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Official Feedback Thread: Guardian Fighter Changes

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  • aiulianaiulian Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This really caught my attention... as people said your lying and I just don t have anything else to do than to prove your lying...
    dam182 wrote: »
    http://s13.postimg.org/dfjbfboon/Crushing_Surge.png

    There it is, I used enforced threat to mark, and had 5 stacks of reckless. No into the fray, no challenge. I don't think you should compare crushing surge with aimed shot, the HR would only land 1 tops agains anyone and I'm sure the is someone with double my dps, doing very hi sustained damage. I even remember a video post in the forums in witch the player go lols about CS. Yes, I think its overperforming, cleave has feat backup and deals half the damage, I'll try to post a video comparing it with my noobish destroyer GWF sure strike, I'm almost sure GS outdpses Sure Strike.


    11jy8hc.jpg

    153xjdx.jpg

    You can t hit higher than me no matter what... I outrun you at power, Arm pen and over all GS (let's don take the experience and stuff like that in, keep it at math and numbers)

    Don t make a class OP for no reason.

    I just hope Crush and the devs are testing everything before taking any decision.
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I love for PVE if mark granted reckless. But in PVP - when you mark, it may give you reckless but it also gives HR's wild medicine. CW's if they have briartwine can proc assailing, can build determination on a GWF, and if you mark a TR too close to his dumby you can hit that they get AP?

    - So, sure it could be beneficial to us, but it is also beneficial to the other classes as well. Especially the HR and the GWF. Yeah our at will can hit harder now, but our at wills used to hit like HAMSTER. If you ITF and Knight's Challenge, our at-wills can hit really hard. It wasn't until recently that we can do some single target at will damage IF you use ITF and KC. But you lose more than you know by doing so, and in a pvp setting it would be ridiculous to do so.

    - If we get nerfed based on a set up that will never happen in PVP, and is great for our class in PVE (nothing ever is) - than I can say I won't be playing mod 4. Our Terrifying impact is already nerfed to HAMSTER. It was our one way to get people out of CC immunity. Trying to kite a rogue on a pt if they hit you with a flurry in ITC you used that, takes em out and you get a hit, then it is a race to get another daily before they regen all their life back or kill you. For easy mode GWF's it was a way to stop their unstoppable which with T1 gear was just crazy (i played a GWF to 60 and got the boons just to see for myself).

    - So I understand it being toned down in a sense that everyone else was toned down. But HR's can hit through all DR and our steel defense (why it sucks), and CW's can hit through all DR as well.... So it was never a big deal that it could do that, and only skilled GF's could land it properly anyway. It was more a slap on the wrist saying "Shame on you for using a daily with an itttttttty bitty area, with perfect timing and placement and lead to known someone down"

    - I finally had some time to watch the devs play a little and it was pretty obvious why some things happen. My only wish is if you tone down our at will damage, double the "improved" crushing surge heal, because honestly the rest of our at-will are garbage besides threat rush to close gaps.
  • nuudlznuudlz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback

    Is it WAI that Terrifying Impact ignores all sorts of CC-Immunities?

    Is it WAIt that Terrifying Impact prones and not stuns? (Referring to the tooltip)
    The Zisters' Magazine - Subscribe now and you'll never run out of style.

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  • dam182dam182 Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2014
    Here is the gameplay... as it seems, my gf really is on steroids. Do not know if this is a bug or all GFs in the forums wanna be OP, because of the hard times, but, this really happens. Hope the devs take a look on it, being a bug or not (5,700 at will spamming is just sick).

    Sorry for the software adds, didn't have a recording sof b4

    http://youtu.be/ewo6OuizQwg
  • todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Saw the vid, but I'm not so sure what's so OP about it. :\ My TR hits higher than that per hit with Gloaming Cut and I'm not even stacking power or STR.

    I say enjoy it. :) Crushing Surge is finally the go-to single-target At-Will!
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    BUG!!!!!!

    Profound Armor 4/4 set does NOT increase shield by 30%. It does jack HAMSTER! Just tested a ton of stamina gain items and %s against a "base" as well as the 4/4 armor against a "base" and no difference at all.


    Considering the shield rework... Profound may be VERY strong again if this is fixed. 30% more is pretty darn amazing....
  • lisaxxiilisaxxii Member Posts: 207 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    I do not know if this has been reported, it probably has but I don't feel like sorting through 118 pages.

    BUG: GWF ability Takedown stuns through shield.

    BUG? CW still able to root/cc through GF shield (has been this way forever and I've never really heard it talked about) WAI? if it is it needs to be looked at especially with all the CW buffs coming down the pipeline.

    CW has been pretty strong through this whole process (in PvP) regardless of what their feedback thread has been saying. It has been a matter of gear/build synergies that have just not clicked for the most vocal of CW's in that thread. With the new buffs coming through they are going to be a serious problem for most classes.

    I don't care about most classes :P Just GF and if we can't block their CC... ALL of their CC, its going to be bad news bears.

    Big picture people, look at it :)
    Enemy Team
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    BUG:

    Bull charge can sometimes go through gf shield.

    Takedown goes through gf shield.

    Our shield doesn't always seem to lift up when its pressed.

    Griffons wrath sometimes uses 2 charges instead of 1.

    Almost all CW skills root us through shield.

    Extra stamina from pvp sets isn't working.

    GWF sprint blocks all cc yet gf can still be controlled by a huge amount of powers from all characters and npc's while blocking.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Roots are supposed to go through shield. All other forms of CC are not.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited August 2014
    Hey look at that...all the discussions are gone...

    Do not press reply with quote unless you want your post to disappear...
  • dam182dam182 Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2014
    My only concern about Crushing surge is that it deals more damage in PVP than many encounters in the game. If someone can deal 8k crushing surge critical, its more damage than any ranger encounter, many gwf encounters (exept IBS), and almost all TRs encounters too. For PVE, that kind of single target damage is meaningless, but in pvp, the gf will just hold right click for really good burst damage.
  • killernorekillernore Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    dam182 wrote: »
    My only concern about Crushing surge is that it deals more damage in PVP than many encounters in the game. If someone can deal 8k crushing surge critical, its more damage than any ranger encounter, many gwf encounters (exept IBS), and almost all TRs encounters too. For PVE, that kind of single target damage is meaningless, but in pvp, the gf will just hold right click for really good burst damage.

    lal you see how many hit a CW in pvp/pve?? believe me 1 very very slow at-wil (srs 3 sec to do 3 hits) is the least of your worries...

    I wanna made a CW now because by overpower dmg, crit , dot and very good CC ( very!!) ... Also have the best def and dodge in the game....really the best class on mmorpg

    so...... Yeah crushing surge is too way ovepowered crush take care of that ==

    welcome to the 5 CW partys =D
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback

    Block: Needs to be able to stop chill stacks or else we have no way to counter the perma freeze from cws other than villians menace which is not as easy to get now with ap gain while blocking drastically reduced.
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    I thought my post was feedback it was showing a bug too.

    BUG:

    Our block is meant to stop control effects while active but yet we can be controlled by many many things, being rooted, stunned, or frozen is controlled and that shouldn't be happening while we block.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    dam182 wrote: »
    My only concern about Crushing surge is that it deals more damage in PVP than many encounters in the game. If someone can deal 8k crushing surge critical, its more damage than any ranger encounter, many gwf encounters (exept IBS), and almost all TRs encounters too. For PVE, that kind of single target damage is meaningless, but in pvp, the gf will just hold right click for really good burst damage.


    Crushing Surge is HARD to land, threat rush does little to no damage even with mark, ITF, KC, Tide of Iron *yeah I tested that too* - so please play some pvp man and stop swinging at NPC's that let you hit them. Even with a CW locking an opponent down, at-will especially that one are HARD to land lol, you are sooooooooo slow. You can literally start a swing, he runs off, it misses, I just end up using the threat rush shield stab rotation.

    Can all of these bugs that have been posted be addressed? Like Seriously....

    Admins - Stop deleting posts and email the developers that there is 3454-534590392-34240-92423-2 to the power of 5 million things not working right with or mechanics. Less time deleting posts, more time watching people play, asking for people to show you bugs, taking feedback we give, things like that.

    Might even get more people to spend 75 dollars on the P2W Dragon Born :D
  • dzonisa1dzonisa1 Member Posts: 58
    edited August 2014
    Feedback at block duration (Pve)

    I have no idea how things are in PvP with the block duration, but Pve I was bored. Block up time was around 90% of the time, only time I was not blocking is to use encounter skill, or tide of iron to refresh debuff. With a simple rotation of your encounter and at wills you can have your block metter full all the time.

    In my opinion it should be a resource for your class, to be used smart instead of spamed. Increse base duration but reduce block recovery from encounters and at wills. Especialy Iron warrior. Pop that, put paper weight on your shift button and go afk till party kills the mobs. Tank defense should be more skill based to be fun, not ability strong

    I was also missing last Sharandar boon for stamina regen, prot feat for stam, and didnt use pvp set (though I hear its broken atm)
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    What encounters were you running for PVE? If you run Iron Warrior, ITF, Tide, or enforced threat, you can keep block up a LOT. Granted in a big dungeon taking 20% of the damage adds up, ESPECIALLY when you screw up are low life and try and hold block to not die and it ticks just enough to kill you lol

    But yeah for PVE I usually run ITF, Lunge, and frontline, or flourish, it's all single target but it seems to do enough damage to go down the line. But I have noticed the regular mobs in IWD seem REALLY weak, but if you do the encounters you may notice it isn't AS good, but I know what you mean.

    - also, if you are blocking and shield bashing, your guard meter will be up for a while, but you won't be dealing really any damage :/
  • dzonisa1dzonisa1 Member Posts: 58
    edited August 2014
    I agree, it is mostly about balance and how you play. With my setup though it was a bit extreme, just for testing I had iron warrior, Enforced threat, and Knight valor as encounter powers. Keep in mind with HR buffs it helps getting hit on the same spot, in increses their dps alot siting below Split the sky, and having mobs in Rain of arrows. Just an exsample so your party wont miss your dps, overall it will be higher. I was also reflecting a lot of damage like that.

    It still feels a bit too high imo, though opinions may differ on this subject. I just had no care in the world, find a blue circle on the group, press shift and Chuck Norris mode is On :D
    And it does feel a bit wierd, with shield up now I`m actualy chasing after red spots on the ground and damage for more reflect, instead of trying to avoid it...quite counter-intuitive.

    (As mentioned in my previous post I`m strictly speaking about PvE, and have no idea if the change I sugested would effect PvP)

    I do agree that compared to live GF needed love, but not at the expense of fun, challenge and what makes class unique.
  • lisaxxiilisaxxii Member Posts: 207 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    dam182 wrote: »
    My only concern about Crushing surge is that it deals more damage in PVP than many encounters in the game. If someone can deal 8k crushing surge critical, its more damage than any ranger encounter, many gwf encounters (exept IBS), and almost all TRs encounters too. For PVE, that kind of single target damage is meaningless, but in pvp, the gf will just hold right click for really good burst damage.

    Negative sir. People have even gone so far as to post videos and SS's of CS doing nowhere near that much damage. Well geared power built guys.

    You hit for WAYYYY less in PvP than in PvE so... No you did not get hit by an 8k CS.
    Enemy Team
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Overall game experiance feedback.

    Both tactician and conq path feels solid and offers a wide variation of set ups depending on boss fights, clearing of mobs or pvp.
    The biggest differance is that both IV and SW path can be played offering different advantage depending on playstyle.
    The protector path just dont offers the same utilitys and the gain in defence does not cower the losses in other areas.

    If i compare the damage with my gwf or hr it shines in single target burst but lacks in sustained damage a bit to much.

    Animation wise i think its a bit slow and clumsy if it would be possible to speed up animation for at wills so they dont seem to be effected by lagg every time they start it would help alot.

    Of all classes I played I never missed having a 4th power on your bars much as with the gf, nm how much you try to fit any 3 you are one short as you have to sacrifice either group utility, movement in forms of charge, aoe aggro, cc or pure dam and nm how fun it is to have all options in group pve it feels like you are foced into a buff mode ...

    Powers like ITF in a perfect world be useble outside classfeature or powers as its more a party buff and doesent do much for the gf(beside making him desirable in groups, not a bad thing itself ofc).

    Other suggestions is
    Buff protector path making it worth taking as it is now even the capstone is kinda useless as you dont need it in group dungeons.
    Increase the AP gain for Tactics capstone for the gf with 20-30 % as it is hardly noticeble now.

    I will test some pvp before module 4 next but alot of feedback about that is already done...
  • xujloxujlo Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    what do you recommend: conqueror,protector,tactician?
  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    feedback
    Guardian fighters have no defense against control wizards. We should be able to block chill stacks because their cc's and dps are to high. chill stacks wasn't a problem on live because it was balanced because that was their main way to get to cc a gf but now they do soo much dmg through our guard that guardian fights need to be able to block all control abilities. The devs have created new problems that now demand other chances. The devs have made a bad decision.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    xujlo wrote: »
    what do you recommend: conqueror,protector,tactician?

    Conq path, unless you want to just play pve then you can go for full protector but if you want to be good for solo and pvp too then conq is the best choice with a few feat points spent on other paths like for the 5% deflect chance.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    Guardian fighters have no defense against control wizards. We should be able to block frost stacks because their cc's and dps are to high. Frost stacks wasn't a problem on live because it was balanced because that was their main way to get to cc a gf but now they do soo much dmg through our guard that guardian fights need to be able to block all control abilities. The devs have created new problems that now demand other chances. The devs have made a bad decision.

    That's what I don't get. Crush said we was immune to control effects while guarding yet there is a huge number of powers from both npc's and players that still cc us while we block.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Bug
    Steel defense and Steel grace do not work. Steel grace doesn't work on anything in pvp and it really hurts when it doesnt work against orb of imposition and steel grace on assailant force. Steel defense, dots still kill you. Steel grace doesnt even work on stuns.
  • freshourfreshour Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I recommend waiting for live to launch in a few days before you spend any money whatsoever on the game.

    - Guardians have probably 20 bugs/fixes that need to be done before they are really playable.
    - CW's need damage cut in half or more, or any pvp with 2 cw's is going to be so frustrating you drop out
    - HR's need WM toned down
    - GWF's need something that doesn't make them EZ mode, but does make them worth a ****.


    - We just have so many feat bugs, things that don't work, things that sorta work, block doesn't work a lot of the time, sometimes it just doesn't come up, I feel 10x slower, moves like frontline are worthless now, griffon's loses charges when you shield cancel, no other move does, steel defense (only reason for going swordsmaster) is bugged doesn't work most of the time, and gets hit through it with a lot, idk.. the list goes on for days.

    - Just wait it out for a week or two and see if the mess can be fixed, we've posted all the bugs on here, so it'll just be when Crush can get to fixing them, otherwise I can foresee 60-70% of the pvp community is going to be gone in the first week, at least for a while, I myself have heard this from at least 15-20 players who've been here since the beginning
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I recommend waiting for live to launch in a few days before you spend any money whatsoever on the game.

    - Guardians have probably 20 bugs/fixes that need to be done before they are really playable.
    - CW's need damage cut in half or more, or any pvp with 2 cw's is going to be so frustrating you drop out
    - HR's need WM toned down
    - GWF's need something that doesn't make them EZ mode, but does make them worth a ****.


    - We just have so many feat bugs, things that don't work, things that sorta work, block doesn't work a lot of the time, sometimes it just doesn't come up, I feel 10x slower, moves like frontline are worthless now, griffon's loses charges when you shield cancel, no other move does, steel defense (only reason for going swordsmaster) is bugged doesn't work most of the time, and gets hit through it with a lot, idk.. the list goes on for days.

    - Just wait it out for a week or two and see if the mess can be fixed, we've posted all the bugs on here, so it'll just be when Crush can get to fixing them, otherwise I can foresee 60-70% of the pvp community is going to be gone in the first week, at least for a while, I myself have heard this from at least 15-20 players who've been here since the beginning

    make it 16-21
  • killernorekillernore Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:

    Plate agility : can change the 5% of deflect for 20 % critical dmg reduce. will be a big point for protector path

    Grit/ Take Mesure /shielded resurgence need increment the amount of THP to 4/8/12 % and redcuce the CD

    Enduring warrior rework them whit every time you block can recovery 0.50%/0.75%/1% of max HP or every time you use a daily recover 4/8/12% of max hit points
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    freshour wrote: »
    I can foresee 60-70% of the pvp community is going to be gone in the first week, at least for a while, I myself have heard this from at least 15-20 players who've been here since the beginning

    Pretty much nobody left because of pathfinder selfhealing HRs, Roar spam GWFs or instadeaths from TR SE when it was bugged.

    Hardly anybody will leave because of CWs now. Not to mention Storm Spell will be nerfed soon. Wild Medicine is in a good place, considering no more Constrictive and good Archery PvP spec, and the significant damage/CC increase from CW/GF. HRs need to be able to deal with that.
  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: Knight Challenge

    I do not like KC being toggleable... I think it's a high risk high reward ability that once challenged the opposition in the challenge should have the ability to also use the buff called forth!

    Thus Knights Challenge! Not Knight Challenges you, hits you hard! and turns buff / debuff off and lols at you.
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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