Well WotC approved the feywild content and in the Arcane Reservoir and War Maker the feys are using explosive with a mesh, so if they ever figure out that they can stick it in a long metal barrel, block one end and put rocks at the other, voila FR/DnD guns.
But I personaly don't want to see them, unless they intorduce Gnomes as a race and they come in 100$ pack.
Personally. It seems like it would be a really dull class. It would have just one encounter called "fire" with a 2 minute cool down. With a single at-will called "reload" that just plays an animation. So you'll have something to do while your encounter cools down.
Personally. It seems like it would be a really dull class. It would have just one encounter called "fire" with a 2 minute cool down. With a single at-will called "reload" that just plays an animation. So you'll have something to do while your encounter cools down.
Well you could always copy the archery skill path and rename the powers and feats.
Split shot
Aimed shot
etc, are all in game already as for reload(cds) their could be feats to improve it like quick draw or such.
Add dual wield feat and some types of ammo.
But the main drawback would be the unlimited ammo, I know HRs don't have to worry about ammo and for me it's a design flaw, all their range powers(expect bear trap) should use 1 arrow and like 5 arrows for split shot(or charges).
You would do far better to train crossbow wielding soldiers, with each shooter having two loaders they could keep up an impressive and devastating volume of fire. A crossbow requires far less training than a longbow to use effectively and has none of the drawbacks of smoke powder.
Oh without a doubt there are benefits of a crossbow and I assume they would be used currently. However you can wear enough armor to stop a bolt, you can't wear enough armor to stop a bullet and still be able to move and that doesn't even get into what cannon fire does. The damage something like this could do to a charge is better compared to a casters spell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapeshot
As a DM, there is a major problem with this that I see and I see why countries, cities, and organizations do not use it.
. . . The problem with using Smoke Powder in such a way along the Sword Coast (a region steeped proud in its "Free States" since the first fall of Netheril) would cause war between neighboring City-States (like Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Luskan, Silverymoon, Icewind Dale, Irieabor, etc.), Countries (like Calimshan, Netheril, Moonshae Isles, etc.), and probably even make enemies out of powerful Nations (like Cormyr, Comanthtyr, etc.) and organizations (like the Harpers, etc.) for examples. So, while it may help to win the fight against Thay, Dragons, and other threats - the cost would be too great; all out war against their allies.
. . . Lord Neverember, power-hungry as he may be and even though an antagonist in source material, isn't about to declare war on his "allies" just for the sake of highly rare, regulated, and outlawed Smoke Powder. He's working too hard to win over the People of his realms (Waterdeep & Neverwinter) to throw that all away and make himself and Neverwinter an enemy of Faerun.
. . . Think of Smoke Powder like a Nuclear Weapon in relation to our Real World. You get it, and you cause a diplomatic situation. You use it and you cause a World War between you and those whom were your allies and then all your enemies sneak in for the kill. Let's also not forget about the people themselves, who would riot and cause civil unrest. While the Spellplage happened over a hundred years ago, the destruction wrought upon by countries using massive amounts of unstable magic (Halruaa, Lantan, etc.) being wiped off the map is well known across Faerun. Such flagrant use of it would cause wide-spread panic -- especially within those races that live for hundreds of years.
. . . All the Smoke Powder in the Realms wouldn't hold against the forces of Calimshan, the War Wizards of Cormyr, or the High Mages of the Elven Courts and with your allies denouncing you for using a "weapon of mass destruction," Neverember would be all alone trying to protect a city in civil unrest with enemies at every gate -- even the sea. Neverwinter would be wiped off the map... if not by its own doing, then by those seeking to eradicate those using Smoke Powder as a weapon of war.
Well we have a fundamental difference of opinion about the general populace of a city, any city. I find people in general are sheep and will believe comfortable lies before hard truths. I don't think the population would have much in the way of civil unrest. As for the rest, I wish we had an viable way of trying it out. I think that Neverember could win, if he was brutal enough. It wouldn't be honorable combat though.
Regardless of that, there would be other worst case scenarios. Such as the Drow getting the plans and Lolth saying go and slaughter with them.
Well you could always copy the archery skill path and rename the powers and feats.
Split shot
Aimed shot
etc, are all in game already as for reload(cds) their could be feats to improve it like quick draw or such.
Add dual wield feat and some types of ammo.
But the main drawback would be the unlimited ammo, I know HRs don't have to worry about ammo and for me it's a design flaw, all their range powers(expect bear trap) should use 1 arrow and like 5 arrows for split shot(or charges).
While unlimited ammo is weird from a rpg perspective, I've played mmo's where you needed to carry ammo and it was a nightmare. Characters running out mid dungeon, players of the class complaining on a lack of bag space, (which would be amplified with Neverwinter because you need to buy bags with zen) Unlimited ammo does feel weird but from a gameplay standpoint it is the only choice.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
While unlimited ammo is weird from a rpg perspective, I've played mmo's where you needed to carry ammo and it was a nightmare. Characters running out mid dungeon, players of the class complaining on a lack of bag space, (which would be amplified with Neverwinter because you need to buy bags with zen) Unlimited ammo does feel weird but from a gameplay standpoint it is the only choice.
One of the things one of my players who uses a bow made a point to do was to save enough money to have a wizard enchant their bow to always create a new arrow when the string was drawn back in a firing motion. Naturally, I allowed him to do just that but it wasn't cheap and in effect, became akin to a Neverwinter T2 weapon. I think it took 2 play sessions for him to acquire it. That was many years ago. There are even ranged weapons that return to the player in the Encyclopedia Magicas and other source materials over the many years and are more common in the Realms than one would think.
But yeah, going from DMing my world to PCing in Dark Sun is a complete nightmare for my brain. I don't worry about weight as long as they don't go overboard and have bags of holding and I don't worry about natural weather except when they go out of the temperate climates and into either Chult, Spine of the World, or Al-Quadim (or some other desert region). The DM for our Dark Sun campaign though, he is meticulous but it works for that setting and makes every choice, no matter how small, important. With magic so abundant in the Realms, I just never felt the need to worry about encumbrance type rules.
Of course, situations always vary and a player's actions may make me say, "Hold on! That's going a tad too far, I'll need you to check <something>." But I won't force them into a situation that would call into question my leniency on encumbrance and ammo.
My pistol wielding, spelljamming kender would be all for guns, but that's the wrong world and rule set.
Let me ring in on this topic, as this has been a big point of contention among my gaming circles in the past. I'm not in a place where I can consult my library of books, but I could swear that gunpowder as we know it ceases to function in the Realms. I have no problem with guns, magic, swords, and such being in the same place. However, with D&D and worlds like FR, it does not fit the theme. Guns are one of those things that just feels wrong in context with the Forgotten Realms.
AD&D 2nd Edition had supplements which added various firearms based on their places in History. In 2e, the rate of fire made most guns fairly worthless as compared to their damage. Bows, crossbows, and magic were far better choices for adventurers and soldiers.
To my knowledge, there has never been a class based on gun usage in any edition of the game that was official.
Oh without a doubt there are benefits of a crossbow and I assume they would be used currently. However you can wear enough armor to stop a bolt, you can't wear enough armor to stop a bullet and still be able to move and that doesn't even get into what cannon fire does. The damage something like this could do to a charge is better compared to a casters spell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapeshot
That's actually the point of a heavy crossbow with a forged arrow - you would need exceedingly heavy armor to stop the bolt, meaning solid plate and therefore most of the body would still be vulnerable. Once your down, just send along a squire with a dagger and you're toast (think about Agincourt). Cannons require a rather significant mastery of multiple disciplines, including metallurgy and chemistry. Better off hiring a platoon of war wizards.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
That's actually the point of a heavy crossbow with a forged arrow - you would need exceedingly heavy armor to stop the bolt, meaning solid plate and therefore most of the body would still be vulnerable. Once your down, just send along a squire with a dagger and you're toast (think about Agincourt). Cannons require a rather significant mastery of multiple disciplines, including metallurgy and chemistry. Better off hiring a platoon of war wizards.
Ah but those resources, the bellfounder and the chemist/alchemist is back from the frontlines in the main cities, in bunkers, behind walls etc. A war wizard is on the front lines.
edit*
As far as the crossbow bolt goes, there is a reason why the gun replaced the bow and crossbow in our own history. It wasn't instant, and they were used side by side for a while, but as the gun got better and better matchlock to flintlock etc the bow and crossbow fell away to make way for the deadlier weapon.
I doubt wotc would give them permission to bring guns into the world of Faerun.
Guns actually do exist in faerun. They are exotic creations of Gond's followers, and very rare, and dangerous to use. They might have only been refrenced back in 2nd edition, but they are definitely part of the lore.
Ah but those resources, the bellfounder and the chemist/alchemist is back from the frontlines in the main cities, in bunkers, behind walls etc. A war wizard is on the front lines.
edit*
As far as the crossbow bolt goes, there is a reason why the gun replaced the bow and crossbow in our own history. It wasn't instant, and they were used side by side for a while, but as the gun got better and better matchlock to flintlock etc the bow and crossbow fell away to make way for the deadlier weapon.
To the first point, it also is about at what level the technology is. Naval history in particular (Naval officer here ) is replete with just how dangerous early cannon were, particular given the difficulties in what was effectively quality control. Reliability also required a certain degree of standardization, which is no small feat. Even once those develop to the point where they're assets rather than liabilities, there is still a significant element of danger inherent in the profession. A war wizard on the front line who can reliably launch a dozen fireballs is far more worthwhile than a cannon that might blow up firing solid shot, to say nothing of shells!
There are many reasons why guns replaces other implements of killing, but bear in mind we're talking about first generation weapons here. Even seen one of those?
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Rock gnomes gather in small towns, rarely reaching 500 adults. They consider large cities to be uncomfortable, partially because of the great amount of demand the Big Folk have for their skills.[2] Rock gnomes are comfortable deep underground almost as much as on the surface world, possessing skill in ore and gemcutting that surpasses that of the dwarves, along with notable skills in toymaking and clockwork engineering. Rock gnomes are also the finest producers of the new weapons known as "guns."[3]
3.0 3.1 Ed Greenwood, Sean K. Reynolds, Skip Williams, Rob Heinsoo (June 2001). Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition, p. 16. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-1836-5.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
I love this series. In fact I used to keep a Slovatsky Law in my signatures and these are the only soft cover books I have on my shelf...
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If you look at the reviews you notice the "magic" of the books goes away as soon as the rest of the world figures out how to make guns. Unfortunately his incorporation in guns was likely the main cause of the downfall of the series and why after the first four books reviews and opinions go from being some of the most entrancing stories to 'I only keep reading because I want to see "Gilligan get off the island." '
I entirely agree, which is why I used that series as an example of the introduction of guns eventually ruining a good fantasy setting.
I thoroughly enjoyed the first three books. After that, it started getting muddled. I gave up. I heard it went on for a few more books after that, but I never bothered reading them. The "magic" was gone.
Why not simply (re)introduce wands? Then everone can have a lightening bolt up one sleeve and a fireball up the other.
As I recall, this is already being done in the Sundering as pre-Spellplague magic items such as rods, staves, and wands (as seen in the Tower District quest "Rods, Staves, and Wands") are once again working.
One of the new artifacts in module four is a rod.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
To the first point, it also is about at what level the technology is. Naval history in particular (Naval officer here ) is replete with just how dangerous early cannon were, particular given the difficulties in what was effectively quality control. Reliability also required a certain degree of standardization, which is no small feat. Even once those develop to the point where they're assets rather than liabilities, there is still a significant element of danger inherent in the profession. A war wizard on the front line who can reliably launch a dozen fireballs is far more worthwhile than a cannon that might blow up firing solid shot, to say nothing of shells!
There are many reasons why guns replaces other implements of killing, but bear in mind we're talking about first generation weapons here. Even seen one of those?
That is very true with what level the tech is at. I've seen some of the first generation models of stuff in museums and you couldn't pay me to fire one even if it the metal was still theoretically good.
I thought gunslinger was a DnD 4th edition class. I could be wrong though.
I personally don't like the idea of bringing guns to dnd, even blunderbusses and other single shot guns. Stick with arrows and bolts for high fantasy. That's what I like.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Comments
But I personaly don't want to see them, unless they intorduce Gnomes as a race and they come in 100$ pack.
Well you could always copy the archery skill path and rename the powers and feats.
Split shot
Aimed shot
etc, are all in game already as for reload(cds) their could be feats to improve it like quick draw or such.
Add dual wield feat and some types of ammo.
But the main drawback would be the unlimited ammo, I know HRs don't have to worry about ammo and for me it's a design flaw, all their range powers(expect bear trap) should use 1 arrow and like 5 arrows for split shot(or charges).
Well we have a fundamental difference of opinion about the general populace of a city, any city. I find people in general are sheep and will believe comfortable lies before hard truths. I don't think the population would have much in the way of civil unrest. As for the rest, I wish we had an viable way of trying it out. I think that Neverember could win, if he was brutal enough. It wouldn't be honorable combat though.
Regardless of that, there would be other worst case scenarios. Such as the Drow getting the plans and Lolth saying go and slaughter with them.
While unlimited ammo is weird from a rpg perspective, I've played mmo's where you needed to carry ammo and it was a nightmare. Characters running out mid dungeon, players of the class complaining on a lack of bag space, (which would be amplified with Neverwinter because you need to buy bags with zen) Unlimited ammo does feel weird but from a gameplay standpoint it is the only choice.
But yeah, going from DMing my world to PCing in Dark Sun is a complete nightmare for my brain. I don't worry about weight as long as they don't go overboard and have bags of holding and I don't worry about natural weather except when they go out of the temperate climates and into either Chult, Spine of the World, or Al-Quadim (or some other desert region). The DM for our Dark Sun campaign though, he is meticulous but it works for that setting and makes every choice, no matter how small, important. With magic so abundant in the Realms, I just never felt the need to worry about encumbrance type rules.
Of course, situations always vary and a player's actions may make me say, "Hold on! That's going a tad too far, I'll need you to check <something>." But I won't force them into a situation that would call into question my leniency on encumbrance and ammo.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Let me ring in on this topic, as this has been a big point of contention among my gaming circles in the past. I'm not in a place where I can consult my library of books, but I could swear that gunpowder as we know it ceases to function in the Realms. I have no problem with guns, magic, swords, and such being in the same place. However, with D&D and worlds like FR, it does not fit the theme. Guns are one of those things that just feels wrong in context with the Forgotten Realms.
AD&D 2nd Edition had supplements which added various firearms based on their places in History. In 2e, the rate of fire made most guns fairly worthless as compared to their damage. Bows, crossbows, and magic were far better choices for adventurers and soldiers.
To my knowledge, there has never been a class based on gun usage in any edition of the game that was official.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
That's actually the point of a heavy crossbow with a forged arrow - you would need exceedingly heavy armor to stop the bolt, meaning solid plate and therefore most of the body would still be vulnerable. Once your down, just send along a squire with a dagger and you're toast (think about Agincourt). Cannons require a rather significant mastery of multiple disciplines, including metallurgy and chemistry. Better off hiring a platoon of war wizards.
edit*
As far as the crossbow bolt goes, there is a reason why the gun replaced the bow and crossbow in our own history. It wasn't instant, and they were used side by side for a while, but as the gun got better and better matchlock to flintlock etc the bow and crossbow fell away to make way for the deadlier weapon.
Guns actually do exist in faerun. They are exotic creations of Gond's followers, and very rare, and dangerous to use. They might have only been refrenced back in 2nd edition, but they are definitely part of the lore.
To the first point, it also is about at what level the technology is. Naval history in particular (Naval officer here
There are many reasons why guns replaces other implements of killing, but bear in mind we're talking about first generation weapons here. Even seen one of those?
Rock gnomes gather in small towns, rarely reaching 500 adults. They consider large cities to be uncomfortable, partially because of the great amount of demand the Big Folk have for their skills.[2] Rock gnomes are comfortable deep underground almost as much as on the surface world, possessing skill in ore and gemcutting that surpasses that of the dwarves, along with notable skills in toymaking and clockwork engineering. Rock gnomes are also the finest producers of the new weapons known as "guns."[3]
3.0 3.1 Ed Greenwood, Sean K. Reynolds, Skip Williams, Rob Heinsoo (June 2001). Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition, p. 16. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-1836-5.
I entirely agree, which is why I used that series as an example of the introduction of guns eventually ruining a good fantasy setting.
I thoroughly enjoyed the first three books. After that, it started getting muddled. I gave up. I heard it went on for a few more books after that, but I never bothered reading them. The "magic" was gone.
As I recall, this is already being done in the Sundering as pre-Spellplague magic items such as rods, staves, and wands (as seen in the Tower District quest "Rods, Staves, and Wands") are once again working.
One of the new artifacts in module four is a rod.
I personally don't like the idea of bringing guns to dnd, even blunderbusses and other single shot guns. Stick with arrows and bolts for high fantasy. That's what I like.
...
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