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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock

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  • vampirecavyvampirecavy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Okay, so... I don't know if anyone's responded to this yet, but there was a post asking for what we think the devs should do regarding stance and animations for SW.

    "Simian" is a very good way to state the current stance of SW. The knees are slightly bent, and the arms hang waaaaay off to the sides. While a 'possessed' pose like this is actually fine for combat poses (at least for me), the non-combat poses should be something a little less... uh, demented-looking. Something like what the NPC Makos uses in live would actually be great - he's just... walking. Maybe have the chin be up in idle pose a little bit to indicate exceptional pride/smugness/whatever, though don't go and do the opposite of what HRs have, with their constant depression - make it subtle. Warlocks aren't necessarily going to go out and brag about what they are - especially infernal ones - due to the stigma on it, but they can choose to take pride in it.
  • notsosneaky69notsosneaky69 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Having tried the warlock I must say it comes across as very sluggish. Long casting times. Other than that, I haven't found a problem with it.

    Going from a CW to a Warlock requires some getting used to. Teleport contra Sprint, smooth casting contra slow casting...

    I hope the casting is improved before the release of the class. It would make it feel more... Alive, lacking better words. Right now, you click your mouse or hit a button, char flails arms around for a bit and then something comes flying out...
  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    We actually don't want the soul puppet feeling like a full companion. Remember that the warlock isn't a minion master. When you trigger a soul puppet you get a free DoT that will target foes (and once the new patch goes up, survives *much* longer due to ignoring AoE damage). Players in the damnation tree get bolstered by their Puppet which improves their performance across the board, and the soul puppet in our runs has made up a not insubstantial portion of the damage the warlock dealt. They are a very minor part of the other specs however and should be treated as a secondary DoT that gets launched and can jump from target to target unless you spec deeply into the Damnation tree, where every second of uptime is important and feels empowering.


    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer

    Great, i take that to confirm that you are not considering the soul puppet at all in terms of class balance for the Warlock, which is good news.

    It does kinda make the damnation tree counter productive though. the 10% dmg bonus from having the pet active is nice, with a permanent pet from the capstone, as long as you could control the pet and tell it to stay 100% passive, never attack, never die. but again, companion AI :(
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Ok - my general feedback from the position of levelling a Warlock the hard way (no twinking or tomes) to level 56 so far...

    The class is a blast at early levels. Feels powerful enough but demands some thought to get the best out of the the powers and to work with the inherent squishiness. However, once you get into the 40's things change. I started to feel really underpowered against groups of mobs and survivability became a major issue despite stacking as much lifesteal as possible. Rothe Valley was a wake-up call as swarms of spiders were very difficult to deal with.

    I'm now doing Hotenow and chugging pots like crazy despite having a lifesteal stat around 3k with 16% damage converted to healing (I took feats to boost LS). The lack of a proper dodge is crippling TBH, although I do like the positioning capability of the sprint.

    Encounters don't seem to scale well with the exception of Dreadtheft and Killing Flame. Warlock's Bargain is great against bosses but pretty hard to leverage against anything with fewer HP. The others are all various flavours of meh.

    In short, Warlock needs a boost to either survivability or damage at higher levels. At the moment I can see it struggling in endgame PvE content and is completely unviable in PvP. On the plus side the core game play is great fun and requires some thought, which I love.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Just tried doing The Hellthorn Traitor (Tiefling Racial Quest in Hotenow). Really shows up the shortcomings in Warlock currently. The end boss has high mobility, high burst, and frequent attacks. The best I can manage is to get him to around half health before I die. Repeatedly. You simply cannot out-heal his damage no matter how many DoT effects you have running on him and with no way to dodge his attacks it's game over.

    This fight is tough but possible on CW (pre-nerf at least) because of teleport and CC to avoid or prevent his attacks.

    Warlock defensive features need some kind of rework. Either add a proper dodge mechanic or some defensive encounters/passives that compensate for the lack of any defensive stats. Otherwise this class is pretty much useless for endgame and PvP. Which is a real shame as I love it.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Hmmm - respeced to Damnation tree (Puppet Master) and it feels WAY better than Fury tree. I did tweak my gear slightly as well, moving some points from LS to Def, but not huge changes (only using drops for gear). With a permanent Puppet that spawns with pretty much any damage and the buffs to LS, mitigation, DPS, and Puppet damage I'm both far less squishy and doing more damage. With the upcoming changes to the Puppet to make it more survivable this could be the best path for solo play.

    It might be that Warlock is not as lacking in PvE as it first seems - it just takes very careful selection of feats and powers.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • xthebluespiritxxthebluespiritx Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    since the patch overall good changes, levitation is awesome, being able to curse and move at the same time is so much better, it feels much less clunky
  • dravenrosedravenrose Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    absolutely love the new changes to the standing animation! i think this new one will all around look better for unisex and multiple species of players awesome job

    i cant stop my speed slide now this thing is so flippin amazing really gives you that dark caster feel absolutely no complaints

    the new armor WOW loving all the spikes and in general darker feel all around 100% better guys!

    all the powers that were upgraded really have that unique and more powerful feel to them

    overall 100% better after this patch guys i cant ty enough for all the thought that went into making this class progressivly unique from the other classes. officially my favorite fighting class now!!!
  • dravenrosedravenrose Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    does one wicked dark slideing animations with an awesome evil sound and turns you semi transparent
  • harnelharnel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What does the shift do? Downloading the patch now so can't see for myself at the moment.
    It's the same. it just has a longer uptime and a better animation. That's it, that's all they changed. I feel like we've been ignored. we weren't complaining about the uptime, we were complaining about the fact that 30% damage reduction is useless if we don't have immunity to damage in some form!

    Also, now that I'm ingame, I have two comments:

    Feedback: New Idle
    This is better than the monkey animations, I'll admit that. The issue is that this is too far in the other direction. I can get regal, but when my character is going regal after every single step she stops moving, it snaps believability. I'll deal with the current stance, but seriously, why is my character's arm behind her back? That makes no sense.

    Feedback: Slaughter Warlock Armor
    the absolutely shocking bulk of this armor made it, combined with the new idle, ridiculous to try and find my character's right arm. For a while, I thought she'd lost it, but then found out it was simply camouflaged against her lower back in amidst the humongous tangle of gear. This isn't cool, and it should probably be slimmed down. Any time when a character's arms vanish into their armor because it has so much bulk, it may be time to rethink the design.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: Walking and Idle Animations
    I'm liking the new shift and walk animations quite a bit.

    The idle stance, while definitely capturing the arrogance I wanted, looks a bit uncomfortable IMO.
    Perhaps if the character was just slightly more upright. At least with the character I created it seems like they are leaning backwards.

    Another thing, IMO, it should be the left arm behind the back. It seems like you went with my duelist arrogance here as it is not uncommon to tuck away the offhand to keep out of the way but the right arm is not the off-hand in this case. ;)

    But definitely a huge step in the right direction! Well done and thanks for getting this out to us!



    Feedback: Attack Animation
    I remain firm in the feeling that the attack animations also need to be changed. I just do not agree with reverse grip at all. Please, please, lower the arms a bit and put the blade facing forward.

    The reverse grip on a blade which is meant to be a projectile launcher is irking me about as badly as if a FPS released a pistol held upside down with the pinky as a trigger finger. It doesn't look comfortable, natural or logical. It's one thing to have a reverse grip on a rogue or a melee fighter but another altogether to do so on a ranged character. The blade should act similar to a wand and I seriously cringe imagining holding a wand or some other firing mechanism backwards.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I love the new idle stance he looks so proud/arrogant , I really love the new shift ability but it hasn't got a damage immunity/dodge like control wizards , also I love the toggle for Dreadtheft , the skill is so much easier to use now and the new armor models looks really nice , really good so far , Warlock is starting to come together!
    harnel wrote: »
    It's the same. it just has a longer uptime and a better animation. That's it, that's all they changed. I feel like we've been ignored. we weren't complaining about the uptime, we were complaining about the fact that 30% damage reduction is useless if we don't have immunity to damage in some form!

    I really like the new animation but I agree , gentlemancrush definitely needs to add a damage immunity/dodge to the shift same as CW has or it was pointless changing it despite the fact it looks so much better.
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • lazaroth666lazaroth666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Question:

    Harrowstorm: Curse Consume: Now prones the target for 4 seconds (up from 1 second).

    How long would it be for a player in PvP?
    fkze9t.jpg
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  • harnelharnel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: Shift Mechanic
    It was suggested in the thread I made that, rather than giving the warlock a sprint ability, we might phase them out. What this means is simple; rather than a dodge, a way to keep the warlock unique would be to make them go transparent in-place, and immune to damage while like that. You'd essentially "dodge" anything coming your way, as long as your stamina held out.

    Feedback: Dreadtheft
    I have a problem with the new "you don't have to hold it down" interpretation, and that's that it's hard to maneuver. Shutting it off requires wasting precious stamina, too. Oh, yes, and it's now three button presses to use another attack because you have to cancel it by pressing shift and moving another direction, and then use the attack. This is an issue to me. A power that I've been using since I got it just got taken off my loadout because it's so clunky.
  • azrael4271azrael4271 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    FeedBack:

    Love the new Sprint animation. Keep the animation but turn it into a dodge instead of the sprint and I think it would be perfect. Gives me hope that the class can be what I expect it to be.
  • couatl13couatl13 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback:
    First, the animation for the Warlock's shift is perfect. However, I still think the class would be better served with a dodge. Perhaps like the Devoted Cleric? Just the slide with the Warlock's current shift animation?

    Second, I'm adding my agreement to switching which hand is held behind the back. It really SHOULD be the offhand. However, I love the over all look of the Warlock now. He's a nice arrogant little prick now.
  • couatl13couatl13 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: Attack Animation
    I remain firm in the feeling that the attack animations also need to be changed. I just do not agree with reverse grip at all. Please, please, lower the arms a bit and put the blade facing forward.

    The reverse grip on a blade which is meant to be a projectile launcher is irking me about as badly as if a FPS released a pistol held upside down with the pinky as a trigger finger. It doesn't look comfortable, natural or logical. It's one thing to have a reverse grip on a rogue or a melee fighter but another altogether to do so on a ranged character. The blade should act similar to a wand and I seriously cringe imagining holding a wand or some other firing mechanism backwards.

    I almost wonder if maybe we're looking at the pact blade wrong... We're looking at it maybe like it's a wand. But in the various media, art, film, whatever, the pact blade has more in common with the sacrificial dagger than a wand. So, maybe the blade itself isn't what's so important, but what's on the pommel? So, could it be that, maybe, the Warlock is focusing their magic through that, hence why the reverse grip?
  • jazzfongjazzfong Member Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    We can do 5 to 6 mini-slip with our current stamina bar, and this is very powerful as our defensive mechanism. I really don't want our slip turn into 2 big dodge like DC, that type of dodge is useless, unless you spec for righteous which gives you 5 to 6 dodge every 20 secs.
  • valwrynvalwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Luv the new Sprint. It feels like an in between the CW port and Cleric dodge. It feels smooth. :cool:
  • cheesegromitcheesegromit Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    couatl13 wrote: »
    I almost wonder if maybe we're looking at the pact blade wrong... We're looking at it maybe like it's a wand. But in the various media, art, film, whatever, the pact blade has more in common with the sacrificial dagger than a wand. So, maybe the blade itself isn't what's so important, but what's on the pommel? So, could it be that, maybe, the Warlock is focusing their magic through that, hence why the reverse grip?

    For what it's worth the Forgotten realms wikia page has three images of Warlocks and two are holding the blade the same as we see in the game, it's hard to tell with the other as one end is obscured.

    Feedback: Out-of-combat animations & Shadow Slip
    I'm certainly happier with the out-of-combat idle and run animations as well as the Shadow Slip. If I'm going to be fussy the transition from run to idle is too fast or the idle pose is rotated too much anti-clockwise. That may be a work in progress still, I don't know.
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bug: the quest "Curses!"

    The Abandoned Cathedral appears on the world map but I cannot travel to it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback

    Please consider making Dreadtheft a 'toggle' power - i.e. a second press of the button cancels. Having to use Shift to cancel is clunky. On the plus side, not having to hold the key down is a great improvement.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • allenscottallenscott Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: Warlock performance
    So far, Warlock feels very solid. Looking forward to some more testing and eventually the Warlock going live. Thanks for patching up some of the animation. Warlocks should look brooding and moody, but the hunchback thing wasn't working. But I am wondering why he walks very plainly now, but stands like his lower back has been injured. Is this intended?
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: Out-of-Combat Animations & Shadow Slip
    Love the new Shift ability. Far more responsive, faster, larger range. So far it's much more useful in combat than the sprint BUT - I still worry that the lack of immunity frames will be an issue in high level content and PvP.

    The out-of-combat running and jumping animations are certainly an improvement, but perhaps too generic now? The out-of-combat rest stance is great but maybe the back is a little TOO arched - from the side he looks like he's about to fall over backwards. And I agree with others that it should probably be the left hand held behind the back.

    The Pact Blade is FAR too large to be sheathed on the hip like a longsword. The hilt is jammed into my toon's armpit/shoulder and it looks terrible. Either reduce the length of the Pact Blade by around 25-30%, attach it to the hip nearer the hilt end (moving the whole blade downwards away from the shoulder), or consider an attachment point on the back.

    Very positive update overall though. Great work. :)
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: new animations and stances
    I like them soo much! Great improvements. But I think that weapon positioning should be changed, or decrease the size of the weapon, it looks odd.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I tried out the updated warlock stuff. The new stance and run animations are much better, but I do have a few nitpicks I'd like to address. First, while the new stance does convey a better sense of arrogance, the hand across the back clips very badly with any sort of cape you may be wearing. Perhaps the hand could be placed onto the character's hip instead? Secondly, the new run animation seems to have the character's hands kind of kinked inward at an odd angle - like as if the character was clenching their fists then flexing their fists in toward their body. Below are some screenshots for reference:

    The stance:

    warlockstance2.jpg

    warlockstance3.jpg


    The run:

    warlockrun1.jpg

    warlockrun2.jpg
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  • arabaturarabatur Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 778 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bug: Devastating Critical

    Still only shows the base 75% and my half-elf racial bonus, and not the additional 15% from the rank 3 feat
    Definitely not an Arc User.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback:
    Animations : All i can say is well done awesome .
    Only the jump looks weird.

    Temptation tree : Awesome the SW can keep up the 4 party members all time full hp . This is total viable in pve the party only need 1 GF or 1 GWF sentinel . Also the dmg he can dish out is almost the same as CW (17 k oppressor+full extra) .
    But i think this is an extinction of DC class (suggestion to make DC buffs& debuffs stronger )
    I dont have a luck to test healer path in pvp. :(

    The other 2 path is not viable in pve and pvp they can dish out good dps but they die too quick .
    The damnation tree : is not viable cuz as i say before the puppet die after he is summoned instantly ,he lose 99% time total the benefit from puppet.
    The fury tree: dont deal enugh dmg barly noticable 1-2 % more dps then healer path.


    PS: i used P vorpal in Temptation tree too and find out hou to keep my hp low :)
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The damnation path : is not viable cuz as i say before the puppet die after he is summoned instantly ,he lose 99% time total the benefit from puppet.
    What content are you seeing this in? I've levelled to 59 and done all of Whispering Caverns that is accessible at the moment, and I'm doing the Mod 4 quests now. I reckon I have around 90% uptime on the puppet. It hardly dies at all and re-summons really quickly just from normal attacking (not using Killing Flame). I haven't had the chance to test in dungeons/PvP/campaigns yet.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • vibo21vibo21 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    shift looks better, but this out-of-combat stance for me looks like he has pain in his back...I would suggest idle stance - the same as after opening character/stats screen...
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