roles,
as dps but better/wors in different scenarios (cc immune mobs, lots of red zones hurts TR a lot,
GWF and HR can deal with it easier)
TR is very good in PVE solo content in which I think he is much better than above classes (on pair with cw and hr i think).
Also Smoke bomb area seems to be broken, I put a smoke bomb dead center at 3 training dummies and none of them got dazed or damaged but when I went to the 3 in a row then only 2 got dazed and damaged.
Its high number sure, but whats your gear, gs, etc?
I can get my SW (14k+) up to 20mln in CN, so i dont see a problem here.
In T2 i can hit 18mln in FH, 20mln+ in SP, over 15mln in ToS.
You can do the same with any decent 15k CW.
You dont see these numbers all the time, but often, with good smooth run it is as I say.
It might be that 20k+ gs TR is OP even in PVE, but i dont have one, mine is ~14k like most of my characters.
Anyway, 20k+ character thats going into 9k dungeon supposed to be OP...
Now I can see my TR is on same lvl in pve as my SW and better than my 17k GWF.
I like this change... might be too much, but I like it.
Damage is one thing, you need to remember that to get most of it you need right timing,
one or two wrong step and youre dead (my 50% deflection chance doesnt help much).
AoEs burn your stealth in seconds reducing your dps a lot.
I cannot say that about CW, SW or GWF, which dps is much more reliable.
Only problem is the Neverwinter "bosses" die in seconds at this type of damage.
This is bad. Make bosses MUCH harder.
I hit same person Mmm Mmm Yeah Yeah with shocking execution for 47 k dmg and he got hit for 5 k. I must fear TR were once more made a fools and shocking rework is just farse cause it won't be usefull as before. It doesn't ignore defence, it doesn't ignore dodge and any immune and yet it has laughable dmg of 7-9 k on 4 k power. If it has 0 special effect why it does not have dmg of ice knife which has dmg 16-18 k dmg???
Ahh almost forgot to mention that shocking execution was with first strike, p vorpal, from stealth, 25% last moments, shadowborn and my armor penetration at that moment had 49%
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
For the CN example, i already do 21 Million in CN on the Live-Server with my TR.
pls fix Shadow of Demise. Im pretty sure its actual state isnt WAI.
> Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjNs5POwW48
Greetings RAPTOR
"The worst that could happen to us is that we have to die, and since that is already our unalterable fate, we are free; those who have lost everything no longer have anything to fear." - Don Juan
So ive been periodically using the "assembly" in the well of dragons as my testing HE. How long do i last, how long does it take to kill the lvl 62 mobs and so on. Ive never been able to beat it as Sab or Scoundrel, in fact it took painfully long to kill th lvl 62 mobs as a scoundrel and several times i bounced into other groups. When i ran today as executioner, i basically could have finished had i been there when the He started. Stuff died so fast, and while i was still popping potions it was no where near the level of the oher two paths, bascally, te damagew was so high i could stand still at times.
I assume its the capstone stacking people metjoned, really the capstone doesnt need to trigger off anything but Encounters. I also like the new damage on Shocking execution.
But, going live with executioners current damage would not be a good thing, over all i think Sab and Scoundrel are solid, and the stealth regen change for executioner made them playable.
Shocking can be dodged
(actually, from a UI point of view, those buffs are even difficult to see because they are really small... something bigger or a little text list would help... the same thing applies with debuffs applied on monsters)
Feedback MI Exe, PvE:
Bait and switch doesn't draw aggro. Tested with Ice Trolls at Dwarven Valley; from stealth i drop the bait, step back a bit, exit stealth... and as soon as I attack one mob, the others follow and target me.
In order to be of any use, even to a party, the bait should really draw aggro (within a nice radius, for example the same size of smoke bomb) and not just be targeted when the TR is invisible.
I don't think that a pull like GWF's "Come and get it" woud help: while soloing, the tr would then have to deal with a bunch of mobs concentrated in one spot, situation which is unfavorable for him; the TR would be often able to target only one of them, while receiving damage from the whole lot.
Smoke Bomb seems awesome with its DoT, thanks!
I did not pay attention if every time every mob was dazed or not... there might be a bug like someone else reported.
It's difficult to say if Exe's overall performance is fine because Shadow of Demise is bugged ( stacking indefinitely )
1)I think that removing the requirement for encounters-only was NEEDED.
2)Likewise, the application of shadow of demise on different targets is a must.
3)The bonuses on stealth feel like a great help to Exe, thank you devs!
I can survive better now but I can't evaluate how much this is due to the broken damage (and getting far more hp through lifesteal than I should have in normal conditions)
and how much is due to the 0.5 % more deflect chance bonus from dex (which is a very welcome addition btw)
and the stealth bonuses of shadow of demise.
the only thing that remains to be seen is how exe would perform with a maximum of 1 shadow of demise stack per mob
I have the impression that survivability will still be a tiny bit lacking (like life steal not being enough rewarding)
maybe, choosing defensive T5 boons for my build could help me survive better but then I'd have to drop some nice damage dealing boons...
Last thing, Shocking Execution is certainly better, and I can only thank you for the changes, but I don't know if it can be called a finishing move yet (remember, from a PvE perspective)
I didn't have the chance to test its AP refill mechanic
I'd like to link back to my previous feedback (quoted here for reference) to suggest something for SE
Shocking Execution could sinergize with the mechanic I suggested and consume all the stacks of "Bleeding Wound" to deal more damage.
This could reward a TR that sticks with a boss... and could also be used to empower other dailies! ( like extending the debuff duration of courage breaker, the power buff of WoB, the number of strikes of BB )
by DoTs (so no ultra stacking Dishearting strike and other),
PoTB (because 3xSoD every sec or half is too much)
and weapon enchantments (perfect vorpal should be more effective than some lesser DoT or multi dmg one)
then:
1. GC can stack "a lot" of SoD easily, but this attack is slow so no problem here.
2. DS would not trigger SoD or only one.
3. Other at-wills would stack SoD faster, but stealth depletion would prevent heavy stacking. (maybe lurker should keep you stealthed for 1 whole DF or something, that would be awesome daily for executioner if whole flurry would manage to stack SoD).
4. And you know how it works with encounters.
bugs need fixed but... realy need a nerf shadow dismise???
My rotation is smoke, blizt and dazzing stryke.