beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2014
Some general feedback Sly Flourish is going to remain an at-will that there is little reason to use, particularly having lost the possibility of feating it to deal more damage.
Buffing VP won't make it useful if it continues to have wonky targetting. Hope this is also fixed.
Also hoping the TR animations are fixed.
You may want to re-evaluate your description for the Scoundrel path. Currently it reads "Scoundrel: A brawler who debuffs foes and can take a lot of damage." I will agree it is a brawler, but I don't really see any debuffs and as far as "take a lot of damage" it really only is "take a little more damage than a non scoundrel rogue".
Go into Stealth
- Activates Shadowborn: 100% increased Power (10k Power for me, or +60% damage)
Cast Whirlwind of Blades on say, 5 adds
- Does critical damage, 65% crit severity (not adding Perfect Vorpal)
- Power increases by 100% (that’s 10,000 Power for me, or another +60% damage), unless is doubles my 20k power to 40k power
- Activates Vicious Pursuit: +5% damage for 6 seconds
- Activates Twisted Grin: Next attack does 12.5% dmg (25% in stealth)
- Activates Shadow of Demise on something after 6 seconds (50% of damage I do)
Cast Path of Blades
- At 60% + 60% + 5% + 12.5% damage: 137.5% total damage
Cast Blitz
- At 60% + 5% damage: +65% total damage
Will have killed something at this time for sure
- Activates Twisted Grin: Next attack does 12.5% dmg (25% in stealth)
- Activates Shadow of Demise on something after 6 seconds (50% of damage I do)
Now it’s time for tough mob who probably has 40% life or less now
Go into Stealth (refreshed from using Whirlwind and the feat that refreshes stealth after daily)
- Activates Shadowborn: 100% increased Power (10k Power for me, or +60% damage)
- Activates Twisted Grin: Next attack does 12.5% dmg (25% in stealth)
- Activates Shadow of Demise on something after 6 seconds (50% of damage I do)
- Tough add effected by Last Moments: add 25% more damage to foes who are below 40% HP (70% in stealth)
Use Lashing Blade on tough add while stealthed
- Receives +60% damage from Shadowborn
- Receives +25% damage boost from Twisted Grin
- Receives +70% bonus from Last Moments
- Auto Crit; +65% increased severity
After 6 seconds takes 50% of what I just did as piercing damage
Seems like Scoundrel should receive a couple of tweaks to increase it's survability. Maybe increasing it's HP or damage resistance?
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dexy205Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited October 2014
Well i was having a blast in PVE. Since the artifact weapons and belts I don't care for PVP. PVE was fun all they had to do was a few tweaks for the PVE side of things but this! This is a whole new class! Stealth will not be an assassination tool but just empower an ability because it won't last long at all. They will be out stealthed; out dps'd and out tankedby a HR (which it already is). The duellist's flurry skill has now been removed from the game and you will be spamming daggers after daggers. Also what will happen to the PVP set bonus of extra stealth because that will be totally useless now!
I still maintain the TR is the most fun to played all the classes. Such a shame to change the only different playstyle and to make it the same boring style as every other class. Feeling pretty down now and hope mod 5 takes as long as possible to come out so I can make the most of the FUN TR!
[*]Shadowy Opportunity: When you deal damage from stealth you deal an additional 15/30/45/60/75% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores defenses.
[/LIST]
Feedback : (Overall Class)
I skimmed this on my lunch break, and love it so far, I'd just like some clarification on the below. and I'll have a detailed look once I am finished work
Have you thought of making it so the piercing damage is 75% (and 40% for HR) of the Damage that was actually applied after reductions? instead of the premitigated damage? because as it currently is it essentially makes high defence and deflect pointless and instead makes stacking hp the only way to fight against it.
Edit :I read on page 3 that piercing is a % of actual damage dealt, not the pre mitigated damage. Is this going to be how HR damage works now also? or is it only for TR's. If its changing piercing for both classes, I agree with this much more, however still feel that 75% (and 50% in executioner) is quite high.
Can I also just ask you if there have been any plans to buff or rework some of the lesser used and considered "useless" enchantments, I posted up a balance suggestion thread some time ago and I'm more than happy to dig up what I had in it.
.
Saboteur: if PotB don't make stealth go out like at wills and has a 20 sec duration, so semi-perma now has a huge buff here.
Just think: "Shadowy Opportunity: When you deal damage from stealth you deal an additional 15/30/45/60/75% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores defenses." PotB all the time up, you just need to run around and deal 500~600 extra piercing damage while you refill your stealth bar with gloaming cut(or just use BaS in place of ITC), and see, now gloaming cut can deal a huge damage. If things got wrong just use ITC/VP and SS to refill your bar... when safe start again. Daily bloodbath while stealth... if this doesn't work i'll run from this tree, because it looks like extremely dependent of deft strike for me...
Scoundrel: 45~50% deflection chance... +10% with 30% hp... +10% entering stealth for 10 sec... now you can daze for 1 second, plus a 2~4 sec daze each 20 sec... But you still can't hit your target because (omg!) he's running... more than you... So basically this build can daze a HR for a second or two and die because your deflection is being ignored by glyphs and piercing... so... worst tree maybe? You can maybe use ITC/VP defensively, use one ranged at will hit while stealthed(dazed target), then a lashing blade from stealth, now Impact shot, Impact shot, again... if your luck your target is dead, if not 5 sec has passed and you can daze again... maybe you can use PotB or Blitz to try something... while you are not dazing targets you can steal some life...
Executioner: Perfect vorpal, First Strike, Lashing Blade from stealth, etc... 6 seconds after(if that guy was a god tanker), 50% more damage in one shot... if you killed the first guy and started to hit the second... with lucky 6 seconds after both are dead... now you die or run with SS+ITC/VP... Glass cannon for me... and one thought about it: if you miss your LB, or a HR/TR deflected it, or someone just dodged... my friend... so i think that this build will be more like cw's... if you got that target he's dead, if somehow he escaped you are in trouble... A lot of potential in this tree... but i'm afraid of what can happen...
This feat is Piercing Damage because it should not be subject to damage resistance *twice*.
It looks for damage you actually deal to the target (after armor penetration and resistance have done their thing). If this feat *wasn't* piercing damage it would get resisted again and be very difficult to balance (because it would disproportionately increase the value of Arpen for executioner rogues).
Lets try and keep the conversation civil, and avoid the borderline dev bashing, okay?
Ok, if I'm gettint this right... if it's not done as Piercing Damage then my DR and Deflect would resist this thing twice, but if it is Piercing Damage then it's going to work right?, so if I stack a lot of DR and Deflect I'm getting less Damage even if it is "Piercing Damage"?, I'm asking to be sure...
If the "Piercing Damage" is actually making the damage of this encounter work right you shouldn't say it have Piercing Damage, you're going to confuse people...
Ok, if I'm gettint this right... if it's not done as Piercing Damage then my DR and Deflect would resist this thing twice, but if it is Piercing Damage then it's going to work right?, so if I stack a lot of DR and Deflect I'm getting less Damage even if it is "Piercing Damage"?, I'm asking to be sure...
Yes... If you resist(with 70% resistance) a hit of 10k damage to 3k damage, so you'll take just 1,5k damage after 6 seconds, not 5k...
I'll reserve specific comments until I've tried all of the trees in testing. However, from a first glance I'm both excited, as well as a bit worried.
...
In my case my prime concern with the TRs was always with the defensive capabilities of the TR - or rather lack of it besides stealth and ITC, which have essentially forced the TR into a basic combat form of perma/semiperma in the past, as well as limiting the options even more for Whisperknives which lack ITC or any comparable form of defense.
Relatively speaking, NW has very low recharge times for CCs, whilst having very limited ways to prevent it, and in turn overal damage inflicted between players are very high. Aside from rare cases (such as the freakish durable mod2 GWFs or current high-deflect/self-heal/5-dodge HRs), kills are made fast, and often the side which lands a well-timed CC usually landslides to victory from that point on. TRs have neither CCs to use for offense, nor defense against such CCs and its following attack chains (except ITC) -- hence the reliance on stealth for both offense and defense.
In this sense, first, I wholeheartedly welcome the changes to stealth and ITC.
But at the same time, I am truly worried that most of the changes are centered around increase in offense and damage.
For example, if I go Scoundrel, and then I choose to attack a CW... I still don't have any real slow effects to use. Like I've mentioned numerous times, without significant speed buffs and slows, a dazed target can simply move in one direction and all of my melee attacks will simply miss. You spend all your time chasing after the guy moving and the CC duration is already over, so the CW retaliates... then what? What if I'm a Whisperknife? Will the extra defenses provided by the Scoundrel path (more deflect and lifesteal) be enough to help me survive the CC onslaught, and give me time enough to catch up to the CW and inflict more CCs?
Maybe, maybe not.
If the Saboteuer and the Scoundrel path can really "slip in and out of stealth at will" and "deflect-CC" well enough to help TRs survive the onslaught of enemy CCs and damage even while out of stealth (the Executioner seems plenty adequate as a classic "glass-cannon"), then these changes will mean something good.
Otherwise, it's a death sentence unless we provide enough feedback that the TR needs more defense while out of stealth.
(ps) ZOMG... where'd my Action Rush go???
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Feedback: Powers • Smoke bomb: please give the smoke a daze or DoT since we sacrifice a damaging power in PVE for it.
• ITC: This power doesn't last long and has a long cool down, I feel like this change wasn't necessary. This is my favorite power. Since we only have 2 dodges it's great to be able to use it in times when your stamina is empty which happens a lot in eLoL. I use this power so much and will still have to doge most likely even while using ITC.
• Path of the Blade: Hmmm, we've already had a damage reduction on this power and I don't see why it needs another. I'll take the increased duration though. As someone else noted, it would be nice for this power to reflect our weapon enchantment. All the other power changes seem really cool.
Feedback: Executioner Those 2 T4 feats seem really cool but please don't take away the DF feat, that is our main at will. We now don't have any feats to buff our at wills like other classes have. I wouldn't mind losing some of this damage for it. We need the deadly momentum.
Saying this without any tests or anything, just my initial impression which could change. In it's essence, it's definitely an improvement so I thank you devs for the work that went into this. I'd suggest everyone else to follow the format he provided to make it more likely for him to read it and take it under consideration. Changes seem really interesting so far so lets work together to make the TR the best it can be.
What I'd like to see: More dodges, or make stamina recover faster, we should be a mobile class, currently we're one of the slowest classes, our at wills and encounters are slow and easy to dodge, also most of our encounters have high cooldown. More dodges, powers with faster activation and/or powers that don't nail us to the ground for so long.
I feel Vengeance's pursuit is still useless, the damage doesn't look like it's worth it and I don't see any changes done to the targeting.
Just a quick question, in the OP you mention stuns as well as dazes. But I don't see any stuns added in the feats/powers. Daze is a bit useless for us as they enemy just walks away while dazed avoiding our follow up attacks.
What I'd like to see: More dodges, or make stamina recover faster, we should be a mobile class, currently we're one of the slowest classes, our at wills and encounters are slow and easy to dodge, also most of our encounters have high cooldown. More dodges, powers with faster activation and/or powers that don't nail us to the ground for so long.
I feel Vengeance's pursuit is still useless, the damage doesn't look like it's worth it and I don't see any changes done to the targeting.
Just a quick question, in the OP you mention stuns as well as dazes. But I don't see any stuns added in the feats/powers. Daze is a bit useless for us as they enemy just walks away while dazed avoiding our follow up attacks.
pretty much this. we need more mobility to keep up with the dodge potential of other classes as well as faster at-wills so a dazed target can't just walk away from our attacks.
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traxsuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 51
edited October 2014
I'd add a mechanic to the tab based on what you're specced into executioner, etc.
If you're going to be nerfing stealth then additional mechanics need to be added similar to how a 'tab' power works for the Control Wizards.
For example a deft strike stealth mechanic would be slightly useful for mobility.
What I'd like to see: More dodges, or make stamina recover faster, we should be a mobile class, currently we're one of the slowest classes, our at wills and encounters are slow and easy to dodge, also most of our encounters have high cooldown. More dodges, powers with faster activation and/or powers that don't nail us to the ground for so long.
I feel Vengeance's pursuit is still useless, the damage doesn't look like it's worth it and I don't see any changes done to the targeting.
Oh, but rei... just looking at the Scoundrel feats instantly gave me inspiration for new combos...
Yes.. Wicked Reminder is now has 3 charges.. in PvP it's usually low damage, around 4~5k on crits.. but with Skullcracker and Lowblows, that's a combined buff of +50% damage, and another baseline +10% damage increase. So a VP-WR combo now works, with each hit of WR (if it crits) doing around 6k+ damage for all 3 consecutive hits, dealing maybe around 15k~18k damage with an end result of 21% defense debuff since it now correctly stacks.
I don't think things are that bad for Scoundrel tree -- depending on how people adapt to it. Lot of possibilities here, but I do see some redundant stuff.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Bug: ITC and TR Animations
• Smoke bomb: please give the smoke a daze or DoT since we sacrifice a damaging power in PVE for it.
• ITC: This power doesn't last long and has a long cool down, I feel like this change wasn't necessary. This is my favorite power. Since we only have 2 dodges it's great to be able to use it in times when your stamina is empty which happens a lot in eLoL. I use this power so much and will still have to doge most likely even while using ITC.
I agree with these. In Shores also, boss can hit for 80k+.. DR will not help. Only stamina or current ITC.
I look forward to testing builds on preview, seems like many viable paths, especially once everything (in PVP) respects deflect. My one suggestion though is to re-examine Charisma's Combat Advantage bonus (and draconic set, and pet bonus etc.. any % CA bonus). Charisma currently is a really inefficient stat, I feel like an idiot having 20 of it. If the bonus was additive, rather than multiplicative, you would open up new builds, and people would pay much more attention to position on a battlefield.
Greetings Adventurers!
We haven’t really been happy with the position the Rogue has been in for quite a while now, so we wanted to take a long hard look at their mechanics and adjust some of them to make a more rewarding experience and create some distinct play styles. To that end we have made a lot of power tweaks, adjusted Stealth, and created 3 brand new feat trees.
Overview
Before we talk about the other changes, let’s talk about the big one. Perma-stealth is going to get much harder to play. We don’t really like the gameplay of “invisible attacker dealing steady damage” because the cases for counterplay are limited and require more skill to fight against than we feel is appropriate. Therefore we made two major changes to stealth. Firstly it will drain a little bit when you attack from stealth. To compensate for this you will get 100% critical chance while stealthed. We want stealth in Neverwinter to move towards a quick burst in power that rewards smart play to confuse foes, rather than an effect you can keep up indefinitely.
Now, Feat Trees. Rogue feat trees were fairly disjointed before, with mostly lackluster capstones. Given that we tore them out and rebuilt them with unique goals in mind. Saboteur will be focused on rebuilding stealth and striking foes from behind. Scoundrel will have access to controls and stuns (including a powerful daze that can lock a foe down) while being a very durable fighter. Executioner is focused on using a golden opportunity to deal an incredible amount of spike damage.
Without further ado, let’s look at the changes.
Powers
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack.
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage.
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank).
Whirlwind of Blades: No longer ignores Damage Resistance and Immunity and can be Deflected.
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%).
Courage Breaker: Now increases power by 25% (up from 10%).
Courage Breaker: Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Deft Strike: Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity.
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%.
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5).
Path of the Blade: Duration increased to 20 seconds (up from 10).
Path of the Blade: Damage reduced by roughly 20%.
Path of the Blade: Tooltip now displays the total damage this power will deal, rather than how much it deals each tick.
Impact Shot: Base Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Shadow Strike: Stealth: Daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 3).
Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks on players.
Wicked Reminder: Maximum stacks reduced to 3.
Wicked Reminder: Now reduces the target's defenses by 7% per stack (up from 4%).
Wicked Reminder: Now has 3 charges and 1 charge is refilled every 5 seconds.
Wicked Reminder: Damage increased by roughly 10%.
Paragon Paths
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Now lasts 15 seconds (up from 7.5).
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Damage reduced by roughly 10%.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Now correctly breaks CC on the teleport.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Initial damage increased by roughly 20%.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Follow up damage increased by 50%.
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Tooltip now lists the total damage this power does, instead of the damage the initial throw will do.
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Combat Advantage time increased to 6 seconds base (up from 3).
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Damage increased by roughly 50%.
WhisperKnife: Razor Action: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 100%. The Damage over Time component tied to Seething Knives now only triggers when the player has points in Seething Knives.
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Does not drain Stealth Meter when used from Stealth.
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Now deals up to 25% more damage as the target's HP diminishes (up from 20%). This effect is increased by 25% per rank (up from 5%).
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%. OH NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHRIS NO!!!!!!!
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: No longer ignores Damage Immunity effects. It still ignores all sources of damage resistance and cannot be deflected.
I am very upset about the proposed change to impossible to catch.
Change the name from impossible to catch and call it Borrowed GF Defense.
While you are at it... go ahead and rip out the skill page from my D&D that explains impossible to catch.
If you did all the changes and left impossible to catch alone I would be happy.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Wow... Scoundrel got the short end of the stick. Feedback: Scoundrel We got plenty of deflect, true, and a couple microdazes (barely worth it - if they were microstuns, then we'd be talking), but the armor debuff is gone and the general damage boosts are gone.
We'll be able to facetank, though, which could be nice, but being unable to kill it fast will mean we end up getting killed.
We could very easily sacrifice 1 or 2 of the conditional deflects (say, survivor or mocking gesture) to bring back something akin to catspaw style and wicked knave. This would make scoundrel more versatile as both a CC and debuff tree (as intended).
Lastly, while I never really used ITC while stealthed, it made an excellent facetank ability for burning bosses as TR (still) cannot dodge to save its life, but I do have to wonder how the MI ITC scoundrel feat will change.
I'm still going to run some tests, but these seem to be the problems (summary) - daze instead of stun, no debuff, no damage buffs, and wth happened to ITC?
Executioner will be amazingly OP. Might end up switching
Saboteur could be pretty OP, too. Definitely looks fun, but not my style of play.
Feedback: General Dodge hasn't been dealt with - it's slow. by the time the dodge animation has begun, the damage has already been dealt. Also, unless you're WK, it takes you too far out of combat to be useful.
Casting times and animations are still an issue. I love me some dazing strike, but when the attack (from what should be the fastest class) takes long enough to be hit and disrupted mid-cast, then we have a problem. When it happens for multiple powers, we have a big problem.
Walking away. I'm no PvPer, but I feel the frustration of having to line up a chained attack only to have the enemy walk away before its climax, negating it. This doesn't happen for other classes. I know HR's Aimed Strike will just adjust the aim as the target walks and won't miss unless dodged. So, why not so for TR, who is supposed to be nimble, skilled, and master of placing carefully aimed strikes?
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited October 2014
I used my impossible to catch from stealth to revive team-members in pve during very tough times (granting me immunity while i revived)
I do not like the suggested change to impossible to catch at all.
Also Impossible to catch was the only way I could attempt to escape a warlock (with crazy movement speed + glyphs), and or other classes that were totally OP.
I understand that some people have a base resistance of 41% damage reduction on their characters + 50% = 91% damage reduction
Leave Impossible to catch at 100% damage immune please.
It almost seems like you are trying to force us to go back to the 1 hitter quitter style playing of TR.
That is not fun at all.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Picking up from my last post, scoundrels are dirty fighters, not in-your-face brawlers. All the deflect and life steal stacking is nice, but unnecessary. Ideally, we should be avoiding damage by stacking effects.
I would love to see scoundrel having a smorgasbord including dazes, microstuns, prones, and DR debuffs
That is what embodies a scoundrel. If I wanted drunken master, I'd be playing a different game.
Feedback: Scoundrel path
It seems some of the Scoundrel feats overlap each other in effect, hence simply lackluster.
Particularly speaking, Concussive Strikes overlaps Skullcracker in its effect under certain cirucmstances. What if you open up with a CC power like Dazing Strike from the rear? SC will take into effect, but then the effects of CS are simply overriden -- becoming a wasted feat. For that matter, SC as well, also overlaps and loses its efficiency if your choice is to open up with a CC power. Dazing Strike already dazes for like 4 or 5 seconds... hence Skullcracker effect is only limited to additional damage buff, while the rest of the traits offered are simply lost
Also, what happens if you open up with a non-damage encounter like Smoke Bomb or BnS?
This is my suggestion:
add an additional feature to Skullcracker, so that if the trigger power is a daze-inducing power itself, then the effect is changed from
"base 2s daze + 0.5s /per attack (x4 times)", into a "base 2s SLOW + 0.5s /per attack (x4 times)" -- in other words, if SC trigger power is a dazing power itself, the SC effect is replaced from a daze to a slow, in order to prevent it losing efficiency, and the inflicted target will be both dazed AND slowed at the same time
let SC take effect with non-damagin encounter powers such as BnS and Smokebomb. In case of BnS, if the enemy player is "tricked", that will be considered an offensive action/attack, and hence proc the
"base 2s daze + 0.5s /per attack (x4 times)" effect. In case of Smokebomb, normal Smokebomb will respect what's laid out above -- SC daze changed into slow. In case of stealthed Smokebomb, no extra concessions to avoid the overlapping of slows would be necessary
I would recommend Concussive Strikes be changed into a defensive feat, as the 1s daze would be very situational and not benefit the TR very much. Specifically, I request it be changed into a feat that either adds you extra damage resistance when attacked while CCd, or a very sneaky feat that gives you a chance to
instantly break effect of CC when hit by the first incoming attack. Maybe you could call it 'Escape Artist' or something, with 3/6/9/12/15% chance to break CC effect with first incoming attack after being CCd.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
so enjoy this is what i waiting since age so it s going to be long.
Feedback:
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack.
First of all: how does this interact with lurker assault???
We were asking for more alternative ways to stealth for survivability. Now we have an useless tab, six at will (not even 1 duelist) and we are out of stealth with no way to refill it if not slotting encounters which make of no use no one of the new feats.
Even slotting those 1 knife every now and than and we are screwed for no other survivabilities tools but a 12% more deflect under 30% HP.....WOW.
In addition with this:
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage.
I mean: 6 at will and im out of stealth.....1 encounter and i m out of stealth......100% critcal sounds good but i would prefer a better version of eye of the storm.
SWIFTFOOT: BUGGED.
However 2 dodges with these changes.....worrying.
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%.
Talking again about survivabilities....i mean come on.
No real daily damage dealer. But hey without deleted saboteur feat it will be impossible to build one . I would still like the choice (they crit 100% in stealth after all) if they consume 25%-50% of the AP bar.
Cooldowns too high! and virtually higher if we consider you deleted dazzling blades. That 10% reduction while entering stealth is of no use (other classes flat 30% no matter what)
SCOUNDRELConcussive Strikes: Your Critical Strikes and attacks from behind damage daze foes for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second. Foes can only be dazed this way once every 5 seconds.
If the 3 seconds daze of shadow strike is barely notificable in pvp what that 1 sec is supposed to be? european lag?
Reading these changes all i can image is dazing strike + lashing blade --> dead TR.
it's not something i dont like but i do think that the survivabilities refill tools like shadow strike/itc should have a way lower CD or you should add something to class feature in order to give that survivability (like aspect of the lone wolf).
A reduced CD on lashing blade is missed would be perfect too.
Damage wise i like all the changes.
Now some of the considerations (someone are bugs, others just things i would like too see implemented) to share about TR (old feats can be named, even tho not existing in the future build)
1) Charima: actually gives only 0.1% more combat advantage damage not 1% like stated on the tooltip. FIX.
2) Scoundrel: all the feats there just dont work. Path Broken. EXAMPLES OF NOT WORKING FEATS: underhanded tactics, nimble blade, mocking knave.
3) We get no free armor pen by stats like every other classes but CWs (they control after all). Look at it.
4) We are too squishy and we need some survivability tools like the new HR ( wild medicine, aspect of the lone wolf ).
5) Our damaging encounter is only lashing blade (with a too high CD, not that high damage and easy to miss) : increase damage, reduce cd and put a flat 5 sec if missed.
6) path of the blade should not be single target. Path of the blade does not proc any weapon enchantments effects.
8) ITC sometimes does not work for the first second.
9) a general reworks to feats in order to be more damaging ( gwfs, CW, HR have all well defined flat damage increasing by feats ). Our path capstones all suck except for Overrun critical.
11) increase shocking execution damage. We have not hard hitting single target dailies. REMOVE WHIRLING BLADE TARGET CAP.
12) TRs can be hard targetted in stealth with some command line bound on the keyboard or mouse.
13) increase our base HP pool.
14) shadow strike sometime bugs without refilling stealth bar but goes on cooldown.
15) clowd of steel back to 12 charges.
18) Discipline of strenght is PROBABLY bugged and not working.
19) Swift footwork is not working.
Hoping in your answer.
note: some numbers here in the list have been deleted because fixed with your changes
One major change that would me let reconsider this would be:
NOW STEALTH REFILLS STEADY UPON DEALING DAMAGE OUT OF STEALTH.
TRs are now allowed to enter stealth with 50% bar full
[*]Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%.
There are other classe which have complete damage immunity, too, by feats or abilities (GWF steel defense comes to mind or HR fox shift). Keep in mind that TR are a melee class and are often class cannons, so it might be hard for them to do their job, especially in PvE. A game running under the D&D banner should be about PvE in the first place. Classes in D&D just aren't balanced, and this is fine, so don't bother too much with the few PvP nerds.
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage.
Powers:
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%).
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity.
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%.
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5).
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank).
Invisible Infiltrator: After using a daily power, refills your Stealth meter and grants a 15% damage bonus for 5 seconds.
Feats:
Arterial Cut: You have 3/6/9/12/15% increased Critical Severity while Stealthed.
Grim Pleasure: Your Critical Strikes increase your Power by 1/2/3/4/5% for 4 seconds.
Vicious Pursuit: Foes you damage take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage from you for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Twisted Grin: When a foe within 30' of you dies you gain Twisted Grin for 10 seconds which improves the damage of your next attack by 2.5/5/7.5/10/12.5%. This bonus is doubled while in stealth.
Last Moments: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are below 40% HP. This threshhold is increased to 70% while you are stealthed.
Shadowborn: Entering Stealth grants you 20/40/60/80/100% increased power for your next attack.
On a Half-Orc TR with 9k power, 3.5k crit, 2.5k armpen, 3k recovery (Swash gear bonus included) - easily obtainable with R7s, Lesser Bonding stones, and all the boons out there...
Passive benefits:
Weapon Mastery = 3% extra crit. chance
Disciple of Strength = 6% extra damage from Str
Flurry Dragon Arti-Wep = 10% extra damage on Flurry
Perf. Vorp = 50% crit. sev.
--- even without Critical Teamwork you're still at 45% crit. chance and 70% crit. sev. at this point
--- sure, losing Underhanded Tactics from Scoundrel (CA 20% more effective) hurts, but it pales in comparrison to the gains
Semi-passive benefits:
Half-orc = +5% damage on crit.
Action Advantage = 10% extra AP for dealt CA damage
Endless Assault = 6% extra damage on encounters
Cunning Ambusher = 6% extra damage after leaving Stealth
Let me get this straight... dungeon wise:
By critting multiple targets with one daily/encounter, do I get Grim Pleasure times the number of targets I crit?
If yes... enter stealth, you have plenty of time to get in the middle of the crowd and hit Whirlwind which will benefit from:
- 100% crit. chance + CA damage
- Half-orc = +5% damage on crit.
- Arterial Cut: 15% crit. sev.
- Twisted Grin: since there are bound to be trash mobs which would be obliterated before you actually got to shoot your Whirlwind, have some extra damage for 10s... I'm curious... do you get 12.5%/25% PER dead mob?! there are places where you fight 5-10 of those along with stronger ones, so if that's how it is, and you're smack down in the middle of them before you get to hit, your Whirlwind gets 125%-250% extra damage because of stealth!
- Shadowborn: double power on next attack
- Perf. Vorp: 50% crit. sev.
- First strike: 99% extra damage!
(This was a 10-15k damage per target hit for me, it now looks like it's gonna double that easily. How's that for a starting move?)
Aaanyway, at this point stealth is back at full, and enemies are below 70% because I'm in a group = I get bossts from them as well, and they do damage along with me, which leads me to believe things around me are actualy already almost dead. First strike is gone, Shadowborn is gone because I remained in Stealth, but I still have:
- double the power because I just hit 5 targets with a devastating Whirlwind
- 100% crit. chance + CA damage
- Half-orc: +5% damage on crit.
- Arterial Cut: 15% crit. sev.
- Invisible Infiltrator: 15% damage bonus for 5s
- Grim Pleasure: if my Whirlwind hit 5 targets previously, is this now at 25% Power for 4s?!
- Vicious Pursuit: 5% extra damage on the previously hit targets, for 6s
- Twisted Grin: 2-4 mobs are bound to get killed by party, so add another 50%-100% damage to next hit, because you're still in Stealth...
- Last Moments: no one will be over 70% after the first attack from each team member, so get another 25% damage bonus
- Perf. Vorp: 50% crit. sev.
At this point, you're about 5s into the encounter, everything's below 70% HP, and you have 4s to make your next move to benefit from all of the above
So:
- if you're facing mobs, you can blitz them to hell (7 targets, sure crits, 20% extra damage from the generous boost + everything mentioned above)
- if you're facing one big *cough*, you have a Lashing Blade which, in addition to everything mentioned above, gets (another generous boost) 50% crit. sev.
(I didn't input any values to calculate damage output, but I'm thinking at least 200k on the LB... 300k with good debuffs in party... 500k when 15+ players are hitting one dragon... you get the point)
Dungeon encounters are done within seconds. You don't even need the at wills... well, you do to gain AP, but that's beside the point. :P
Also, you folks are whining for losing 15% crit. sev. from Deadly Momentum? It gets replace with the same amount during stealth, and you can use Gloaming Cut to maintain that Stealth along with all its bonuses... you'll definitely kill stuff with it... And for crying out loud! What do you mean no survivirability?! At level 60 you should have at least 1k life steal; add the heals a Tempt can now provide, which are based on YOUR HUGE damage output, a few pots and dodges here and there, and you're not going below 50% HP!
Comments
Sly Flourish is going to remain an at-will that there is little reason to use, particularly having lost the possibility of feating it to deal more damage.
Buffing VP won't make it useful if it continues to have wonky targetting. Hope this is also fixed.
Also hoping the TR animations are fixed.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Say I hit 5 adds, so add 100% power. How long does that last?
Run up to adds
Go into Stealth
- Activates Shadowborn: 100% increased Power (10k Power for me, or +60% damage)
Cast Whirlwind of Blades on say, 5 adds
- Does critical damage, 65% crit severity (not adding Perfect Vorpal)
- Power increases by 100% (that’s 10,000 Power for me, or another +60% damage), unless is doubles my 20k power to 40k power
- Activates Vicious Pursuit: +5% damage for 6 seconds
- Activates Twisted Grin: Next attack does 12.5% dmg (25% in stealth)
- Activates Shadow of Demise on something after 6 seconds (50% of damage I do)
Cast Path of Blades
- At 60% + 60% + 5% + 12.5% damage: 137.5% total damage
Cast Blitz
- At 60% + 5% damage: +65% total damage
Will have killed something at this time for sure
- Activates Twisted Grin: Next attack does 12.5% dmg (25% in stealth)
- Activates Shadow of Demise on something after 6 seconds (50% of damage I do)
Now it’s time for tough mob who probably has 40% life or less now
Go into Stealth (refreshed from using Whirlwind and the feat that refreshes stealth after daily)
- Activates Shadowborn: 100% increased Power (10k Power for me, or +60% damage)
- Activates Twisted Grin: Next attack does 12.5% dmg (25% in stealth)
- Activates Shadow of Demise on something after 6 seconds (50% of damage I do)
- Tough add effected by Last Moments: add 25% more damage to foes who are below 40% HP (70% in stealth)
Use Lashing Blade on tough add while stealthed
- Receives +60% damage from Shadowborn
- Receives +25% damage boost from Twisted Grin
- Receives +70% bonus from Last Moments
- Auto Crit; +65% increased severity
After 6 seconds takes 50% of what I just did as piercing damage
So... should be pretty nice.
I still maintain the TR is the most fun to played all the classes. Such a shame to change the only different playstyle and to make it the same boring style as every other class. Feeling pretty down now and hope mod 5 takes as long as possible to come out so I can make the most of the FUN TR!
Feedback : (Overall Class)
I skimmed this on my lunch break, and love it so far, I'd just like some clarification on the below. and I'll have a detailed look once I am finished work
Have you thought of making it so the piercing damage is 75% (and 40% for HR) of the Damage that was actually applied after reductions? instead of the premitigated damage? because as it currently is it essentially makes high defence and deflect pointless and instead makes stacking hp the only way to fight against it.
Edit :I read on page 3 that piercing is a % of actual damage dealt, not the pre mitigated damage. Is this going to be how HR damage works now also? or is it only for TR's. If its changing piercing for both classes, I agree with this much more, however still feel that 75% (and 50% in executioner) is quite high.
Can I also just ask you if there have been any plans to buff or rework some of the lesser used and considered "useless" enchantments, I posted up a balance suggestion thread some time ago and I'm more than happy to dig up what I had in it.
.
Just my 2 cents.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Saboteur: if PotB don't make stealth go out like at wills and has a 20 sec duration, so semi-perma now has a huge buff here.
Just think: "Shadowy Opportunity: When you deal damage from stealth you deal an additional 15/30/45/60/75% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores defenses." PotB all the time up, you just need to run around and deal 500~600 extra piercing damage while you refill your stealth bar with gloaming cut(or just use BaS in place of ITC), and see, now gloaming cut can deal a huge damage. If things got wrong just use ITC/VP and SS to refill your bar... when safe start again. Daily bloodbath while stealth... if this doesn't work i'll run from this tree, because it looks like extremely dependent of deft strike for me...
Scoundrel: 45~50% deflection chance... +10% with 30% hp... +10% entering stealth for 10 sec... now you can daze for 1 second, plus a 2~4 sec daze each 20 sec... But you still can't hit your target because (omg!) he's running... more than you... So basically this build can daze a HR for a second or two and die because your deflection is being ignored by glyphs and piercing... so... worst tree maybe? You can maybe use ITC/VP defensively, use one ranged at will hit while stealthed(dazed target), then a lashing blade from stealth, now Impact shot, Impact shot, again... if your luck your target is dead, if not 5 sec has passed and you can daze again... maybe you can use PotB or Blitz to try something... while you are not dazing targets you can steal some life...
Executioner: Perfect vorpal, First Strike, Lashing Blade from stealth, etc... 6 seconds after(if that guy was a god tanker), 50% more damage in one shot... if you killed the first guy and started to hit the second... with lucky 6 seconds after both are dead... now you die or run with SS+ITC/VP... Glass cannon for me... and one thought about it: if you miss your LB, or a HR/TR deflected it, or someone just dodged... my friend... so i think that this build will be more like cw's... if you got that target he's dead, if somehow he escaped you are in trouble... A lot of potential in this tree... but i'm afraid of what can happen...
Ok, if I'm gettint this right... if it's not done as Piercing Damage then my DR and Deflect would resist this thing twice, but if it is Piercing Damage then it's going to work right?, so if I stack a lot of DR and Deflect I'm getting less Damage even if it is "Piercing Damage"?, I'm asking to be sure...
If the "Piercing Damage" is actually making the damage of this encounter work right you shouldn't say it have Piercing Damage, you're going to confuse people...
I think it was somewhere around 10 seconds for the power buff.
Yes... If you resist(with 70% resistance) a hit of 10k damage to 3k damage, so you'll take just 1,5k damage after 6 seconds, not 5k...
Adding onto that, if it wasn't piercing damage then instead of 1.5k damage you would receive 900 damage (the 3k received damage got resisted again).
...
In my case my prime concern with the TRs was always with the defensive capabilities of the TR - or rather lack of it besides stealth and ITC, which have essentially forced the TR into a basic combat form of perma/semiperma in the past, as well as limiting the options even more for Whisperknives which lack ITC or any comparable form of defense.
Relatively speaking, NW has very low recharge times for CCs, whilst having very limited ways to prevent it, and in turn overal damage inflicted between players are very high. Aside from rare cases (such as the freakish durable mod2 GWFs or current high-deflect/self-heal/5-dodge HRs), kills are made fast, and often the side which lands a well-timed CC usually landslides to victory from that point on. TRs have neither CCs to use for offense, nor defense against such CCs and its following attack chains (except ITC) -- hence the reliance on stealth for both offense and defense.
In this sense, first, I wholeheartedly welcome the changes to stealth and ITC.
But at the same time, I am truly worried that most of the changes are centered around increase in offense and damage.
For example, if I go Scoundrel, and then I choose to attack a CW... I still don't have any real slow effects to use. Like I've mentioned numerous times, without significant speed buffs and slows, a dazed target can simply move in one direction and all of my melee attacks will simply miss. You spend all your time chasing after the guy moving and the CC duration is already over, so the CW retaliates... then what? What if I'm a Whisperknife? Will the extra defenses provided by the Scoundrel path (more deflect and lifesteal) be enough to help me survive the CC onslaught, and give me time enough to catch up to the CW and inflict more CCs?
Maybe, maybe not.
If the Saboteuer and the Scoundrel path can really "slip in and out of stealth at will" and "deflect-CC" well enough to help TRs survive the onslaught of enemy CCs and damage even while out of stealth (the Executioner seems plenty adequate as a classic "glass-cannon"), then these changes will mean something good.
Otherwise, it's a death sentence unless we provide enough feedback that the TR needs more defense while out of stealth.
(ps) ZOMG... where'd my Action Rush go???
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
• When getting hit at the same time of using ITC it doesn't work and goes on cool down
• Also please fix the TR animations: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?711171-Trickster-Rogue-walking-animation-is-bugged&highlight=walk My TR dunks her head! And she looks injured when she stops walking. My DC is more nimble
Feedback: Powers
• Smoke bomb: please give the smoke a daze or DoT since we sacrifice a damaging power in PVE for it.
• ITC: This power doesn't last long and has a long cool down, I feel like this change wasn't necessary. This is my favorite power. Since we only have 2 dodges it's great to be able to use it in times when your stamina is empty which happens a lot in eLoL. I use this power so much and will still have to doge most likely even while using ITC.
• Path of the Blade: Hmmm, we've already had a damage reduction on this power and I don't see why it needs another. I'll take the increased duration though. As someone else noted, it would be nice for this power to reflect our weapon enchantment. All the other power changes seem really cool.
Feedback: Executioner
Those 2 T4 feats seem really cool but please don't take away the DF feat, that is our main at will. We now don't have any feats to buff our at wills like other classes have. I wouldn't mind losing some of this damage for it. We need the deadly momentum.
Saying this without any tests or anything, just my initial impression which could change. In it's essence, it's definitely an improvement so I thank you devs for the work that went into this. I'd suggest everyone else to follow the format he provided to make it more likely for him to read it and take it under consideration. Changes seem really interesting so far so lets work together to make the TR the best it can be.
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
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More dodges, or make stamina recover faster, we should be a mobile class, currently we're one of the slowest classes, our at wills and encounters are slow and easy to dodge, also most of our encounters have high cooldown. More dodges, powers with faster activation and/or powers that don't nail us to the ground for so long.
I feel Vengeance's pursuit is still useless, the damage doesn't look like it's worth it and I don't see any changes done to the targeting.
pretty much this. we need more mobility to keep up with the dodge potential of other classes as well as faster at-wills so a dazed target can't just walk away from our attacks.
If you're going to be nerfing stealth then additional mechanics need to be added similar to how a 'tab' power works for the Control Wizards.
For example a deft strike stealth mechanic would be slightly useful for mobility.
Oh, but rei... just looking at the Scoundrel feats instantly gave me inspiration for new combos...
Check this out:
Skull Cracker Buff ON → stealth → CoS strikes → proc Concussive Strikes, daze(1s) → VP(throw), proc Skull Cracker daze(2s) → VP(teleport) (+0.5s) → Wicked Reminder (+0.5s) → Wicked Reminder (+0.5s) → Wicked Reminder (+0.5s) → Shadow Strike and escape
Yes.. Wicked Reminder is now has 3 charges.. in PvP it's usually low damage, around 4~5k on crits.. but with Skullcracker and Lowblows, that's a combined buff of +50% damage, and another baseline +10% damage increase. So a VP-WR combo now works, with each hit of WR (if it crits) doing around 6k+ damage for all 3 consecutive hits, dealing maybe around 15k~18k damage with an end result of 21% defense debuff since it now correctly stacks.
I don't think things are that bad for Scoundrel tree -- depending on how people adapt to it. Lot of possibilities here, but I do see some redundant stuff.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
can the duration of this buff be increased to 6 sec? we can easily lose all of the stacks just for dodging or having to chase an opponent.
I agree with these. In Shores also, boss can hit for 80k+.. DR will not help. Only stamina or current ITC.
I look forward to testing builds on preview, seems like many viable paths, especially once everything (in PVP) respects deflect. My one suggestion though is to re-examine Charisma's Combat Advantage bonus (and draconic set, and pet bonus etc.. any % CA bonus). Charisma currently is a really inefficient stat, I feel like an idiot having 20 of it. If the bonus was additive, rather than multiplicative, you would open up new builds, and people would pay much more attention to position on a battlefield.
I am very upset about the proposed change to impossible to catch.
Change the name from impossible to catch and call it Borrowed GF Defense.
While you are at it... go ahead and rip out the skill page from my D&D that explains impossible to catch.
If you did all the changes and left impossible to catch alone I would be happy.
Feedback: Scoundrel
We got plenty of deflect, true, and a couple microdazes (barely worth it - if they were microstuns, then we'd be talking), but the armor debuff is gone and the general damage boosts are gone.
We'll be able to facetank, though, which could be nice, but being unable to kill it fast will mean we end up getting killed.
We could very easily sacrifice 1 or 2 of the conditional deflects (say, survivor or mocking gesture) to bring back something akin to catspaw style and wicked knave. This would make scoundrel more versatile as both a CC and debuff tree (as intended).
Lastly, while I never really used ITC while stealthed, it made an excellent facetank ability for burning bosses as TR (still) cannot dodge to save its life, but I do have to wonder how the MI ITC scoundrel feat will change.
I'm still going to run some tests, but these seem to be the problems (summary) - daze instead of stun, no debuff, no damage buffs, and wth happened to ITC?
Executioner will be amazingly OP. Might end up switching
Saboteur could be pretty OP, too. Definitely looks fun, but not my style of play.
Feedback: General
Dodge hasn't been dealt with - it's slow. by the time the dodge animation has begun, the damage has already been dealt. Also, unless you're WK, it takes you too far out of combat to be useful.
Casting times and animations are still an issue. I love me some dazing strike, but when the attack (from what should be the fastest class) takes long enough to be hit and disrupted mid-cast, then we have a problem. When it happens for multiple powers, we have a big problem.
Walking away. I'm no PvPer, but I feel the frustration of having to line up a chained attack only to have the enemy walk away before its climax, negating it. This doesn't happen for other classes. I know HR's Aimed Strike will just adjust the aim as the target walks and won't miss unless dodged. So, why not so for TR, who is supposed to be nimble, skilled, and master of placing carefully aimed strikes?
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I do not like the suggested change to impossible to catch at all.
Also Impossible to catch was the only way I could attempt to escape a warlock (with crazy movement speed + glyphs), and or other classes that were totally OP.
I understand that some people have a base resistance of 41% damage reduction on their characters + 50% = 91% damage reduction
Leave Impossible to catch at 100% damage immune please.
It almost seems like you are trying to force us to go back to the 1 hitter quitter style playing of TR.
That is not fun at all.
I would love to see scoundrel having a smorgasbord including dazes, microstuns, prones, and DR debuffs
That is what embodies a scoundrel. If I wanted drunken master, I'd be playing a different game.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
It seems some of the Scoundrel feats overlap each other in effect, hence simply lackluster.
Particularly speaking, Concussive Strikes overlaps Skullcracker in its effect under certain cirucmstances. What if you open up with a CC power like Dazing Strike from the rear? SC will take into effect, but then the effects of CS are simply overriden -- becoming a wasted feat. For that matter, SC as well, also overlaps and loses its efficiency if your choice is to open up with a CC power. Dazing Strike already dazes for like 4 or 5 seconds... hence Skullcracker effect is only limited to additional damage buff, while the rest of the traits offered are simply lost
Also, what happens if you open up with a non-damage encounter like Smoke Bomb or BnS?
This is my suggestion:
add an additional feature to Skullcracker, so that if the trigger power is a daze-inducing power itself, then the effect is changed from
"base 2s daze + 0.5s /per attack (x4 times)", into a "base 2s SLOW + 0.5s /per attack (x4 times)" -- in other words, if SC trigger power is a dazing power itself, the SC effect is replaced from a daze to a slow, in order to prevent it losing efficiency, and the inflicted target will be both dazed AND slowed at the same timelet SC take effect with non-damagin encounter powers such as BnS and Smokebomb. In case of BnS, if the enemy player is "tricked", that will be considered an offensive action/attack, and hence proc the
"base 2s daze + 0.5s /per attack (x4 times)" effect. In case of Smokebomb, normal Smokebomb will respect what's laid out above -- SC daze changed into slow. In case of stealthed Smokebomb, no extra concessions to avoid the overlapping of slows would be necessaryI would recommend Concussive Strikes be changed into a defensive feat, as the 1s daze would be very situational and not benefit the TR very much. Specifically, I request it be changed into a feat that either adds you extra damage resistance when attacked while CCd, or a very sneaky feat that gives you a chance to
instantly break effect of CC when hit by the first incoming attack. Maybe you could call it 'Escape Artist' or something, with 3/6/9/12/15% chance to break CC effect with first incoming attack after being CCd.If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Feedback:
First of all: how does this interact with lurker assault???
We were asking for more alternative ways to stealth for survivability. Now we have an useless tab, six at will (not even 1 duelist) and we are out of stealth with no way to refill it if not slotting encounters which make of no use no one of the new feats.
Even slotting those 1 knife every now and than and we are screwed for no other survivabilities tools but a 12% more deflect under 30% HP.....WOW.
In addition with this: I mean: 6 at will and im out of stealth.....1 encounter and i m out of stealth......100% critcal sounds good but i would prefer a better version of eye of the storm.
However 2 dodges with these changes.....worrying.
Talking again about survivabilities....i mean come on.
If the 3 seconds daze of shadow strike is barely notificable in pvp what that 1 sec is supposed to be? european lag?
Reading these changes all i can image is dazing strike + lashing blade --> dead TR.
it's not something i dont like but i do think that the survivabilities refill tools like shadow strike/itc should have a way lower CD or you should add something to class feature in order to give that survivability (like aspect of the lone wolf).
A reduced CD on lashing blade is missed would be perfect too.
Damage wise i like all the changes.
Now some of the considerations (someone are bugs, others just things i would like too see implemented) to share about TR (old feats can be named, even tho not existing in the future build)
1) Charima: actually gives only 0.1% more combat advantage damage not 1% like stated on the tooltip. FIX.
2) Scoundrel: all the feats there just dont work. Path Broken. EXAMPLES OF NOT WORKING FEATS: underhanded tactics, nimble blade, mocking knave.
3) We get no free armor pen by stats like every other classes but CWs (they control after all). Look at it.
4) We are too squishy and we need some survivability tools like the new HR ( wild medicine, aspect of the lone wolf ).
5) Our damaging encounter is only lashing blade (with a too high CD, not that high damage and easy to miss) : increase damage, reduce cd and put a flat 5 sec if missed.
6) path of the blade should not be single target. Path of the blade does not proc any weapon enchantments effects.
8) ITC sometimes does not work for the first second.
9) a general reworks to feats in order to be more damaging ( gwfs, CW, HR have all well defined flat damage increasing by feats ). Our path capstones all suck except for Overrun critical.
11) increase shocking execution damage. We have not hard hitting single target dailies. REMOVE WHIRLING BLADE TARGET CAP.
12) TRs can be hard targetted in stealth with some command line bound on the keyboard or mouse.
13) increase our base HP pool.
14) shadow strike sometime bugs without refilling stealth bar but goes on cooldown.
15) clowd of steel back to 12 charges.
18) Discipline of strenght is PROBABLY bugged and not working.
19) Swift footwork is not working.
Hoping in your answer.
note: some numbers here in the list have been deleted because fixed with your changes
One major change that would me let reconsider this would be:
NOW STEALTH REFILLS STEADY UPON DEALING DAMAGE OUT OF STEALTH.
TRs are now allowed to enter stealth with 50% bar full
There are other classe which have complete damage immunity, too, by feats or abilities (GWF steel defense comes to mind or HR fox shift). Keep in mind that TR are a melee class and are often class cannons, so it might be hard for them to do their job, especially in PvE. A game running under the D&D banner should be about PvE in the first place. Classes in D&D just aren't balanced, and this is fine, so don't bother too much with the few PvP nerds.
Powers:
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%).
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity.
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%.
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5).
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank).
Invisible Infiltrator: After using a daily power, refills your Stealth meter and grants a 15% damage bonus for 5 seconds.
Feats:
Arterial Cut: You have 3/6/9/12/15% increased Critical Severity while Stealthed.
Grim Pleasure: Your Critical Strikes increase your Power by 1/2/3/4/5% for 4 seconds.
Vicious Pursuit: Foes you damage take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage from you for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Twisted Grin: When a foe within 30' of you dies you gain Twisted Grin for 10 seconds which improves the damage of your next attack by 2.5/5/7.5/10/12.5%. This bonus is doubled while in stealth.
Last Moments: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are below 40% HP. This threshhold is increased to 70% while you are stealthed.
Shadowborn: Entering Stealth grants you 20/40/60/80/100% increased power for your next attack.
On a Half-Orc TR with 9k power, 3.5k crit, 2.5k armpen, 3k recovery (Swash gear bonus included) - easily obtainable with R7s, Lesser Bonding stones, and all the boons out there...
Passive benefits:
Weapon Mastery = 3% extra crit. chance
Disciple of Strength = 6% extra damage from Str
Flurry Dragon Arti-Wep = 10% extra damage on Flurry
Perf. Vorp = 50% crit. sev.
--- even without Critical Teamwork you're still at 45% crit. chance and 70% crit. sev. at this point
--- sure, losing Underhanded Tactics from Scoundrel (CA 20% more effective) hurts, but it pales in comparrison to the gains
Semi-passive benefits:
Half-orc = +5% damage on crit.
Action Advantage = 10% extra AP for dealt CA damage
Endless Assault = 6% extra damage on encounters
Cunning Ambusher = 6% extra damage after leaving Stealth
Let me get this straight... dungeon wise:
By critting multiple targets with one daily/encounter, do I get Grim Pleasure times the number of targets I crit?
If yes... enter stealth, you have plenty of time to get in the middle of the crowd and hit Whirlwind which will benefit from:
- 100% crit. chance + CA damage
- Half-orc = +5% damage on crit.
- Arterial Cut: 15% crit. sev.
- Twisted Grin: since there are bound to be trash mobs which would be obliterated before you actually got to shoot your Whirlwind, have some extra damage for 10s... I'm curious... do you get 12.5%/25% PER dead mob?! there are places where you fight 5-10 of those along with stronger ones, so if that's how it is, and you're smack down in the middle of them before you get to hit, your Whirlwind gets 125%-250% extra damage because of stealth!
- Shadowborn: double power on next attack
- Perf. Vorp: 50% crit. sev.
- First strike: 99% extra damage!
(This was a 10-15k damage per target hit for me, it now looks like it's gonna double that easily. How's that for a starting move?)
Aaanyway, at this point stealth is back at full, and enemies are below 70% because I'm in a group = I get bossts from them as well, and they do damage along with me, which leads me to believe things around me are actualy already almost dead. First strike is gone, Shadowborn is gone because I remained in Stealth, but I still have:
- double the power because I just hit 5 targets with a devastating Whirlwind
- 100% crit. chance + CA damage
- Half-orc: +5% damage on crit.
- Arterial Cut: 15% crit. sev.
- Invisible Infiltrator: 15% damage bonus for 5s
- Grim Pleasure: if my Whirlwind hit 5 targets previously, is this now at 25% Power for 4s?!
- Vicious Pursuit: 5% extra damage on the previously hit targets, for 6s
- Twisted Grin: 2-4 mobs are bound to get killed by party, so add another 50%-100% damage to next hit, because you're still in Stealth...
- Last Moments: no one will be over 70% after the first attack from each team member, so get another 25% damage bonus
- Perf. Vorp: 50% crit. sev.
At this point, you're about 5s into the encounter, everything's below 70% HP, and you have 4s to make your next move to benefit from all of the above
So:
- if you're facing mobs, you can blitz them to hell (7 targets, sure crits, 20% extra damage from the generous boost + everything mentioned above)
- if you're facing one big *cough*, you have a Lashing Blade which, in addition to everything mentioned above, gets (another generous boost) 50% crit. sev.
(I didn't input any values to calculate damage output, but I'm thinking at least 200k on the LB... 300k with good debuffs in party... 500k when 15+ players are hitting one dragon... you get the point)
Dungeon encounters are done within seconds. You don't even need the at wills... well, you do to gain AP, but that's beside the point. :P
Also, you folks are whining for losing 15% crit. sev. from Deadly Momentum? It gets replace with the same amount during stealth, and you can use Gloaming Cut to maintain that Stealth along with all its bonuses... you'll definitely kill stuff with it... And for crying out loud! What do you mean no survivirability?! At level 60 you should have at least 1k life steal; add the heals a Tempt can now provide, which are based on YOUR HUGE damage output, a few pots and dodges here and there, and you're not going below 50% HP!
There are my other 2 cents...