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Can someone explain the "greed" mentaily?
vadimt83
Member Posts: 259 Arc User
For some reason people expect you to greed on boss loot in dungeons. I find this baffling.
Lets say the boss drops an item for my class, an item which is better than what I have, which I intend to use, which I NEED. Why would someone expect me to "greed" on it? He/she cant use it and just want to sell it on the AH for, well no better word to say it - greed.
We play a game. We run dungeons for fun and to get nice new shinny things for our toon. I never cared for any loot I cant use, and I never cared for the AH. I just enjoy the game. why other people can't?
Edit: typos.
Lets say the boss drops an item for my class, an item which is better than what I have, which I intend to use, which I NEED. Why would someone expect me to "greed" on it? He/she cant use it and just want to sell it on the AH for, well no better word to say it - greed.
We play a game. We run dungeons for fun and to get nice new shinny things for our toon. I never cared for any loot I cant use, and I never cared for the AH. I just enjoy the game. why other people can't?
Edit: typos.
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myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Avoid pugging and make some friends or do guild runs to legitimately upgrade gear by rolling loot.
- From someone who greeded his SW loot
Also if you do actually use the item at that price instead of selling it and earning it from teh chest, you're kind of a fool or rich.
When I first did guild CN runs I was wondering the same why we couldn't need if we did need it. I didn't complain, but it was a system that worked well. Everyone managed to profit from our split runs and eventually you can buy the items yourself. Otherwise why should they run with people that don't have lesser gear and just stick to well geared groups. Something people whine about too about people asking for 15k gs for whatever t2.
If it's BoP, of course I'd expect you to need on it though if you don't have it. Even if it's just for collection points.
If someone before hand asks to need something, I have no issue, just pressing need without communicating about it is kind of rude.
Secondly, this is what I dont get, this argument is over maybe , MAYBE 5% of the entire drops in the entire game.. most of the time even the armours that drop are non usable t1s or offsets that have only small AD value. You cant tell me your using that Karrundux GWF armour drop.
Frankly, the amount of actual, valuable items in this game is very limited, right now to certain CW, GWF, SW and HR armours, DC armours are virtually free, other then high prophet.
So basically your talking about 4 classes, a few t2 or t1 set items that have any value for your class. Everything is everything else needs, like greater marks, belts and whatever other junk is out there, its all greed imo.
If your missing a set armour , say a GWF armour and it drops in SP and YOU dont have it, I have no issue you rolling need, but if you DO have it, then ya, I then again consider it rude.
I just press greed on everything, even if Im missing the armour set piece still, IMO others poeple time is just as valuable as mine and they have every right to roll on it.
If you are running with regular friends, guilds, then its totally different.
Well, first of all you are assuming other people play and/or have fun the way that you do. We are all different.
Secondly, if you don't want to do a greed run, then don't. Greed runs are normally for players who already have high-level gear and wouldn't actually need anything anyway. They do those dungeons to make money. They are spending their time and effort and they have the right to play that they way if they choose. My GF just hit 60 and he needs the drops, so he doesn't do greed runs. There is nothing that will drop in any T2 dungeon my HR needs, so he only does those to make money.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with those people or that method. It's all about perspective.
Unfortunately in most random PUGS, this is the default method, even if you joined to run dungeons for gear. Best bet is to just find a group to run with because you need the gear...try the NW Legit Channel or even get hooked up with a guild that cares more about the people playing than the pixels.
Even if class drops were equal, parties usually have more that one member of same class - e.g 2 CWs or 2 GWFs. In that case they have 1/2 chance to be rewarded compared to other classes - like DC or GF (because no one would get 2xGFs or 2xDCs in party).
If 'Need' was changed to make any items won that way un-sellable on the AH and un-salvageable that would be a good start.
Basically, it's a rule created by older players who are, as the name implies, greedy, and don't want to risk doing a dungeon run and getting nothing because there happens to be someone there who actually NEEDs the gear.
Need before greed is fair, this game is no different, it's just the people who want to make popular several 'rules' that benefit themselves - like this one or the one where you're no allowed to pick up greens etc.
And to everyone explaining/defending the greed approach -
I'm sorry but if you play to "get rewarded for your time", maybe you should do something else. Like go play football, the weather is nice :P
Games are a past time activity, not a job.
Totally disagree, Ive never won any item that I could actually use, maybe , maybe 1 out of 100 runs something popped up that I "needed" but greeded anyways.
Eventually you can gear out with ever winning one of these items. The items do eventually pop up in the chest.
No one is "stuck" in the situation you describe.
you kidding me, you have seen this playerbase, they would see a purple and need, regardless, even if that got 50 pieces of silver out of it , they would do that, instead of letting others have it.
the set up is fine the way it is.
Than make it unsellable to vendors to. Use or discard, end of story.
Legit Channel runs are "greed all" by default unless you specify otherwise.
I mean the channel itself doesn't have any official loot rules, just saying that is the default loot policy.
Of course people in the legit channel are generally willing to carry you through any dungeon you meet the gs requirement for to help you farm your gear. This is what DD is for, tons of chances to get the drop you want from the DD chest.
Which is why they should stop making this game a daily grind instead of the constant progression everyone used to enjoy.
QFT.. +100 points if I could give it to you.
You can disagree. Though saying 'this is not true because *I* something something" is not really an argument.
The truth is, if you're unlucky you can go on never ever getting gear. It's definitely a lot slower. And this, to a new player, is complete bull. You see all these high scored geared players who get a very small benefit from a purple who seem to think it is fair for them and for you to have the same shot at the purple.
The idea of need before greed is simple. You NEED it? Yes? then by all means, take it, next time you won't need it anymore. You don't need it, then greed it. We all will. This way, all of us get to the same level of gearing but wait - we don't want that, do we? We want geared players to be always better geared than the new player and hope to slow him down as much as possible. I think people forget what it was like being new and undergeared.
Right on spot +1
Can't think of anything else to add tbh.
Trust me. You have it easy. You know that choice you have at the end of the dungeon in the chest? Yep that didn't used to exist. You have it easier than what the older players had to go through. I find that one of the hardest struggles is to actually find people willing to go to the dungeons where you can gear up. What's more important, needing on the rare drop that everyone wants an equal chance of getting when the chest is the best option to get your gear piece anyway, or having enough people to actually form a group. Plus if you don't like it you can always form your own group with your own rules, just don't expect most people to like them. If needing was the norm I'd personally be the ****** exploiting the release of a new class to need on that expensive loot so that I'm not the one that loses out. Instead I've been greeding even when I wanted the set piece but realised it's best to sell and try for the chest.
The only loot rolls that actually matter for gear progression is really the bop stuff which people expect you to need when you want it and cn weapons that are kind of outclassed anyway. Not only that but old players didn't have artifacts and boons or the help of those that are overgeared. Although they did have an easier time to et lesser/normal enchantments.
All in all, get your gear from the chest like everyone else unless the group rules are different. I had 8 toons to gear up, I'm sure you can manage it.
So u would need i.e. on a High Vizier Cap drop that sells for 500k or an SW that sells for close to a million ad, because its the last piece missing from your armor set. And then u would equip this piece of armor and throw away 500k ad because u are unable to understand that armor pieces are for free in chests..and then you call greedy people who ask for a fair roll on an expensive item...you are TOTALLY and UTTER wrong here as all of the people that whine about the greed system. People run dungeons to get AD, get over it. Its fair for all to be able to roll on a CW or SW item that sells for so many ad, its not a piece of armor anymore, its AD. And all the suckers that run in the dungeon want equal chance. If u want your missing piece of armor grab a key or run a dungeon in DD time and you will get it for free. If u dont wanna wait go buy it if u have ad. All is time relevant in this game. Higher geared players are either older players who spend A YEAR to gear up for free, or cash players who bought their gear with real money. If u wanna gear up fast pay or do the ninja style and degrade yourself to a pitiful ninja pug.
Greed all is a perfectly balanced system for all who participate and spend their time in the game. Need is the greedy option here. Its not a matter of opinion, its THE FACTS that define the truth of the matter. There is no valid personal opinion in this matter. So stop trolling and get a dungeon key if u want gear
I will say this was my first bad experience with pugs through the queue. You could tell that one of them was an "elitest" He was running past trash and doing shortcuts we have never seen without explaining anything and got upset when we didn't know what to do. His main goal was just finish as fast as he can and treated it like work. We were actually in the dungeon to have fun and being the first time it is the experience that counts. I think alot of people forget that over time and "assume" everyone is just farming like they are.
I think some nice suggestions have been made on here as far as making "need" items only discard or use. Because having to greed 1/5 upgrades is not a fun way to gear up for new players. I think the best way to go is with a group of friends/guild.
Actually you are wrong in assuming that people only play to be on an AD farming grind. You totally forget the fact that this is a GAME that people wish to enjoy and not everyone is tryharding to the top as fast as they can. Some people gear more slowly and finding that last set piece is a great accomplishment. Sorry that you don't enjoy the game and treat it like a "job" or an investment but some of us do.
The thing is there isn't enough content in the game to keep people interested otherwise. If you think others shouldn't treat it as a "job" and focus on progressing then you'd have a dead game because everyone would have quickly beat all of the content. The progression is the only goal left and with no reward it makes the content pointless. Though imo it's gone to the point where it's pointless anyway even if you do greed.
Imo what would be best is for the party leader to set loot rules or allow people to vote and have that option locked in. That way if the group wants it all greed, noone can ninja the loot.
I don't like playing with the type of player you mentioned.
Sadly, some hard-core gamers think of this game as their life . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
If you're SW, and you choose need, and you equip it... now it's bound. So it's worth 0 AD.
At least, that's the point the OP is trying to make. In theory, the system could do a "bind on need," too, to loosely enforce that something is truly needed. If you really do need it, you'll equip it, so the binding would be irrelevant. Non-equipment is different, of course.
The need vs greed mechanic is just strange to me, though. You could easily argue that by choosing "need" for your own class, you're being greedy by taking away something of higher AD value.
The only way for it to be "fair" (ish) would be for the system to boost rolls if an item is a) for your class and b) the system thinks it's better than what you have (e.g. "recommended", which isn't always accurate). That means everyone would have a higher chance of getting items for their class and that are better than what they have. This could automatically replace the "need or greed" dialog and just leave with a "someone can equip this as a better item, roll or pass for it."
Gear is the easy part of this game.. there is so many ways to get viable gear, regardless of whats BiS.. and many ways to get them profound, BI, Draconic are alternatives as well.
Enchants are the hard part, enchants cost much more money..
Im not multi dollar millionaire AD hoarder, Im gearing out 6 different toons myself, mostly through getting the gear myself. My best enchants are r8s total, I could have more, but I would rather play 5-6 different classes.
Join Legit, run with peeps, you will eventually get the gear, you will almost never see a actual useful item drop.
This comes down to such a small percentage of drops, I dont know why this comes up. If people are being greedy and rolling need on common 10k ad items, thats just wrong.
It does pay to pick up the "green junk" as you can make a fair amount of profit from it in gold. YES, you do require gold in order to do many things. I hit "greed" on green items 95% of the time in PUG groups. This includes enchants or runestones as they ARE green items. Ditto residuum. Anyone whom complains "stop looting green trash" doesn't know the value of loot.
As for the suggested "boost the rolls for your class" statement above this would just make it harder to get armor etc for your alts, and I speak AGAINST that even being a player whom prefers to keep one character only. I may EVENTUALLY get a dragonborne something after I save up enough free Zen for a pack. I wouldn't want it made harder for me to equip her just because my main rogue cannot obtain other class items for the dragonborne. Think on that one a moment.
It comes down to if you really NEED an item from a boss perhaps just ask as the dungeon starts "Hey if a ____ drops could I please Need on it in exchange for a Pass on another item?" Most people will be reasonable. If nothing else this is a good argument in favor of being part of a caring larger guild rather than soloing, or even being in one of those silly "hey I'll pay two people to make a guild with me then you can drop" sort of exploit guilds. Good guild = less PUG groups.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon