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Let's talk AD sinks...

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  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No sinks needed, just proper coding and banning exploiters/deleting their AD from the game.
  • stah01stah01 Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You can dye offhand weapons now, not sure that is a good sink. And mainhand doesnt matter since you have your weapon effect. I'd pay to turn that off though.
    GShBCGl.jpg
  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    khimera906 wrote: »
    If we're talking about removing AD from the market, I think there should be a cap on how many characters you can farm Leadership on. Nothing too harsh, of course, and I hate to suggest a nerf, but I think it would help make a better future for the game ... Please don't kill me!

    Absolutely the worst idea so far, which will penalise legitimate players and legitimate "whales" like me to absolutely zero benefit. I don't think you understand what the problem actually is at all.


    I am late middle-aged, as is most of my Guild. Our oldest guild member is 84 years old, the youngest 47.

    I had 2 free characters when starting this game in February.

    I now have 12 characters and two free slots. One free slot came from the Knight of the Feywild pack, the other from the recent First Time Buyers promotion. The other 10 character slots I bought with Zen. Some of this Zen I got for AD at 379 to 386 AD per Zen, but most of them I bought with Zen I paid for with real-world money.

    Two characters are my Main Characters and they have all the Enchants, the Grim and Profound gear from PvP, three Purple Artefacts, five Purple Companions and the best Gear I could afford from the AH when they did not come in Epic dungeon drops. They are getting all the Sharandar and Dread Ring Boons and just went to IWD for the first time so I can do the Vault of the Nine for the class-specific artefact. Just upgrading the Companions cost me millions and millions of AD.

    The other 10 characters are in the 50s, except one that is level 60, and they are all Leadership Mules.

    I re-organised their Professions during the Gond Event, and I now have them doing two Class-specific professions in two slots so I can unlock the "Three Professions at Level 20" slots: DC = Artificer and Mailsmith, GF = Platesmith and Weaponsmith, TR = Leatherworker and Weaponsmith etc etc. All the other Slots are for Leadership for the AD.

    ALL 12 characters have at least one Profession at Level 20, ALL have done the 100% Speed task etc.

    I browse the Auction House, sell high quality stuff I get from lock boxes, buy cheap Blue Gear for my characters below level 60, farm all the Skirmishes, do all the Arena PvP events etc.

    I also bought Wards during the Ward Sale, many, many, many Retraining Tokens, many Shared Bank Slots, many personal bank slots and a great many Enchanted Keys

    Although it is a steady income stream, Leadership AD is actually relatively poor. Most comes from Lockbox items I sell:
    • Thayan Book of the Dead = 3 million
    • Other Artefacts = up to 1 million
    • Brilliant Diamond = 2.5 million
    • Apparatus of Kwalish = 500k
    • Necklace of the Xvim = 300k
    • Mulhorand Items = between 25 and 400k

    etc etc etc

    There is almost NOTHING in the Zen Market I would ever buy, except the things I already mentioned - training, appearance and character slot tokens, bank slots, Enchanted Keys etc. Lockboxes and the AH is the source of all stuff I need that does not drop, and I make very liberal use of the AD Sinks such as Upgrading Companions and unlocking the Dread Ring and Sharandar campaigns.


    I play this game properly and legitimately, and I also spend real money on Zen. Your suggestion would have zero effect on the broken economy. Although I farm AD as much as I can, when I look at how much real-world cash I have spent on Zen, it's frightening.


    So I hope you can see how far off the mark your suggestion is.

    The problem with the economy is the coding of the game which reproduced the same exploits as in other games:

    Thank god they FINALLY put a stop to most of these things.
    • Posting an AH bid in negative AD, cancelling it and it returns AD you had not placed. Repeat over and over and over for several hours
    • Emptying a chest of Rank 5 enchants, reloading the character and doing it again as the chest had respawned, over and over and over again.
    • Duplicating Ioun Stones using some bank slot glitch or other
    • Duplicating Cats on Caturday the same way
    • The recent Astral Resonator Infinite AD exploit
    • Bot Characters, programmed to farm all the Professions nodes and chests on a map, then change instance and do it again, over and over over;
    • Bot Characters, programmed to farm all the Skirmish events and PvP events over and over and over
    • 3rd party sites selling AD, Gold, Enchants, Keys and Wards
    • 3rd party programmes that create AD and Zen on an account that can be transferred to another


    THESE are the problems with the Neverwinter economy, NOT ME having 12 characters doing Leadership. I have never used these exploits at all. I would not know how.



    One way that might help stop Bots is every time you log in, change character or change Map Instance, you have to manually type in some visual recognition code.


    Cheers

    ~
  • doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yeah, AD sinks do give a return to the sender otherwise they wouldn't buy them.
    The only thing a sink has to do is flush currency out of the system.

    Teleport scrolls, cosmetic changes, etc. Those are the perfect AD sinks.

    Problem with what we already have is there is an extra zero on basically everything which pushes people to never use them. For instance PE Teleport scrolls. I would gladly buy a few if there were 400 but not at 4,000.

    Because that is the other requirement of AD sinks. Many should be almost impulse buys so that everybody is willing to purchase them. If the sinks are priced too high, especially in this system where you get 10x better deals from spending Zen than AD, people will not spend money on the sinks.

    Nice to see a moderator actually agree with perspectives here, too bad you guys can't influence the developers enough to at least give this a try and drop the price for a month or something to see how the people end up using them. I for one would change my gear looks a lot more if the price wasn't 50k per piece, now if it were 50/4 then i'd probably spend my AD on it. I buy dyes on sale a lot but pretty much never otherwise (use those in-game coupons often for this purpose).
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,492 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A good AD sink must be
    * Offering something unique only available from the sink that is worth blowing AD on
    * Be non-permanent, otherwise people will be done with it quickly
    * Aimed at the richest people, since those at lower AD needs the AD for other purposes
    * Not too unbalancing in favor of those that can afford to use it

    I would suggest a 3% damage increase potion for this purpose.

    This is good enough that people would use it, yet not good enough to completely invalidate those that cannot use it.
    Price it at 100k AD per 24 hours real time.. that should eat up AD fast.
    Only available through Wondrous Bazaar.
  • jrfbrunetjrfbrunet Member Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No sinks needed, just proper coding and banning exploiters/deleting their AD from the game.

    Agree 100%. This thread and what it represents is a total waste of time.
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  • jintortlejintortle Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    companion dye kits would be good - you could all have them a uniformed colour! *not US spelling!
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  • wanderer0000wanderer0000 Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    stop trying to **** honest players even more and just admit the game is plagued by exploiters since last module and thats what making everything iimpossible, stop trying to take out honest ways of making ad, it is already hard doenst matter how many char slots you have...
  • mircalla83mircalla83 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 36
    edited August 2014
    A good AD sink must be
    * Offering something unique only available from the sink that is worth blowing AD on
    * Be non-permanent, otherwise people will be done with it quickly
    * Aimed at the richest people, since those at lower AD needs the AD for other purposes
    * Not too unbalancing in favor of those that can afford to use it

    I would suggest a 3% damage increase potion for this purpose.

    This is good enough that people would use it, yet not good enough to completely invalidate those that cannot use it.
    Price it at 100k AD per 24 hours real time.. that should eat up AD fast.
    Only available through Wondrous Bazaar.

    Sink is pointless. The Whales do not play the game, they play the Auction House. It also WILL end up being required by PvE groups, since 3% on some classes IS significant. Congratulations on turning the game into 'Sell Zen to get invited to PvE teams'.
  • serpinecohserpinecoh Member Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    To me the best way to flush AD out of the system would be to *discount* mount and companion upgrades. Right now a lot of people have only a very small number of purple mounts / companions, the ones they use all the time, and in many cases those started at that quality. They might want more of them in top condition so they can swap around based on mood / need, but the cost is to prohibitive to even bother. If the costs were reduced however (perhaps apply a scaling discount based on how many you already have at purple, since if you already have fully upgraded ones this does become a cosmetic choice) it could be more tempting to burn off AD on a wider range of creatures.
  • anharmonanharmon Member Posts: 175
    edited August 2014
    serpinecoh wrote: »
    To me the best way to flush AD out of the system would be to *discount* mount and companion upgrades. Right now a lot of people have only a very small number of purple mounts / companions, the ones they use all the time, and in many cases those started at that quality. They might want more of them in top condition so they can swap around based on mood / need, but the cost is to prohibitive to even bother. If the costs were reduced however (perhaps apply a scaling discount based on how many you already have at purple, since if you already have fully upgraded ones this does become a cosmetic choice) it could be more tempting to burn off AD on a wider range of creatures.

    Like many things, the mount/companion upgrades have the potential to be AD sinks but are too expensive (such as PE teleport scrolls). I think this could be a good AD sink -- if the price was cut to 1/4 or even less.

    I think a problem really is whether or not such AD sinks will help. They'll drain AD all right, but from the right people?
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,492 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    mircalla83 wrote: »
    Sink is pointless. The Whales do not play the game, they play the Auction House. It also WILL end up being required by PvE groups, since 3% on some classes IS significant. Congratulations on turning the game into 'Sell Zen to get invited to PvE teams'.

    Actually, what the whales do do not matter very much. It is what the overall community does that matters. If we get the incoming/outgoing AD balance under control, the whales will be affected as well by lowered prices and less demand as the size of the AD pool shrinks.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Actually, what the whales do do not matter very much. It is what the overall community does that matters. If we get the incoming/outgoing AD balance under control, the whales will be affected as well by lowered prices and less demand as the size of the AD pool shrinks.

    Not exactly true, perhaps even actually false.

    Serious issues arise when a single player has enough AD to manipulate markets, and so even if the incoming/outgoing ad balance was made under control, the players who (legally or otherwise) have huge amounts of Ad will be able to continue setting the prices for high end items in the Ah, perhaps even more so than now.
  • calvin1tagcalvin1tag Member Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    amvek wrote: »
    FYI the latest AD exploit has been happening since mod 2 and was creating about 50k Astral diamonds not rough AD every few seconds!

    Wow!! Since module 2 that is just insane I heard people were making around 7 million a minute so to have that around for that many months there must be billions upon billions of exploited AD in the game right now... so very sad how on earth can they fix something this broken with out some kind of massive roll back...
  • lwedarlwedar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    calvin1tag wrote: »
    Wow!! Since module 2 that is just insane I heard people were making around 7 million a minute so to have that around for that many months there must be billions upon billions of exploited AD in the game right now... so very sad how on earth can they fix something this broken with out some kind of massive roll back...

    Roll back to when? Mod 2?!
    "we all love this game and want it to thrive"
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    mconosrep wrote: »
    Not exactly true, perhaps even actually false.

    Serious issues arise when a single player has enough AD to manipulate markets, and so even if the incoming/outgoing ad balance was made under control, the players who (legally or otherwise) have huge amounts of Ad will be able to continue setting the prices for high end items in the Ah, perhaps even more so than now.

    If the overall community will have some other, fun ways to spend AD, they'll be less willing to buy overpriced stuff from AH.
    calvin1tag wrote: »
    Wow!! Since module 2 that is just insane I heard people were making around 7 million a minute so to have that around for that many months there must be billions upon billions of exploited AD in the game right now... so very sad how on earth can they fix something this broken with out some kind of massive roll back...

    Rollback to when mod2 started? How many months would it be? In other words, this is out of question.
  • two30two30 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,168 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    two30 wrote: »
    Sell lottery tickets (or "boxes") in the Wondrous Bazaar for 24K Astral Diamonds. The prizes can vary over time.

    That's basically the upcoming Mysterious Egg event, although for a limited-time and at an unknown price.

    Since the Mysterious Egg event actually did drop the ZAX ratio below 500 (briefly), the viability of my suggestion has been demonstrated. More AD lottery tickets please.
    Neverwinter Tools for evaluating boons, mounts, dyes, etc.
  • mircalla83mircalla83 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 36
    edited August 2014
    two30 wrote: »
    Since the Mysterious Egg event actually did drop the ZAX ratio below 500 (briefly), the viability of my suggestion has been demonstrated. More AD lottery tickets please.

    Sadly, Whales won't bite unless it can be sold on the Auction House. So Whales get fatter, rest goes broke, since Whales can do proportionally more rolls at the fat prizes. They only jumped at the Egg because the Companions could be sold.
  • harkurharkur Member Posts: 305 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    maegmaag wrote: »
    The whole AD issue is the 24k RAD refinement limit per character. Make it per account and twill settle (or even double it as long as its per account).
    Mount/companions fashion addons wont hurt, maybe some armors for mounts/companions as well ).

    No, people will just create NN accounts to make up for it. That's already happening with Leadership
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    harkur wrote: »
    No, people will just create NN accounts to make up for it. That's already happening with Leadership

    Making AD with leadership requires time and effort. I know it is hard to belive for people who have 2 chars, but belive me, with 20 of them it becomes a hard work. Anything more than 10 and you need to make a saving throw against tedium. And it is even worse if those chars are on different accounts.
  • mircalla83mircalla83 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 36
    edited August 2014
    ulviel wrote: »
    Making AD with leadership requires time and effort. I know it is hard to belive for people who have 2 chars, but belive me, with 20 of them it becomes a hard work. Anything more than 10 and you need to make a saving throw against tedium. And it is even worse if those chars are on different accounts.

    Guess why people are asking for a 'Collect and restart all' for the Gateway, since around the time it popped up the first time.
  • linoge63linoge63 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yeah, AD sinks do give a return to the sender otherwise they wouldn't buy them.
    The only thing a sink has to do is flush currency out of the system.

    Teleport scrolls, cosmetic changes, etc. Those are the perfect AD sinks.

    Problem with what we already have is there is an extra zero on basically everything which pushes people to never use them. For instance PE Teleport scrolls. I would gladly buy a few if there were 400 but not at 4,000.

    Because that is the other requirement of AD sinks. Many should be almost impulse buys so that everybody is willing to purchase them. If the sinks are priced too high, especially in this system where you get 10x better deals from spending Zen than AD, people will not spend money on the sinks.

    You might consider closing this now as you nailed it as perfectly as a nail could ever nail anything
  • deus69xxxdeus69xxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Should try permanent good things, such as 500k AD for 1 additional stat point (not base stats, things like power, recovery etc) with a cap of 100 points each. 100 points is kinda like an extra lame *** ring slot, and at 1 point each, it'll empty AD stores, buff the spenders, and be available to everyone, technically. 'Short' term fix as after maxing all of them, they can rake in cash again, but the initial spending frenzy for bonus stats from those with spare AD laying around would flush things nicely.

    The point being missed by all sinks, is they will not affect the economy in a drastic way, because people will charge MORE on the AH to use these sinks. The best fix for the economy is a change to the AH placing a cap on how high things can be posted for with a zen-ad ratio math session, and have it sit like that 4-6 months WITH an AD sink. And FIXING DUNGEON CHESTS! The inability to get things with any kind of regularity drives prices up because people think they can get more because less are showing up. There needs to be competitiveness, or the market gets monopolized, and the ability of free to players being able to give those people the middle finger by farming things themselves.

    Someone mentioned BoPing everything, and while that would be wrong, it would address another thing that affects AD sink useage, and that's dungeon loot system. they SHOULD bind anything that's needed on, and change dungeon kicks to be disabled after loot has been clicked and shows for rolling. That allows individuals to not be able to group up and corner something by ninja/jerk kicks, which spreads wealth to feed into sinks. Real easy solution to things, and everyone misses them because it might affect them =/
  • jubeibehelitjubeibehelit Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You listed many of the exploint, lleft out the One hit PK Glitching though.
    Absolutely the worst idea so far, which will penalise legitimate players and legitimate "whales" like me to absolutely zero benefit. I don't think you understand what the problem actually is at all.


    I am late middle-aged, as is most of my Guild. Our oldest guild member is 84 years old, the youngest 47.

    I had 2 free characters when starting this game in February.

    I now have 12 characters and two free slots. One free slot came from the Knight of the Feywild pack, the other from the recent First Time Buyers promotion. The other 10 character slots I bought with Zen. Some of this Zen I got for AD at 379 to 386 AD per Zen, but most of them I bought with Zen I paid for with real-world money.

    Two characters are my Main Characters and they have all the Enchants, the Grim and Profound gear from PvP, three Purple Artefacts, five Purple Companions and the best Gear I could afford from the AH when they did not come in Epic dungeon drops. They are getting all the Sharandar and Dread Ring Boons and just went to IWD for the first time so I can do the Vault of the Nine for the class-specific artefact. Just upgrading the Companions cost me millions and millions of AD.

    The other 10 characters are in the 50s, except one that is level 60, and they are all Leadership Mules.

    I re-organised their Professions during the Gond Event, and I now have them doing two Class-specific professions in two slots so I can unlock the "Three Professions at Level 20" slots: DC = Artificer and Mailsmith, GF = Platesmith and Weaponsmith, TR = Leatherworker and Weaponsmith etc etc. All the other Slots are for Leadership for the AD.

    ALL 12 characters have at least one Profession at Level 20, ALL have done the 100% Speed task etc.

    I browse the Auction House, sell high quality stuff I get from lock boxes, buy cheap Blue Gear for my characters below level 60, farm all the Skirmishes, do all the Arena PvP events etc.

    I also bought Wards during the Ward Sale, many, many, many Retraining Tokens, many Shared Bank Slots, many personal bank slots and a great many Enchanted Keys

    Although it is a steady income stream, Leadership AD is actually relatively poor. Most comes from Lockbox items I sell:
    • Thayan Book of the Dead = 3 million
    • Other Artefacts = up to 1 million
    • Brilliant Diamond = 2.5 million
    • Apparatus of Kwalish = 500k
    • Necklace of the Xvim = 300k
    • Mulhorand Items = between 25 and 400k

    etc etc etc

    There is almost NOTHING in the Zen Market I would ever buy, except the things I already mentioned - training, appearance and character slot tokens, bank slots, Enchanted Keys etc. Lockboxes and the AH is the source of all stuff I need that does not drop, and I make very liberal use of the AD Sinks such as Upgrading Companions and unlocking the Dread Ring and Sharandar campaigns.


    I play this game properly and legitimately, and I also spend real money on Zen. Your suggestion would have zero effect on the broken economy. Although I farm AD as much as I can, when I look at how much real-world cash I have spent on Zen, it's frightening.


    So I hope you can see how far off the mark your suggestion is.

    The problem with the economy is the coding of the game which reproduced the same exploits as in other games:

    Thank god they FINALLY put a stop to most of these things.
    • Posting an AH bid in negative AD, cancelling it and it returns AD you had not placed. Repeat over and over and over for several hours
    • Emptying a chest of Rank 5 enchants, reloading the character and doing it again as the chest had respawned, over and over and over again.
    • Duplicating Ioun Stones using some bank slot glitch or other
    • Duplicating Cats on Caturday the same way
    • The recent Astral Resonator Infinite AD exploit
    • Bot Characters, programmed to farm all the Professions nodes and chests on a map, then change instance and do it again, over and over over;
    • Bot Characters, programmed to farm all the Skirmish events and PvP events over and over and over
    • 3rd party sites selling AD, Gold, Enchants, Keys and Wards
    • 3rd party programmes that create AD and Zen on an account that can be transferred to another


    THESE are the problems with the Neverwinter economy, NOT ME having 12 characters doing Leadership. I have never used these exploits at all. I would not know how.



    One way that might help stop Bots is every time you log in, change character or change Map Instance, you have to manually type in some visual recognition code.


    Cheers

    ~
    Be mindful not to complain or spam about the cheaters, explopioters, and spammers. You will get warned and banned. Punish the legit, promote the illegit.
  • dragoness10dragoness10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    : points:

    Wonderous Bazaar Weekly Sale - Thread here - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?703501-Wonderous-Bazaar-weekly-sale

    Perfect AD sink.

    Also neck slot Fashion Items.
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  • iandarkswordiandarksword Member Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A. Why do people "need" 10 or more characters other than for income purposes? Perhaps if prices overall were more affordable, people wouldn't need so many "AD Bank" characters. This shows an influx of characters that aren't "playing the game as it is intended" rather being used to accumulate and store currency. Maintaining that many characters seems quite tedious and must detract from the overall experience of playing the game. Make characters eligible to "level up" only by completing in game quests, not through invocation alone, as it is currently capable. That way people have to participate to get experience, hence earning it. If anything, drop the experience earned through invocation to dismal levels (200-500XP). Link profession levels to character level. Hence a level 30 character would only be able to reach level 10 profession tasks, but others would unlock as both the character and profession experience progressed. (This already happens somewhat.)
    B. Why not move Coalescent Wards to the Wondrous Bazaar but make multiple packs remain on the Zen Market? They are critical for weapon/armor enchant upgrades. Making them more accessible at a comparable rate with the current Zen Market (500K AD) would siphon some of the inflation away from the auction house and alleviate some of the hoarding taking place to purchase them on the AH, as people are more apt to spend at the Bazaar. Increase the drop rate of Coalescent Wards in Coffers (both Acrane and Wondrous).
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  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    calvin1tag wrote: »
    Wow!! Since module 2 that is just insane I heard people were making around 7 million a minute so to have that around for that many months there must be billions upon billions of exploited AD in the game right now... so very sad how on earth can they fix something this broken with out some kind of massive roll back...

    A lot of people got away with the Caturday stuff too.

    There are literally billions of exploited AD out there that has been passed on to 3rd party sites and back to innocent players buying stacks of rank 5s.

    Are people suggesting we roll back to open-beta?
  • darkeye85darkeye85 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Are people suggesting we roll back to open-beta?

    no, end of story.

    now it seems that the only up for this game rest on consoles. I wouldn't be surprise if they abandon the PC players when the game launches on console. with all the **** that is going on right now, consoles might be their only salvation.
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