Stealth being drained by at-wills needs to go. I mean stealth disappears after 3 clouds of steel and two Disheartening Strikes... it's very irritatin/unplayable. I'm not even gonna talk about Duelist's Flurry. If this stealth mechanic stays, nobody will use that powers, it drains stealth faster than any other at-will.
Please revert back to the old Disheartening Strike, the new one does LESS damage and the "Longer last" isn't even noticeable (Current DiSH does 12-13K and the one on preview does 9.7K...The only way where DiSH does more damage is when you launch it from stealth (Does ~13K)... but with this new stealth mechanic.. it's a no go.
Thank you for buffing VP and Hateful Knives, both do 15-16K now which is awesome.
Please reduce VP's cooldown by a fair amount. Make it a 4 sec cooldown, no cooldown (Like module 2) or make it have 3 charges. The last option seems appropriate.
Well – I play a WK pretty much 80 to 90% PVE – and I think from what I read that this just became unviable. The only real way I had success in dealing with mobs was to use Disheartening Strike and stay in stealth – now this seems redundant upon two points. It does less damage and takes longer to do it, while it also knocks you out of stealth. Once out of stealth and taking damage you have no chance of getting back in without an encounter,(and what’s the point of going back into stealth when you can’t actually hit anything?) I think this will equal a dead TR to any kind of mob in PVE – basically my feeling lean towards the post already made that states we are not really worried about losing stealth as long as you give us another way to survive – I don’t see anything here that does this. I just see the WK losing any control over mobs in a PVE situation – PVP who really cares? I am sure the BIS guys will love going around killing with a single blow due the large amount of single damage increase these changes will provide, but for PVE TR’s I personally see no real survival mechanism
Hopefully I am completely wrong
Have a fun game all
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
FEEDBACK:Please revert back to the old Disheartening Strike, the new one does LESS damage and the "Longer last" isn't even noticeable (Current DiSH does 12-13K and the one on preview does 9.7K...The only way where DiSH does more damage is when you launch it from stealth (Does ~13K)... but with this new stealth mechanic.. it's a no go.
So they're lying about the changes? 10% less damage but double the duration should mean more in the long run. Sounds like Nightmare Wizardry all over again.
Feedback: I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I've been using deft strike and lashing blade from stealth and it's been fully draining my stealth meter (without using an at-will). From my understanding, it's the at-will's that drain the stealth meter. This is specc'd as Saboteur.
If this is intentional, then it completely kills stealth.
sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
edited October 2014
uhm, so i bought THAT STUPID ARTIFACT WEAPON, that buffs up duelist flurry, only to find out if i use duelist flurry in stealth, i cant stay in stealth?that you cryptic for turning a class that relies on stealth to SURVIVE for you to take it away from us, now dealing damage is out of the question, (oh cool you brought back 1 hit ko lashing blade) so to be a rogue that is good i have to use lashing from now on
Feedback: I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I've been using deft strike and lashing blade from stealth and it's been fully draining my stealth meter (without using an at-will). From my understanding, it's the at-will's that drain the stealth meter. This is specc'd as Saboteur.
If this is intentional, then it completely kills stealth.
Umm... encounters break stealth instantly (except the 2 that refill it). Always have.
Feedback: I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I've been using deft strike and lashing blade from stealth and it's been fully draining my stealth meter (without using an at-will). From my understanding, it's the at-will's that drain the stealth meter. This is specc'd as Saboteur.
If this is intentional, then it completely kills stealth.
Bug: Stealth Tooltip
It reads "At-Will powers do not spend Stealth"
Encounters have always consumed stealth, except for shadow strike and bait and switch. What should be new is at-wills draining stealth. Dailies should still not affect stealth in any way. I'm interested to see how Lurker's interacts with at-wills. Going to check out preview in a second, will post my detailed feedback in a couple of days.
So far however, my first thoughts on at-wills draining stealth is meh. Cloud of steel, sly flourish, these abilities are now completely usesless in PVE and PVP. Which leaves gloaming cut, flurry, Disheartening strike. Gloaming is getting some significant boosts in both PVP and PVE. DIS is getting a pretty significant nerf in PVE, In PVP it might still be pretty good if you take the auto-crit from stealth and feat buffs into consideration. Flurry is still going to be top dog in PVE, but now your going to be using it always out of stealth when your stealth is consumed and encounters are on CD. For PVP I can only see flurry being used at the end of stealth followed by ITC and SS to cover your butt. Which means it's going to have to be used a lot less.
Umm... encounters break stealth instantly (except the 2 that refill it). Always have.
Hmm ok, it's been months since I touched my TR. I didn't remember that happening at all.
Edit: So on a second thought, what are we exactly supposed to do in stealth. We can't even finish a full round of DF and we can only get off one encounter. That pretty much takes everything out of this class and leaves it really lackluster. What really makes this class any different from a combat HR now?
What I'm wondering in the meantime: With at-wills draining stealth will this mean that you can't complete a single full Duelist Flourish from stealth anymore?
That is correct. You can not finish a full rotation of DF any more.
yep I'm not able to finish even 1 DF without getting out of stealth. ( I don't have the equipment set bonus that gives more stealth though, just the feat.)
Also, someone was asking before, it looks like at wills only drain stealth when doing damage. so you should be able to make the first 2 hits of DF to the air and connec the flurry.
So, just did a quick spin on preview. In order to achieve what I was hoping for from scoundrel, I went a hybrid build (I know it's not a pure build for neutral control testing, but bear with me): Scoundrel:
Roll with the Punches
Press the Advantage
Concussive Strikes
Low Blows
Skullcracker
Executioner:
Arterial Cut
Vicious Pursuit
I was using Lashing Blade, Wicked Reminder, Impossible to Catch, Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel, First Strike, Skillful Infiltrator, Whirlwind of Blades, and Courage Breaker
Testing was done in Neverdeath ToD area and Icewind Pass
Feedback: Feats Overall, I got the feel I was wanting from scoundrel - decent survivability/low stealth, disrupts, and armour debuffs.
Unfortunately, I didn't really notice the disrupts. Concussive Strikes and Skullcracker proc for such a short time that I never gained any survivability from dazes (I purposefully ran without Dazing Strike for this reason).
My suggestion so far - either make CS & SC proc stuns or increase the durations
Feedback: Powers I was very pleased at the amount of damage done.
Stealth + First Strike + Lashing Blade pulled a 40k crit (and I only have a lesser vorpal). The same setup with Whirlwind of Blades cleared an entire 5-man ToD mob.
So, from a PvE side of things, damage was excellent. I can only speculate, however, at the amount of grief said damage is going to cause in PvP.
Additionally, I really enjoyed the rework for Wicked Reminder. 3 charges allowed me to apply stacks quickly outside of stealth and allowed me to reserve stealth for setting up Lashing Blade hits.
Feedback: Scoundrel Since I didn't go full scoundrel, I can't comment completely on its gameplay, but I can say this: the hybrid playstyle I just tested is what I was hoping pure scoundrel would be (except Arterial cut; I just needed to get that for Vicious Pursuit). I think it'd be possible to remove one of the extraneous deflect buffs and replace it with a debuff.
sn0wt0ri0usMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
edited October 2014
I dont understand how the 100% crit chance in stealth is going to help with anything but our encounters, HR's and Gwf's now have the highest crit chance, my rogue loses 5% without crit teamwork, down to 45% my gwf gets 50% crit chance, i cant play pve and pvp anymore i need to choose my build for one or the other, and we dont get a full respec, only feats, stealth is useless for pve, Path of blades is amazing. itc is meh, our main dps is our at wills in stealth, and then our at will coupled with really high crit chance, we lose the stealth, and we lost alot of crit chance, tell me what good came out of that, aside from the vitriol from using the one hit lashing blade, yay, now we rogues have to deal with that from other players.
Hmm ok, it's been months since I touched my TR. I didn't remember that happening at all.
Edit: So on a second thought, what are we exactly supposed to do in stealth. We can't even finish a full round of DF and we can only get off one encounter. That pretty much takes everything out of this class and leaves it really lackluster. What really makes this class any different from a combat HR now?
The idea is to use stealth as a tactical/positioning tool, with at-wills as supplementary attacks, and then strike strong and hard and mix-it-up a bit while out of stealth, and then return to it --- instead of the "I do all of my attacks from stealth, so I can land streams of damage without ever being seen".
I like this new approach. It should always have been this way.
What I'm not sure of, is that the new changes have not added in enough defensive qualities for the class to actually survive and fight out of stealth Testing in the preview servers should prove whether this is so, or not.
If not, then we simply relay the fact to the developers, and ask for proper measures to be taken so that the TR has enough defensives to play out combat the way the developers intended it.
...instead of throw this godda*ned tantrum and mass hysteria upon their hard work, the friggin bunch of crybabies...
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You should really really test the changes out to TR if you think they're bad. I've done some initial testing on my TR. executioner has some yummy burst potential. I'd like to see feedback from some pros on that tree though. But sabetuer.....mymymy.....it is fabulous. Sometimes words just don't do a tree a justice.
FEEDBACK
I am a 18.5k TR with 10K Power, 3k Crit, 2.5k AP, 2. Recovery.
I have a Legendary Weapon (Duelist Furry one) that adds 10% damage to all DF attacks.
I ran multiple tests with dungeons and dummies.
Overall the damage is nice, but the survivability needs to be boosted with either more CC or better dodging. I would suggest putting ITC back where it made you immune, or reduce the cool-down of ITC now, as well as smoke bomb.
Damage wise, it's better to slot Gloaming Cut (and use the feat that adds 10% stealth with each hit) and continually attack with Gloaming Cut, than it is to use my Legendary Duelist Fury weapon. Again... I had better damage in the same time just standing there in stealth using Gloaming Cut than I did using Duelist Furry continually. That should NOT happen with a Legendary DF weapon.
You need to change the mechanics of Duelist Furry now, as it's no longer viable with the way Stealth works, as well as ITC. ITC giving that short immunity was what made DF work. You could stealth, go up to big add and spam DF, and when he did his AOE attack, you could just hit ITC... that no longer works. Not only do I no longer have stealth to increase damage from DF, but I no longer have a defense while in DF. DF becomes POINTLESS!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
FEEDBACK Overall the damage is nice, but the survivability needs to be boosted with either more CC or better dodging. I would suggest putting ITC back where it made you immune, or reduce the cool-down of ITC now, as well as smoke bomb.
Enough about ITC for the love of god. We need survivability beyond stealth and this encounter WKs DON'T even get.
After reading the coming changes for TR this are my feedback/suggestions
Powers
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack. -ok
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage. -CWs dont even need to crit to kill a TR
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank). -good
Whirlwind of Blades: No longer ignores Damage Resistance and Immunity and can be Deflected. -reasonable
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%). -good
Courage Breaker: Now increases power by 25% (up from 10%). -good
Courage Breaker: Damage increased by roughly 15%. -good
Deft Strike: Damage increased by roughly 15%. -damage buff is good but this encounter also need CD reduction
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity. -reasonable because you can only get that cs while stealth
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%. -amazing
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5). -finally the only AOE encounter of a TR gets a buff
Path of the Blade: Duration increased to 20 seconds (up from 10). -I'm not impressed with this change i suggest put a bleeding effect that stacks
Path of the Blade: Damage reduced by roughly 20%. -this is double nerf to PotB be careful you are about to destoy this encounter
Path of the Blade: Tooltip now displays the total damage this power will deal, rather than how much it deals each tick.
Impact Shot: Base Damage increased by roughly 15%. -thank you for this
Shadow Strike: Stealth: Daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 3). -how about stun? other class have KD and stun please give us one
Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks on players. -good
Wicked Reminder: Maximum stacks reduced to 3. -hmmm.....how about longer duration?
Wicked Reminder: Now reduces the target's defenses by 7% per stack (up from 4%). -good
Wicked Reminder: Now has 3 charges and 1 charge is refilled every 5 seconds. -make the animation faster and this will be useful
Wicked Reminder: Damage increased by roughly 10%. -not bad
Paragon Paths
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Now lasts 15 seconds (up from 7.5). -this is a huge nerf WK should be a damage oriented type of TR
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Damage reduced by roughly 10%. -reasonable if the DoT is faster feels like an ant sting rather than a scorpion sting
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Now correctly breaks CC on the teleport. -in addition a increase in the duration is needed
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Initial damage increased by roughly 20%. -thank you for this encounter really need this
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Follow up damage increased by 50%. -again thank you may I suggest the activation will be shorter
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Tooltip now lists the total damage this power does, instead of the damage the initial throw will do.
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Combat Advantage time increased to 6 seconds base (up from 3). -good
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Damage increased by roughly 50%. -thanks this daily needs it badly single target daily should hit hard and fast compared to AOEs
WhisperKnife: Razor Action: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 100%. The Damage over Time component tied to Seething Knives now only triggers when the player has points in Seething Knives. -I think even if you double the damage it wont be as much as appealing compared to other passives. It needs more improvement so it can provide better playstyle
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Does not drain Stealth Meter when used from Stealth. -good
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Now deals up to 25% more damage as the target's HP diminishes (up from 20%). This effect is increased by 25% per rank (up from 5%). -your a genius this At-will will make TRs desirable in dungeons
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%. -TRs arent so tough like GWFs/GF so it needs to be agile and fast in order to survive I suggest increase its duration if you will nerf it to 50% DR
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: No longer ignores Damage Immunity effects. It still ignores all sources of damage resistance and cannot be deflected. -animation is very slow
The idea is to use stealth as a tactical/positioning tool, with at-wills as supplementary attacks, and then strike strong and hard and mix-it-up a bit while out of stealth, and then return to it --- instead of the "I do all of my attacks from stealth, so I can land streams of damage without ever being seen".
Thanks. I haven't played TR since early Spring, being my first toon and had forgotten the ways of the TR.
That being said, I found it difficult (while solo'ing) to run as saboteur. Stealth gets eaten away so fast with at-wills or loosing it with encounters, most of the time when I am able to go back into stealth, none of my encounters are ready. Then of course I can't get off a full rotation of DF at all in stealth, which means the stealth is greatly wasted. Granted my TR isn't very geared at all, 11k GS with 1,400 recovery. IF that is the case, then saboteur will have to be very gear dependent to play.
I found it easier as executioner just being able to put out pure DPS. I wait to enter stealth when my encounters are about to come up. With this case, I use Dazing Strike, Lashing Blade and Shadow Strike.
I tried the saboteur tree and I used Path of the blade then stealth and gloaming cut all enemies and battles were over pretty fast (I tested it on random encounters in Dwarven valley) Didn't really use much else, I also had slotted ITC and Dazing strike.
Also I feel like the executioner tree will bring a lot of complaints in pvp. It's hard to make it do good damage in PVE and not cheesy damage in PVP
Note that on Live, these scaling enemies are quite weak against any reasonably geared and skilled level 60. The corresponding lairs or IWD would offer a better testing ground.
I agree. I was just running with what was challenging to my 14k TR, while also having changed my power rotation slightly.
I won't lie, I got my butt handed to me a few times, but that's what preview's for.
(Am I the only one that isn't sure about what is and what isn't sarcasm in this feedback thread? )
Feedback:
(PVP) I did some testing and so far the path that I've found more "comfortable" is Scoundrel. It lacks both Saboteur and Executioner good damage feats but still feels overall better. Want to know why? Because it's miserable deflection and dazes (life steal doesn't even feel) gives it a little better survability than the others. And I agree that's what the path should do but please buff it, life steal in the feats is too little to notice and dazes are somewhat nice but could do better.
(PVE) Hadn't been able to test it that well in pve, just solo content. And god, First strike + stealth + Blitz is sooo goooood. On the other hand, with Lashing Blade at first I was like "OMG BIG ORANGE NUMBERS ARE AWESOME"... but then, you can't rely on it, it isn't sustained damage and fails too much to hit hard. Duelist's Flurry needs a buff or a rework, makes you lose stealth too fast and without it there are many feats that lose effect. It's an awesome ability that doesn't deserve to be turned into trash.
Saboteur: Sustained DPS focused on being able to reactivate stealth quickly to land hits for increased critical bonus.
T1
Flashing Blades: Your At Will attacks deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage while your stealth meter isn't full. -I would rather exchange that 5% for faster At-Will execution (DF and GC)
Shady Preperations: Entering Stealth reduces all your cooldowns by 2/4/6/8/10%. -TRs got long cooldowns 10% is like an ant on a hill it should be 50% why? stealth meter have long refill time and getting hit and hitting reduces the meter so its reasonable.
T2
Knife's Edge: Activating a Daily reduces all of your cooldowns by 3/6/9/12/15%. -I think this is useless because TR have slow action points gain compared to other class. I suggest change this to something more useful like 30% chance to delfect for 10 secs after leaving stealth or being able to enter stealth even with half stealth meter because all experienced TR knows that a visible TR is 70% likely to be killed in combat.
T3
Return to Shadows: While behind your target, dealing damage with Encounter Powers refills 10/20/30/40/50% of your Stealth Meter. This effect cannot trigger when leaving stealth. -put increase movement speed
Gutterborn's Touch: While behind your target, dealing damage grants you Gutterborn for 6 seconds which causes you to ignore 2/4/6/8/10% more Armor on the target and increases your Power by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect does not stack. -good
T4
Ambusher's Haste: While Stealthed you gain a damage bonus of 5/10/15/20/25%. This bonus dimishes as your stealth meter drains out. -nice
Shadowy Opportunity: When you deal damage from stealth you deal an additional 15/30/45/60/75% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores defenses. -good
T5
One with the Shadows: Every 20 seconds you gain "One with the Shadows". While you are affected by "One with the Shadows" the next time you deal damage with an Encounter Power you instantly refill your Stealth Meter and gain a 20% damage buff to Stealth Encounter Powers for 10 seconds. -good
Scoundrel: A brawler who debuffs foes and can take a lot of damage.
T1
Roll with the Punches: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Deflect Chance. -lol!2.5%? HRs will laugh at this! I suggest 10% chance is reasonable
Bloody Brawler: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Lifesteal. -HRs will just laugh and say Devs loves us more! lol!
T2
Survivor: When your HP is below 30% you gain 2/4/6/8/10% increased deflect chance. -who wants to wait for 30% hp before they can benefit from a 10% deflect chance? A CW will burst a TR down in a blink of an eye and that 10% isnt that useful. Change this to something useful like 50% chance to recieve 70% less damage when below 40% hp I would like o remind you that TRs doesnt have big hp pools.
T3
Savage Blows: Dealing damage to foes increases your Lifesteal by .2/.4/.6/.6/1% for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. - how about just plain 5% Lifesteal no need to wait for 5 stacks or 15% Lifesteal for at 5 stacks.
Concussive Strikes: Your Critical Strikes and attacks from behind damage daze foes for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second. Foes can only be dazed this way once every 5 seconds. -TR got smoke bomb and dazing strike so here is another daze for 1 secs for 5 points? not worth it. I suggest 5% chance to stun for 1 sec on non- crits and 2 secs stun from crits that can only occur every 5 secs
T4
Low Blows: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are affected by a Control effect. -reasonable
Mocking Gesture: You gain 2/4/6/8/10% Deflect Chance for 10 seconds after entering stealth. -how about 30% chance to reduce damage by 50% for 15 secs after entering stealth
T5
Skullcracker: Every 20 seconds you gain Skullcracker. While you have Skullcracker your next Encounter Power Dazes the target for 2 seconds. While a target is affected by Skullcracker your attacks will extend the Daze on the target by .5 seconds, up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% increased damage to targets affected by Skullcracker. -good
Executioner: Uses stealth to try and deal as much damage as possible in a single strike.
T1
Arterial Cut: You have 3/6/9/12/15% increased Critical Severity while Stealthed. -good
Grim Pleasure: Your Critical Strikes increase your Power by 1/2/3/4/5% for 4 seconds. - not bad I suggest put a 5% slow when crits
T2
Vicious Pursuit: Foes you damage take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage from you for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack. -good
T3
Twisted Grin: When a foe within 30' of you dies you gain Twisted Grin for 10 seconds which improves the damage of your next attack by 2.5/5/7.5/10/12.5%. This bonus is doubled while in stealth. -good
Last Moments: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are below 40% HP. This threshhold is increased to 70% while you are stealthed. - good
T4
Exposed Weakness: Stealth also causes you to ignore 5/10/15/20/25% of your target's armor. -atleast a compensation for being melee and squishy
Shadowborn: Entering Stealth grants you 20/40/60/80/100% increased power for your next attack. -atleast a compensation for being melee and squishy
T5
Shadow of Demise: Dealing damage from Stealth places "Shadow of Demise" on the target for 6 seconds. When Shadow of Demise end the target takes 50% of the damage the Rogue dealt as Piercing Damage. Piercing damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor. -good
Comments
Stealth being drained by at-wills needs to go. I mean stealth disappears after 3 clouds of steel and two Disheartening Strikes... it's very irritatin/unplayable. I'm not even gonna talk about Duelist's Flurry. If this stealth mechanic stays, nobody will use that powers, it drains stealth faster than any other at-will.
Please revert back to the old Disheartening Strike, the new one does LESS damage and the "Longer last" isn't even noticeable (Current DiSH does 12-13K and the one on preview does 9.7K...The only way where DiSH does more damage is when you launch it from stealth (Does ~13K)... but with this new stealth mechanic.. it's a no go.
Thank you for buffing VP and Hateful Knives, both do 15-16K now which is awesome.
Please reduce VP's cooldown by a fair amount. Make it a 4 sec cooldown, no cooldown (Like module 2) or make it have 3 charges. The last option seems appropriate.
Hopefully I am completely wrong
Have a fun game all
So they're lying about the changes? 10% less damage but double the duration should mean more in the long run. Sounds like Nightmare Wizardry all over again.
If this is intentional, then it completely kills stealth.
Bug: Stealth Tooltip
It reads "At-Will powers do not spend Stealth"
If at-wills drains stealth, then damage taken out of stealth shouldn't drain stealth meter to stop the reliance on stealth refilling attacks
Umm... encounters break stealth instantly (except the 2 that refill it). Always have.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Encounters have always consumed stealth, except for shadow strike and bait and switch. What should be new is at-wills draining stealth. Dailies should still not affect stealth in any way. I'm interested to see how Lurker's interacts with at-wills. Going to check out preview in a second, will post my detailed feedback in a couple of days.
So far however, my first thoughts on at-wills draining stealth is meh. Cloud of steel, sly flourish, these abilities are now completely usesless in PVE and PVP. Which leaves gloaming cut, flurry, Disheartening strike. Gloaming is getting some significant boosts in both PVP and PVE. DIS is getting a pretty significant nerf in PVE, In PVP it might still be pretty good if you take the auto-crit from stealth and feat buffs into consideration. Flurry is still going to be top dog in PVE, but now your going to be using it always out of stealth when your stealth is consumed and encounters are on CD. For PVP I can only see flurry being used at the end of stealth followed by ITC and SS to cover your butt. Which means it's going to have to be used a lot less.
Hmm ok, it's been months since I touched my TR. I didn't remember that happening at all.
Edit: So on a second thought, what are we exactly supposed to do in stealth. We can't even finish a full round of DF and we can only get off one encounter. That pretty much takes everything out of this class and leaves it really lackluster. What really makes this class any different from a combat HR now?
That is correct. You can not finish a full rotation of DF any more.
Also, someone was asking before, it looks like at wills only drain stealth when doing damage. so you should be able to make the first 2 hits of DF to the air and connec the flurry.
Scoundrel:
Executioner:
I was using Lashing Blade, Wicked Reminder, Impossible to Catch, Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel, First Strike, Skillful Infiltrator, Whirlwind of Blades, and Courage Breaker
Testing was done in Neverdeath ToD area and Icewind Pass
Feedback: Feats
Overall, I got the feel I was wanting from scoundrel - decent survivability/low stealth, disrupts, and armour debuffs.
Unfortunately, I didn't really notice the disrupts. Concussive Strikes and Skullcracker proc for such a short time that I never gained any survivability from dazes (I purposefully ran without Dazing Strike for this reason).
My suggestion so far - either make CS & SC proc stuns or increase the durations
Feedback: Powers
I was very pleased at the amount of damage done.
Stealth + First Strike + Lashing Blade pulled a 40k crit (and I only have a lesser vorpal). The same setup with Whirlwind of Blades cleared an entire 5-man ToD mob.
So, from a PvE side of things, damage was excellent. I can only speculate, however, at the amount of grief said damage is going to cause in PvP.
Additionally, I really enjoyed the rework for Wicked Reminder. 3 charges allowed me to apply stacks quickly outside of stealth and allowed me to reserve stealth for setting up Lashing Blade hits.
Feedback: Scoundrel
Since I didn't go full scoundrel, I can't comment completely on its gameplay, but I can say this: the hybrid playstyle I just tested is what I was hoping pure scoundrel would be (except Arterial cut; I just needed to get that for Vicious Pursuit). I think it'd be possible to remove one of the extraneous deflect buffs and replace it with a debuff.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
The idea is to use stealth as a tactical/positioning tool, with at-wills as supplementary attacks, and then strike strong and hard and mix-it-up a bit while out of stealth, and then return to it --- instead of the "I do all of my attacks from stealth, so I can land streams of damage without ever being seen".
I like this new approach. It should always have been this way.
What I'm not sure of, is that the new changes have not added in enough defensive qualities for the class to actually survive and fight out of stealth Testing in the preview servers should prove whether this is so, or not.
If not, then we simply relay the fact to the developers, and ask for proper measures to be taken so that the TR has enough defensives to play out combat the way the developers intended it.
...instead of throw this godda*ned tantrum and mass hysteria upon their hard work, the friggin bunch of crybabies...
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Time to rejoice guys.
I am a 18.5k TR with 10K Power, 3k Crit, 2.5k AP, 2. Recovery.
I have a Legendary Weapon (Duelist Furry one) that adds 10% damage to all DF attacks.
I ran multiple tests with dungeons and dummies.
Overall the damage is nice, but the survivability needs to be boosted with either more CC or better dodging. I would suggest putting ITC back where it made you immune, or reduce the cool-down of ITC now, as well as smoke bomb.
Damage wise, it's better to slot Gloaming Cut (and use the feat that adds 10% stealth with each hit) and continually attack with Gloaming Cut, than it is to use my Legendary Duelist Fury weapon. Again... I had better damage in the same time just standing there in stealth using Gloaming Cut than I did using Duelist Furry continually. That should NOT happen with a Legendary DF weapon.
You need to change the mechanics of Duelist Furry now, as it's no longer viable with the way Stealth works, as well as ITC. ITC giving that short immunity was what made DF work. You could stealth, go up to big add and spam DF, and when he did his AOE attack, you could just hit ITC... that no longer works. Not only do I no longer have stealth to increase damage from DF, but I no longer have a defense while in DF. DF becomes POINTLESS!
Enough about ITC for the love of god. We need survivability beyond stealth and this encounter WKs DON'T even get.
Powers
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack. -ok
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage. -CWs dont even need to crit to kill a TR
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank). -good
Whirlwind of Blades: No longer ignores Damage Resistance and Immunity and can be Deflected. -reasonable
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%). -good
Courage Breaker: Now increases power by 25% (up from 10%). -good
Courage Breaker: Damage increased by roughly 15%. -good
Deft Strike: Damage increased by roughly 15%. -damage buff is good but this encounter also need CD reduction
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity. -reasonable because you can only get that cs while stealth
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%. -amazing
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5). -finally the only AOE encounter of a TR gets a buff
Path of the Blade: Duration increased to 20 seconds (up from 10). -I'm not impressed with this change i suggest put a bleeding effect that stacks
Path of the Blade: Damage reduced by roughly 20%. -this is double nerf to PotB be careful you are about to destoy this encounter
Path of the Blade: Tooltip now displays the total damage this power will deal, rather than how much it deals each tick.
Impact Shot: Base Damage increased by roughly 15%. -thank you for this
Shadow Strike: Stealth: Daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 3). -how about stun? other class have KD and stun please give us one
Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks on players. -good
Wicked Reminder: Maximum stacks reduced to 3. -hmmm.....how about longer duration?
Wicked Reminder: Now reduces the target's defenses by 7% per stack (up from 4%). -good
Wicked Reminder: Now has 3 charges and 1 charge is refilled every 5 seconds. -make the animation faster and this will be useful
Wicked Reminder: Damage increased by roughly 10%. -not bad
Paragon Paths
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Now lasts 15 seconds (up from 7.5). -this is a huge nerf WK should be a damage oriented type of TR
Whisperknife: Disheartening Strike: Damage reduced by roughly 10%. -reasonable if the DoT is faster feels like an ant sting rather than a scorpion sting
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Now correctly breaks CC on the teleport. -in addition a increase in the duration is needed
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Initial damage increased by roughly 20%. -thank you for this encounter really need this
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Follow up damage increased by 50%. -again thank you may I suggest the activation will be shorter
Whisperknife: Vengeance's Pursuit: Tooltip now lists the total damage this power does, instead of the damage the initial throw will do.
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Combat Advantage time increased to 6 seconds base (up from 3). -good
Whisperknife: Hateful Knives: Damage increased by roughly 50%. -thanks this daily needs it badly single target daily should hit hard and fast compared to AOEs
WhisperKnife: Razor Action: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 100%. The Damage over Time component tied to Seething Knives now only triggers when the player has points in Seething Knives. -I think even if you double the damage it wont be as much as appealing compared to other passives. It needs more improvement so it can provide better playstyle
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Does not drain Stealth Meter when used from Stealth. -good
Master Infiltrator: Gloaming Cut: Now deals up to 25% more damage as the target's HP diminishes (up from 20%). This effect is increased by 25% per rank (up from 5%). -your a genius this At-will will make TRs desirable in dungeons
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%. -TRs arent so tough like GWFs/GF so it needs to be agile and fast in order to survive I suggest increase its duration if you will nerf it to 50% DR
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: No longer ignores Damage Immunity effects. It still ignores all sources of damage resistance and cannot be deflected. -animation is very slow
Thanks. I haven't played TR since early Spring, being my first toon and had forgotten the ways of the TR.
That being said, I found it difficult (while solo'ing) to run as saboteur. Stealth gets eaten away so fast with at-wills or loosing it with encounters, most of the time when I am able to go back into stealth, none of my encounters are ready. Then of course I can't get off a full rotation of DF at all in stealth, which means the stealth is greatly wasted. Granted my TR isn't very geared at all, 11k GS with 1,400 recovery. IF that is the case, then saboteur will have to be very gear dependent to play.
I found it easier as executioner just being able to put out pure DPS. I wait to enter stealth when my encounters are about to come up. With this case, I use Dazing Strike, Lashing Blade and Shadow Strike.
The two feats that reduce cooldown also apply their effects to artifacts.
Also I feel like the executioner tree will bring a lot of complaints in pvp. It's hard to make it do good damage in PVE and not cheesy damage in PVP
My god I can't choose the three paths are Awesome!
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
I agree. I was just running with what was challenging to my 14k TR, while also having changed my power rotation slightly.
I won't lie, I got my butt handed to me a few times, but that's what preview's for.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Feedback:
(PVP) I did some testing and so far the path that I've found more "comfortable" is Scoundrel. It lacks both Saboteur and Executioner good damage feats but still feels overall better. Want to know why? Because it's miserable deflection and dazes (life steal doesn't even feel) gives it a little better survability than the others. And I agree that's what the path should do but please buff it, life steal in the feats is too little to notice and dazes are somewhat nice but could do better.
(PVE) Hadn't been able to test it that well in pve, just solo content. And god, First strike + stealth + Blitz is sooo goooood. On the other hand, with Lashing Blade at first I was like "OMG BIG ORANGE NUMBERS ARE AWESOME"... but then, you can't rely on it, it isn't sustained damage and fails too much to hit hard. Duelist's Flurry needs a buff or a rework, makes you lose stealth too fast and without it there are many feats that lose effect. It's an awesome ability that doesn't deserve to be turned into trash.
T1
Flashing Blades: Your At Will attacks deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage while your stealth meter isn't full. -I would rather exchange that 5% for faster At-Will execution (DF and GC)
Shady Preperations: Entering Stealth reduces all your cooldowns by 2/4/6/8/10%. -TRs got long cooldowns 10% is like an ant on a hill it should be 50% why? stealth meter have long refill time and getting hit and hitting reduces the meter so its reasonable.
T2
Knife's Edge: Activating a Daily reduces all of your cooldowns by 3/6/9/12/15%. -I think this is useless because TR have slow action points gain compared to other class. I suggest change this to something more useful like 30% chance to delfect for 10 secs after leaving stealth or being able to enter stealth even with half stealth meter because all experienced TR knows that a visible TR is 70% likely to be killed in combat.
T3
Return to Shadows: While behind your target, dealing damage with Encounter Powers refills 10/20/30/40/50% of your Stealth Meter. This effect cannot trigger when leaving stealth. -put increase movement speed
Gutterborn's Touch: While behind your target, dealing damage grants you Gutterborn for 6 seconds which causes you to ignore 2/4/6/8/10% more Armor on the target and increases your Power by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect does not stack. -good
T4
Ambusher's Haste: While Stealthed you gain a damage bonus of 5/10/15/20/25%. This bonus dimishes as your stealth meter drains out. -nice
Shadowy Opportunity: When you deal damage from stealth you deal an additional 15/30/45/60/75% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores defenses. -good
T5
One with the Shadows: Every 20 seconds you gain "One with the Shadows". While you are affected by "One with the Shadows" the next time you deal damage with an Encounter Power you instantly refill your Stealth Meter and gain a 20% damage buff to Stealth Encounter Powers for 10 seconds. -good
Scoundrel: A brawler who debuffs foes and can take a lot of damage.
T1
Roll with the Punches: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Deflect Chance. -lol!2.5%? HRs will laugh at this! I suggest 10% chance is reasonable
Bloody Brawler: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Lifesteal. -HRs will just laugh and say Devs loves us more! lol!
T2
Survivor: When your HP is below 30% you gain 2/4/6/8/10% increased deflect chance. -who wants to wait for 30% hp before they can benefit from a 10% deflect chance? A CW will burst a TR down in a blink of an eye and that 10% isnt that useful. Change this to something useful like 50% chance to recieve 70% less damage when below 40% hp I would like o remind you that TRs doesnt have big hp pools.
T3
Savage Blows: Dealing damage to foes increases your Lifesteal by .2/.4/.6/.6/1% for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. - how about just plain 5% Lifesteal no need to wait for 5 stacks or 15% Lifesteal for at 5 stacks.
Concussive Strikes: Your Critical Strikes and attacks from behind damage daze foes for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second. Foes can only be dazed this way once every 5 seconds. -TR got smoke bomb and dazing strike so here is another daze for 1 secs for 5 points? not worth it. I suggest 5% chance to stun for 1 sec on non- crits and 2 secs stun from crits that can only occur every 5 secs
T4
Low Blows: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are affected by a Control effect. -reasonable
Mocking Gesture: You gain 2/4/6/8/10% Deflect Chance for 10 seconds after entering stealth. -how about 30% chance to reduce damage by 50% for 15 secs after entering stealth
T5
Skullcracker: Every 20 seconds you gain Skullcracker. While you have Skullcracker your next Encounter Power Dazes the target for 2 seconds. While a target is affected by Skullcracker your attacks will extend the Daze on the target by .5 seconds, up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% increased damage to targets affected by Skullcracker. -good
Executioner: Uses stealth to try and deal as much damage as possible in a single strike.
T1
Arterial Cut: You have 3/6/9/12/15% increased Critical Severity while Stealthed. -good
Grim Pleasure: Your Critical Strikes increase your Power by 1/2/3/4/5% for 4 seconds. - not bad I suggest put a 5% slow when crits
T2
Vicious Pursuit: Foes you damage take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage from you for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack. -good
T3
Twisted Grin: When a foe within 30' of you dies you gain Twisted Grin for 10 seconds which improves the damage of your next attack by 2.5/5/7.5/10/12.5%. This bonus is doubled while in stealth. -good
Last Moments: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are below 40% HP. This threshhold is increased to 70% while you are stealthed. - good
T4
Exposed Weakness: Stealth also causes you to ignore 5/10/15/20/25% of your target's armor. -atleast a compensation for being melee and squishy
Shadowborn: Entering Stealth grants you 20/40/60/80/100% increased power for your next attack. -atleast a compensation for being melee and squishy
T5
Shadow of Demise: Dealing damage from Stealth places "Shadow of Demise" on the target for 6 seconds. When Shadow of Demise end the target takes 50% of the damage the Rogue dealt as Piercing Damage. Piercing damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor. -good