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Hr piercing dmg

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  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    I agree with you on a lot :) ... I was on test shard for weeks with other high end pvp gf players and we was testing with pvp hr players and have been since mod 4 and the gf loses about 70% of the time. The one thing a gf can do is get lucky with a 1 hit rotation( by luck i mean, mostly crit hits and the hr not deflecting much or at all)

    Well yeah. Im not saying it 100% equal chances. CW with 2k GS lower can kill HR easily in one rotation. It has to be balance better for sure. You kinda need 100 fights of same opponents in same start conditions to get % of balance. Really impossible. I do think that GF shield blocking CW ray is good fix.
    I had pug fights with same gf like 20 time. pretty much we were equal on win losses. Don't know his GS thought. But he and one more geared one cold kill me in one rotation no sweat. twice in row. Then I got them 2-3 times) so it is kinda balance. Way more balanced then 1 vs 1 HR DC now . OR SW vs anything else except HR or GF.

    But like I sad - HR in mod 3 were more Hunter Rangers.Rather then this stuff we have now where devs tried to put hr in combat stand only and fix all <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they did earlier by more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on top of it.
  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    Yeah mod 3 hr was almost unkillable but couldn't do all the insane dot dmg, I would also prefer that. PVP is becoming about JUST dps, some skill and strategy should still remain but all classes keep getting dps buffs and now with glyphs it's who has the most dps wins.

    I kinda liked HR more before mod 3 pathfinder and regen stuff. Where we did more damage but where way more squshier. And most important we were not just nerfed archer for pve and nerfed-to-1-path combat HR in pvp and pretty bad in pve.
    It all
    - Unmitigated damage and base HR damage with encounter reworked.
    - entire defense/deflect made more D&D with Armor Rating, Fortitude, Reflexes and Will
    - limit to 1 stand for archer and combat
    - pretty much no reliable way to escape CC.
    - no use for support spells like Hindering Heal
    - armor and gear nerf
    - artifacts for off-hand

    has to be reworked unfortunately IMHO.
  • indalordindalord Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    "That is strongest from a pathfinder."

    With my pvp HR 16K and the StormWarden path, I did not see this effect . So, all not the HR class is concerned, I think.
    Moreover, recently I noticed that few 12K HRs can kill me in 2 seconds. I have a correct rank (around page 50) and a descent gear
    Indalord I & II
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    thedemien wrote: »
    I kinda liked HR more before mod 3 pathfinder and regen stuff. Where we did more damage but where way more squshier. And most important we were not just nerfed archer for pve and nerfed-to-1-path combat HR in pvp and pretty bad in pve.
    It all
    - Unmitigated damage and base HR damage with encounter reworked.
    - entire defense/deflect made more D&D with Armor Rating, Fortitude, Reflexes and Will
    - limit to 1 stand for archer and combat
    - pretty much no reliable way to escape CC.
    - no use for support spells like Hindering Heal
    - armor and gear nerf
    - artifacts for off-hand

    has to be reworked unfortunately IMHO.

    If the HR also needs a rework, so be it. Frankly, I'm not sure just what to call the HR any more. Rangers in D&D can be versatile and both capable as a ranged and melee combatant, but still the defining format/archetype for the class is basically the "archer", with the iconic imagery being the bow, arrow, and an animal partner.

    Instead, our HR is a weird combination of some archery skills, certain melee powers way too powerful, and not even true melee OR ranged for that matter -- it's DoT. I've used this comparison several times already but the MMOG class that most closely resembles our HR is actually the World of Warcraft Warlock.

    The WoW Warlock is quite tanky for a spellcaster, it doesn't really have much of any direct attack, and its basic combat pattern is to apply a helluva lot of DoTs, then CC the target and run in circles, let the DoT do all the life-draining job while the Warlock simply runs and concentrates in surviving.

    If anything, my opinion is that our HRs need stronger direct damage archery powers, more slow/root type CCs (just not the old bullshi* grapsing roots which grasps your ankles even if the attack misses), and most of the melee powers reduced to supplementary/utility type powers, instead of what the HR is now -- gimmicky ranged powers, super-easy melee powers with bullshi* damage, and endless barrage of free-damage DoT/procs.

    I've always maintained the same stance with unmitigated/undodgeable damage: it doesn't belong in a game like NW. If all the damage potential the HR currently has, is simply lifted away from DoTs and procs, and was moved to direct archery attacks - which can be avoided with skill - then I'd actually accept that as it is.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • edited September 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    I noticed this too: this game is becoming the new WoW due that much DoT, auto-proc passives with insane damage, skill-less classes, etc. I said this previously, but a mod just deleted my post... but i will say it again over and over again... not due "i am squareheaded", but due a lot of people think and feel like this.

    WoW is not an Action MMO, and PvP is better there by far, and actually working. Just the fact that it has Tab targetting doesn't make a game worse by default. Claiming that the game takes no skill is quite crazy, as evidenced by the very small number of players that are actually good at high-end PvP or able to clear heroic raids before the nerfs.

    If anything, the devs here could learn a lot from WoW. You know... things there JUST WORK.
  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    1. What any hr would do is, boar charge....rain of swords....activates all red glyphs and does very high dmg. It's easy to land on any player.

    2. The thread is titled "12k HR 1 hit rotation against 19k GWF" because I was showing the dps that a hr can do with just 3 powers/ dot dmg. Not 12k hr 1v1s and beats 19kgwf.

    Read before posting please.

    What kind of idiot would use rain of swords in PvP.....
  • cryptfoundationcryptfoundation Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    1. What any hr would do is, boar charge....rain of swords....activates all red glyphs and does very high dmg. It's easy to land on any player.

    2. The thread is titled "12k HR 1 hit rotation against 19k GWF" because I was showing the dps that a hr can do with just 3 powers/ dot dmg. Not 12k hr 1v1s and beats 19kgwf.

    Read before posting please.

    You realize that if they miss boars their whole rotation is screwed, and since everyone is giving out bursts they can't afford that. They're not going to even be able to get close with a moving opponent that's actually trying so they're going to need either Maurarders or to waste all their dodges (made for defense) on 2 offensive attacks that have a chance of being sprinted out of, dodged, or blocked.... The red glyphs are broken all by themselves so I don't really thing you can pin that on the HR
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    bvira wrote: »
    What kind of idiot would use rain of swords in PvP.....

    Guys I did NOT say anywhere that I use this rotation. I have said multiple times i used it in the vid to show dot dmg... and my last reply was saying it's not hard to land, because it isn't.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • stah01stah01 Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bvira wrote: »
    What kind of idiot would use rain of swords in PvP.....

    The kind that can melt you in seconds. Most underrated pvp encounter. which is good because would be a bummer to see it nerfed too. I run archery since the fun factor of dom/pvp has been lost but I'm pretty geared out. Multiple legendary artifacts, all artifact equipment and all rank 10 radiants with full black ice or profound. I get melted by a 12k Combat spec all the time. GC implemented it to be this way.. to fix it either changes the feat tree again or nerf's an entire feat line.

    CW's can still perma cc most classes. This seems a fair trade off. Also, you are forgetting how the changes you want would affect someone who pvp's and pve's. Same can be said of GF's and CW's. Even from a pve perspective, I have CW's kiting scorpions in LoL and still doing 1-3m+ more dmg than me.. and Im focused on burning the other scorpion down. So why do Cw's get DD and CC but no one else can be good at multiple things like dmg+healing.

    And the poor trapper tree is worse than nature.. at least nature had an interesting build and used all the neglected powers.

    I think someone said watch what you wish for.. It could get worse.
    GShBCGl.jpg
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    The red glyphs are broken all by themselves so I don't really thing you can pin that on the HR

    I am not, and before i made this thread i made a thread about red glyphs and spoke about my own class, the gf and our infinite dailys being wrong, and when mixed with glyphs is op. As i said before if i make a post its because i want balance.

    Also All pvp hr or at least 99% use fox shift and boars in pvp and then 3rd power is either thorn ward or marauders so if they miss boar there rotation isnt messed up. Hr has crazy movement speed so can catch up to most players and with marauders or some other powers its very easy to do. The one class that its kinda hard to catch is cw.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    stah01 wrote: »
    The kind that can melt you in seconds. Most underrated pvp encounter. which is good because would be a bummer to see it nerfed too. I run archery since the fun factor of dom/pvp has been lost but I'm pretty geared out. Multiple legendary artifacts, all artifact equipment and all rank 10 radiants with full black ice or profound. I get melted by a 12k Combat spec all the time. GC implemented it to be this way.. to fix it either changes the feat tree again or nerf's an entire feat line.

    CW's can still perma cc most classes. This seems a fair trade off. Also, you are forgetting how the changes you want would affect someone who pvp's and pve's. Same can be said of GF's and CW's. Even from a pve perspective, I have CW's kiting scorpions in LoL and still doing 1-3m+ more dmg than me.. and Im focused on burning the other scorpion down. So why do Cw's get DD and CC but no one else can be good at multiple things like dmg+healing.

    And the poor trapper tree is worse than nature.. at least nature had an interesting build and used all the neglected powers.

    I think someone said watch what you wish for.. It could get worse.
    Just because a power could do high damage doesn't make it useful in PvP. RoS and RoA can both be easily dodged, so yea...
  • osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    If the HR also needs a rework, so be it. Frankly, I'm not sure just what to call the HR any more. Rangers in D&D can be versatile and both capable as a ranged and melee combatant, but still the defining format/archetype for the class is basically the "archer", with the iconic imagery being the bow, arrow, and an animal partner.

    No, they were not. Not in D&D1:
    Rangers are a sub-class of Fighting Men, similar in many ways to
    the new sub-class Paladins, for they must always remain Lawful or lose
    all the benefits they gained (except, of course, experience as a fighter).
    Strength is their Prime Requisite, but they must also have both Intelli-
    gence and Wisdom scores of at least 12 each, and a Constitution of at
    least 15.

    Not in AD&D, where they were a subclass of the fighter, and they were the ONLY HAD MELEE! (AD&D PH1, page 25, table of rangers attacks per round)


    Not in AD&D 2nd Edtion, where HRs still listed under the fighter category:
    The ranger is a hunter and woodsman who lives by not only his sword, but also his wits. ... Although the ranger can use any weapon and wear any armor, several of his special
    abilities are usable only when he is wearing studded leather or lighter armor. ..

    Not until 3rd edition the bow was listed as a weapon for rangers, as a subtype path u could choose. Before that, there were mainly MELEE FIGHTERS!

    And even now, 4th Edition, the rules which NWO is based on, the HR remains a class who can choose from more melee paths than ranges ones.

    Where does come the myth rangers are ranged classes???

    Stop that misinformation!


    This thread is so full of false assumptions. Seems people neither have knowledge about d&d NOR the online game... gosh...
  • thirty6chambersthirty6chambers Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    Don't trust the other guy. Trust me. It's Piercing Blades. Or rather, the way how varying degrees of undodgeable, unmitigatable damage sources including PB, was just presented to the HR classm that is the problem.

    Red Dragon Glyph is merely a catalyst which magnifies something that was already a problem by itself, starting from mod3 and the addition of Careful Attack. Basically crixus nailed it on the head. He sees it.


    In a game where defensive mechanics are generally weak and time-to-kill very short, any mechanic from any class that deals damage in the form of "unmitigated" or "undodgeable", or (heaven forbid) BOTH simply has no place in PvP.

    This guy has the idea. I have an 18k gwf pvp spec. Purified gear, SENT. 1907 reg. 2208 deflect. 39% chance deflect. 4k defense. 47% defense. 49k Hitpoints. 8k offense, 10k defense.

    The HRs unavoidable + unmitigated damage is unbelievable! HOW CAN YOU HAVE A CLASS THAT HEALS ITSELF THE MORE YOU ATTACK IT?!! Aside from the piercing damage, the deflecting off of heals and lifesteal mechanic needs to be looked at well.

    I can only speak as a GWF right now. My CW has no problems with them, but as a GWF, without my prone's I CANNOT 1v1 an HR or node fight them.

    Really, that is the glaring problem in this MOD with GWF vs HR. The inability to prone them. With my prone's I can then deal a massive amount of damage that they can't recover from. They essentially die in the next rotation. I see that proning is a problem for the other classes, even more so. But without it, fighting an HR is impossible.

    And yes, i'm one of those GWFs who won't run and I will fight to the death on the node, specifically if its 1v1 as well. Running with a character holding a damned 12 foot blade is unspeakable. Especially from a leather clad, bow toting tard named Legolas/Drizzt who thinks he's good because of broken development.
  • thirty6chambersthirty6chambers Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    No, they were not. Not in D&D1:



    Not in AD&D, where they were a subclass of the fighter, and they were the ONLY HAD MELEE! (AD&D PH1, page 25, table of rangers attacks per round)


    Not in AD&D 2nd Edtion, where HRs still listed under the fighter category:



    Not until 3rd edition the bow was listed as a weapon for rangers, as a subtype path u could choose. Before that, there were mainly MELEE FIGHTERS!

    And even now, 4th Edition, the rules which NWO is based on, the HR remains a class who can choose from more melee paths than ranges ones.

    Where does come the myth rangers are ranged classes???

    Stop that misinformation!


    This thread is so full of false assumptions. Seems people neither have knowledge about d&d NOR the online game... gosh...

    This isn't hard to answer Einstein.

    People think they should be RANGED because of the BIG *** BOW ON THEIR BACKS. Not to mention any form of a Ranger in pop culture, gaming today presents them as a primarily ranged damage dealing bad-***.

    I play a GWF primarily, right now. Don't know why though. Guess i'm hardened. I had it good for a while and I guess I like the abuse.

    But I bet if I could sling my 2 handed cleaver in your direction 80 yards away, you'd be pissed. Even if it was just to finish you off, you'd be pissed.

    I'd call the encounter power "Campfire". The farther away the target, the more crit chance i'd get too. Would be killer. Bring back GWF crying status.
  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It's funny how a RANGER could do s*** tons more MELEE damage than all other melee classes.

    They could even heal much more than a DC (heal to full with lifesteal feats). Something just doesn't seem right...
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'd call the encounter power "Campfire". The farther away the target, the more crit chance i'd get too. Would be killer. Bring back GWF crying status.

    Man, this is exactly the power I thought about when there was only 1 paragon path.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bvira wrote: »
    It's funny how a RANGER could do s*** tons more MELEE damage than all other melee classes.

    They could even heal much more than a DC (heal to full with lifesteal feats). Something just doesn't seem right...
    The class name Ranger has NOTHING TO DO WITH RANGE. And it never has, in the entire history of D&D. See Aragorn for details.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • stah01stah01 Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The class name Ranger has NOTHING TO DO WITH RANGE. And it never has, in the entire history of D&D. See Aragorn for details.

    Roffels/10char
    GShBCGl.jpg
  • mulemulemule2mulemulemule2 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The class name Ranger has NOTHING TO DO WITH RANGE. And it never has, in the entire history of D&D. See Aragorn for details.

    LOL @ history of D & D. This game is so far off canon its only relation now is in name only. In this game rangers are primarily a ranged class. Just look, the bow is the main hand weapon and the blades are off hand. The bow holds the weapon enchant. Its pretty obvious and its also obvious that the feat tree of rangers needs to be corrected. Un-mitigated damage has no place here. An encounter that can melt 27k hp off of a GWF with the best gear in the game has no place here.

    Its nerf or nothing.
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    An encounter that can melt 27k hp off of a GWF with the best gear in the game has no place here.

    Its nerf or nothing.

    Where does that put 30K IBS and Savage from BiS GWFs?

    Nerf or nothing?
  • mulemulemule2mulemulemule2 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Where does that put 30K IBS and Savage from BiS GWFs?

    Nerf or nothing?

    I am not certain what you are saying here since you use acronyms but I will clarify my post for you. An encounter that does 27k damage to a GWF who is wearing the best gear in the game, that encounter has no place here. Un-mitigated damage has no place here. Not at that high of a value. Remember mod 2 when everyone cried "Nerf TR impact, lashing, they 1 hitting cw's QQ" Well TR's got nerfed because they could 1 hit cloth wearing classes. Now we have HR that can do a similar amount of damage to all classes.... Do you understand? Its nerf or nothing because the devs will either Nerf it or do nothing. That is how these devs roll.
  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The class name Ranger has NOTHING TO DO WITH RANGE. And it never has, in the entire history of D&D. See Aragorn for details.

    Since ranger, according to you, has absolutely nothing to do with range, why not just remove the bow? Not like they need it anyway.
  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Where does that put 30K IBS and Savage from BiS GWFs?

    Nerf or nothing?

    Let's face it, HR's piercing blade is way more problematic.
  • edited September 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    WoW is not an Action MMO, and PvP is better there by far, and actually working. Just the fact that it has Tab targetting doesn't make a game worse by default. Claiming that the game takes no skill is quite crazy, as evidenced by the very small number of players that are actually good at high-end PvP or able to clear heroic raids before the nerfs.

    If anything, the devs here could learn a lot from WoW. You know... things there JUST WORK.

    That's because in WoW, the perfect counter class to spellcasters are Rogues. *hint hint*

    The Rogues there are fitted with some anti-magic self protection*hint hint*, smoke screen that prevents ranged attacks*hint hint*, very powerful gap closers*hint hint*, but mostly silencer attacks*hint hint* and powerful CCs*hint hint*... so generally in WoW fighters are naturally very strong against TRs, but weak against spellcasters, spellcasters generally eat fighters for lunch, but are weak against rogues, and rogues are the bane of spellcasters, but very difficult to take on fighters... although this predatory balance isn't set in stone.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kweassa wrote: »
    If the HR also needs a rework, so be it. Frankly, I'm not sure just what to call the HR any more. Rangers in D&D can be versatile and both capable as a ranged and melee combatant, but still the defining format/archetype for the class is basically the "archer", with the iconic imagery being the bow, arrow, and an animal partner.

    You are wrong. In NN 1 and 2 first thing you do is select bow or 2 longsword path. And I think it is same in playbook for D&d 4 and 5. So melee is exactly what belongs to hunter. But you are right about dots - no WoW please.

    Archer are not Ranger.

    2ns thing you are wrong - so big melee damage. Another lie. all HR state that it is low. That is why they put Piercing in first place.

    So all your lie about ranger keep away from HR in Neverwinter. Keep away all this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of knowlage from people that left other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> games.
  • crazymikeecrazymikee Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    no one should have unmitigatable damage on feats
    Coach Mike - 19.1k PvP CW
    CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW

    Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
    [SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    bvira wrote: »
    Let's face it, HR's piercing blade is way more problematic.
    HR overall damage indeed is, because it's from procs and not from a rotation that takes time to set up and might miss, might not crit, might be deflected and so on.

    Was just saying that other classes have the potential to do tons of damage, and do it quite often as well.
  • mulemulemule2mulemulemule2 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crazymikee wrote: »
    no one should have unmitigatable damage on feats

    Exactly. There are classes (GF) who is made to mitigate damage and be a tank. If you give HR damage that can't be resisted then you just unbalanced the game and tossed the GF class out the window unless of course you decide to give the GF a feat that "mitigates" un-mitigatable damage, which given the history of these devs and how they have been trying to "balance" the game is probably what will happen. Not trying to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on the dev's parade but the player base is unhappy and its directly because of the multiple failures at balance, lack of innovation and creativity shortcomings.

    If I didn't know better I would say that they have this "rolling" profit model based around imbalance and burst spending. They unbalance things on purpose so players run out and build the latest FOTM class spending cash on it and then BAM its over and on to the next FOTM. Not a sustainable model but certainly a way to make money in the short term.
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