It is viable, but with artifact gear being the new BIS slots, RP is the only thing NEEDED to progress and those gears will be obsolete. Now that it'll bind to each account, I can't think of ANY way to quickly refine your stuff unless you count charging 50k zen to your credit card and buying blood rubies (which nobody in their right mind would do).
I totally agree. It's also hard to make money on pickup dungeons when YOU ARE BOOTED at the end before Boss drop pickups. So for me, that means no more pickup dungeons.
feel free to try the legit channel. Sorry this happened to you.
In general, to everyone outraged I'd like to say this:
Really? you didn't see this coming? It's "free-to-play", this is how it works, with no monthly fee to help pay for development costs and profits, they have to continually incentivize you to spend money, the game is designed like this, you are surprised when they change the rules to get you to spend more money?
This is why I generally abhor the free-to-play model. I'd rather pay a monthly subscription fee and actually get what I pay for, rather than being strung along with that carrot dangling for ever out of my reach.
I do want to say that, for me, Neverwinter did the free-to-play model well when it originally came out. As a free-to-pay player, you could achieve everything in game as long as you had patience and a reasonable amount of time. I had hope. But, as time marched on they needed to continually fuel that development cost and profit margin, thus that carrot has gotten further and further from my reach.
That's what I loved about the initial f2p model, it let me try out a game before I decide to spend my hard earned cash. The problem is I haven't seen anything in this game that I would pay for. The content is, for lack of a better word, shallow. I love Respen's Game, great idea, but aside from that it's been rehashed/reused, small instanced content, time, after time, after time. So I have not problems being just f2p.
And I will leave you with the following, it was posted on the Neverwinter reddit and I think it sums the f2p model up perfectly:
I have run ELOL 15 times a day, every day, for almost a month now. I have gotten four belts, not the ones i wanted name you. That means i have looked at 700 chests. Hence the drop rate for a desired artifact belt is terrible. Farming it becomes impractical, unless you have tons of time.
You are very lucky guy I made dungon neer 900times. Now i got: 0 belts, 0 books, few dragons gem - 7 if i good remmember.
This is 1800 chest. And efect is nothink.
Reward for me is arti from finalboss - yes i was lucky guy and win a roll.
This system and this dungon is insane.
I like him a lot, not long, not quick. One word - perfect to me player who dont have a lot time to play. Yes this 900dungons spent me a lot of time, but i dont make nothink more only this dungon all time. Still dont have boons from tyrany - sry i odnt have time to make 400quest to this.
This game goind in bad direction, very bad.
I made arti weapon - 7 try to get this one i want. I made a legendary - very hard to me. I sold my enchant weapon to have ad for some peridots, ressonance ... and for what? For few more point in stats better than old weapon. This is insane one again.
Next legendary gear/weapon/arti is not posible to me.
I have belt arti too - i bought him for ad omg. And dont even try upgrade him to legendary, stop at purple level
One ore time: this game not going in good direction.
@Chem: all You said and write here is total tru. Big grats for this.
The point of this thread is a solution, what do you guys propose? I dont agree with reverting it because it's way too easy to get a legendary artifact.
Maybe Cryptic will bring something else soon, a better way to refine stuff or a better drop rate of BOP RP items lol
To Geeq5 post: My answer is the AH.
Why not make the Lesser Resonance Stones and the Minor Resonance stones BoA and leave normal enchantments alone? I mean you cant put the reg enchants into the artefact gear anyway. I know it makes it harder for people to upgrade their artefact gear but isn't that what you want? I honestly think its a bad idea but I also ,on the other hand, understand why they would do this.
EDIT due to I sat here and thought about my last response after talking to the wife.
Also at the same time, I look at it this way. You farm your butt off and get your artefact weapon/gear up to Legendary, Then what? You continue to get the stones as drops. What do you do with them? You cant sell them anymore to make a small profit from something you got while doing dallies or such. So you would be forced to just discard these items or sell them to a vendor for minimal gold? I still do understand the reasoning behind the thought. But I no longer agree with it. I have farmed my butt off and gotten my gear to Legendary due to not having a real AD income except from RIX Dailies and salvaging any Epic gear I may be lucky to get. So I save up my dropped Enchants and Refine Stones to full stacks and sell them for the AD. This will stop that from being possible. Bad choice on Cryptic and Neverwinter's part.
I think overall the game is wonderful and fun, but I do see this being a step down for the game and will in turn make a lot of people walk away. In the long run that will hurt the bottom line income from the game. I agree with the original post in that no one in their right mind will spend that kind of real world money to upgrade their gear. At the same time no one in their right mind will enjoy it taking MONTHS on top of Months to upgrade their gear. Just my thoughts on this whole issue.
I also agree with so many of your points. I honestly don't have a solution and usually don't like to complain unless I can suggest something, but having it so hard to get refining points really does add to the other negative economic issues for sure.
I've opened three chests with the adamantine gauntlet. I've gotten 2x pridots once and twice I got 2x rank 4 (yes, 4!!!) gems. So at rank 68 on my artifact i need 34,000+ refining points. Out of 3 chests I got 2080 refining points, so based on that i just need 17 days of HAMSTER rewards for a rank-up. I know I can get gems from other places, but I paid 50000 diamonds and what all in thayan relics from lockboxes to get to the point that I could do it. Dread ring rewards from the Adamantine Glove should not be less than blue, except for the artifact, and that's my opinion based on their natural timeframe to accomplish it.
That is more than a full-day of refining on any of my level 60 characters. So if I buy them I'm standing still and not really getting anywhere. Granted you need one or two for each level upgrade you do at rank 5 and 6, and it costs roughly 42500 diamonds for 10 preservation wards. So now you have 25000+42500 so you don't lose materials if you fail the upgrade. Again, the price changes to 100000k once you are ready to start on your purple ranks of upgrades, and you need to do this at least 14 times for each rank up.
So let's say you buy 10 packs of preservation wards for a total of 425K and do all of your rank 5 and 6 upgrades, which for 28 marks you will pay 700K. That comes to 46.875 days of max 24000 diamond refining. That is just the blues.
Now add to that 300k, 500k, and 750k to upgrade a pet, or 700k-1.2mil to upgrade a mount. Does it feel daunting yet?
The hell no. It will only kill the real causal players but not the bots. Bots can still sell accounts and have max characters all on it instead of spreading them across several accounts but real players certainly don't have the time and not likely to have many characters on one account.
Real players in this game are not self sufficient and will not way be. Even the most hardcore real players can't farm everything they need without botting.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited November 2014
I think I spent around 100$ on this game. Not the bigger spender, I know, but I did support the game. The reason I supported the game is because it was a lot of fun, and it used to feel fair. The game is not as fun anymore and it sure as hell doesn't feel as fair anymore. We get mediocre content tied to stupidly repetitive dailies and unbearable RNG grinding module, after module. You could say I'm not happy with the direction in which the game is going. However...
I'm sure not too many people agree with me, but I hate artifact gear. I hate how it was implemented, the amount of grinding/money/AD it takes, I hate it good. I wasn't gonna pay any AD or money to upgrade it. My Ancient/Black Ice Daggers are just fine till I'll get the Artifact Daggers to Epic ... or maybe to Legendary in the year 2020 :rolleyes: As for the other Artifact gear, I'm doing just fine with what I have in PVE, and don't care too much for PVP, so it's not a must for me. What am I gonna do with a Legendary that I can't do with an Epic? Make the mobs even deader?
One more thing I wanna say - Cryptic must bring some real content to both the game and the Zen Market if they want more money from me. Artifact gear feels like a gimmick to me, and if this whole thing is about getting money, well then they're not getting it from me.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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crewellMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited November 2014
What amazes me is that there is an obvious solution to stopping the botters with farming RP items. You make them either more common or lower the demand for them by average players. Making them more common keep people from buying them which hurts the AD sellers pockets. You can also lower demand with the excellent idea of having artifact equipment level with use instead of refining them. Finally you could actually just lower the RP required to level artifacts which lowers the demand.
The point isn't what is "needed" for PVE. It never was, and never really will be with the content they are releasing. You don't need to full artifacts to complete anything. But there is NOTHING else to do. Gearing up is the only content thing left to do, and as with most MMOs, players ALWAYS want the best possible gear. They aren't going to just stop gearing up...because 1 - MMOs are about gearing up and 2 - There is nothing else to do unless you PVP.
There are many "fun" options they could have applied to the artifact leveling that would have avoided the botting issue entirely. It boggles the mind they picked the current route that essentially catered to bots.
- level through overflow xp.
- level through only epics (at a much higher rate than currently)
- a unique dungeon drop specifically for leveling the artifacts
I basically play this game casually, and essentially try and level my stuff cheaply. But I can totally understand why people want to level up this gear. They made the concept simple, and essentially totally in the players control (once you get the item)....but the part that players can control is just boring...
It is clear to me that the devs here aren't actually playing the game. They are running an experiment in how absurdly grindish they can make this game and still have players do it (maybe as research for another game). OR, they are trying to make the old players, with their billions of AD they earned either by exploiting or by running dungeons repeatedly and selling loot that's now worthless (IE AD options that arent valid anymore) to quit so that all thats left is the newbies.
Anyways, everything seemingly about artifacts is poorly thought out. They need a complete overhaul. This change is simply going to increase the gear gaps (the people who have exploited or are rich already have full stockpiles of the items needed and wont have any impact) and make it harder for new people to catch up.
I like playing with chem. He is a great player. I am proud to have gone on several dungeon runs with him, including one of his many CN runs he did "back in the day". I don't doubt that he is the top MoF CW on the server; and if he isn't the top, then he is very close to the top. I have a lot of respect for chem.
But I have to disagree with chem on this issue.
I'm a casual player, I will play maybe 20 hours a week, most of that on the weekends. So merely a "part-time job", as opposed to the full-time avocation that many people make this game. So I am one of the players that this change is supposed to hurt the most. But I don't see it that way. Mostly because this change will most benefit honest farmers by rewarding the effort that they put into their farming. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but RP prices are TOO CHEAP. People talk endlessly about how new players don't have many ways left to make AD in order to improve their character. Well, here is a way. People who actually farm Sharandar for Fey Blessings, or actually open skill nodes to get unbound peridots and unbound enchants, and actually do IWD heroic encounters to get unbound Black Ice enchants, and do Dragon HE's to get unbound Draconic enchants, now have an opportunity to sell them to make some tangible AD without being undercut by bot scripting programs.
Will casual players ever get 5xLegendary (soon to be 7xLegendary) items? The answer is: Yes. It is just not going to be rapid.
First, the established method of ranking up artifacts by feeding it other artifacts at Rank 59 remains unchanged. So that is likely to remain the fastest method to rank up artifacts.
For artifact gear, people will just have to farm the RP themselves. If I spend an hour in an RP farming foundry, I can generally get enough RP to refine my artifact weapon up 1 rank. And that is just with 3xLesser Dragon Hoard enchants.
Is it fun? No.
Is it grindy? Yes.
HOWEVER, is it possible to make measurable progress on ranking up artifact gear using this method? YES.
Now I would advocate that should this change go live, that the devs change the loot drops in dungeon to more strongly favor Artifact RP. For instance, perhaps change the DD chest loot tables so that instead of getting a weapon/armor shard, we get EITHER a shard OR an item of artifact gear RP of at least rare quality (normal resonance stone, flawless sapphire, or, rarely, greater resonance stone or black opal). Another change might be that for skill node checks, that players are guaranteed to get an artifact gear RP item in addition to an enchant, as opposed to now when peridots/white pearls only occasionally drop from skill nodes. I think that would help with players getting RP, rewarding players who actually play the game while discouraging bots.
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nalikkMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
If revenue is such an issue why does Cryptic / PWE not take the capitalist approach and meet/beat the gold sellers price? They've obviously proven the market and Cryptic / PWE could definitely beat them on pricing, since bots must pay for electricity and what not and Cryptic / PWE only has to spawn the item.
For artifact gear, people will just have to farm the RP themselves. If I spend an hour in an RP farming foundry, I can generally get enough RP to refine my artifact weapon up 1 rank. And that is just with 3xLesser Dragon Hoard enchants.
You need more RP as you level up your artifact weapons/belts. Sure you can get enough RP for early levels, but once you get it to epic which has cost you 571k RP so far, you will need another 4mil+ to get it to legendary. That is the main issue here, the people who wants to have the legendary gears won't be able to do it without purchasing RP from bots.
People are upset because they have taken the ONLY option available while not providing an alternative that is viable.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
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lordfuzunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
I
For artifact gear, people will just have to farm the RP themselves. If I spend an hour in an RP farming foundry, I can generally get enough RP to refine my artifact weapon up 1 rank. And that is just with 3xLesser Dragon Hoard enchants.
Is it fun? No.
Is it grindy? Yes.
I think you are missing one very important point. NW is a game. Something that people supposedly do for fun.
One of the reasons for the current state of things and the current outrage (perhaps too strong a word) is that the Mod 5 additions to the game have gone over a line. With RP Items BoA, it become will become grindy and no fun. The reason that Botter flourished was demand. And the demand was caused by the huge requirements for Artifact leveling. With that going to be dried up, the is going to cross a line.
I cant help but feel like there are certain aspects that are being overlooked.
1) developers don't work for free.
2) you shouldn't be able to conquer the game instantly without paying for it.
In PvE it really doesn't matter what gear score you are at 60, there is a dungeon for your level. PvP is a problem, however.
I agree whole heartedly that the refinement points need to decrease dramatically, but lets be realistic, what will you do with your time when you have perfect enchants and legendary equipment? play the game? Could someone please define playing the game for me? It seems everybody is already currently doing this, and having the audacity to complain about it... people should stop treating the grind like its a bad thing. It takes me no more than an hour to complete my dailies. If it seems hard for some people they even have the option to join a party.
For example, the people complaining about refinement taking too long, might get refinement fixed only to complain that there is no longer suitably hard content available.
At the end of the day you are either grinding dungeon's or grinding dailies, otherwise you are hitting pvp which has abysmal party matching and is almost a grind in itself.
This game should not take you a month to complete, but it shouldn't take a year either. There needs to be compromise.
Given that only a small percentage of players post on the forums-
I'd bet that there are lots of players who look at the Legendary Artifacts, and Perfect Enchants... shake their heads and say, nope... I'll never see one of those.
For those people the only value these peridots and such have is the value they could get for them on the AH.. which is why they were salable in the first place.
It doesn't apply to me.. I have well over a dozen 60's, all completely viable and active. But I am working on getting one at a time as close to perfect as I can. To me, that is all that is left to do.
But I would bet that there are lots of legitimate players who will lose out because they can no longer sell something they have no intention of using. So when they get these account bound rewards, that are as valuable as fallen leaves from a tree, to them.. How are they to feel that they have actually received a reward?
One way this could apply to me, hypothetically. I do not and will not make any armor or weapon enchantments bigger than a lesser. But I am still glad when I see a shard of anything drop, because I know I can get at least some AD on the AH for it. What if the bots started farming these, and they decided to make all the shards as well as the refined enchantments BoA? Yep. The 'reward' value of the drop will have disappeared.
TBH- I never imagined owning a legendary artifact. Never. I set the reasonable goal at getting just to epic. I have no intention of playing this game forever. That is how long it would take to get even one artifact to legendary, using only drops. Some will say they did.. but I'll not be believing them.
I cant help but feel like there are certain aspects that are being overlooked.
1) developers don't work for free.
2) you shouldn't be able to conquer the game instantly without paying for it.
In PvE it really doesn't matter what gear score you are at 60, there is a dungeon for your level. PvP is a problem, however.
I agree whole heartedly that the refinement points need to decrease dramatically, but lets be realistic, what will you do with your time when you have perfect enchants and legendary equipment? play the game? Could someone please define playing the game for me? It seems everybody is already currently doing this, and having the audacity to complain about it... people should stop treating the grind like its a bad thing. It takes me no more than an hour to complete my dailies. If it seems hard for some people they even have the option to join a party.
For example, the people complaining about refinement taking too long, might get refinement fixed only to complain that there is no longer suitably hard content available.
At the end of the day you are either grinding dungeon's or grinding dailies, otherwise you are hitting pvp which has abysmal party matching and is almost a grind in itself.
This game should not take you a month to complete, but it shouldn't take a year either. There needs to be compromise.
1. Then killing the game population won't feed them.
2. I have over 1k dragon fights and 200+ runs through SoT(1 belt/4 Gems). Don't act like we are asking an unreasonable request to have our time valued.
1. Then killing the game population won't feed them.
2. I have over 1k dragon fights and 200+ runs through SoT(1 belt/4 Gems). Don't act like we are asking an unreasonable request to have our time valued.
I completely understand your point of view and I agree, time needs to be valued, but it doesn't need to be scaled down to the point where you get everything you want in minimal amount of time.
They need new ways to make revenue, people who have perfect enchants no longer buy coal wards for example. That's why im saying there needs to be a compromise
*edit: ive run eLoL about 50 times and have not been so lucky to receive a belt, but I have made around 1 mil ad from gear drops/dragon gems etc so im not entirely sure if you are really unlucky or merely speaking in extremes
I found it funny for those who said enchanting the artifacts is optional. When there is an enchantment system in place, the general goal, also the form of achievement, for the general public is to enchant their gear. Saying so what if we can't farm all the RP items ourselves then just don't enchant them, they are not needed. It is just the sour grape attitude. It is like cutting our soles to try to fit into the glass slippers. Can't farm enough RP stones, don't enchant it...then why not just say can't enchant your gear no problem just don't use it? Why not just say don't use your gear no problem you don't need to, just don't go adventuring? Why not just say don't go adventuring you don't need to, just don't play the game.
In a new light, if did they implement this, We are cut down to zen rp or farm it ourselves through daily grinds and Dun/skirmish runs.
Having BiS equipment is only optimal in PVP anyways, why would you go all legendary to kill mobs whose AI are clearly outdated.
The bot's income will be cut down, its just the same with keys. WE ALL QQ and spread the doom and gloom and threats to quit, but after a while We move on.
StrawberryCheesecake TR BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] CheeseCake House
Comments
(claps)
http://youtu.be/dm7uqlzRi7Y
I will find a way...
I really hope that they change their minds about this BOA stuff and RP items
feel free to try the legit channel. Sorry this happened to you.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Zerg's idea is my favorite - use exp to refine. That's awesome.
Slayer is on track here. When the effort/cost is too high and the reward is too low, it makes no sense to continue. That is my fundamental concern.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Really? you didn't see this coming? It's "free-to-play", this is how it works, with no monthly fee to help pay for development costs and profits, they have to continually incentivize you to spend money, the game is designed like this, you are surprised when they change the rules to get you to spend more money?
This is why I generally abhor the free-to-play model. I'd rather pay a monthly subscription fee and actually get what I pay for, rather than being strung along with that carrot dangling for ever out of my reach.
I do want to say that, for me, Neverwinter did the free-to-play model well when it originally came out. As a free-to-pay player, you could achieve everything in game as long as you had patience and a reasonable amount of time. I had hope. But, as time marched on they needed to continually fuel that development cost and profit margin, thus that carrot has gotten further and further from my reach.
That's what I loved about the initial f2p model, it let me try out a game before I decide to spend my hard earned cash. The problem is I haven't seen anything in this game that I would pay for. The content is, for lack of a better word, shallow. I love Respen's Game, great idea, but aside from that it's been rehashed/reused, small instanced content, time, after time, after time. So I have not problems being just f2p.
And I will leave you with the following, it was posted on the Neverwinter reddit and I think it sums the f2p model up perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS4VRbsjZrQ
TLDR: never spend a dime on a F2P game because what's happening in Neverwinter now, happens, eventually, with all f2p games, profit > all else
You are very lucky guy
This is 1800 chest. And efect is nothink.
Reward for me is arti from finalboss - yes i was lucky guy and win a roll.
This system and this dungon is insane.
I like him a lot, not long, not quick. One word - perfect to me player who dont have a lot time to play. Yes this 900dungons spent me a lot of time, but i dont make nothink more only this dungon all time. Still dont have boons from tyrany - sry i odnt have time to make 400quest to this.
This game goind in bad direction, very bad.
I made arti weapon - 7 try to get this one i want. I made a legendary - very hard to me. I sold my enchant weapon to have ad for some peridots, ressonance ... and for what? For few more point in stats better than old weapon. This is insane one again.
Next legendary gear/weapon/arti is not posible to me.
I have belt arti too - i bought him for ad omg. And dont even try upgrade him to legendary, stop at purple level
One ore time: this game not going in good direction.
@Chem: all You said and write here is total tru. Big grats for this.
Tigilo
Why not make the Lesser Resonance Stones and the Minor Resonance stones BoA and leave normal enchantments alone? I mean you cant put the reg enchants into the artefact gear anyway. I know it makes it harder for people to upgrade their artefact gear but isn't that what you want? I honestly think its a bad idea but I also ,on the other hand, understand why they would do this.
EDIT due to I sat here and thought about my last response after talking to the wife.
Also at the same time, I look at it this way. You farm your butt off and get your artefact weapon/gear up to Legendary, Then what? You continue to get the stones as drops. What do you do with them? You cant sell them anymore to make a small profit from something you got while doing dallies or such. So you would be forced to just discard these items or sell them to a vendor for minimal gold? I still do understand the reasoning behind the thought. But I no longer agree with it. I have farmed my butt off and gotten my gear to Legendary due to not having a real AD income except from RIX Dailies and salvaging any Epic gear I may be lucky to get. So I save up my dropped Enchants and Refine Stones to full stacks and sell them for the AD. This will stop that from being possible. Bad choice on Cryptic and Neverwinter's part.
I think overall the game is wonderful and fun, but I do see this being a step down for the game and will in turn make a lot of people walk away. In the long run that will hurt the bottom line income from the game. I agree with the original post in that no one in their right mind will spend that kind of real world money to upgrade their gear. At the same time no one in their right mind will enjoy it taking MONTHS on top of Months to upgrade their gear. Just my thoughts on this whole issue.
Not only do we have to spend an insane amount of money for just ONE piece of gear, but we also have to waste a countless amount of AD to refine.
Solution: Do NOT make the Dragon Hoard enchantment drops BtA. Keep them just the way they are.
Farming bots... equipping lesser dragon enchants and just running those farm the foundry quests with infinite mobs would be out of a job. Suggestions?
Limit the total number of imps a portal in a foundry could spawn, and limit the total number of portals allowed in a quest.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Still would result in farming at a slower rate, it depends how serious they are in the quest against bots
i like the anything gained in a foundry is bop better :-) Better yet BoA. imagine doing that on a rogue right now (before mod 5) with no real aoe.
That is more than a full-day of refining on any of my level 60 characters. So if I buy them I'm standing still and not really getting anywhere. Granted you need one or two for each level upgrade you do at rank 5 and 6, and it costs roughly 42500 diamonds for 10 preservation wards. So now you have 25000+42500 so you don't lose materials if you fail the upgrade. Again, the price changes to 100000k once you are ready to start on your purple ranks of upgrades, and you need to do this at least 14 times for each rank up.
So let's say you buy 10 packs of preservation wards for a total of 425K and do all of your rank 5 and 6 upgrades, which for 28 marks you will pay 700K. That comes to 46.875 days of max 24000 diamond refining. That is just the blues.
Now add to that 300k, 500k, and 750k to upgrade a pet, or 700k-1.2mil to upgrade a mount. Does it feel daunting yet?
People can still use it! Just not with their alts...
before them we didnt have artifact weapons and belts, now well have necks on top of it
and for common artifacts there were fey, it just wasnt as widespread
Coming to a theatre near you. Artifact companions, artifact artifacts, and artifact enchantments!
Real players in this game are not self sufficient and will not way be. Even the most hardcore real players can't farm everything they need without botting.
I'm sure not too many people agree with me, but I hate artifact gear. I hate how it was implemented, the amount of grinding/money/AD it takes, I hate it good. I wasn't gonna pay any AD or money to upgrade it. My Ancient/Black Ice Daggers are just fine till I'll get the Artifact Daggers to Epic ... or maybe to Legendary in the year 2020 :rolleyes: As for the other Artifact gear, I'm doing just fine with what I have in PVE, and don't care too much for PVP, so it's not a must for me. What am I gonna do with a Legendary that I can't do with an Epic? Make the mobs even deader?
One more thing I wanna say - Cryptic must bring some real content to both the game and the Zen Market if they want more money from me. Artifact gear feels like a gimmick to me, and if this whole thing is about getting money, well then they're not getting it from me.
There are many "fun" options they could have applied to the artifact leveling that would have avoided the botting issue entirely. It boggles the mind they picked the current route that essentially catered to bots.
- level through overflow xp.
- level through only epics (at a much higher rate than currently)
- a unique dungeon drop specifically for leveling the artifacts
I basically play this game casually, and essentially try and level my stuff cheaply. But I can totally understand why people want to level up this gear. They made the concept simple, and essentially totally in the players control (once you get the item)....but the part that players can control is just boring...
It is clear to me that the devs here aren't actually playing the game. They are running an experiment in how absurdly grindish they can make this game and still have players do it (maybe as research for another game). OR, they are trying to make the old players, with their billions of AD they earned either by exploiting or by running dungeons repeatedly and selling loot that's now worthless (IE AD options that arent valid anymore) to quit so that all thats left is the newbies.
Anyways, everything seemingly about artifacts is poorly thought out. They need a complete overhaul. This change is simply going to increase the gear gaps (the people who have exploited or are rich already have full stockpiles of the items needed and wont have any impact) and make it harder for new people to catch up.
But I have to disagree with chem on this issue.
I'm a casual player, I will play maybe 20 hours a week, most of that on the weekends. So merely a "part-time job", as opposed to the full-time avocation that many people make this game. So I am one of the players that this change is supposed to hurt the most. But I don't see it that way. Mostly because this change will most benefit honest farmers by rewarding the effort that they put into their farming. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but RP prices are TOO CHEAP. People talk endlessly about how new players don't have many ways left to make AD in order to improve their character. Well, here is a way. People who actually farm Sharandar for Fey Blessings, or actually open skill nodes to get unbound peridots and unbound enchants, and actually do IWD heroic encounters to get unbound Black Ice enchants, and do Dragon HE's to get unbound Draconic enchants, now have an opportunity to sell them to make some tangible AD without being undercut by bot scripting programs.
Will casual players ever get 5xLegendary (soon to be 7xLegendary) items? The answer is: Yes. It is just not going to be rapid.
First, the established method of ranking up artifacts by feeding it other artifacts at Rank 59 remains unchanged. So that is likely to remain the fastest method to rank up artifacts.
For artifact gear, people will just have to farm the RP themselves. If I spend an hour in an RP farming foundry, I can generally get enough RP to refine my artifact weapon up 1 rank. And that is just with 3xLesser Dragon Hoard enchants.
Is it fun? No.
Is it grindy? Yes.
HOWEVER, is it possible to make measurable progress on ranking up artifact gear using this method? YES.
Now I would advocate that should this change go live, that the devs change the loot drops in dungeon to more strongly favor Artifact RP. For instance, perhaps change the DD chest loot tables so that instead of getting a weapon/armor shard, we get EITHER a shard OR an item of artifact gear RP of at least rare quality (normal resonance stone, flawless sapphire, or, rarely, greater resonance stone or black opal). Another change might be that for skill node checks, that players are guaranteed to get an artifact gear RP item in addition to an enchant, as opposed to now when peridots/white pearls only occasionally drop from skill nodes. I think that would help with players getting RP, rewarding players who actually play the game while discouraging bots.
You need more RP as you level up your artifact weapons/belts. Sure you can get enough RP for early levels, but once you get it to epic which has cost you 571k RP so far, you will need another 4mil+ to get it to legendary. That is the main issue here, the people who wants to have the legendary gears won't be able to do it without purchasing RP from bots.
People are upset because they have taken the ONLY option available while not providing an alternative that is viable.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
I think you are missing one very important point. NW is a game. Something that people supposedly do for fun.
One of the reasons for the current state of things and the current outrage (perhaps too strong a word) is that the Mod 5 additions to the game have gone over a line. With RP Items BoA, it become will become grindy and no fun. The reason that Botter flourished was demand. And the demand was caused by the huge requirements for Artifact leveling. With that going to be dried up, the is going to cross a line.
1) developers don't work for free.
2) you shouldn't be able to conquer the game instantly without paying for it.
In PvE it really doesn't matter what gear score you are at 60, there is a dungeon for your level. PvP is a problem, however.
I agree whole heartedly that the refinement points need to decrease dramatically, but lets be realistic, what will you do with your time when you have perfect enchants and legendary equipment? play the game? Could someone please define playing the game for me? It seems everybody is already currently doing this, and having the audacity to complain about it... people should stop treating the grind like its a bad thing. It takes me no more than an hour to complete my dailies. If it seems hard for some people they even have the option to join a party.
For example, the people complaining about refinement taking too long, might get refinement fixed only to complain that there is no longer suitably hard content available.
At the end of the day you are either grinding dungeon's or grinding dailies, otherwise you are hitting pvp which has abysmal party matching and is almost a grind in itself.
This game should not take you a month to complete, but it shouldn't take a year either. There needs to be compromise.
I'd bet that there are lots of players who look at the Legendary Artifacts, and Perfect Enchants... shake their heads and say, nope... I'll never see one of those.
For those people the only value these peridots and such have is the value they could get for them on the AH.. which is why they were salable in the first place.
It doesn't apply to me.. I have well over a dozen 60's, all completely viable and active. But I am working on getting one at a time as close to perfect as I can. To me, that is all that is left to do.
But I would bet that there are lots of legitimate players who will lose out because they can no longer sell something they have no intention of using. So when they get these account bound rewards, that are as valuable as fallen leaves from a tree, to them.. How are they to feel that they have actually received a reward?
One way this could apply to me, hypothetically. I do not and will not make any armor or weapon enchantments bigger than a lesser. But I am still glad when I see a shard of anything drop, because I know I can get at least some AD on the AH for it. What if the bots started farming these, and they decided to make all the shards as well as the refined enchantments BoA? Yep. The 'reward' value of the drop will have disappeared.
TBH- I never imagined owning a legendary artifact. Never. I set the reasonable goal at getting just to epic. I have no intention of playing this game forever. That is how long it would take to get even one artifact to legendary, using only drops. Some will say they did.. but I'll not be believing them.
2. I have over 1k dragon fights and 200+ runs through SoT(1 belt/4 Gems). Don't act like we are asking an unreasonable request to have our time valued.
I completely understand your point of view and I agree, time needs to be valued, but it doesn't need to be scaled down to the point where you get everything you want in minimal amount of time.
They need new ways to make revenue, people who have perfect enchants no longer buy coal wards for example. That's why im saying there needs to be a compromise
*edit: ive run eLoL about 50 times and have not been so lucky to receive a belt, but I have made around 1 mil ad from gear drops/dragon gems etc so im not entirely sure if you are really unlucky or merely speaking in extremes
Having BiS equipment is only optimal in PVP anyways, why would you go all legendary to kill mobs whose AI are clearly outdated.
The bot's income will be cut down, its just the same with keys. WE ALL QQ and spread the doom and gloom and threats to quit, but after a while We move on.
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