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Official Feedback Thread: Guardian Fighter Changes

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  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    kingcalous wrote: »
    Careful with this, the pugs might see it as a GF thing and get us nerfed so... just be careful. I KNOW you are refering to the enchants, and the enchants are the ONLY problem here, but remember we are dealing with pugs who are still complaining that CW's need buffs soooo....



    CW's that know what they are doing and have decent gear are gonna wreak you, hands down. HR that is good is going to destroy you most of the time aswell, but you'll do alot better for sure. Still no even close to balanced, but due to bugs, I think the concepts are sound. (Except for Block, its a mess, it will always be a mess, it needs to be as it was only slightly buffed. Just like nearly everyone has said on these forums over and over ever since the change was first suggested).



    TI has always done this, its been spoken about and reported countless times in this thread as well as many many others. It has always proned aswell, I never actually noticed if the tooltip says "Stuns" or "Prones" so that may be a bug.

    But seriously? This is what we want them to focus on? Cause they will nerf TI before they fix friggen block, so lets focus on getting fixed before we work on getting ourselves nerfed?

    balance is better. If they is a bug then it needs to be fixed
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Would LOVE it if Entangling Force (Choke) - CWs control power, didnt go through block.

    ALSO, Chill Stacks shouldnt stack on a GF holding block, it pulls us out in 2-3 seconds and were GG after that... Even Villians Mennace has bugs and we HAVE to use it just to stay alive against CWs, once it wears off we die SO fast....


    I know AF will be nerfed, but thats beside the point... HOlding block needs to prevent CC AND Chill Stacks from adding.
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Also Villians menace after the original buff time loses its cc immunity for the extra 4 seconds that is added when you have all 3 ranks of villians. It is really awesome we you get cc'd during this time you are that much larger of a target.
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    CRUSH...


    FEEDBACK: Guard


    Guard is devastatingly poor in pvp, we are continuously cced, rooted, stunned while having guard up! It is literally devastating to our class. We have no immunity but Villains Menace that's a Daily and we are even cced during the animation activating it! PLEASE consider taking a look?
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    CRUSH...


    FEEDBACK: Guard


    Guard is devastatingly poor in pvp, we are continuously cced, rooted, stunned while having guard up! It is literally devastating to our class. We have no immunity but Villains Menace that's a Daily and we are even cced during the animation activating it! PLEASE consider taking a look?

    IM SO FLIPPING SICK OF GETTING PULLED OUT OF BLOCK FROM A CW and CHILL STACKS in TWO SECONDS AND THEN DYING.

    BLOCK IS OUT ONLY SURVIVAL MECHANIC, WE HAVE NO DODGE, NO "SHIELD" like CWs, NO INVIS, NO UNSTOPPABLE/SPRINT.

    WE have ONE thing: BLOCK. Its USELESS AGAINST CWS!!!!! RAY OF FROST -> BAM, Frozen, then Choke and DONE. Dead.

    Tank Class with 53k HP FULL RPOTECTOR in PVP dies in three seconds outside block. block is ALL we have an doesnt even work right.....

    GG.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Block is not only useless in pvp but in dungeons its bad too. without cc immune it makes it harder to survive. In Tos I died for the first time ever lol, I could stand there and tank ads in 99% of the dungeons but in tos I was perma rooted and not even by the webs so I couldn't turn or use powers and I died lol wth ?

    So much for CC immune while guarding.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • xplmao2xplmao2 Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 232 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Am I the only one that is CC immune when blocking or what? Seriously

    Choke does NOT go through my block, neither does any form of CC. I'm dead serious.

    Are you guys Iron Vanguards ? That might be the case perhaps. I'm SwordMaster Conqueror PVP specced and this never happens to me. I thought I've dreamed because my Flourish's stun went through a Vanguard GF's block. Either that or his block was already tired.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    xplmao2 wrote: »
    Am I the only one that is CC immune when blocking or what? Seriously

    Choke does NOT go through my block, neither does any form of CC. I'm dead serious.

    Are you guys Iron Vanguards ? That might be the case perhaps. I'm SwordMaster Conqueror PVP specced and this never happens to me. I thought I've dreamed because my Flourish's stun went through a Vanguard GF's block. Either that or his block was already tired.

    I'm swordmaster pvp spec and yet about 80% of cc in this game goes through my shield, I don't know why I bother using it.

    Next time I kill a gwf player I'm gonna throw this useless shield away and use his sword instead.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • xplmao2xplmao2 Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 232 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    I'm swordmaster pvp spec and yet about 80% of cc in this game goes through my shield, I don't know why I bother using it.

    Next time I kill a gwf player I'm gonna throw this useless shield away and use his sword instead.

    That's weird as hell.

    Does choke really go through your shield? (As well as other CC's). I have a hard time believing that... it's weird as hell. Do you have a video? Block is working just fine for me. (Apart from Chill Stacks which is WAI...)
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    xplmao2 wrote: »
    That's weird as hell.

    Does choke really go through your shield? (As well as other CC's). I have a hard time believing that... it's weird as hell. Do you have a video? Block is working just fine for me. (Apart from Chill Stacks which is WAI...)

    Yes choke can sometimes go through guard but not 100% of the time. But Freeze stacks, rooting, icey rays and even sometimes boar charge and takedown go through shield, its very annoying.

    "Guardian Fighter: Block will now grant CC Immunity while active." Crush said this on page 14 and I have been reading every page (not sure if I missed something) but then the whole guard is bugged because this means NO power in the game should CC us while we guard, I don't care if its a chill strike into our back, it should not control us.

    As for being icey rayed and stuck to the ground while I'm guarding that's just wrong, even ray of frost should not work so the fact that I am being CC by most in game powers is just bs.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    Yes choke can sometimes go through guard but not 100% of the time. But Freeze stacks, rooting, icey rays and even sometimes boar charge and takedown go through shield, its very annoying.

    "Guardian Fighter: Block will now grant CC Immunity while active." Crush said this on page 14 and I have been reading every page (not sure if I missed something) but then the whole guard is bugged because this means NO power in the game should CC us while we guard, I don't care if its a chill strike into our back, it should not control us.

    As for being icey rayed and stuck to the ground while I'm guarding that's just wrong, even ray of frost should not work so the fact that I am being CC by most in game powers is just bs.

    What Crush said is in regard to how the guard used to work versus CC.

    All manner of rooting doesnt guard against it. Only the damage it does. Which is the way guard used to work. However, the choke should not be going through the guard.

    Icy rays, grasping roots and ray of frost have always been the only things that go through guard. Which are roots. And with that I'm fine. Especially since we have normal movement speed while guarding.

    other CC effects like stuns from takedown and prones should not go through shield.

    I havent actually had something that shouldnt go through my guard happen to me personally. but I have seen some GF's get chocked once or twice while seemingly guarding.

    And thats how it should be. Without, there is no actual effective way to combat a GF in any situation.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    What Crush said is in regard to how the guard used to work versus CC.

    All manner of rooting doesnt guard against it. Only the damage it does. Which is the way guard used to work. However, the choke should not be going through the guard.

    Icy rays, grasping roots and ray of frost have always been the only things that go through guard. Which are roots. And with that I'm fine. Especially since we have normal movement speed while guarding.

    other CC effects like stuns from takedown and prones should not go through shield.

    I havent actually had something that shouldnt go through my guard happen to me personally. but I have seen some GF's get chocked once or twice while seemingly guarding.

    And thats how it should be. Without, there is no actual effective way to combat a GF in any situation.

    The game has changed much and one major change is that cw has become a challenge now and I'm fine with that but not me dying in 5 seconds when I have 47k hp and the main reason they kill me easy is because they control me through shield.

    So arrows, melee hits and magic missiles all hit shield or deflect off but a beam of ice goes through the shield ? lol. it just makes pvp stupid, NOTHING should go through shield head on, I am ok with powers like icey rays and roots i guess since they affect your feet but a beam just flying through my guard is stupid since it freezes you then allows the cw to almost instantly kill you.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dzonisa1dzonisa1 Member Posts: 58
    edited August 2014
    And U bother posting this why ?

    I mean they havent been reading this for quite a while, and most important fix they did is fixing invisible wall in DR. Like that was most important issue...
  • kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    dzonisa1 wrote: »
    And U bother posting this why ?

    I mean they havent been reading this for quite a while, and most important fix they did is fixing invisible wall in DR. Like that was most important issue...

    To be fair they fixed the Map Border Graphic in Foundry as well! That was pretty game breaking so I understand why they spend time on this instead of broken class mechanics!
    What Crush said is in regard to how the guard used to work versus CC.

    All manner of rooting doesnt guard against it. Only the damage it does. Which is the way guard used to work. However, the choke should not be going through the guard.

    I don't know where Crush said rooting is supposed to go through shield. Root/Slow is a form of CC by definition, which is why they fixed roots going through GWF's unstoppable quite some time ago. CC immunity and all ya know...

    Regardless, I don't care if I'm rooted for a few seconds, but root can drop your shield, AND you can get frozen (stunned) which makes you unable to take any action. That is not OK on any planet, in any universe, in any way, period.

    On a side note, I do not agree that you should be CC immune while blocking for 360 degrees. If you get hit from behind, and are blocking, you should still take the full CC/Damage. Shield is a Directional defense and should remain that way. That being said if they are going to allow roots to go through shield you should be able to turn so that your shield is directed at, and hence able to block, further incoming attacks. Root should DEFINITELY not prevent you from blocking or make you drop your block.
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If 2 gfs are running Kv rank 3 and rank 2 they get both dr bonuses on their entire team and it covers the entire hotenow dom map and all 3 nodes(from node 2), and on the rivenscar map does this not become a problem

    I said this 70 pages ago KV range needs to be reduced dramatically.

    Different tiers of kv should not grant the different dr bonuses only the highest tier of kv should work

    And there needs to be a cd.

    Plus when 2 kvs are being used at the same time with sos huge fps frame lag ensues making it impossible to play.
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    balance is better. If they is a bug then it needs to be fixed

    I agree 100%! BUT, I'd rather (as I said) have them fix block before they fix TI. I Don't think that being unreasonable, but w/e
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    All I ask if that they fix these stupid Glyph's, rather than nerfing our only ability to tank and help the team out into the ground... and KEEP the Glyph's...

    Glyph's are the reason why no one is pvp'ing..
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    kingcalous wrote: »
    Root should DEFINITELY not prevent you from blocking or make you drop your block.

    Roots do not stop you from blocking or make you drop your block. You're only stuck blocking in one direction for the time being.

    The only thing that makes you drop your block is a full freeze from Ray of Frost. Which the ability itself doesnt inflict, but the status of the freeze inflicts upon the last stacked 7th stack (not 6th) inflicts.

    To the person who spoke of grasping roots doesnt go through unstoppable, unstoppable is a constant break free utility. Block is a preventive. If you're rooted, you dont suddenly break block or any other CC while you're already under the effect.

    The shield and unstoppable do similar things but in different ways. Thats the point. Block can block every CC except roots, and can be used anytime if not already in a CC. GWF's unstoppable is a conditional use, and requires it being built up and/or damage to utilize it, while active all CC is broken, even while already under existing CC effects.

    This is why chill stacks still go on GWF's while thier in unstoppable, but they dont freeze cause unstoppable is a constant CC break free ability.

    Block guards against Slows, stuns, prones, and knockback/push

    the ONLY thing it doesnt guard against is roots and ray of frost (specifically its full stack freeze effect)

    Unstoppable guards and breaks free of CC effect constantly, but is a conditional mechanic.


    And it should be this way, other wise no one can do anything against an advancing GF. It is the ONLY thing a person can do against an advancing GF. And ray of frost needs time to build up to its freeze effect which you can plainly see.

    Without no way of countering that, theres no way to deal with a GF in a tactical realistic scenario. As going behind a GF isnt enough time to do sufficient damage otherwise, cause it takes less than a second to turn. No one should have half seconds of opportunity to do anything to a character at all. Before with the old block mechanic, sure this may seem justified, but with the new mechanic, theres virtually no excuse, you move at normal movement speed while blocking and have a whole lot more control over what you block now and even MORE HP.

    Come on now. Really?

    This is the most balanced the GF ever have and ever will be.
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I like your post! Enthusiasm, spunk, charisma. I agree there are a lot of things that don't lower bock directly.... BUT

    Many of the things you mentioned don't go through our block, however, they take us out of block, thus doing the same thing. Many and I mean many CW, HR abilities slip right through block, based on the fact that it is lowering our shield, and then BAM BAM BAM 75% of our hp is gone, and the thing that took us off block is off cooldown. You probably want examples, but seeing how there has been zero mod feedback in weeks, I would rather wait for them to post and ask what, so I know it may be fixed rather than ensue at an even higher rate than it already is.
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This kills the guardian.
  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    FEEDBACK: Anvil of Doom

    Anvill of Doom sometimes doesn't hit the target, where it be a mob, a player, or a boss it does not matter... Many times trying to finish off a target even if I prone them it misses! It doesn't even register in my combat log.
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    freshour wrote: »
    I like your post! Enthusiasm, spunk, charisma. I agree there are a lot of things that don't lower bock directly.... BUT

    Many of the things you mentioned don't go through our block, however, they take us out of block, thus doing the same thing. Many and I mean many CW, HR abilities slip right through block, based on the fact that it is lowering our shield, and then BAM BAM BAM 75% of our hp is gone, and the thing that took us off block is off cooldown. You probably want examples, but seeing how there has been zero mod feedback in weeks, I would rather wait for them to post and ask what, so I know it may be fixed rather than ensue at an even higher rate than it already is.

    Not only that but many times I'll hit block and think its up and its not? Like I have to smash the block button twice to get it to activate!

    EDIT: In another thread talking about CW icy rays and Entangling Force not being blockable Crush said the following. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?748611-Not-asking-for-any-nerfs!-but-freeze-is-getting-old!&p=8912921&viewfull=1#post8912921

    This is good news as they know GF guard is bugged.
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • rokeachrokeach Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I feel the GF has been gimped in PvP; firstly, at least 3/5 players in PvP is now a ranged (CC'er) player with the introduction of the SW. Secondly, our frontline surge now only stuns, which is a huge disadvantage. Thirdly, the SW gets a ~4/5 sec PRONE which is harder to block than a normal hit.
    PvP is way less enjoyable for me, for the abovementioned reasons. Anyone agrees?
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Nope pvp is awesome cept for red glyphs being a major issue but that should be resolved shortly. also its not hard to block the sw prone you just have to wait out the animation on it and keep yourself facing the sw with block up.
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • lvl99looterlvl99looter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    FEEDBACK: Anvil of Doom

    Anvill of Doom sometimes doesn't hit the target, where it be a mob, a player, or a boss it does not matter... Many times trying to finish off a target even if I prone them it misses! It doesn't even register in my combat log.

    Too help prove his statement, click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_iUf0DBWhU#t=596

    You will see Anvil miss...
  • dufrontdufront Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Upcuming patch from Cryptic: As a note, we have a fix for glyphs no longer triggering from reflective damage sources. I am not yet sure if it will be released next week yet however.

    All classes can benefit from the glyphs. The GFs only way is using reflection damage (guarded assault, supremacy of steel), that's because GF have nothing that can do lots of hits. So basically, this fix is only a nerf for GF.

    Please prevent this from happening as the glyphs were actually balancing out the PVP game surprisingly enough.
  • dufrontdufront Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    dufront wrote: »
    Upcuming patch from Cryptic: As a note, we have a fix for glyphs no longer triggering from reflective damage sources. I am not yet sure if it will be released next week yet however.

    All classes can benefit from the glyphs. The GFs only way is using reflection damage (guarded assault, supremacy of steel), that's because GF have nothing that can do lots of hits. So basically, this fix is only a nerf for GF.

    Please prevent this from happening as the glyphs were actually balancing out the PVP game surprisingly enough.

    What is truly bugged about the GF Knight Valor - Supremacy Of Steel - Red Glyphs combo is the fact that GFs are gaining Actions points from it in a way they can use daylies endlessly. That should be fixed. Also why not put a sec. cool down on the red glyphs? Like the emblem of seldarine fix.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    The gf is gaining ap from KV because of allies, It's either allies dealing dmg, taking dmg or using powers while kv is active on us but that's it.

    The 2 main fixes for pvp is remove ally ap build from kv and nerf glyphs.

    Some people want gf supremacy of steel nerfed or kv to go on cooldown ? this makes no sense since they aren't the problem, just the bugged ap gain is and red glyphs.

    Some want glyphs to work for other classes and not the gf. have you seen a hr or cw using them ? lol hr can do about 100k dmg to a player in 5 seconds with just dot dmg.

    The glyphs are just OP really, that's the MAIN issue, if they was taken out then perma daily wouldn't even be that much of a problem, i still think it needs to be fixed im just saying that the glyphs are the issue that should be fixed and understood first.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • xtraordinary91xtraordinary91 Member Posts: 323 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    The gf is gaining ap from KV because of allies, It's either allies dealing dmg, taking dmg or using powers while kv is active on us but that's it.

    The 2 main fixes for pvp is remove ally ap build from kv and nerf glyphs.

    Some people want gf supremacy of steel nerfed or kv to go on cooldown ? this makes no sense since they aren't the problem, just the bugged ap gain is and red glyphs.

    Some want glyphs to work for other classes and not the gf. have you seen a hr or cw using them ? lol hr can do about 100k dmg to a player in 5 seconds with just dot dmg.

    The glyphs are just OP really, that's the MAIN issue, if they was taken out then perma daily wouldn't even be that much of a problem, i still think it needs to be fixed im just saying that the glyphs are the issue that should be fixed and understood first.

    +1 to this. Fix glyphs first for everyone. ICD the Reds, and the others and then rebalance and adjust from there.
    Desidus@Xtraordinary91
    19.9k PvP Control Wizard
    <Complaints Department>
  • dufrontdufront Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    crixus8000 wrote: »
    The gf is gaining ap from KV because of allies, It's either allies dealing dmg, taking dmg or using powers while kv is active on us but that's it.

    The 2 main fixes for pvp is remove ally ap build from kv and nerf glyphs.

    Some people want gf supremacy of steel nerfed or kv to go on cooldown ? this makes no sense since they aren't the problem, just the bugged ap gain is and red glyphs.

    Some want glyphs to work for other classes and not the gf. have you seen a hr or cw using them ? lol hr can do about 100k dmg to a player in 5 seconds with just dot dmg.

    The glyphs are just OP really, that's the MAIN issue, if they was taken out then perma daily wouldn't even be that much of a problem, i still think it needs to be fixed im just saying that the glyphs are the issue that should be fixed and understood first.

    +1

    May be dont glyphs on your teamates being hit while on knight valor, that would make more sense. This way I can still compete with a HR 1 v 1 both having glyphs. If I loose all reflection on the red glyphs, my gf is doomed*.
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