Renegade without the old Eye of the Storm = dead Renegade.
This!
Changing Renegade cap stone from de-buffs to decreased ICD on EotS (and decreased Casting time and CD in generall on at wills, dailies and encounters I should add, since on preview you can doze off waiting for encounters to cool down) would be a cap stone to look after.
Because, lets face it, Renegades on live don't go Renegade for awesome capstone. For me the only positive was buffing MM, but after changes it will be debuffs only for which nobody cares (Renes themselves including). It's damage from Crit Chance combined with Cha combined with Combat advantage that makes Renegade appealing.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Hey all, we are making a bunch of buffs to Paragon class features that were under performing and making Eye of the Storm easier to use. Additionally we want to address player concerns about Shard of the Endless Avalanche and reinforce its intent as part of a Wizard's kit.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
These changes should make all of these class features more attractive to Wizards of all trees and improve the usage of them in most cases.
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
thanky you gentlemencrush for turning Control wizard into a skill-less DPS race with assailing force and shield on tab. thank you for killing renegade, thank you for Officially killing shard CW. it took skill to use shard properly in pvp, and it doing 500-1k dmg is purely unacceptable. especially since the "increased" prone time is still nothing when it can be reduced by effects such as cc resist. you could of reduced the prone to the mimimum .66s of the animation and left the damage the same, and capped targets at 5, and reduced damage even 90% at more then 5 objects hit, but no. you had to go kill it completely. great work.
Hey all, we are making a bunch of buffs to Paragon class features that were under performing and making Eye of the Storm easier to use. Additionally we want to address player concerns about Shard of the Endless Avalanche and reinforce its intent as part of a Wizard's kit.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
These changes should make all of these class features more attractive to Wizards of all trees and improve the usage of them in most cases.
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thumbs down regarding the shard. I guess all CWs now have to use the same build/spells because the shard is not good enough. Thx for ignoring our wishes.
Going from the hardest class to play in PvP to the easiest. Standing still and letting assailing force do the job sounds fun... And the class powers wont do much (except for Eye) because now we just have to decide between orb of imposition and Storm Spell, it wont actually change anything in PvP because we have to remove something to gain something else.
Its not a buff in PvP, just another choice and we will still struggle in PvP.
And one more thing.
"We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc)."
You are sooo wrong. We had renegade CWs and Shard CWs. Now we only have Thaum CWs and nobody will use the shard anymore. People DID NOT feel like using shard was necessary in PvP. But now we do feel its necessary to use Thauma.
Also this sounds stupid:
"It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices)."
Because you are doing the exact opposite. You are forcing all CWs to use the same spells and same tree.
"we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances."
It was only great when you had the skill to use it and its one of the harder spell to use in PvP in this game.
Heres some feedback: How about you actually listen to your community, instead of completely disregarding everything being said. i can tell you a game that the devs did the same thing. runescape. it was popular for 10years with over 500k players online at one time, they changed their combat system completely, ruined pvp. and guess what. that number of online players at one time. dropped to 50k.
you need to listen to your community for once, post polls about what the player wants instead of what is best for your pocket. so listen to us. nearly all the good pvp cws in the game have posted in the last 10 pages, asking for a shard buff and complaining about how you are changing cw. no one wants to play a skill-less class that relys on a capstone proc to beat people. Revert all your changes and leave CWs the way they are right now.
Hey all, we are making a bunch of buffs to Paragon class features that were under performing and making Eye of the Storm easier to use. Additionally we want to address player concerns about Shard of the Endless Avalanche and reinforce its intent as part of a Wizard's kit.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
These changes should make all of these class features more attractive to Wizards of all trees and improve the usage of them in most cases.
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
The only thing that really made shard such an effective skill (on tab in pvp) is how the cw is using it. Although the damage was good, it is now below adequate compared to the single target skill that you are trying to keep it in line with, it it hitting below average in all cases compared to the other skills. I understand the need to keep all abilities more in like but the damage on preview now is just too low to be used for anything. The prone doesn't even matter if you can't deal damage while they are proned, although it now becomes a good utility for team battles. Don't take our annoyance for putting shard in the grave to think we aren't thankful for the other buffs you guys have given back to the CWs, but shard really was the ability that kept CWs competative in PvP, and now we have to find new ways of playing PvP, for better or worse. ( probably worse )
Rest in peace control wizard. I guess the one class that you want to be op as fk and that you want everyone to obviously play HR since you are continually bufifng it, when it can already live forever and kill people in 2 encounters.
Listen to the cw community. we want shard back. it is not "too op" if you really think that then nerf the amount of targets it can hit. PVE cws are the problem not pvp. so please learn what is wrong with your game for once
Most CWs can't even use shard on tab in pvp anyway. It's definitely fun to use and devastating when it works, but with these other buffs I think CWs are going to be in great shape for PVP (and PVE, as usual).
I don't think many PVP CWs would be happy with that either.
i can guarentee you that meldanen, virus, zeng, spastic doge, allt, sobek, all the great pvp cws that opinions actually matter. would love the cw class to be reverted back to as it is now.
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kriszbMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
There were so many simple ways to fix shard, you shoved it into the ground, and smashed it with a sledgehammer. you say that the +3s prone duration is enough to compensate for more then 75% of a damage nerf, well its not. it is now the most useless encounter a cw could use. i would do better off with shield on tab and wreck people with single target and assailing force.
heres some simple math for you because you seem to like simple things.
- assailing force does 4.5k damage every 5 seconds. shard of endless avalanch was only useful on tab so thats 12s cooldown with profound set 15.4s cooldown without profound set. shard of endless avalanche on a completely geared character does about 10k damage if its crits. (with pvorp) sometimes less. in 10s assailing force does 9k unmitigatable damage. in 15s, it does 13.5k unmitigatable damage. so at most, the thaum capstone is on par with profound set shard, and is 35% better than shard if not using profound set.
on top of that, shard has it hit its target and explode in order to do that damage, you can miss, you can get CC'd and have it disappear which completely wastes it for 12-15s whereas assailing is a guarenteed hit. nothing you can do can prevent it from dealing that 4.5kdmg every 5s.
so overall it is better to have shard as it is, then to leave assailing in.
Feedback : New Changes Announcement / Sudden Storm
Good changes for PvE cws, consider changing the AOE of Sudden Storm,so it's easier to target, not so great for PvP cws it seems. I only have 1 character,a cw, and really don't PvP at all due to ,in part,the ugly fate Cws face in PvP. So i only have one question for the Devs : Can you honestly say these PvE oriented changes can balance and minimize the hard times cws have at PvP?
Oh great. Now I have to choose between PVE or PVP damage. So what? Repec feats to do some domination and then respec again to do a dungeon? Why are you forcing us to choose PVE or PVP?
Ever since tenacity was introduced and separate pvp armor sets,it was only a matter of time before you had pvp and pve powers. It is crystal clear that this is cryptics adamant intent. So no reason getting into that discussion.
Yes, where are the patch notes. I have a feeling that 20s EotS ICD won't solve a thing, though gotta test it. Because the casting time is increased and cool down time is increased for many spells, the - 5 second on EotS won't help much. If it was 5-10 s. ICD I'd consider taking it. But there are many other feats that have no ICD and are either constantly presenting chance to deal additional damage, have CC longer or buff aoe encounters all the time. Which makes them far more appealing then EotS still.
Plus this ICD is INVISIBLE, we cannot measure when will it be gone, so that we can use encounters and not waste EotS on at wills! This issue has been brought up few times already.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Hey all, we are making a bunch of buffs to Paragon class features that were under performing and making Eye of the Storm easier to use. Additionally we want to address player concerns about Shard of the Endless Avalanche and reinforce its intent as part of a Wizard's kit.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
These changes should make all of these class features more attractive to Wizards of all trees and improve the usage of them in most cases.
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
1 first thanks for the reply at least i now feel that you are aware of the problem of the actual CW on the previous server and that what ever we (players) and you have differents view for solve it. at least now that if feel like the actual CW (without counting your last change) is not the final version.
2 shard point; i understand your view and i can say you that this power is actually useless (on previous) 1 it less damage than the actual steal time you find and 2 it already a quite frusrtating feat that i actually only use in my slot because it does damage and that the only reason since it is so much bugged (does not launch and especially when there is some lag, does not explode, can be move by some mob power, disapear when controled and if i'm based on the actual damage i'm able to get with, it more or less 3k per target with max 5 target). If this spell is so problematic don't buff , don't nerf : change it make a complete new spell . Honestly in pvp i'm not using it, too hard to control and too easy to counter. i even take habit when i face an other CW that use that to just wait him invoc shard to control him since he can't move and it make shard disapear (generaly this CW unslot it for the rest of the battle).
for now measuring new change i need to test it before making comment.
By the way thanks for hear at least the fact that we are in the bottom of the sea and that is a problem you are working on
Also something that really can help us to test is to have a statment of the change but also what are the incomming change that are not yet on the previous server. i saw lot of comment that are based on false or more often on old version of previous and that especialy about PVP point (what ever the class). I'm sure it is something that can help every one. (if it exist just says me where)
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gilimyrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Focused Wizardry: Now increases single target damage by 10/20/30% but reduces AoE damage by 30/20/10%.
Any chance this could be put on a power like Evocation, rather than a feat? A feat is permanent and basically forces us to spec for either PvP or PvE. By putting it on a power, it would provide the option for changing PvP/PvE focus by switching powers around.
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I like the changes, the shard change though...LOL the skill was bugged already and you guys never fixed it - instead you destroyed it. I...just...don't...understand. Shard was so much fun too, RIP
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I must've missed where it's up to 6 seconds now. I thought it was 4 at max rank. Yeah it's a huge buff.
Not only do you get to start with guaranteed crits, but once you get used to the timing, you can actually really use it dependably. No more relying on chance at all- you just have to gauge the 20 seconds right.
In fact, everything he posted is a buff! He just included a note saying he's not going to revert a nerf, and everyone is flipping out just because they were talking about shard recently.
If shard was such a big deal why wait until page 85 to start complaining about the nerf? That nerf is not new, it's been there since this thread started.
And dear lord can you renegade's just buy a respect token and be done with it already? Renegade isn't a great spec to begin with.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I have tested too and can say that you forget a few things. First of all,with the Invisible ICD, Eots procced at the wrong time more often than not,rendering it even less useful.Who said that even 6 secs of uptime are enough to balance more than a 50% damage nerf on average and 75% nerf on the most used ability cws had: SoEA. I had trouble killing monsters in IWD with any build other than a thauma and with an Oppressor , it took ages to kill anything.I won't even mention Renegade that has become a utility paragon or Dungeons where even adds are unkillable by a cw. We have no cc immunity,no substantial armor and even shield got nerfed because it was OP?. Really now, eye of the storm OP? I don't think so.You have to see the larger picture.
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
Feedback: Storm Spell
I, regretfully, second this. I've come up with a Thaumaturge DoT build on the preview server where Storm Spell does ~10% of my total damage, which is pretty good for a class feature. These changes will increase the damage of Storm Spell to SEVEN times what it currently is.
(The math: It did say ~1000 damage on 10% of attacks = 100 added damage per attack. Now it will do 2000 damage on 35% of attacks = 700 added damage per attack.)
That will give me the ability, with the right build, to do more damage than I do now on live. This buff is needed if you're using a normal build, but DoT builds will be able to exploit the heck out of this change.
I, regretfully, second this. I've come up with a Thaumaturge DoT build on the preview server where Storm Spell does ~10% of my total damage, which is pretty good for a class feature. These changes will increase the damage of Storm Spell to SEVEN times what it currently is.
(The math: It did say ~1000 damage on 10% of attacks = 100 added damage per attack. Now it will do 2000 damage on 35% of attacks = 700 added damage per attack.)
That will give me the ability, with the right build, to do more damage than I do now on live. This buff is needed if you're using a normal build, but DoT builds will be able to exploit the heck out of this change.
Good. Then maybe we have a chance against TR/GWF/HR.
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
To follow up on this, buffing Storm Spell will suck even more life out of SotEA. Creeping Frost + Storm Spell demands Icy Terrain and CoI big time and SotEA can't compete with Steal Time and Sudden Storm, who are now the big hitters in your rotation.
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naveed24Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
5. CW in PvP cannot be viable without (at least) the Eye of the Storm as it is now on Live (not that they're viable now). Either give us a feat possibility to remove the cooldown or roll it back to the situation on Live. Without it, the CW in PvP is dead, no matter what changes will be coming!
6. Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer, could you please address the PvP Oppressor, PvP Thaumaturge, and PvP Renegade? Give us a sign that you can see us and that you're planning some changes that will address PvP. On the Live Shard, you can see where the CW currently stands in PvP: in a very bad place. And in the current state on live, the CW is dead. I have practically done all your work, parsed all kinds of different situations, including PvE runs, for free and presented you with a solution to an ideal balance that would make everyone happy in PvP without affecting PvE. It was a lot of work for me that I am not being paid for, because I'm doing it to keep the community alive. If you do not believe that CW should participate in PvP in Neverwinter, please tell me, because I don't want to waste time on a game I and my friends won't be able to play in 2 weeks. I understand that you're working on multiple projects at the same time. I have my own software company and understand that project management isn't the easiest area to work in. But you are lucky enough to have a community here, where people don't stay, because they like the game so much, but because it has a DnD label on it. Use this community for your advantage. Listen to it, implement the changes, let them test it. You have made a huge mistake with the GF in the past. Don't let that happen to the CW.
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Its obvious the community is against these changes, why not do some more tweaks and test, test and more tests on preview until it is done correctly? This will prevent over/under nerfing, which as it stands is completely over nerfing. This WILL kill this class, which is played by A LOT of people since it is one of the original classes and many people have invested time and money into it. Don't GF this!
And dear lord can you renegade's just buy a respect token and be done with it already? Renegade isn't a great spec to begin with.
Sure, if they can ALSO refund my 3 artifacts and all the refinenement points used for them and my combat advantage companions. Then maybe.
You have to understand that gearing for renegade is vastly different from gearing for another spec. It requires investment in very specific items that are totally useless to other classes.
The way it is, it's pretty much the same as if I threw away about 15m AD.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
If I'm reading this correctly, this means that a CW with 3 ranks in EotS starts every battle with 6 seconds of 100% criticals. That's an entire rotation. On the face of it that will be pretty OP.
So we have an entire module to put up with a shard that does not correctly collide with players when used through such things as thorn ward, hallowed ground & the new banners etc then change everything but the thing everyone is begging to be changed in pvp, change how shard works only on TAB with a 5 character collision limit
- [Tempzy]
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kriszbMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
Eots is only a 3s buff. if you actually played cw, you would know this. please go back to whatever class forums u came from
Comments
This!
Changing Renegade cap stone from de-buffs to decreased ICD on EotS (and decreased Casting time and CD in generall on at wills, dailies and encounters I should add, since on preview you can doze off waiting for encounters to cool down) would be a cap stone to look after.
Because, lets face it, Renegades on live don't go Renegade for awesome capstone. For me the only positive was buffing MM, but after changes it will be debuffs only for which nobody cares (Renes themselves including). It's damage from Crit Chance combined with Cha combined with Combat advantage that makes Renegade appealing.
Wouldn't even have to worry about constricting arrow bugging it out anymore.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
These changes should make all of these class features more attractive to Wizards of all trees and improve the usage of them in most cases.
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I have no words.
I disagree with every single thing you posted, and i can garantee you every pvp cw feels the same way.
This encounter changed from a pvp hard high-skill encounter to master to the worst encounter hands down in the game.
Thumbs down regarding the shard. I guess all CWs now have to use the same build/spells because the shard is not good enough. Thx for ignoring our wishes.
Going from the hardest class to play in PvP to the easiest. Standing still and letting assailing force do the job sounds fun... And the class powers wont do much (except for Eye) because now we just have to decide between orb of imposition and Storm Spell, it wont actually change anything in PvP because we have to remove something to gain something else.
Its not a buff in PvP, just another choice and we will still struggle in PvP.
And one more thing.
"We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc)."
You are sooo wrong. We had renegade CWs and Shard CWs. Now we only have Thaum CWs and nobody will use the shard anymore. People DID NOT feel like using shard was necessary in PvP. But now we do feel its necessary to use Thauma.
Also this sounds stupid:
"It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices)."
Because you are doing the exact opposite. You are forcing all CWs to use the same spells and same tree.
"we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances."
It was only great when you had the skill to use it and its one of the harder spell to use in PvP in this game.
Heres some feedback: How about you actually listen to your community, instead of completely disregarding everything being said. i can tell you a game that the devs did the same thing. runescape. it was popular for 10years with over 500k players online at one time, they changed their combat system completely, ruined pvp. and guess what. that number of online players at one time. dropped to 50k.
you need to listen to your community for once, post polls about what the player wants instead of what is best for your pocket. so listen to us. nearly all the good pvp cws in the game have posted in the last 10 pages, asking for a shard buff and complaining about how you are changing cw. no one wants to play a skill-less class that relys on a capstone proc to beat people. Revert all your changes and leave CWs the way they are right now.
The only thing that really made shard such an effective skill (on tab in pvp) is how the cw is using it. Although the damage was good, it is now below adequate compared to the single target skill that you are trying to keep it in line with, it it hitting below average in all cases compared to the other skills. I understand the need to keep all abilities more in like but the damage on preview now is just too low to be used for anything. The prone doesn't even matter if you can't deal damage while they are proned, although it now becomes a good utility for team battles. Don't take our annoyance for putting shard in the grave to think we aren't thankful for the other buffs you guys have given back to the CWs, but shard really was the ability that kept CWs competative in PvP, and now we have to find new ways of playing PvP, for better or worse. ( probably worse
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Listen to the cw community. we want shard back. it is not "too op" if you really think that then nerf the amount of targets it can hit. PVE cws are the problem not pvp. so please learn what is wrong with your game for once
i can guarentee you that meldanen, virus, zeng, spastic doge, allt, sobek, all the great pvp cws that opinions actually matter. would love the cw class to be reverted back to as it is now.
heres some simple math for you because you seem to like simple things.
- assailing force does 4.5k damage every 5 seconds. shard of endless avalanch was only useful on tab so thats 12s cooldown with profound set 15.4s cooldown without profound set. shard of endless avalanche on a completely geared character does about 10k damage if its crits. (with pvorp) sometimes less. in 10s assailing force does 9k unmitigatable damage. in 15s, it does 13.5k unmitigatable damage. so at most, the thaum capstone is on par with profound set shard, and is 35% better than shard if not using profound set.
on top of that, shard has it hit its target and explode in order to do that damage, you can miss, you can get CC'd and have it disappear which completely wastes it for 12-15s whereas assailing is a guarenteed hit. nothing you can do can prevent it from dealing that 4.5kdmg every 5s.
so overall it is better to have shard as it is, then to leave assailing in.
Good changes for PvE cws, consider changing the AOE of Sudden Storm,so it's easier to target, not so great for PvP cws it seems. I only have 1 character,a cw, and really don't PvP at all due to ,in part,the ugly fate Cws face in PvP. So i only have one question for the Devs : Can you honestly say these PvE oriented changes can balance and minimize the hard times cws have at PvP?
Ever since tenacity was introduced and separate pvp armor sets,it was only a matter of time before you had pvp and pve powers. It is crystal clear that this is cryptics adamant intent. So no reason getting into that discussion.
Plus this ICD is INVISIBLE, we cannot measure when will it be gone, so that we can use encounters and not waste EotS on at wills! This issue has been brought up few times already.
1 first thanks for the reply at least i now feel that you are aware of the problem of the actual CW on the previous server and that what ever we (players) and you have differents view for solve it. at least now that if feel like the actual CW (without counting your last change) is not the final version.
2 shard point; i understand your view and i can say you that this power is actually useless (on previous) 1 it less damage than the actual steal time you find and 2 it already a quite frusrtating feat that i actually only use in my slot because it does damage and that the only reason since it is so much bugged (does not launch and especially when there is some lag, does not explode, can be move by some mob power, disapear when controled and if i'm based on the actual damage i'm able to get with, it more or less 3k per target with max 5 target). If this spell is so problematic don't buff , don't nerf : change it make a complete new spell . Honestly in pvp i'm not using it, too hard to control and too easy to counter. i even take habit when i face an other CW that use that to just wait him invoc shard to control him since he can't move and it make shard disapear (generaly this CW unslot it for the rest of the battle).
for now measuring new change i need to test it before making comment.
By the way thanks for hear at least the fact that we are in the bottom of the sea and that is a problem you are working on
Also something that really can help us to test is to have a statment of the change but also what are the incomming change that are not yet on the previous server. i saw lot of comment that are based on false or more often on old version of previous and that especialy about PVP point (what ever the class). I'm sure it is something that can help every one. (if it exist just says me where)
Any chance this could be put on a power like Evocation, rather than a feat? A feat is permanent and basically forces us to spec for either PvP or PvE. By putting it on a power, it would provide the option for changing PvP/PvE focus by switching powers around.
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I must've missed where it's up to 6 seconds now. I thought it was 4 at max rank. Yeah it's a huge buff.
Not only do you get to start with guaranteed crits, but once you get used to the timing, you can actually really use it dependably. No more relying on chance at all- you just have to gauge the 20 seconds right.
In fact, everything he posted is a buff! He just included a note saying he's not going to revert a nerf, and everyone is flipping out just because they were talking about shard recently.
If shard was such a big deal why wait until page 85 to start complaining about the nerf? That nerf is not new, it's been there since this thread started.
And dear lord can you renegade's just buy a respect token and be done with it already? Renegade isn't a great spec to begin with.
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
I have tested too and can say that you forget a few things. First of all,with the Invisible ICD, Eots procced at the wrong time more often than not,rendering it even less useful.Who said that even 6 secs of uptime are enough to balance more than a 50% damage nerf on average and 75% nerf on the most used ability cws had: SoEA. I had trouble killing monsters in IWD with any build other than a thauma and with an Oppressor , it took ages to kill anything.I won't even mention Renegade that has become a utility paragon or Dungeons where even adds are unkillable by a cw. We have no cc immunity,no substantial armor and even shield got nerfed because it was OP?. Really now, eye of the storm OP? I don't think so.You have to see the larger picture.
Feedback: Storm Spell
I, regretfully, second this. I've come up with a Thaumaturge DoT build on the preview server where Storm Spell does ~10% of my total damage, which is pretty good for a class feature. These changes will increase the damage of Storm Spell to SEVEN times what it currently is.
(The math: It did say ~1000 damage on 10% of attacks = 100 added damage per attack. Now it will do 2000 damage on 35% of attacks = 700 added damage per attack.)
That will give me the ability, with the right build, to do more damage than I do now on live. This buff is needed if you're using a normal build, but DoT builds will be able to exploit the heck out of this change.
Good. Then maybe we have a chance against TR/GWF/HR.
To follow up on this, buffing Storm Spell will suck even more life out of SotEA. Creeping Frost + Storm Spell demands Icy Terrain and CoI big time and SotEA can't compete with Steal Time and Sudden Storm, who are now the big hitters in your rotation.
Its obvious the community is against these changes, why not do some more tweaks and test, test and more tests on preview until it is done correctly? This will prevent over/under nerfing, which as it stands is completely over nerfing. This WILL kill this class, which is played by A LOT of people since it is one of the original classes and many people have invested time and money into it. Don't GF this!
Sure, if they can ALSO refund my 3 artifacts and all the refinenement points used for them and my combat advantage companions. Then maybe.
You have to understand that gearing for renegade is vastly different from gearing for another spec. It requires investment in very specific items that are totally useless to other classes.
The way it is, it's pretty much the same as if I threw away about 15m AD.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder