BUG: Lurker's Assault Lurker's Assault is not working as described in the game, and would seem to be gamebreakingly overpowered right now. The description says "...your stealth meter regenerates very quickly in this state, allowing you to remain stealthed much longer..." What happens when stealthed and the stealth meter reaches MAX during the regeneration of Lurker's Assault is that the meter then begins to deplete as if there were no regeneration at all, then resets the meter at the end of the regeneration. The overall effect seems to be a doubling of the total time spent stealthed, which I'm guessing is WAI but the effect is very confusing.
BUG: Lurker's Assault Lurker's Assault's stealth regeneration effect does not appear to stack with the stealth meter gain given by feated Gloaming Cut
BUG: Lurker's Assault Lurker's Assault allows the TR to activate multiple stealth ENDING encounters during Lurker's Assault's stealth regeneration effect without taking the TR out of stealth. All encounters activated during that time seem to gain full benefits of being in stealth.
BUG: Wicked Reminder Wicked Reminder still stacks to a max of 5, not 3 as is mentioned in the patch notes.
BUG: Wicked Reminder Wicked Reminder's tray icon, when switching into stealth, always shows 3 charges regardless of how many are actually remaining.
Feedback: At-will damage Cloud of Steel's and Duelist's Flurry's damage feel VERY low compared to Sly Flourish, and Gloaming Cut (while in stealth). I understand that the first has range and the second gives some CC immunity, but the amount of damage lost makes them both seem not worth using.
Traded out Arterial Cut and Vicious Pursuit for Bloody Brawler and Savage Blows.
All testing done in IWD with 14k TR, lesser vorp, PvE setup
Feedback Wow, I really never had to worry about dying. The boosted deflect and the slight addition of lifesteal (I was already at 10%) kept me alive through almost all of the various mobs. I only began to die when I switched out my at-wills for testing (avoid Gloaming Cut as a scoundrel - activation time is way too long. Duelist's Flurry worked well, once you got to the flurry, but I'mma stick with my Sly Flourish.
On the flip side, it took me far too long for a TR to kill enemies.
In all, pure scoundrel is, as another poster put it, "comfortable". You never have to worry too much unless the mobs get really big.
Bug Report: Concussive Strikes, Skullcracker For CS, I see the words display, announcing that it has been procced, but there is no evidence of a disrupt and daze. No stopping of action, no purple dizzy sign. nothing.
Skullcracker is also not proccing any daze that I can detect, nor is it lengthening anything.
Feedback: Saboteuer Saboteuer overall works quite well, as intended in PvE and is a very fun way to play. Like the developer's have mentioned it really is capable of slipping in and out of stealth at will -- particularly through extensive use of charge encounters (such as Wicked Reminder or Impact Shot) and the feat [Return to Shadows]. However, it is quite impossible to use it in the way envisioned due to the conditional use of [Return to Shadows] - particularly the part where it requires "encounter hit from the rear". AS THERE HAVE BEEN NO REAL INCREASE IN MOBILITY TO TRs this condition is woefully difficult to fulfill in PvP
Suggestions:
Tweak Return to Shadows so that it no longer requires "hit from the rear", but at a lower stealth meter gain (20% should suffice)
Feedback: Executioner Executioner is currently performing way over expectations, both in PvE and PvP. No doubt a welcome addition in terms of PvE, but in PvP the damage -- even when considering the general 'all or nothing' nature of the path/build -- is excessive, to say the least. The largest hit I've seen, coming from no outside buffs from a 3rd player, was around 70k pure damage, actual hit 46k or so.
Suggestions:
Tone down the damage, what else?
Feedback: Scoundrel Just as feared, Scoundrel isn't up to snuff. A lot of inherent weaknesses where just a slight increase in deflection cannot overcome. Particularly speaking, unlike the "Lightning Reflexes" in Champions Online or the Neverwinter HRs -- in which case both of the instances feature exra heals procced by deflection -- the TR does not have synergizing features which help increase survivability despite high deflection. Overall in the Scoundrel's case, the general defenses are too weak to be considered to match the loss of prolonged stealth. Even in PvE terms.
The same can be said for extra CCs -- particularly daze. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE IT ENOUGH, THAT BOTH THE CC TYPE, AND ITS DURATION, IS WOEFULLY INADEQUATE for both PvE and PvP purposes. [Concussive Strikes] is both unnoticeable for PvP and PvE. [Skullcracker] is difficult to use due to long internal cooldown (20s), as well as the base daze time is often much too low to be able to land extra hits to extend the duration.
PARTICULARLY SINCE THE TR DID NOT RECEIVE ANY BUFFS TO MOBILITY, the very same, disastrous phenomenon that currently happens in PvP, repeats itself. You daze your opponent, and yet, he simply moves out of attack range in full speed.
Scoundrel path gives up all the wonderful amount of damage the Executioner deals, or the quick stealth capabilities (at least in PvE) of Saboteuer. Then the person who chooses it should be rewarded with as much survivability and CC. Currently, the Scoundrel has neither
Suggestions:
[Skullcracker] daze, needs to be changed into a stun. I am dumbfounded as to why the developers continue to deny TRs of stuns, as well as long duration CCs. The latter, should be allowed at least for the Scoundrel path
[Skullcracker] needs longer base CC duration -- at least 3 seconds base, with 4 attacks of 0.5 second extensions... and in the form of STUN, not daze
[Skullcracker] needs shorter internal cooldwon -- somewhere between 10~20 secs
[Concussive Strikes] is nigh useless as it is...it needs to be changed into a feat which increases survivability against CCs -- by way of either providing a chance to escape it, or greatly increased durability while under the effects of it. The marginal increase of deflection is not enough
All the Lifesteal related feats, should be changed to other types of defensives that offer damage resistances, or CC resistances, or special 'retaliatory' attacls
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You should really really test the changes out to TR if you think they're bad. I've done some initial testing on my TR. executioner has some yummy burst potential. I'd like to see feedback from some pros on that tree though. But sabetuer.....mymymy.....it is fabulous. Sometimes words just don't do a tree a justice.
Agreed, anyone who is JUST complaining about these changes just isn't getting the big picture of what they are giving rogue in terms of feats. Just tested the changes in preview and I have to say that I was blown away, especially by saboteur, One with the shadows is so much better than it reads. Just now I was able to hit 70k lashing blades with no debuffs. GC was hitting VERY hard, 20k+ was not uncommon. Whirlwind of blades + blitz combos were exceeding 50k+ aoe dmg. On Executioner, I would say DPS potential exceeds Sabotuer especially in terms of single target. However, setting up combos and timing things is much more key. Shadow of demise triggers once per stealth on the first attack you make. Meaning if you strike a mob with an at-will it is largely wasted. If, on the other hand you start off with a Shadow born whirlwind of blades, follow that with blitz, follow that with dazing strike, your looking at potentially something in the order of a 20-30k shadow of demise proc on EVERY mob you hit with your initial whirlwind. For Single target, start with courage breaker or shocking execution, follow up with lashing, end with flurry. You'll see a very impressive shadow of demise proc. Needless to say that executioners, and rogues in general would do well to boost their AP gain and possibly load invisible infiltrator for PVE if these changes hit live.
I'm not seeing the ITC nerf as all that big of a deal so far. PVE damage is hugely improved, easily double or triple M4, which while dragging TR out of the black hole it was resting in, does not bring them even close to the same level as CWs for instance. Executioner ST damage is very nice however. The problem here is that whirlwind is the only real PVE daily a rogue has, and Blitz is the only real PVE encounter a rogue has. Impact shot, deft strike, path of the blade, lashing blade, and wicked reminder are all still utter garbage in PVE dungeons. WR and lashing are decent for single target, but that's it, just decent. So for PVE these changes are a good start, but TR needs more, namely a single decent PVE encounter other than blitz.
PVP is another story entirely. Sabotuer is going to be able to One-shot squishies without ever EVEN LEAVING STEALTH. Executioners with a daily up are pretty much going to one rotate ANYONE with ease. I said this before, and I'll say it again, rogue damage needs to be different in PVE and PVP. I would do this by disabling auto-crit in PVP only. If something isn't done about this, there is going to be hell to pay, mark my words.
In other news, if the WK paragon wasn't dead before, it most certainly is now. GC is the only useable at-will, and it's decent for PVE and crazygood for PVP. Which is mostly because it is the only at-will that doesn't drain stealth. Not that nerfing the crp out of GC would keep a rogue from shredding people in PVP, because it wouldn't. Meanwhile, every other at-will besides GC is nigh useless. I said before that the stealth drain should be changed from 15% to 5%. I'll change my stance on that to 2-3% max. Or better yet NO stealth drain for at-wills would go a long ways towards putting rogues where they need to be for PVE, meanwhile can we see a real solution to the issue of perma-stealth in PVP specifically?
I won't dismiss people who are bringing up the issue of rogue survivability. However, I don't think ITC should be the focus of this issue. For me personally, rogue has always been fun in that regard. PVE is so easy to the point of boredom. Epic shores was an eye opener in that I was actually dying and had to adapt. Still, adapt I did, and now I often tank the boss, when I can get aggro with M4 dps haha. I would welcome a 3rd dodge pip, not sure that I need it *shrug.
Setup was slightly different - some heroic feats reshuffled, so control was slightly altered (sorry; bad science, I know).
All testing done in IWD with 14k GS (well, 13.7k after re-feating: more damage, less HP) and lesser vorpal enchant.
Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel, Dazing Strike, Lashing Blade, Path of the Blade, Courage Breaker, Shocking Execution, First Strike, Skillful Infiltrator
Paragon Feats:
Arterial Cut
Vicious Pursuit
Twisted Grin
Last Moments
Shadowborn
Exposed Weakness
Shadow of Demise
Feedback: Powers Heh.
hehehehe.
Oh, I can hear the PvP nerf threads coming.
Off my opening combo (Stealth + First Strike + Lashing Blade), I pulled a 50k crit.
Initially I tried using Blitz, but after testing with PotB, I stuck with the latter as it did better DoT, meaning more reliable lifesteal and better survivability.
And for Shocking Execution. Well, the first time I used it, it did an underwhelming, yet improved 33k no crit. Later, when using it again, I scored...
<pause for effect>
...100k crit. That's not going to last too long
Feedback: Feats Honestly, with the exception of Twisted Grin (saw no point; maybe it'll be better in a dungeon setting) and the other T1 feat, everything's pretty well stacked. My player suggestion, forego the last 5 points in Executioner and put them in Scoundrel T1 lifesteal. It's not much, but it'll help you stay alive even better.
My summary, Executioner is slightly OP, but very fun. It's surprisingly survivable, if you use the right powers.
Edit:PotB is still bad for large mobs. It doesn't do enough damage to steal health for damage from multiple sources. Keep it for burning bosses, though, but Blitz it'll have to be for taking out the trash.
I tried the saboteur tree and I used Path of the blade then stealth and gloaming cut all enemies and battles were over pretty fast (I tested it on random encounters in Dwarven valley) Didn't really use much else, I also had slotted ITC and Dazing strike.
I just tried this out in Icewind pass.. and it's really crazy. Path of the Blade, stealth and I used lashing blade if my stealth was about to run out. Put in Shadow Strike, full stealth bar, One With the Shadows go off (capstone) or you kill something with 5/5 Return to the Shadows, rinse and repeat. Stealth loss is minimal with Gloaming Cut and you actually gain stealth back with 5/5 Sneaky Stabber feat.. Downside is that everything just stands around with a ? over their heads waiting to be stabbed like a pinata...
Of course this was just solo play testing, not sure how this will fair in a dungeon or skirmish.
Shadow Strike
Lashing Blade
Path of the Blade
Gloaming Cut
Cloud of Steel
Skillful Infiltrator
Tenacious Concealment
5/5 Shady Preperations
5/5 Sneaky Stabber
5/5 Return to Shadows, 5/5 Gutterborn's Touch
5/5 Ambusher's Haste, 5/5 Shadowy Opportunity
One with the Shadows
I tried Arterial Cut from Executioner over Ambusher's Haste but without parsing and lower GS (11k), it felt like Ambusher's Haste was the winner. I feel as the Crit rating goes up, Ambusher's Haste will be much more felt, especially paired with a Vorpal enchant.
First of all, there is a bug on preview that allows you to dodge infinitely if you have enough stamina to execute a dodge while in stealth. (Possibly only under certain build conditions? Such as putting a point or all 5 points into twilight adept or in the feat which grants stamina?). Real testing cannot go underway because this ties directly with survivability since dodging while stealthed can grant stealth meter. While it would appear rogue damage is somewhat excessive in some 1v1 situations, their survivability is not reflective of how it would be if these changes were to go live due to the dodge bug. So while it may seem like that have a bit too much damage, they will have even less defensive capability if this were implemented properly without a dodge bug.
0
mojoratMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited October 2014
FEEDBAck
I Specced as Saboteur, for the first part of this I was just shy of 14k gs in full profound.
I took Knifes Edge, shadowy preperation, return to shadows, ambushers haste, shadowy opportunist, one with the shadows and arterial cut.
For most of the run , i used Wicked Reminder, lashing blade and shadow strike or Impossible to catch, At wills testd were Sly Flurish, Gloaming Cut and Cloud of Steel. I also Tested, Blitz and PAth of the blade at various times.
First Impressions
I enjoyed the over all playstyle resented by the new saboteur, i have always liked the pop in and out of stealth thing as a playstyle and i like the pver all feel of how this works. I ran Bigrins tomb, killed a number of Frost giants and attempted several levels of Heroic encounter.
For Bigrins Tome i used Lashing blade and, wicked reminder and at first ITC. However i found the new ITc did not give me the breathing room i wanted and went to shadow strike. This was one of the easiest runs of Bigrins tomb i have ever done.
Outside, i used Paath of the blade ITc and shadow strike and did a few giants and other things. My Path of the blade was doing 16-20k damage over its duration and with the double pulse for first half out of stealth the damage was amazing.
I then tried several heroic encounters, and more or less failed the miserably. I found the only real way i could succeed was.. well permastealth. If I used Path of the blade and gloaming cut and ran around in circles and did everything to not leave stealth i cuould win.
I tried doing HEroics with the same power combo that worked amazingly well in bigrins tomb and basically in any length of time if the NPC could se eme i got plastered. This is when i really noticed our inability to just roll out of the way.
Finally, Opinions on the powers individually, along with percived bugs
Wicked Reminder, i really liked how this worked out. Witht he pop in and out of stealth i could apply the biger debuff, i also found it useful to trigger powers that needed an encounter power to trigger them.
New LAshing Blade, Seems similar to before the new damage was nice but the cooldown was noticable as an ongoing issue.
NEw path of the blade.. I cant tell if this is simply Awesome or overpowered, nonetheless the high amount of damage was noticable. This is a big deal because i tried running Blitz over PotB and basically found that unless i am doing an aoe centric plan there is no reason to use blitz other than the slow.
Blitz, the new damage was nice but otherwise see above, i have always liked this power the hop back is useful etc but.. Potb is just soo.. much more
Gloaming Cut, This seemed actually a bit obscene i did several hits for 30-40 thousand while using it. basically if you have this At-will there is no reason to ever use DF or Sly Flourish.
Sly Flourish, I found the damag was actually okay with the auto crit while my stealth remained but as i said this contrasts starkly with gloaming cut. This is noticable as i have a Sly Flourish artifact weapon.
Impossible to catch, I basically found it useless as a get me breathing room power when i was at low hp. i quickly replaced it with shadow strike.
Over all i liked the feats for saboteur, but a few observations and a possible bug.
When doing stuff solo i found the 'attack from the rear' stuff difficult to use and doing so out of stealth nearly impossble. Witht he giant golf swing attacks some of the gints did i could do it a bit but then i quickly ran out of stamina.
I found the biggest thing i wanted was the ability to roll away from attacks and my inability to do so became evident quickly
Finally,
Bug
Some of the combination of feats i took ment that sometimes when i used an encounter power I did not leave stealth. this ment i could Wicked reminder a target /then/ lashing blade them without ever leaving stealth.
Anyhow i hope the above info is useful.. i wasnt sure how to do the colour coding so i hope this isnt hideous to look at.
0
fr3akout3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 72
Greetings Adventurers!
We haven’t really been happy with the position the Rogue has been in for quite a while now, so we wanted to take a long hard look at their mechanics and adjust some of them to make a more rewarding experience and create some distinct play styles. To that end we have made a lot of power tweaks, adjusted Stealth, and created 3 brand new feat trees.
Overview
Before we talk about the other changes, let’s talk about the big one. Perma-stealth is going to get much harder to play. We don’t really like the gameplay of “invisible attacker dealing steady damage” because the cases for counterplay are limited and require more skill to fight against than we feel is appropriate. Therefore we made two major changes to stealth. Firstly it will drain a little bit when you attack from stealth. To compensate for this you will get 100% critical chance while stealthed. We want stealth in Neverwinter to move towards a quick burst in power that rewards smart play to confuse foes, rather than an effect you can keep up indefinitely.
Now, Feat Trees. Rogue feat trees were fairly disjointed before, with mostly lackluster capstones. Given that we tore them out and rebuilt them with unique goals in mind. Saboteur will be focused on rebuilding stealth and striking foes from behind. Scoundrel will have access to controls and stuns (including a powerful daze that can lock a foe down) while being a very durable fighter. Executioner is focused on using a golden opportunity to deal an incredible amount of spike damage.
Without further ado, let’s look at the changes.
Powers
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack.
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage.
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank).
Whirlwind of Blades: No longer ignores Damage Resistance and Immunity and can be Deflected.
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%).
Courage Breaker: Now increases power by 25% (up from 10%).
Courage Breaker: Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Deft Strike: Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity.
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%.
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5).
Path of the Blade: Duration increased to 20 seconds (up from 10).
Path of the Blade: Damage reduced by roughly 20%.
Path of the Blade: Tooltip now displays the total damage this power will deal, rather than how much it deals each tick.
Impact Shot: Base Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Shadow Strike: Stealth: Daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 3).
Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks on players.
Wicked Reminder: Maximum stacks reduced to 3.
Wicked Reminder: Now reduces the target's defenses by 7% per stack (up from 4%).
Wicked Reminder: Now has 3 charges and 1 charge is refilled every 5 seconds.
Wicked Reminder: Damage increased by roughly 10%.
Paragon Paths
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Now lasts 15 seconds (up from 7.5).
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Damage reduced by roughly 10%.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Now correctly breaks CC on the teleport.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Initial damage increased by roughly 20%.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Follow up damage increased by 50%.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Tooltip now lists the total damage this power does, instead of the damage the initial throw will do.
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Combat Advantage time increased to 6 seconds base (up from 3).
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
WhisperKnife: Razor Action: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 100%. The Damage over Time component tied to Seething Knives now only triggers when the player has points in Seething Knives.
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Does not drain Stealth Meter when used from Stealth.
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Now deals up to 25% more damage as the target's HP diminishes (up from 20%). This effect is increased by 25% per rank (up from 5%).
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: No longer ignores Damage Immunity effects. It still ignores all sources of damage resistance and cannot be deflected.
Hi there
We need to see some re-work on STEALTH and ITC
1st) ITC, does not give the TR support anymore, seems like a dead encounter. If use during stealth then other encounters don't get the kick that they deserve. With ITC in current stage, the TR is very fragile now.
2nd) Stealth needs to be changed so that it regenerates during fights just like Unstoppable for the GWF. Maybe if we get hit or if we strike an enemy that we replenish out STEALTH slowly. It can diminish while stealth-ed as is.
I have tested the new feats on Preview in IWD and I understand the principle but my TR is going to be doing less damage now than before. We can use STEALTH and smash 1 encounter in and then pretty much have to kill the whole group of mobs to get our stealth back which makes the EXECUTIONER feats kinda Meh hence the need of STEALTH regeneration during battle while we use at wills or encounters. This is forcing the TR to run away and to use Shadow Strike 100% of the time which should not be intended. This really needs to be looked at.
New TR's will have problems grinding and leveling by the looks of it.
It seems to me that Perma Stealth still exist, but can only use Gloming Cut as the attack.
Are the Devs planning to allow Perma Stealth and 100% crit Gloming Cut? If they do, then it seems not too bad.
Also TR is hard to balabce in PvE and PvP. TR aimst o deal way more single target damage than all other classes, which means they will either be decent in PvP & terrible in PvE or overpower in PvP & decent in PvE.
TR still needs a higher damage buff. Double maybe, so they can top damage chart just with single target attacks.
However there need to be a 'class feature debuff' of dealing ~50% less damage on players.
Please revert back to the old Disheartening Strike, the new one does LESS damage and the "Longer last" isn't even noticeable (Current DiSH does 12-13K and the one on preview does 9.7K...The only way where DiSH does more damage is when you launch it from stealth (Does ~13K)... but with this new stealth mechanic.. it's a no go.
Less burst, but more overall. If you spec Executioner you build up an awful lot of damage for the capstone to trigger. I was killing some of the ToD mobs with a single DS hit at the start of the fight. By the time I dealt with their colleagues they were dead and I never needed to touch them again.
Note that on Live, these scaling enemies are quite weak against any reasonably geared and skilled level 60. The corresponding lairs or IWD would offer a better testing ground.
I ran Ghost Stories last night with a thrown-together WK Executioner build. I annihilated everything. It was one of the easiest Ghost runs I've done on any of my toons. And my WK is far from BiS.
LB from stealth does ungodly damage. You can practically one-shot the Golems. DS synergises well with the executioner capstone even if used out of stealth. Stuff dies really quickly. And I basically ran with just two encounters (LB + SS) as I slotted VP but never used it (remains too clunky IMO). Adding in PoB or Blitz would have made the run even smoother.
[1] Stealth is our defensive tool, it should refills steady always. Or do Gwfs have to use "shadow-unstoppable" to tab again? Or does determination stop refilling while being attacked? Do CWs use shadow-tab-slot to use their 4th encounter? shadow-divinity-strike ?
[2] micro-dazes seems lag more than daze
[3] 100% critical chance is a trap. I cannot attack from stealth or land multiple encounters.
[4] duelist flurry is dead.
[5] maybe first strike has to be rework in something "aspect of the lone wolf" like. Who in the hell use first strike?
So the first encounter "activates" Shadowy Demise, and essentially all damage done in that window is lumped into a 50% proc at the end of the 6 seconds?
Because I tried a stealth lashing blade, hit a dummy for 55k and waited 6 seconds.
The Shadowy Demise proc at the end ticked the dummy for an additional 55k, displaying as two instances of ~27k in my combat log.
Is it double counting the "activating" encounter and the damage it does toward the 50% proc at the end of Shadowy Demise?
2 GWFS, 3 TRs, 2 GFs, 1 HR, 1 CW
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited October 2014
Overall the changes are pretty good.
Several things need to be taken into consideration.
1) dazing strike takes too long to activate
2) Impossible to catch does not do anything worth while anymore
It seems we will do better just to stealth and gank people with high spike damage / shadow strike and wait for next victim.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
The Duelist Flurry drain the stealth bar too fast, even with lurker assault active. My suggestion is to let the 15% stealth consume for the first 2 strike and remove for the other, so it will be usefull in pve
| Yolt - TR MI Executioner |
< Guild: Gravity X Game >
The Duelist Flurry drain the stealth bar too fast, even with lurker assault active. My suggestion is to let the 15% stealth consume for the first 2 strike and remove for the other, so it will be usefull in pve
^^^^
This. So much this.
Also, about the ITC. It really needs to be reverted to its current state.
Just think about SoT skirmish. The bos scan EASILY do 80k damage on you. (WIth non stealth itc that's still 20k~ish (at least on me, rofl) We REALLY need that to survive (if we want to stay in the battle, of course. And not just flee away, and do some dancing in the background).
Well having played IWD in the test shard with my 14K WK using the three different trees, trying as many combinations of encounters as possible to see effects I feel very disheartened. Basically if they give a full respec I will roll MI and try to see if I like that play style – otherwise I just won’t bother full stop.
I know this is not very constructive but you all know that a TR has no defence other than the TAB, and with these changes a WK either attacks with less damaging at wills and dies, or stands around in stealth doing nothing. Perhaps it is just me – but what’s the point, you may as well just roll a melee HR and have a decent chance of not being dead, or perhaps a SW and have some mobility and mob killing power.
I’d be interested in hearing any other WK’s opinions – MI still have an at will to use, we don’t full stop, MI’s still have some use of stealth, we don’t full stop – So all these improvements to damage while in stealth just don’t happen because you are not in stealth long enough as a WK - that’s my opinion.
Backstab Wicked Reminder with the Saboteur feat 'Return to Shadows' hits twice and gives back ~50% of your stealth meter.
Pretty neato if you can land it. Could see it being pretty difficult in hectic pvp, but you might be able to wiggle through some people and proc 2 backstabs to get back into stealth very quickly.
Also follows up on close range impact shot where you can sneak in a backstab wicked for a free 50% stealth meter immediately after coming out of it. And of course going in and out of stealth constantly is refreshing cooldowns ALOT with Shady Prep.
Well having played IWD in the test shard with my 14K WK using the three different trees, trying as many combinations of encounters as possible to see effects I feel very disheartened. Basically if they give a full respec I will roll MI and try to see if I like that play style – otherwise I just won’t bother full stop.
I know this is not very constructive but you all know that a TR has no defence other than the TAB, and with these changes a WK either attacks with less damaging at wills and dies, or stands around in stealth doing nothing. Perhaps it is just me – but what’s the point, you may as well just roll a melee HR and have a decent chance of not being dead, or perhaps a SW and have some mobility and mob killing power.
I’d be interested in hearing any other WK’s opinions – MI still have an at will to use, we don’t full stop, MI’s still have some use of stealth, we don’t full stop – So all these improvements to damage while in stealth just don’t happen because you are not in stealth long enough as a WK - that’s my opinion.
Haven't tried IWD yet but in Ghost Stories ToD lair on my WK ExecutionerI had lots of DPS and plenty of survivability through my 10% Lifesteal plus some dodging and use of SS to get back into stealth. Running First Strike gives a crazy alpha strike capability out of stealth with LB. Anything that survives the initial hit dies when the 6 second proc from the capstone kicks in. DF still hits for plenty out of stealth and DS is a great DoT.
More testing today, but at the moment I'm generally liking the changes.
I agree with other posters that we need more manoeuvrability. Also please remove the effect of damage stopping Stealth regen. This really is not necessary now that Perma stealth has gone and makes it very difficult to go in and out of stealth when so many of the newer mobs put DoTs on you.
Bug: Saboteur
Deft Strike as an attack from behind should works with feats:
T3
•Return to Shadows: While behind your target, dealing damage with Encounter Powers refills 10/20/30/40/50% of your Stealth Meter. This effect cannot trigger when leaving stealth.
•Gutterborn's Touch: While behind your target, dealing damage grants you Gutterborn for 6 seconds which causes you to ignore 2/4/6/8/10% more Armor on the target and increases your Power by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect does not stack.
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited October 2014
I haven't tested but:
Stealth drain:
Perhaps instead of the 15% flat reduction, the stealth drain should be tied to the damage and animation length.
Like: Stealth drain = At-Will_BaseDamage_modifier * (1 / Animation_length) * balancing_factor
In this way small fast attacks will drain little and slow heavy attacks will drain more, but, slow attacks like DF first and second will drain less than Sly because of their lower damage.
This way the At-Will choise will not be related to their stealth drain and more a tactical choice.
ITC:
Imo, in PvE using ITC from stealth is a huge waste of damage potential (could have used lashing instead for example), and mainly used to remain alive during DF lock or to stay near the target when dodging is not available or wasteful.
As such, perhaps, adding some damage resistance to non-invisible ITC will add to PvE TR survivability, and adding movment speed to invisible variation will add to the TR tactical play in PvP
in example:
Non invis ITC : 100% deflect chance (as live), +20% Damage resistance, +10% movement speed
Invis ITC: 100% deflect chance, +40% Damage resistance, +30% movement speed
"Gutterborn's Touch: While behind your target, dealing damage grants you Gutterborn for 6 seconds which causes you to ignore 2/4/6/8/10% more Armor on the target and increases your Power by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect does not stack."
I think PvP is to dynamic to look for someones behind to attack (except first hit from stealth perhaps or using deft strike) so it's not that useful.
And in PvE, If the Armor ignore is same as Armor Penteration, most TRs will have ArP capped so it wont help, and in addition many of the big mobs are not attack-from-behind friendly, the dragons have tail lashes and DF will pull under them or to the side and other like SP last boss for example don't have a clear "behind"
BUG: CHARISMA does NOT give 1% damage bonus while in stealth like stated by the tooltip
Feedback: CHARISMA
If you cant fix how charisma work (it should give 1% no 0.01%) just rework it in Armor ignored
Feedback: overall basic rework
[1] Stealth is our defensive tool, it should refills steady always. Or do Gwfs have to use "shadow-unstoppable" to tab again? Or does determination stop refilling while being attacked? Do CWs use shadow-tab-slot to use their 4th encounter? shadow-divinity-strike ?
[2] micro-dazes seems lag more than daze
[3] 100% critical chance is a trap. I cannot attack from stealth or land multiple encounters.
[4] duelist flurry is dead.
[5] maybe first strike has to be rework in something "aspect of the lone wolf" like. Who in the hell use first strike?
[6] we need way more movement speed and mobility
BUG: SABOTEUR - PATH OF THE BLADE.
PATH THE BLADE still doesnt procs effets and weapon enchantments like VORPAL and SABOTEUR SHADOW OPPORTUNITY and "ONE WITH THE SHADOWS".
In the executioner tree does not apply: "shadow of demise"
BUG: SHADOW OF DEMISE.
Procs on every source of damage instead of encounters only multiple times in a row.
FEEDBACK: SHADOW OF DEMISE
Let it continue to proc on every source of damage but fix the multiple procs. it should proc once every 6 sec.
Feedback: SABOTEUR - SHADOW STRIKE
Shadow strike should not be able to activate one with the shadows! IS NO SENSE
Shadow strike needs 2 seconds less cooldown to compensate a bit the at will madness
FeedbacK: SABOTEUR - SHADOW PREPARATIONS
That 10% cooldown reduction while entering in stealth is about 1 sec on a CD of 20 sec.....underwhelming
BUG: DUELIST FLURRY STEALTH CONSUMPTION
[1]I m not able to land a single duelist flurry without being out of stealth.
[2]Duelist flurry go against lurker assault deleting its effets. Basically a daily wasted
Feedback: First strike
TOO CHEESE while adding little to nothing to TR performance. It just allows to throw a 50k lashing blade in pvp.....toxic gameplay
I would like a passive to reduce cooldown and adding DR
Feedback: stealth
in addition to what i said in the last feedback/bug, stealth should have a natural way to refills steady. Once in combat there is no way to regain stealth without using utility encounters which invalidate the meaning of this rework.
A tab mechanics should not be usable just throught utility encounters. Make me go in stealth on regular basis without ruining my encounter bar.
Feedback: GLOAMING CUT REFILLING STEALTH - SABOTEUR
consider to just this in: every time you correctly hit your enemy with gloaming cut you gain a free dodge.
This would reward smart playing while giving a bit of stealth more throught twilight adept if feated and adding mobility
I tested a bit on the Preview Server and the DPS is really awesome. At the actual state i dealing 14K DPS with the current changes i deal 25K DPS. That is much. But i see a problem in PvE for the stealth "nerf". I can't do a flurry while stealth or attack properly in PvE which is a problem because i can't use most of the Feats Effects.
I think the best would be if stealth wouldn't decrease at all if activated and only decrease when i attack in addition flurry should only decrease the the stealth for the first two attacks (not for the 8 fast hits afterwards). Lurker Assault should have a small regeneration ratio if i am in stealth. It should be enough regeneration to compensate the first two attacks. In addition the % of decreasing the stealth meter if attack an enemy should be around 30%. Which means you are out of stealth after your 4th attack.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Feedback: stealth
in addition to what i said in the last feedback/bug, stealth should have a natural way to refills steady. Once in combat there is no way to regain stealth without using utility encounters which invalidate the meaning of this rework.
Sab TR can refill stealth using Deft Strike and Wicked Reminder.
Feedback: Stealth
In most games where combat breaks stealth, stealth is a toggle and does not drain over time if no attacks are made. Please consider this change. At the moment it is difficult to get into the correct position and still have enough stealth left to work with. This would not be such a big problem if the Rogue were not so slow and unmanoeuvrable.
Shadow of Demise is just plain broken. The damage shadow of demise does procs another stack of Shadow of Demise if in stealth, Combine that with constant stealth and constant damage and this is the outcome. This is just something small of what is can do, I have been able to stack it to the point it hit the dummy for 100m+ damage
Through further testing it seems that you can stack it onto multiple targets
Comments
Lurker's Assault is not working as described in the game, and would seem to be gamebreakingly overpowered right now. The description says "...your stealth meter regenerates very quickly in this state, allowing you to remain stealthed much longer..." What happens when stealthed and the stealth meter reaches MAX during the regeneration of Lurker's Assault is that the meter then begins to deplete as if there were no regeneration at all, then resets the meter at the end of the regeneration. The overall effect seems to be a doubling of the total time spent stealthed, which I'm guessing is WAI but the effect is very confusing.
BUG: Lurker's Assault
Lurker's Assault's stealth regeneration effect does not appear to stack with the stealth meter gain given by feated Gloaming Cut
BUG: Lurker's Assault
Lurker's Assault allows the TR to activate multiple stealth ENDING encounters during Lurker's Assault's stealth regeneration effect without taking the TR out of stealth. All encounters activated during that time seem to gain full benefits of being in stealth.
BUG: Wicked Reminder
Wicked Reminder still stacks to a max of 5, not 3 as is mentioned in the patch notes.
BUG: Wicked Reminder
Wicked Reminder's tray icon, when switching into stealth, always shows 3 charges regardless of how many are actually remaining.
Feedback: At-will damage
Cloud of Steel's and Duelist's Flurry's damage feel VERY low compared to Sly Flourish, and Gloaming Cut (while in stealth). I understand that the first has range and the second gives some CC immunity, but the amount of damage lost makes them both seem not worth using.
Okay, Panic.
Follow-up with pure scoundrel.
Traded out Arterial Cut and Vicious Pursuit for Bloody Brawler and Savage Blows.
All testing done in IWD with 14k TR, lesser vorp, PvE setup
Feedback
Wow, I really never had to worry about dying. The boosted deflect and the slight addition of lifesteal (I was already at 10%) kept me alive through almost all of the various mobs. I only began to die when I switched out my at-wills for testing (avoid Gloaming Cut as a scoundrel - activation time is way too long. Duelist's Flurry worked well, once you got to the flurry, but I'mma stick with my Sly Flourish.
On the flip side, it took me far too long for a TR to kill enemies.
In all, pure scoundrel is, as another poster put it, "comfortable". You never have to worry too much unless the mobs get really big.
Bug Report: Concussive Strikes, Skullcracker
For CS, I see the words display, announcing that it has been procced, but there is no evidence of a disrupt and daze. No stopping of action, no purple dizzy sign. nothing.
Skullcracker is also not proccing any daze that I can detect, nor is it lengthening anything.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Saboteuer overall works quite well, as intended in PvE and is a very fun way to play. Like the developer's have mentioned it really is capable of slipping in and out of stealth at will -- particularly through extensive use of charge encounters (such as Wicked Reminder or Impact Shot) and the feat [Return to Shadows].
However, it is quite impossible to use it in the way envisioned due to the conditional use of [Return to Shadows] - particularly the part where it requires "encounter hit from the rear". AS THERE HAVE BEEN NO REAL INCREASE IN MOBILITY TO TRs this condition is woefully difficult to fulfill in PvP
Suggestions:
Tweak Return to Shadows so that it no longer requires "hit from the rear", but at a lower stealth meter gain (20% should suffice)
Feedback: Executioner
Executioner is currently performing way over expectations, both in PvE and PvP. No doubt a welcome addition in terms of PvE, but in PvP the damage -- even when considering the general 'all or nothing' nature of the path/build -- is excessive, to say the least. The largest hit I've seen, coming from no outside buffs from a 3rd player, was around 70k pure damage, actual hit 46k or so.
Suggestions:
Tone down the damage, what else?
Feedback: Scoundrel
Just as feared, Scoundrel isn't up to snuff. A lot of inherent weaknesses where just a slight increase in deflection cannot overcome. Particularly speaking, unlike the "Lightning Reflexes" in Champions Online or the Neverwinter HRs -- in which case both of the instances feature exra heals procced by deflection -- the TR does not have synergizing features which help increase survivability despite high deflection. Overall in the Scoundrel's case, the general defenses are too weak to be considered to match the loss of prolonged stealth. Even in PvE terms.
The same can be said for extra CCs -- particularly daze. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE IT ENOUGH, THAT BOTH THE CC TYPE, AND ITS DURATION, IS WOEFULLY INADEQUATE for both PvE and PvP purposes. [Concussive Strikes] is both unnoticeable for PvP and PvE. [Skullcracker] is difficult to use due to long internal cooldown (20s), as well as the base daze time is often much too low to be able to land extra hits to extend the duration.
PARTICULARLY SINCE THE TR DID NOT RECEIVE ANY BUFFS TO MOBILITY, the very same, disastrous phenomenon that currently happens in PvP, repeats itself. You daze your opponent, and yet, he simply moves out of attack range in full speed.
Scoundrel path gives up all the wonderful amount of damage the Executioner deals, or the quick stealth capabilities (at least in PvE) of Saboteuer. Then the person who chooses it should be rewarded with as much survivability and CC. Currently, the Scoundrel has neither
Suggestions:
[Skullcracker] daze, needs to be changed into a stun. I am dumbfounded as to why the developers continue to deny TRs of stuns, as well as long duration CCs. The latter, should be allowed at least for the Scoundrel path
[Skullcracker] needs longer base CC duration -- at least 3 seconds base, with 4 attacks of 0.5 second extensions... and in the form of STUN, not daze
[Skullcracker] needs shorter internal cooldwon -- somewhere between 10~20 secs
[Concussive Strikes] is nigh useless as it is...it needs to be changed into a feat which increases survivability against CCs -- by way of either providing a chance to escape it, or greatly increased durability while under the effects of it. The marginal increase of deflection is not enough
All the Lifesteal related feats, should be changed to other types of defensives that offer damage resistances, or CC resistances, or special 'retaliatory' attacls
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Agreed, anyone who is JUST complaining about these changes just isn't getting the big picture of what they are giving rogue in terms of feats. Just tested the changes in preview and I have to say that I was blown away, especially by saboteur, One with the shadows is so much better than it reads. Just now I was able to hit 70k lashing blades with no debuffs. GC was hitting VERY hard, 20k+ was not uncommon. Whirlwind of blades + blitz combos were exceeding 50k+ aoe dmg. On Executioner, I would say DPS potential exceeds Sabotuer especially in terms of single target. However, setting up combos and timing things is much more key. Shadow of demise triggers once per stealth on the first attack you make. Meaning if you strike a mob with an at-will it is largely wasted. If, on the other hand you start off with a Shadow born whirlwind of blades, follow that with blitz, follow that with dazing strike, your looking at potentially something in the order of a 20-30k shadow of demise proc on EVERY mob you hit with your initial whirlwind. For Single target, start with courage breaker or shocking execution, follow up with lashing, end with flurry. You'll see a very impressive shadow of demise proc. Needless to say that executioners, and rogues in general would do well to boost their AP gain and possibly load invisible infiltrator for PVE if these changes hit live.
I'm not seeing the ITC nerf as all that big of a deal so far. PVE damage is hugely improved, easily double or triple M4, which while dragging TR out of the black hole it was resting in, does not bring them even close to the same level as CWs for instance. Executioner ST damage is very nice however. The problem here is that whirlwind is the only real PVE daily a rogue has, and Blitz is the only real PVE encounter a rogue has. Impact shot, deft strike, path of the blade, lashing blade, and wicked reminder are all still utter garbage in PVE dungeons. WR and lashing are decent for single target, but that's it, just decent. So for PVE these changes are a good start, but TR needs more, namely a single decent PVE encounter other than blitz.
PVP is another story entirely. Sabotuer is going to be able to One-shot squishies without ever EVEN LEAVING STEALTH. Executioners with a daily up are pretty much going to one rotate ANYONE with ease. I said this before, and I'll say it again, rogue damage needs to be different in PVE and PVP. I would do this by disabling auto-crit in PVP only. If something isn't done about this, there is going to be hell to pay, mark my words.
In other news, if the WK paragon wasn't dead before, it most certainly is now. GC is the only useable at-will, and it's decent for PVE and crazygood for PVP. Which is mostly because it is the only at-will that doesn't drain stealth. Not that nerfing the crp out of GC would keep a rogue from shredding people in PVP, because it wouldn't. Meanwhile, every other at-will besides GC is nigh useless. I said before that the stealth drain should be changed from 15% to 5%. I'll change my stance on that to 2-3% max. Or better yet NO stealth drain for at-wills would go a long ways towards putting rogues where they need to be for PVE, meanwhile can we see a real solution to the issue of perma-stealth in PVP specifically?
I won't dismiss people who are bringing up the issue of rogue survivability. However, I don't think ITC should be the focus of this issue. For me personally, rogue has always been fun in that regard. PVE is so easy to the point of boredom. Epic shores was an eye opener in that I was actually dying and had to adapt. Still, adapt I did, and now I often tank the boss, when I can get aggro with M4 dps haha. I would welcome a 3rd dodge pip, not sure that I need it *shrug.
Final follow-up with Executioner
Setup was slightly different - some heroic feats reshuffled, so control was slightly altered (sorry; bad science, I know).
All testing done in IWD with 14k GS (well, 13.7k after re-feating: more damage, less HP) and lesser vorpal enchant.
Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel, Dazing Strike, Lashing Blade, Path of the Blade, Courage Breaker, Shocking Execution, First Strike, Skillful Infiltrator
Paragon Feats:
Feedback: Powers
Heh.
hehehehe.
Oh, I can hear the PvP nerf threads coming.
Off my opening combo (Stealth + First Strike + Lashing Blade), I pulled a 50k crit.
Initially I tried using Blitz, but after testing with PotB, I stuck with the latter as it did better DoT, meaning more reliable lifesteal and better survivability.
And for Shocking Execution. Well, the first time I used it, it did an underwhelming, yet improved 33k no crit. Later, when using it again, I scored...
<pause for effect>
...100k crit. That's not going to last too long
Feedback: Feats
Honestly, with the exception of Twisted Grin (saw no point; maybe it'll be better in a dungeon setting) and the other T1 feat, everything's pretty well stacked. My player suggestion, forego the last 5 points in Executioner and put them in Scoundrel T1 lifesteal. It's not much, but it'll help you stay alive even better.
My summary, Executioner is slightly OP, but very fun. It's surprisingly survivable, if you use the right powers.
Edit: PotB is still bad for large mobs. It doesn't do enough damage to steal health for damage from multiple sources. Keep it for burning bosses, though, but Blitz it'll have to be for taking out the trash.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I just tried this out in Icewind pass.. and it's really crazy. Path of the Blade, stealth and I used lashing blade if my stealth was about to run out. Put in Shadow Strike, full stealth bar, One With the Shadows go off (capstone) or you kill something with 5/5 Return to the Shadows, rinse and repeat. Stealth loss is minimal with Gloaming Cut and you actually gain stealth back with 5/5 Sneaky Stabber feat.. Downside is that everything just stands around with a ? over their heads waiting to be stabbed like a pinata...
Of course this was just solo play testing, not sure how this will fair in a dungeon or skirmish.
Shadow Strike
Lashing Blade
Path of the Blade
Gloaming Cut
Cloud of Steel
Skillful Infiltrator
Tenacious Concealment
5/5 Shady Preperations
5/5 Sneaky Stabber
5/5 Return to Shadows, 5/5 Gutterborn's Touch
5/5 Ambusher's Haste, 5/5 Shadowy Opportunity
One with the Shadows
I tried Arterial Cut from Executioner over Ambusher's Haste but without parsing and lower GS (11k), it felt like Ambusher's Haste was the winner. I feel as the Crit rating goes up, Ambusher's Haste will be much more felt, especially paired with a Vorpal enchant.
I Specced as Saboteur, for the first part of this I was just shy of 14k gs in full profound.
I took Knifes Edge, shadowy preperation, return to shadows, ambushers haste, shadowy opportunist, one with the shadows and arterial cut.
For most of the run , i used Wicked Reminder, lashing blade and shadow strike or Impossible to catch, At wills testd were Sly Flurish, Gloaming Cut and Cloud of Steel. I also Tested, Blitz and PAth of the blade at various times.
First Impressions
I enjoyed the over all playstyle resented by the new saboteur, i have always liked the pop in and out of stealth thing as a playstyle and i like the pver all feel of how this works. I ran Bigrins tomb, killed a number of Frost giants and attempted several levels of Heroic encounter.
For Bigrins Tome i used Lashing blade and, wicked reminder and at first ITC. However i found the new ITc did not give me the breathing room i wanted and went to shadow strike. This was one of the easiest runs of Bigrins tomb i have ever done.
Outside, i used Paath of the blade ITc and shadow strike and did a few giants and other things. My Path of the blade was doing 16-20k damage over its duration and with the double pulse for first half out of stealth the damage was amazing.
I then tried several heroic encounters, and more or less failed the miserably. I found the only real way i could succeed was.. well permastealth. If I used Path of the blade and gloaming cut and ran around in circles and did everything to not leave stealth i cuould win.
I tried doing HEroics with the same power combo that worked amazingly well in bigrins tomb and basically in any length of time if the NPC could se eme i got plastered. This is when i really noticed our inability to just roll out of the way.
Finally, Opinions on the powers individually, along with percived bugs
Wicked Reminder, i really liked how this worked out. Witht he pop in and out of stealth i could apply the biger debuff, i also found it useful to trigger powers that needed an encounter power to trigger them.
New LAshing Blade, Seems similar to before the new damage was nice but the cooldown was noticable as an ongoing issue.
NEw path of the blade.. I cant tell if this is simply Awesome or overpowered, nonetheless the high amount of damage was noticable. This is a big deal because i tried running Blitz over PotB and basically found that unless i am doing an aoe centric plan there is no reason to use blitz other than the slow.
Blitz, the new damage was nice but otherwise see above, i have always liked this power the hop back is useful etc but.. Potb is just soo.. much more
Gloaming Cut, This seemed actually a bit obscene i did several hits for 30-40 thousand while using it. basically if you have this At-will there is no reason to ever use DF or Sly Flourish.
Sly Flourish, I found the damag was actually okay with the auto crit while my stealth remained but as i said this contrasts starkly with gloaming cut. This is noticable as i have a Sly Flourish artifact weapon.
Impossible to catch, I basically found it useless as a get me breathing room power when i was at low hp. i quickly replaced it with shadow strike.
Over all i liked the feats for saboteur, but a few observations and a possible bug.
When doing stuff solo i found the 'attack from the rear' stuff difficult to use and doing so out of stealth nearly impossble. Witht he giant golf swing attacks some of the gints did i could do it a bit but then i quickly ran out of stamina.
I found the biggest thing i wanted was the ability to roll away from attacks and my inability to do so became evident quickly
Finally,
Bug
Some of the combination of feats i took ment that sometimes when i used an encounter power I did not leave stealth. this ment i could Wicked reminder a target /then/ lashing blade them without ever leaving stealth.
Anyhow i hope the above info is useful.. i wasnt sure how to do the colour coding so i hope this isnt hideous to look at.
Hi there
We need to see some re-work on STEALTH and ITC
1st) ITC, does not give the TR support anymore, seems like a dead encounter. If use during stealth then other encounters don't get the kick that they deserve. With ITC in current stage, the TR is very fragile now.
2nd) Stealth needs to be changed so that it regenerates during fights just like Unstoppable for the GWF. Maybe if we get hit or if we strike an enemy that we replenish out STEALTH slowly. It can diminish while stealth-ed as is.
I have tested the new feats on Preview in IWD and I understand the principle but my TR is going to be doing less damage now than before. We can use STEALTH and smash 1 encounter in and then pretty much have to kill the whole group of mobs to get our stealth back which makes the EXECUTIONER feats kinda Meh hence the need of STEALTH regeneration during battle while we use at wills or encounters. This is forcing the TR to run away and to use Shadow Strike 100% of the time which should not be intended. This really needs to be looked at.
New TR's will have problems grinding and leveling by the looks of it.
Are the Devs planning to allow Perma Stealth and 100% crit Gloming Cut? If they do, then it seems not too bad.
Also TR is hard to balabce in PvE and PvP. TR aimst o deal way more single target damage than all other classes, which means they will either be decent in PvP & terrible in PvE or overpower in PvP & decent in PvE.
TR still needs a higher damage buff. Double maybe, so they can top damage chart just with single target attacks.
However there need to be a 'class feature debuff' of dealing ~50% less damage on players.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
LB from stealth does ungodly damage. You can practically one-shot the Golems. DS synergises well with the executioner capstone even if used out of stealth. Stuff dies really quickly. And I basically ran with just two encounters (LB + SS) as I slotted VP but never used it (remains too clunky IMO). Adding in PoB or Blitz would have made the run even smoother.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The feat does not seem to have any effect.
My TR has 1747 Life Steal, which gives 11.6%. Attacking some bears in Icewind Dale the maximum life steal/maximum damage ratios were...
Feat not taken: 622/5352 = 0.1162...
Feat taken: 644/5541 = 0.1162...
[1] Stealth is our defensive tool, it should refills steady always. Or do Gwfs have to use "shadow-unstoppable" to tab again? Or does determination stop refilling while being attacked? Do CWs use shadow-tab-slot to use their 4th encounter? shadow-divinity-strike ?
[2] micro-dazes seems lag more than daze
[3] 100% critical chance is a trap. I cannot attack from stealth or land multiple encounters.
[4] duelist flurry is dead.
[5] maybe first strike has to be rework in something "aspect of the lone wolf" like. Who in the hell use first strike?
[6] we need way more movement speed and mobility
So the first encounter "activates" Shadowy Demise, and essentially all damage done in that window is lumped into a 50% proc at the end of the 6 seconds?
Because I tried a stealth lashing blade, hit a dummy for 55k and waited 6 seconds.
The Shadowy Demise proc at the end ticked the dummy for an additional 55k, displaying as two instances of ~27k in my combat log.
Is it double counting the "activating" encounter and the damage it does toward the 50% proc at the end of Shadowy Demise?
Several things need to be taken into consideration.
1) dazing strike takes too long to activate
2) Impossible to catch does not do anything worth while anymore
It seems we will do better just to stealth and gank people with high spike damage / shadow strike and wait for next victim.
The Duelist Flurry drain the stealth bar too fast, even with lurker assault active. My suggestion is to let the 15% stealth consume for the first 2 strike and remove for the other, so it will be usefull in pve
< Guild: Gravity X Game >
^^^^
This. So much this.
Also, about the ITC. It really needs to be reverted to its current state.
Just think about SoT skirmish. The bos scan EASILY do 80k damage on you. (WIth non stealth itc that's still 20k~ish (at least on me, rofl) We REALLY need that to survive (if we want to stay in the battle, of course. And not just flee away, and do some dancing in the background).
I know this is not very constructive but you all know that a TR has no defence other than the TAB, and with these changes a WK either attacks with less damaging at wills and dies, or stands around in stealth doing nothing. Perhaps it is just me – but what’s the point, you may as well just roll a melee HR and have a decent chance of not being dead, or perhaps a SW and have some mobility and mob killing power.
I’d be interested in hearing any other WK’s opinions – MI still have an at will to use, we don’t full stop, MI’s still have some use of stealth, we don’t full stop – So all these improvements to damage while in stealth just don’t happen because you are not in stealth long enough as a WK - that’s my opinion.
Pretty neato if you can land it. Could see it being pretty difficult in hectic pvp, but you might be able to wiggle through some people and proc 2 backstabs to get back into stealth very quickly.
Also follows up on close range impact shot where you can sneak in a backstab wicked for a free 50% stealth meter immediately after coming out of it. And of course going in and out of stealth constantly is refreshing cooldowns ALOT with Shady Prep.
More testing today, but at the moment I'm generally liking the changes.
I agree with other posters that we need more manoeuvrability. Also please remove the effect of damage stopping Stealth regen. This really is not necessary now that Perma stealth has gone and makes it very difficult to go in and out of stealth when so many of the newer mobs put DoTs on you.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Deft Strike as an attack from behind should works with feats:
T3
•Return to Shadows: While behind your target, dealing damage with Encounter Powers refills 10/20/30/40/50% of your Stealth Meter. This effect cannot trigger when leaving stealth.
•Gutterborn's Touch: While behind your target, dealing damage grants you Gutterborn for 6 seconds which causes you to ignore 2/4/6/8/10% more Armor on the target and increases your Power by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect does not stack.
Stealth drain:
Perhaps instead of the 15% flat reduction, the stealth drain should be tied to the damage and animation length.
Like: Stealth drain = At-Will_BaseDamage_modifier * (1 / Animation_length) * balancing_factor
In this way small fast attacks will drain little and slow heavy attacks will drain more, but, slow attacks like DF first and second will drain less than Sly because of their lower damage.
This way the At-Will choise will not be related to their stealth drain and more a tactical choice.
ITC:
Imo, in PvE using ITC from stealth is a huge waste of damage potential (could have used lashing instead for example), and mainly used to remain alive during DF lock or to stay near the target when dodging is not available or wasteful.
As such, perhaps, adding some damage resistance to non-invisible ITC will add to PvE TR survivability, and adding movment speed to invisible variation will add to the TR tactical play in PvP
in example:
Non invis ITC : 100% deflect chance (as live), +20% Damage resistance, +10% movement speed
Invis ITC: 100% deflect chance, +40% Damage resistance, +30% movement speed
"Gutterborn's Touch: While behind your target, dealing damage grants you Gutterborn for 6 seconds which causes you to ignore 2/4/6/8/10% more Armor on the target and increases your Power by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect does not stack."
I think PvP is to dynamic to look for someones behind to attack (except first hit from stealth perhaps or using deft strike) so it's not that useful.
And in PvE, If the Armor ignore is same as Armor Penteration, most TRs will have ArP capped so it wont help, and in addition many of the big mobs are not attack-from-behind friendly, the dragons have tail lashes and DF will pull under them or to the side and other like SP last boss for example don't have a clear "behind"
just my 2 AD
Feedback: CHARISMA
If you cant fix how charisma work (it should give 1% no 0.01%) just rework it in Armor ignored
Feedback: overall basic rework
[1] Stealth is our defensive tool, it should refills steady always. Or do Gwfs have to use "shadow-unstoppable" to tab again? Or does determination stop refilling while being attacked? Do CWs use shadow-tab-slot to use their 4th encounter? shadow-divinity-strike ?
[2] micro-dazes seems lag more than daze
[3] 100% critical chance is a trap. I cannot attack from stealth or land multiple encounters.
[4] duelist flurry is dead.
[5] maybe first strike has to be rework in something "aspect of the lone wolf" like. Who in the hell use first strike?
[6] we need way more movement speed and mobility
BUG: SABOTEUR - PATH OF THE BLADE.
PATH THE BLADE still doesnt procs effets and weapon enchantments like VORPAL and SABOTEUR SHADOW OPPORTUNITY and "ONE WITH THE SHADOWS".
In the executioner tree does not apply: "shadow of demise"
BUG: SHADOW OF DEMISE.
Procs on every source of damage instead of encounters only multiple times in a row.
FEEDBACK: SHADOW OF DEMISE
Let it continue to proc on every source of damage but fix the multiple procs. it should proc once every 6 sec.
Feedback: SABOTEUR - SHADOW STRIKE
Shadow strike should not be able to activate one with the shadows! IS NO SENSE
Shadow strike needs 2 seconds less cooldown to compensate a bit the at will madness
FeedbacK: SABOTEUR - SHADOW PREPARATIONS
That 10% cooldown reduction while entering in stealth is about 1 sec on a CD of 20 sec.....underwhelming
BUG: DUELIST FLURRY STEALTH CONSUMPTION
[1]I m not able to land a single duelist flurry without being out of stealth.
[2]Duelist flurry go against lurker assault deleting its effets. Basically a daily wasted
Feedback: First strike
TOO CHEESE while adding little to nothing to TR performance. It just allows to throw a 50k lashing blade in pvp.....toxic gameplay
I would like a passive to reduce cooldown and adding DR
Feedback: stealth
in addition to what i said in the last feedback/bug, stealth should have a natural way to refills steady. Once in combat there is no way to regain stealth without using utility encounters which invalidate the meaning of this rework.
A tab mechanics should not be usable just throught utility encounters. Make me go in stealth on regular basis without ruining my encounter bar.
Feedback: GLOAMING CUT REFILLING STEALTH - SABOTEUR
consider to just this in: every time you correctly hit your enemy with gloaming cut you gain a free dodge.
This would reward smart playing while giving a bit of stealth more throught twilight adept if feated and adding mobility
BUG: SWIFT FOOTWORK [heroic feat]
Does NOT work
stealth loss make this "rework" a plain nerf.
I think the best would be if stealth wouldn't decrease at all if activated and only decrease when i attack in addition flurry should only decrease the the stealth for the first two attacks (not for the 8 fast hits afterwards). Lurker Assault should have a small regeneration ratio if i am in stealth. It should be enough regeneration to compensate the first two attacks. In addition the % of decreasing the stealth meter if attack an enemy should be around 30%. Which means you are out of stealth after your 4th attack.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
In most games where combat breaks stealth, stealth is a toggle and does not drain over time if no attacks are made. Please consider this change. At the moment it is difficult to get into the correct position and still have enough stealth left to work with. This would not be such a big problem if the Rogue were not so slow and unmanoeuvrable.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Through further testing it seems that you can stack it onto multiple targets