Determination should not work off % HP lost. There is no reason to punish a player for choosing to have more HP. Going off percent means you have to take more damage to get just as many unstoppables off. That defeats the point of raising HP for survivability. Same goes for gaining more defense/deflect. Just because a person has defensive stats does not mean they should be able to use it any less.
Honestly, it should. A GWF should NOT be able to spam unstoppable after losing only 5% of his health in pvp.
Due to the new features added for the "Mark", the Swordmaster paragon seems to be in disadvantage in comparison with the Iron Vanguard, being IV you are able to Mark your enemies with an At-Will (Threatening Rush) this allow you to keep an AoE At-Will (Wicked Strike) or use single target dps (Sure Strike) according to the fight also keeping 3 offensive Encounters, however, if you are a SM and you want to use the Mark, you have to give up an offensive encounter and use Daring Shout which deals zero damage unless feated and considering how good might be the Daring Shout, we don't need unstoppable gain because (specially Destroyers due to the capstone) in the new areas the enemies hits really hard or even in the old ones like Castle Never, we just need to run toward a group, receive some damage and the bar is full, the mark is good now obviously but the extra damage that we gain doesn't make up the loss of an offensive encounter and even if it does it's better to play IV and spread the mark with TR + 3 offensive encounters. I don't count with the IBS mark because you need to land a killing blow, clearing trash means that most mobs are already close to death so the group doesn't get the whole benefit, doesn't work when fighting bosses without mobs like Fulminorax, Valindra, etc.
Suggestion: Mighty Leap would be a good option for marking opponents after the impact, works for both paragons, can be used in both offensive and defensive ways also granting a better mobility.
I would also like to take into consideration the daily Slam which is supposed to be an Utility skill but unfortunately isn't good enough even feated, if this daily is also able to mark the enemies around the GWF upon his activation, that would be real utility for the group where the GWF is giving up Spinning Strike (heavy AoE dmg) for Slam in order to increase the overall group damage.
i think Weapon Master Strike would be best option for SM marking ability
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
i think Weapon Master Strike would be best option for SM marking ability
Please stop spamming the Official Feedback Thread. I ignored your once per day comment for a long time but enough is enough. There's no need to spam the same idea as if they didn't hear you the first twenty times. The ball is in their court and spamming it won't help your suggestion at all.
I understand this is in response to another person's feedback but you should be familiar with the boy who cried wolf. Besides, please avoid responding to other people's feedback.
Can you please take a look at the damage this power deals to players?
On Preview I got 1-hit-killed as a CW through this power by 28k (crit) and I was with Grim gear. When I went with my Cleric in a more modest PvP gear I received 30k damage from it.
i igree.my list of nerfs:
ibs, all sm, reaping strike, slam, punishing charge and battle fury.
really, see all buffs at cw Paragon and see sm forgotten since the beta is really offensive.
Can you please take a look at the damage this power deals to players?
On Preview I got 1-hit-killed as a CW through this power by 28k (crit) and I was with Grim gear. When I went with my Cleric in a more modest PvP gear I received 30k damage from it.
That GWF probably got really lucky. If you look at the newest GWF videos, you'll see that it only hits like a wet noodle.
Those with a good Deflection greatly reduces this damage, and some CWs/DCs in the videos were using Shield/BiS.
And...so? Just to clarify: right now, if build correctly any class get hit for much less than that. Your shield got buffed for a reason: give you a PvP defensive option to increase survivability.
I fought a 15k CW and another GWF did the same, and there were not "30k hits" on IBS.
Quite frankly, after all the nerfs GWFs got, asking for a IBS damage nerf...are you serious? Take a look at you build, post it here along with your HP, stats, gear and all cause right now you're the only one complaining about IBS hitting "too hard" on preview.
Not meant to be rude, but if you want more nerfs on Mod4 GWF, then it's a L2P issue.
Or, either, you got IBS from prone after a FLS, but it got fixed and FLS is now a stun. Seriously, GWFs got nerfed enough. Now, if you still have issues, it's your turn to learn how to fight them/ build your class...
and post a log ... it's really annoying to have to discuss not proven absurds like "5sec roar", etc..
I never talk about another class without having a "document in hands" ... ahah
for the record... you see the anvil of doom?
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited August 2014
Guys there is no need for this thread any more cuz i know GWF is viable vs any class now .
We need to work if we want to kill somone but its fine ,not immortal or dominant but it is balanced .
Since when did that change? Also, if there is a small difference, then SM needs a damage buff since, as germmanic quoted, IV is for medium damage/high tanking and SM is for high damage/medium tanking. So, if the damage is about the same, why bother with SM? IV is much more useful for most scenarios.
I am yet to test this week's changes. That said, can you not click and mark a second target with TR (or can you only have one target marked at all times using TR)? Also, if there is a small difference, does it favor IV or SM?
I'd agree that DS may be a better marking skill than TR (with such limitations), with its ability to provide additional defense buff and determination gain, but it having such a high CD and not being able to deal damage makes it less viable for SM/Destroyers.
In fact, I'd prefer not having any marks on WMS or even Steel Blitz so that SM/Destroyers are not pigeonholed into the same role/mechanics as IV. What I would rather see is a buff to WMS via the Destroyer "Staying Power" feat such as follows:
Suggestion:
Staying Power:Weapon Master's Strike now also reduces your target Mitigation to your Encounter powers 4/8/12/16/20% (up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
Since it is a T2 feat, it would be accessible to Sentinels and Instigators as well, but players would have to make an active choice investing into this feat (thereby, making sacrifices elsewhere).
to get staying power feat u need to spend 10 points in destro tree while IV get that bonus for free from TR
to get staying power feat u need to spend 10 points in destro tree while IV get that bonus for free from TR
I was speaking from the SM/Destroyer perspective, which I felt should have the highest damage (sacrificing its defenses with the current Unstoppable nerf) . And you would be getting Great Weapon focus or Deep gash, in all probability, wouldn't you?
Guys there is no need for this thread any more cuz i know GWF is viable vs any class now .
We need to work if we want to kill somone but its fine ,not immortal or dominant but it is balanced .
Feels balanced after the changes. Still a bit behind HRs and GFs. And GFs are, test on the field, pretty much a bit ahead of everyone included HRs.
Still beyond me how they still complain about GWFs in the official feedback topic since right now GFs are better. Can't just enjoy their buffs? Geez...
FEEDback
nerfed gwf because they were to strong, and then buffed them back up? 25k with indomitable battle strength but yet he still has 45% dmg resistance and 45% deflection chance? with now longer cc?
w8 a second godmode, indomitable battle strenght is the daily , i doubt 25k, it's something wrong with this daily that crits so much.
I normally avoid posting non feedback in wrong class forum but I make an exeption because I just cant stand the level of ignorance that is going on.With new nerf to wild medicine you cant build stack fast any more iq you dont get healing up fast when under focus.
As hr have NO anti cc and is prime target to focus and kill the differance between live and preview is that we got far worse defence and far worse healing abilitys + no reliable cc .*
""""You test fighting hrs in icewind where healing dep DO NOT FUNCTION!!!""""
Try this put 2hr vs 2gf or 2gwf or 2cw and see what happens.Hr has no cc to save eachother (dont even mention bulls) and once locked down by ccs with no possible way to escape 1 of them will go down fast.
The hrs on the other hand had no way of killing either set up fast as they cant cc lock down 1 of them and they all can save eachother with ccs.Now good luck killing of a gwf or gf fast (cw can be killed fast if caught 1-2 and cced).
The advantages of being able to stun 3 sec every 7 sec, get immune to cc and 30%more dr while sprinting ( now 40% less stam drain so it can be used quite often now) and unstoppable with all the advantages multible times during a fight togethet with higher dam output will by far out perform the nowmore little selfhealing meele hrs can do.
Moreover cw gf and gwf can have a build for both pvp and pve while hrs must use full meele build i pvp and full archer in pve.To say that hrs as it is on preview is in as good spot as cw gf and gwfs is a misserable fail to see the hole picture or just willingly put a blind eye to it.
*ps. This was posted on gwf feedback thread when it was here it belong.
I tried to remove it from gwf feedback bu somehow couldent, sorry for that.
0
someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
Moreover cw gf and gwf can have a build for both pvp and pve while hrs must use full meele build i pvp and full archer in pve.To say that hrs as it is on preview is in as good spot as cw gf and gwfs is a misserable fail to see the hole picture or just willingly put a blind eye to it.
*ps. This was posted on gwf feedback thread when it was here it belong.
I tried to remove it from gwf feedback bu somehow couldent, sorry for that.
LOLWUT? (mod4):
PVE CW (~Rene/Thaum) with 22-24k HP in PvP.
PVE GWF (~Destro/Instigator?) with 22-24k HP, 30%dr in PvP.
LOLWUT? (mod4):PVE CW (~Rene/Thaum) with 22-24k HP in PvP.*PVE GWF (~Destro/Instigator?) with 22-24k HP, 30%dr in PvP.HR, deflect 50%+, Aimed Shot, dodge, Boar Charge/Boar Hide, dodge, dodge, dodge, Thorn Ward x5, dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge, Trolol(Marauder)'s Escape.
Cw and gfw have valid feats for both pve and pvp with gear swop hr dont.
Now just because sm tired of trolls like you am going to show you exactly how stupid your example is.
FEATING above example sould be boar-marauder-thorn leaving no ranged encounters at all =loosing all synergy with switching stances incl serpent.
Extreamly few solo pvp built haflings will have 50+deflect rest will be more 40-45.
Dodge is a reactive tool meaning if you get cc ed a hr you cant escape AS WE HAVE NO ANTI CC.
Hrs dodge is also knowed confirmed and tested bugged so most if the time it dont work (probably due to short distance it has).
As for aimed shot good luck getting that of in pvp with all the dotts /aoes flying around+ the fact that anybody that sees that incredible slow animation just throws away random attack and its gone.
Now if you like to add anything remotly connected to reality feel free but keep your fantasys to yourself mkay!
I normally avoid posting non feedback in wrong class forum but I make an exeption because I just cant stand the level of ignorance that is going on.With new nerf to wild medicine you cant build stack fast any more iq you dont get healing up fast when under focus.
Got to highlight that part
As hr have NO anti cc and is prime target to focus and kill the differance between live and preview is that we got far worse defence and far worse healing abilitys + no reliable cc .*
""""You test fighting hrs in icewind where healing dep DO NOT FUNCTION!!!""""
Same applies to GWF/ GF regeneration, and these are the classes with the highest HP pool that benefot more from regeneration. So the difference would be less than you'd think. But i've to correct you: healig depression is working in icewind pass. You can see the icon appearing AND i tested heroic duelist armor in a 1v1: it was affected by healing depression. So, Mr. "level of ignorance", healing depression currently works in PTR in icewind pass.
Try this put 2hr vs 2gf or 2gwf or 2cw and see what happens.Hr has no cc to save eachother (dont even mention bulls) and once locked down by ccs with no possible way to escape 1 of them will go down fast.
The hrs on the other hand had no way of killing either set up fast as they cant cc lock down 1 of them and they all can save eachother with ccs.Now good luck killing of a gwf or gf fast (cw can be killed fast if caught 1-2 and cced).
Go talk to HRs practicing on preview shard, since they are performing much better than you.
The advantages of being able to stun 3 sec every 7 sec, get immune to cc and 30%more dr while sprinting ( now 40% less stam drain so it can be used quite often now) and unstoppable with all the advantages multible times during a fight togethet with higher dam output will by far out perform the nowmore little selfhealing meele hrs can do.
Moreover cw gf and gwf can have a build for both pvp and pve while hrs must use full meele build i pvp and full archer in pve.To say that hrs as it is on preview is in as good spot as cw gf and gwfs is a misserable fail to see the hole picture or just willingly put a blind eye to it.
It's not 40% less stamina drain, Mr. Ignorance. It's 40% more stamina, it drains as fast as before and regenerates as slow as before. On test, with all stamina boons and feats, a GWF has 7 small bursts the lenght of a HR dodge. And GWFs are melee class, not ranged, and have to use it to close the gap, chase the dodging enemy, and defend. Unstoppable is not multiple times in a fight if the enemy knows how to fight. With determination gain nerf it takes 50% of total HP lost to have 8 seconds of Unstoppable. Mr. "Level of Ignorance"
*ps. This was posted on gwf feedback thread when it was here it belong.
I tried to remove it from gwf feedback bu somehow couldent, sorry for that.
Seems like you know little about what you talk about. So i'd suggest you to calm down a bit and go talk to the good HRs that practice in icewind pass on preview server.
Don't mean to be rude, but there are lots of wrong assumptions and bad knowledge in your post, and frankly we don't need yet another angry guy filling threads with raging posts against other users...
To quote you, if you have something to post connected to reality, we can discuss it. In a clam and quiet manner may be.
What would you guys think if threatening rush had no cooldown, but dealt no damage? I use this skill for utility, not for damage. With the Mod 4 changes, this skill has almost no utility or damage.
Same applies to GWF/ GF regeneration, and these are the classes with the highest HP pool that benefit more from regeneration. So the difference would be less than you'd think. But i've to correct you: healig depression is working in icewind pass. You can see the icon appearing AND i tested heroic duelist armor 1vs1: it was affected by healing depression. So, Mr. "level of ignorance", healing depression currently works in PTR in icewind pass.
Gf yes but gwf hardly as I am 40khp and if you think reg only can compare with hrs armor proc+wild medicine (before 1 sec cd) +reg your ignorance shines like a light beacon in darkness.
And wild medicine was not affected by healing dep on preview when I tested it for 3 weeks , check facts not your gwf armor which has nothing to do with hrs.
Go talk to HRs practicing on preview shard, since they are performing much better than you.[/QUOTE?
No they are not I have been there on and off for 3 weeks and during this time I havent seen one that does (doesent mean some do slightly better but that is beside the point) and non has beaten me and only 3 has fought me to a stand still. And for the record I talked to enough hrs on PREVIEW to know for a fact they dont preform either much better or worse.
It's not 40% less stamina drain, Mr. Ignorance. It's 40% more stamina, it drains as fast as before and regenerates as slow as before. On test, with all stamina boons and feats, a GWF has 7 small bursts the length of a HR dodge. And GWFs are melee class, not ranged, and have to use it to close the gap, chase the dodging enemy, and defend. Unstoppable is not multiple times in a fight if the enemy knows how to fight. With determination gain nerf it takes 50% of total HP lost to have 8 seconds of Unstoppable. Mr. "Level of Ignorance"
The main thing is that you got more stam = more/longer sprints with CC IMMUNITY + 30 % DR WHICH YOU CAN USE TO GET AWAY OR CLOSE IN ON. And yes with use of potions ccs artifacts and others helping incl dc heal you can and will use unstoppable several times during a fight. Gwf is a meele class ! And how do you think MELEE HRS WILL FIGHT!! The difference i that we have no cc immunity to use to close the gap and once cced we have no escape aka unstoppable and we have No reliable cc to help us the way gwfs and gfs have ... but I guess in you ignorance all this dont apply .....
Seems like you know little about what you talk about. So i'd suggest you to calm down a bit and go talk to the good HRs that practice in icewind pass on preview server.Don't mean to be rude, but there are lots of wrong assumptions and bad knowledge in your post, and frankly we don't need yet another angry guy filling threads with raging posts against other users
I know exactly what am talking about as I play gf gwf hr dc and now lvled a warlock to 60 on preview and I test stuff from both sides. That is how I know how easy it is to lock down and kill hrs 2-1. Dont worrie about being rude its the lvl of ignorance about hrs that fills these forums that I cant stand.
Ps beside I know you in game as a nice enough fella ).
Is fine that other classes have some "Ignore DR" feats... the problem is the "amount of DR ignored" itself, but THIS is OUR fault, not their fault. Why? most of us did an useless debate about "techs and mechanics" with non-GWF-Players instead of keeping asking the things we all got deleted trying to explain just these "balancing patch" to non-GWF-Players: make GWF on Unstop "DR piercing inmune" (the unstop buff, not the normal one) while maintaining the determination gaining as it is right now on live server AND making some DR "unbreakable" (50% of normal armor) for Sentinels as it is on GFs (i think, i did not tryed at full my GF on test yet, sorry, but seems like this is the number vs my GWF with 6.2k on power vs a [as he said] 14k GF) OR make it a 25% unbreakable armor for the whole class
Also, all of us should start asking for MORE ArP/DR piercing damage/true damage ON DESTROYER TREE instead of losing ourselves in useless debates with non-GWF-players. As i said, i asked these changes after going IWD with my, now, 16ks GWF in FULL GRIM Sentinel + normal Bark
not true, i always asked Crush what does he plan or intend to do, but ofc i never got a reply ever..
Guys there is no need for this thread any more cuz i know GWF is viable vs any class now .
We need to work if we want to kill somone but its fine ,not immortal or dominant but it is balanced .
This! GWF are fine right now some are amazingly powerful, other that relied on being OP are not! I have an 18k gs GF with full black ice, and GWF IBS hits me for 30% -50% of my hp. Do not tell me you guys do no damage!
I will not say you need nerfing further as you can be killed, I have been killed by good GWF's also, but stop this charade that you guys need MORE. You are pretty much un ccable if you want to be, can do great damage, and can run away at anytime and escape...
/thread
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Comments
Honestly, it should. A GWF should NOT be able to spam unstoppable after losing only 5% of his health in pvp.
exactly the reason i don't use 4-piece grim/profound and stick with 2x 2/4-set or heroic duelist.
i think Weapon Master Strike would be best option for SM marking ability
Please stop spamming the Official Feedback Thread. I ignored your once per day comment for a long time but enough is enough. There's no need to spam the same idea as if they didn't hear you the first twenty times. The ball is in their court and spamming it won't help your suggestion at all.
I understand this is in response to another person's feedback but you should be familiar with the boy who cried wolf. Besides, please avoid responding to other people's feedback.
i igree.my list of nerfs:
ibs, all sm, reaping strike, slam, punishing charge and battle fury.
really, see all buffs at cw Paragon and see sm forgotten since the beta is really offensive.
why gwf may not have the same treatment?
That GWF probably got really lucky. If you look at the newest GWF videos, you'll see that it only hits like a wet noodle.
Those with a good Deflection greatly reduces this damage, and some CWs/DCs in the videos were using Shield/BiS.
And...so? Just to clarify: right now, if build correctly any class get hit for much less than that. Your shield got buffed for a reason: give you a PvP defensive option to increase survivability.
I fought a 15k CW and another GWF did the same, and there were not "30k hits" on IBS.
Quite frankly, after all the nerfs GWFs got, asking for a IBS damage nerf...are you serious? Take a look at you build, post it here along with your HP, stats, gear and all cause right now you're the only one complaining about IBS hitting "too hard" on preview.
Not meant to be rude, but if you want more nerfs on Mod4 GWF, then it's a L2P issue.
Or, either, you got IBS from prone after a FLS, but it got fixed and FLS is now a stun. Seriously, GWFs got nerfed enough. Now, if you still have issues, it's your turn to learn how to fight them/ build your class...
I never talk about another class without having a "document in hands" ... ahah
for the record... you see the anvil of doom?
We need to work if we want to kill somone but its fine ,not immortal or dominant but it is balanced .
Since when did that change? Also, if there is a small difference, then SM needs a damage buff since, as germmanic quoted, IV is for medium damage/high tanking and SM is for high damage/medium tanking. So, if the damage is about the same, why bother with SM? IV is much more useful for most scenarios.
to get staying power feat u need to spend 10 points in destro tree while IV get that bonus for free from TR
I was speaking from the SM/Destroyer perspective, which I felt should have the highest damage (sacrificing its defenses with the current Unstoppable nerf) . And you would be getting Great Weapon focus or Deep gash, in all probability, wouldn't you?
Feels balanced after the changes. Still a bit behind HRs and GFs. And GFs are, test on the field, pretty much a bit ahead of everyone included HRs.
Still beyond me how they still complain about GWFs in the official feedback topic since right now GFs are better. Can't just enjoy their buffs? Geez...
w8 a second godmode, indomitable battle strenght is the daily , i doubt 25k, it's something wrong with this daily that crits so much.
I normally avoid posting non feedback in wrong class forum but I make an exeption because I just cant stand the level of ignorance that is going on.With new nerf to wild medicine you cant build stack fast any more iq you dont get healing up fast when under focus.
As hr have NO anti cc and is prime target to focus and kill the differance between live and preview is that we got far worse defence and far worse healing abilitys + no reliable cc .*
""""You test fighting hrs in icewind where healing dep DO NOT FUNCTION!!!""""
Try this put 2hr vs 2gf or 2gwf or 2cw and see what happens.Hr has no cc to save eachother (dont even mention bulls) and once locked down by ccs with no possible way to escape 1 of them will go down fast.
The hrs on the other hand had no way of killing either set up fast as they cant cc lock down 1 of them and they all can save eachother with ccs.Now good luck killing of a gwf or gf fast (cw can be killed fast if caught 1-2 and cced).
The advantages of being able to stun 3 sec every 7 sec, get immune to cc and 30%more dr while sprinting ( now 40% less stam drain so it can be used quite often now) and unstoppable with all the advantages multible times during a fight togethet with higher dam output will by far out perform the nowmore little selfhealing meele hrs can do.
Moreover cw gf and gwf can have a build for both pvp and pve while hrs must use full meele build i pvp and full archer in pve.To say that hrs as it is on preview is in as good spot as cw gf and gwfs is a misserable fail to see the hole picture or just willingly put a blind eye to it.
*ps. This was posted on gwf feedback thread when it was here it belong.
I tried to remove it from gwf feedback bu somehow couldent, sorry for that.
LOLWUT? (mod4):
PVE CW (~Rene/Thaum) with 22-24k HP in PvP.
PVE GWF (~Destro/Instigator?) with 22-24k HP, 30%dr in PvP.
HR, deflect 50%+, Aimed Shot, dodge, Boar Charge/Boar Hide, dodge, dodge, dodge, Thorn Ward x5, dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge, Trolol(Marauder)'s Escape.
Dead🔪Cw and gfw have valid feats for both pve and pvp with gear swop hr dont.
Now just because sm tired of trolls like you am going to show you exactly how stupid your example is.
FEATING above example sould be boar-marauder-thorn leaving no ranged encounters at all =loosing all synergy with switching stances incl serpent.
Extreamly few solo pvp built haflings will have 50+deflect rest will be more 40-45.
Dodge is a reactive tool meaning if you get cc ed a hr you cant escape AS WE HAVE NO ANTI CC.
Hrs dodge is also knowed confirmed and tested bugged so most if the time it dont work (probably due to short distance it has).
As for aimed shot good luck getting that of in pvp with all the dotts /aoes flying around+ the fact that anybody that sees that incredible slow animation just throws away random attack and its gone.
Now if you like to add anything remotly connected to reality feel free but keep your fantasys to yourself mkay!
Seems like you know little about what you talk about. So i'd suggest you to calm down a bit and go talk to the good HRs that practice in icewind pass on preview server.
Don't mean to be rude, but there are lots of wrong assumptions and bad knowledge in your post, and frankly we don't need yet another angry guy filling threads with raging posts against other users...
To quote you, if you have something to post connected to reality, we can discuss it. In a clam and quiet manner may be.
What would you guys think if threatening rush had no cooldown, but dealt no damage? I use this skill for utility, not for damage. With the Mod 4 changes, this skill has almost no utility or damage.
Gf yes but gwf hardly as I am 40khp and if you think reg only can compare with hrs armor proc+wild medicine (before 1 sec cd) +reg your ignorance shines like a light beacon in darkness.
And wild medicine was not affected by healing dep on preview when I tested it for 3 weeks , check facts not your gwf armor which has nothing to do with hrs.
Dead🔪not true, i always asked Crush what does he plan or intend to do, but ofc i never got a reply ever..
This! GWF are fine right now some are amazingly powerful, other that relied on being OP are not! I have an 18k gs GF with full black ice, and GWF IBS hits me for 30% -50% of my hp. Do not tell me you guys do no damage!
I will not say you need nerfing further as you can be killed, I have been killed by good GWF's also, but stop this charade that you guys need MORE. You are pretty much un ccable if you want to be, can do great damage, and can run away at anytime and escape...
/thread
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I hope the gf is doing 800 total damage with two hits x1 ...