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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock

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  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Hey guys, we have a bunch of bug fixes and changes coming in the next week or so. We really want consuming your curse to feel much better than it does and so we are reinforcing that with some changes to many powers that remove curses from targets, as well as some changes to Infernal Spheres and Dreadtheft to make them a little more intuitive.

    Powers
    Infernal Spheres: Infernal Spheres can now be activated while moving and can no longer be toggled off, dismissing any remaining spheres without firing them.
    Infernal Spheres: Now seek out targets every .25 seconds (down from every .75 seconds).
    Infernal Spheres: Base cooldown reduced to 8 seconds (down from 10).
    Dreadtheft: No longer requires you to hold the button down to cast it. It can now only be cancelled by Shadow Sprint (or foes using CC powers).
    Warlock's Bargain: Tooltip has been corrected to show the correct Life Steal amount per rank up.
    Warlock's Bargain: The Curse from Warlock's Bargain can now correctly be used to trigger Curse Bite without any other cursed targets.
    Warlock's Bargain: Now properly grants AP when cast.
    Blades of Vanquished Armies: Now properly grants AP when cast.
    Soul Puppet: Soul Puppets are now immune to AoE Splats and AoE damage from NPCs.

    Curse Consume Changes
    Warlock's Curse: Warlock's Curse will no longer aggro NPCs when not dealing any damage.
    Vampiric Embrace: Heal from Vampiric Embrace increased to 75% of the damage dealt (up from 50%).
    Vampiric Embrace: Curse Consume: Now grants double the amount of health stolen (up from half).
    Dreadtheft: Curse Consume: Bonus Damage Resist per stack is now 6% base (up from 3%) and grants 3% more per rank (up from 1%).
    Dreadtheft: Curse Consume: Damage Resist Debuff is now 10% base (up from 6%) and is increased 5% per rank (up from 3%).
    Fiery Bolt: Curse Consume: Primary Target now takes 35% additional damage from this power. Surrounding targets take full damage from the blast.
    Harrowstorm: Curse Consume: Now prones the target for 4 seconds (up from 1 second).
    Wraith's Shadow: Immobilize Duration increased to 2.5 seconds base (up from 1.5 seconds).

    Shift
    Shadow Sprint: Stamina Cost of Sprinting reduced by 40%
    Shadow Sprint: Stamina Cost to activate Sprint is now in line with Great Weapon Fighter Sprint.

    Feats
    Wrathful Souls: Soul Puppets should now correctly Lifesteal for the proper amount.
    Ghastly Commander: No longer grants far more Life Steal than was intended.
    Executioner's Gift: Now properly looks at ranks in Executioner's Gift when calculating damage.
    Devastating Critical: Now properly increases Critical Severity.
    Offering to the Prisoner: No longer improperly reduces the player's damage.

    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer

    These changes look great! One additional request - add a more obvious visual queue when a curse is consumed - maybe something like a ghostly visage sort of "evaporating" or rising off of the target.

    Regarding the Soul Puppets - in Champions Online, one of the darkness powers is "summon shadows" - you guys should take a queue form them - they have a basic melee attack which is fairly quick, and they have a lunge to quickly get in range of the enemy. One of the issues now is that they sort of mosey over to the target, but due to the fast pace of combat here, that's just not good enough.
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  • cheesegromitcheesegromit Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ruffiana wrote: »
    Along those lines, it would be helpful if we could get some clarification on specifically which animations you guys are referring to. I've seen a lot of references to 'walk' and 'run', but I'm not clear on whether this means actual "walking" animation (triggered with the /walk 0|1 console command) or if by 'walk' you guys mean something like 'out of combat run'.

    We don't always do this full suite, but that's the typical template for player class movement-related animations. Of those listed, which are the ones that in particular bother you the most?

    Other than that, the consensus seems to be less 'simian' and more "haughty".

    The ones that bother me the most are out-of-combat idle and out-of-combat running. I went with a half-elf female and the basic posture is very animalistic, too hunched with arms too wide spread (it might appeal if we ever get a barbarian type). I'm not sure what a 'haughty' pose would look like but something more subtle based around an upright posture would appeal to me.

    I've not tried walk and not paid much attention to the in-combat animations, I'll look into these when I get home.

    Shadow Sprint is tolerable, although I agree with some of darkstarcrash's comments, it does look 'excessively crazed' with the way the blade is held.

    Edit: Having looked at the other animations:

    Walk: I'll probably never use this but I felt the head is too bowed. Head up, shoulders back.
    Out-of-combat jump: the wide arms are a problem again here, hard to assess because of the influence of the basic stance.
    In-combat/sprint: I'd be keen to get rid of the overhead blade and replace it with something that says confident and ready for anything.
  • degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ruffiana wrote: »
    Overall, we're parsing through a lot of very similar feedback about the characterization of the current Warlock animations, and we're deciding the best way to address those. I think the animator responsible for them was given very specific direction, which he nailed, but that direction seems to be out of sync with you guys expectations from the class. Capturing a distinct character class through animation is tricky, particularly when you guys are going to be projecting your own characters on to that avatar. It has to be a balance between a unique style that immediately sets them apart from other classes while being somewhat generic so that it doesn't overwhelm the individual characters who are members of that class.

    Along those lines, it would be helpful if we could get some clarification on specifically which animations you guys are referring to. I've seen a lot of references to 'walk' and 'run', but I'm not clear on whether this means actual "walking" animation (triggered with the /walk 0|1 console command) or if by 'walk' you guys mean something like 'out of combat run'.

    Internally, the animations break down like this:
    • Walking
    • Out-of-Combat Idle
    • Out-of-Combat Running
    • Out-of-Combat Jumping
    • In-Combat Idle
    • In-Combat Running
    • In-Combat Jumping
    • 'Shift' ability ("Shadow Sprint")

    We don't always do this full suite, but that's the typical template for player class movement-related animations. Of those listed, which are the ones that in particular bother you the most?

    Other than that, the consensus seems to be less 'simian' and more "haughty".

    I definitely want to thank the Devs for listening to the feedback from the player base. That is quite refreshing. At the same time, I'm a bit concerned/curious about how y'all came to accept the current Warlock animations as an accurate depiction of the class? If it's crystal clear to the players that the character/demeanor/attitude of the Warlock was missed, why wasn't it clear to the Developers?

    Secondly, I'd really encourage you all to change the "Sprint" to a "Teleport." Infernal power granted by an immortal, powerful being from the Abyss or Nine Hells and I... run faster? Really? A "Shadow Teleport" is much, much more fitting to the class. And there are so many ways to go about it, such as:

    1) Sulfur teleport
    2) Shadow Teleport + Stealth
    3) Becoming Ethereal or a Shadow for a brief time
    4) Briefly reflecting half damage (a sort of "fight fire with fire" concept).
    5) Sprouting batlike, shadow wings and arching in the air

    Endless possibilities. Hire me for your concept designer. Please.
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  • asmodeus451asmodeus451 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i recently had an idea about the "shift" mechanic that might fit the bill for what players want:

    Shadow Step: You step into the Shadows, moving a short distance and gaining concealment for a brief period. (My personal suggestion would be about the distance of HR shift, with a 1 sec concealment following)

    this would give the 'lock a unique ability for the class: the ability to shed aggro by shifting. Which, to me, fits the class thematically
    Tenebris lux mea est
  • katamizaakatamizaa Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: No pity, no mercy
    Duration should be increased a bit. Its hard to make use of it due to the low duration.
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i recently had an idea about the "shift" mechanic that might fit the bill for what players want:

    Shadow Step: You step into the Shadows, moving a short distance and gaining concealment for a brief period. (My personal suggestion would be about the distance of HR shift, with a 1 sec concealment following)

    this would give the 'lock a unique ability for the class: the ability to shed aggro by shifting. Which, to me, fits the class thematically

    This is an excellent idea!
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  • couatl13couatl13 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i recently had an idea about the "shift" mechanic that might fit the bill for what players want:

    Shadow Step: You step into the Shadows, moving a short distance and gaining concealment for a brief period. (My personal suggestion would be about the distance of HR shift, with a 1 sec concealment following)

    this would give the 'lock a unique ability for the class: the ability to shed aggro by shifting. Which, to me, fits the class thematically

    Agreed. A Shift-Dodge would probably be a happy medium between what we as the players would want, and what the Devs would want.
  • xtraordinary91xtraordinary91 Member Posts: 323 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    I definitely want to thank the Devs for listening to the feedback from the player base. That is quite refreshing. At the same time, I'm a bit concerned/curious about how y'all came to accept the current Warlock animations as an accurate depiction of the class? If it's crystal clear to the players that the character/demeanor/attitude of the Warlock was missed, why wasn't it clear to the Developers?

    Secondly, I'd really encourage you all to change the "Sprint" to a "Teleport." Infernal power granted by an immortal, powerful being from the Abyss or Nine Hells and I... run faster? Really? A "Shadow Teleport" is much, much more fitting to the class. And there are so many ways to go about it, such as:

    1) Sulfur teleport
    2) Shadow Teleport + Stealth
    3) Becoming Ethereal or a Shadow for a brief time
    4) Briefly reflecting half damage (a sort of "fight fire with fire" concept).
    5) Sprouting batlike, shadow wings and arching in the air

    Endless possibilities. Hire me for your concept designer. Please.

    Shameless plug Trace. Shameless!

    Back on Topic, I also agree with the Sprint transferral to a Teleport / Dodge. I worry that Warlocks will not have a place in PvP due to the fact that they have little to no avoidance available.

    Being able to self heal means nothing if you cannot effectively avoid CC.
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  • azrael4271azrael4271 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i recently had an idea about the "shift" mechanic that might fit the bill for what players want:

    Shadow Step: You step into the Shadows, moving a short distance and gaining concealment for a brief period. (My personal suggestion would be about the distance of HR shift, with a 1 sec concealment following)

    this would give the 'lock a unique ability for the class: the ability to shed aggro by shifting. Which, to me, fits the class thematically

    I think this is the best idea yet
  • hydropriesthydropriest Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    the shift idea is a good one, the run and walk animation need a lot of work as well as the idle animations and such, i also agree with the idea of making them look more arrogant, possibly not looking down, but looking up to signify the idea of.. "Yeah, I have power, more than you. What are you going to do about it, please.. humor me." right now it seems more like.. zombie-mode, the walk animation, while not used by everyone, is used by a large chunk of people.. myself included, you could give them something more similar to.. the rogue, posture-wise, for that aspect of things.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Hey guys, we have a bunch of bug fixes and changes coming in the next week or so. We really want consuming your curse to feel much better than it does and so we are reinforcing that with some changes to many powers that remove curses from targets, as well as some changes to Infernal Spheres and Dreadtheft to make them a little more intuitive.

    *Awesome Stuff*


    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
    Awesome Crush!

    Thank you all for listening, you really are fixing the issues that are needed... Super sweet! :cool:
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  • orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    the shift idea is a good one, the run and walk animation need a lot of work as well as the idle animations and such, i also agree with the idea of making them look more arrogant, possibly not looking down, but looking up to signify the idea of.. "Yeah, I have power, more than you. What are you going to do about it, please.. humor me." right now it seems more like.. zombie-mode, the walk animation, while not used by everyone, is used by a large chunk of people.. myself included, you could give them something more similar to.. the rogue, posture-wise, for that aspect of things.

    I fully agree. That is much closer to what I'd want my warlock's stance to look then then the current one which currently gives the idea of "Ugh...brainsss".
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  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i recently had an idea about the "shift" mechanic that might fit the bill for what players want:

    Shadow Step: You step into the Shadows, moving a short distance and gaining concealment for a brief period. (My personal suggestion would be about the distance of HR shift, with a 1 sec concealment following)

    this would give the 'lock a unique ability for the class: the ability to shed aggro by shifting. Which, to me, fits the class thematically

    Since Cryptic likes to copy abilities and mechanics in-between their games I dont see why the SW cant get this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OjsVd7301k

    It is already available in Champions Online and fits perfectly with the whole ' slip into the shadows and move unnoticed ' theme
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  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'm only gonna comment on this sprint matter just once:

    I think it's recycled, and leaves much to be desired. The current sprint mechanic looks to a BETA player such as me dangerously last-minute thrown into the pot kind of thing:

    Flames = Scroll of Deathly Aura (from the Valindra Invasion event)
    Dimmed surroundings = Lurker's Assault (TR Daily)
    Sprint action = GWF shift

    So I can think of two things: (1) because the devs are really hoping to prolong testing time, they bothered at all to put a "placeholder shift ability" until they can develop a proper one. All for the sake of early release on preview. (2) It's just plain lazy and recycled.


    You decide.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Feedback :
    Soul Puppet :change the attack of soul puppet to ranged and fix the soul puppet crit rate (summoned always crit or summoned never crit).
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Feedback: Attack Animation
    I know the hunchback has been beaten to death but not sure how much this has been mentioned, if at all, but please don't keep the reverse grip on the blade. It looks absolutely unnatural.

    Please make the attack animation like a duelist. Think Harry Potter Dueling but instead of wands they use blades. Ironically enough this is how Makos himself is depicted in the CGI trailer. The fist pumping attack animation looks horribly borrowed from the cleric and is really, really unbefitting for a warlock.


    EDIT -

    Upon further thought I think the duelist type of personality would be a great overall theme for all animations. Right now it seems like the thought process was to make them brooding and intimidating. While the animation has been joked as the hunchback walk I see a lot of the loose italian "tough guy" walk mixed in (example: Fonzie). I think that's the biggest problem, the animations all around seem, at best, like something a street fighter/brawler would do although more closely looks like Big Foot's walk.

    If the animations were more akin to a fencer or duelist it would both be unique and still achieve a sinisterish visual. For example, instead of taking cues from world domination comedies like Doctor Evil take cues from Count Dooku. Christopher Lee developed the character based on his personal experience fencing.

    Notice the low energy, precise movements typically keeping the hilt close to the chest with all attacks directed directly in front of the body? This is how I envision a Warlock's fighting style. Almost like a rogue but while the rogue is based on a boxer which is very light on the feet the warlock should always be sure footed and precise.

    Avatar's waterbending is very similarly developed. It is a very minimalist style focused on precision over brute strength.

    I am sure there are people who would think warlocks should be more maniacal and care free in attacks but personally I think most evil(ish) characters are portrayed better as minimalists. Not because they don't enjoy using their power but because they never seem to think their enemies are worthy to experience or see their true potential. How many movies have the good guys win only because the antoganist don't give 100% effort into defeating the protagonist?

    And in the opposite spectrum, the warlocks who are not evil(ish) being minimalist also makes sense as they would either fear losing their 'humanity' if they give in to the power or fear hurting others while using it.


    So if you agree with this then consider how a duelist would walk in an out of combat.
    Ide out of combat - Confident (no hunching over) but looking observant to suroundings.
    Walk out of combat - To me I would say confident and minimalist. Calm yet serious, stiff, looking like they are ready to respond to a threat at a moment's notice.
    Run out of combat - determined. Running has to be getting to a location for a reason. In short, don't do anything flashy, just have them run looking like they are putting as little effort as possible into it. Probably as closer to a speed walk than a true run.
    In Combat Idle - On Guard. Seriously On Guard. No holding the blade upside down 3 feet away from the body...
    Run in combat - On guard version of the out of combat animation.
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Shadow sprint : maybe I don't know how to use it (never played GWF), but while I sprint through traps I always get hit, there's no "dodge" or "immune" effect.
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  • midnightfang93midnightfang93 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    relativity wrote: »
    Shadow sprint : maybe I don't know how to use it (never played GWF), but while I sprint through traps I always get hit, there's no "dodge" or "immune" effect.

    That's because it doesn't do either of those. It just lets you move slightly faster for a very short time with a bit more defense (+30% DR). If you are lagging, screw you, you get hit anyways even if you ran clear out of the red.

    Edit: Also, its usually better for me to run behind the enemy when you want to avoid something (unless its an AoE surrounding the enemy) since running away from them doesn't work 90% of the time due to lock on.
  • asmodeus451asmodeus451 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    That's because it doesn't do either of those. It just lets you move slightly faster for a very short time with a bit more defense (+30% DR). If you are lagging, screw you, you get hit anyways even if you ran clear out of the red.

    and ^THIS^ right here (specifically the part about lagging) is why 'locks need a proper dodge, not some re-skinned sprint
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  • lectorkinglectorking Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    My english is bad, so pls, be patient:).Current SW's shift option doesn't look good enough, such class need something special ability, not like GWF sprint. In my opinion it should be reworked. Maybe like this: When press shift, SW get special form (mystic form for example) and while staying in this form SW are immune to any control effect, get 30/40/50 DR, can't do any damage (which means that can't use any at will, encounter or daily powers), increased run speed; to change form player have to press shift and animation should be between 0,5-1s to prevent quick using of powers. Using special form drain stamina.Maybe it's far from perfect, but currently SW looks like a hybrid of many classes. Again, sorry for my bad english.
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bug: Wraith's Shadow
    The description says this power "deals an additional damage on the last tick," but it doesn't, it ticks 4 times for the same amount of damage.
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  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Damnation and fury feat paths looks very under powered a lot of weak and almost useless feats there i did not played warlock to much but atm i can only see healing path to work for pve and pvp
  • cariosdangercariosdanger Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    hitmark wrote: »
    Apparently pact blades from quest chests do not have all their flags properly set.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?701261-2-Main-hand-s-equiped
    Thanks. That explains why the non-quest blade that I checked worked properly.

    I had a feeling that they were aware of the problem but I didn't want to risk them getting bored and coming up with more nerfs. ;):)
  • lococatt91lococatt91 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 162 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    I realize its preview and may be cleaned up a bit. The animations for all casting is very clunky. Especially stopping to cast a curse with tab ability. It would be alot smoother if it was an instant tag you could cast while in motion.

    This class seems to be the ranged equivalent of a TR. I would ask you to consider some AE damage and CC. Maybe cloud of darkness similar to smoke bomb. Also maybe a pestilence type effect that spreads to nearby mobs from a cursed target. Basically something to do AE damage.

    The sprint ability is lame and is just going to get SWs killed.

    I would consider adding a snaring ability to some of the SW encounters or the tab ability. Currently there is no way to keep mobs or enemy players off you.

    Overall the SW just seems weak. Its like your trying to create a half assed pet class but the puppets are way too weak and unresponsive so you end up with a poor single target cw. I just dont see any place/role this class is going to fill.
  • tokksss358tokksss358 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 7
    edited July 2014
    Bug: Feat Soul Desecration
    Soul puppet dissipate after 5 hits
  • jwmousejwmouse Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 52
    edited July 2014
    onodrain wrote: »
    Infernal Spheres bug

    Hit the button once and you get the spheres. Hit it again and all the remaining spheres around you fly off at one random target. The tooltip does not mention a secondary effect from hitting the control button twice. I have noticed the spheres properly giving a curse sometimes. But the tooltip needs to properly reflect what the ability does.

    Soul Puppet

    The puppet only lasts until it strikes 5 times or 120 seconds, Whichever is less. While you have a soul puppet, if you cast a spell that summons one, it only adds a buff to your existing one that gives it plus 20% damage. That buff stacks up to 5 times and lasts 20 seconds. But your soul puppet does its 5 hits well before you could do any relevant buffing to it. It would be much more useful if the soul puppet's timer was reset each time you summoned one. As it currently stands, the soul puppet expires too soon, imho.

    At lvl 60 there is a feat that makes the puppet not expire after 5 hits also when it dies u can revive him with a hit on any mob plus he heals so get to 60
  • zomdzomd Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'm only 17, but these are my thoughts on a couple powers so far:

    Warlock's Curse




    Suggested Change:

    Recasting Warlock's Curse on a target that's already affected by Warlock's curse spreads the curse to up to two additional targets. If 3 targets are already affected by Warlock's Curse, recasting on an already afflicted target has no effect.

    I think that'd really improve its usability.


    Dreadtheft

    I think this power would work better as a toggle until the timer runs out rather than having to hold it down.
  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    zomd wrote: »
    I'm only 17, but these are my thoughts on a couple powers so far:

    snip

    Dreadtheft

    I think this power would work better as a toggle until the timer runs out rather than having to hold it down.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?701011-Official-Feedback-Thread-Scourge-Warlock&p=8347091&viewfull=1#post8347091
  • zomdzomd Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Nvm about that one then. Thanks Rustlord. :)
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    jwmouse wrote: »
    At lvl 60 there is a feat that makes the puppet not expire after 5 hits also when it dies u can revive him with a hit on any mob plus he heals so get to 60

    I think he just not realised the pupped die from single critical attack from the lowest tier mob.
    To summon y need to wait 15 sec .


    Feedback:
    This is why i ask to make it ranged or make it so! The puppet share they masters stats and hp.

    Anyone love summoners its a fantastic new addon in NW and rise SW to somone uniq and not just a copy of DC/GWF/CW .
    But we expect more from a summoner.
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
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