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(Class Build) Rust's Reflect TR

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    rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    f2pma wrote: »
    great build that looks awsome.
    cant wait for the vid
    btw how does that black ice drain work.

    hi brandom me and this dude are always against all that concern combat TRs but when i see your name and love you put writing the guide i decided to give it a read and omfg it sure did worth it.
    But let me ask, you wrote:
    Purified Absorption: The way that this buff works is somewhat similar to barkshield. Only, unlike Barkshield, taking damage does not deplete the charge until it has shielded you for a total of 800 damage every 3 seconds. If a charge is not fully depleted in 3 seconds, you will be healed per charge for 600 HP (300 after HD). Interestingly this shield behaves against DoT much the same way Barkshield does. Let's say you receive 500 damage much lower than the shield value, you will see a damage floater of 0, and the subsequent DoT will all tick for 0 damage. Often enough, Purified Absorption will activate on Bilethorn poison so that it ticks for 0 damage and does not harm your stealth meter! Purified Absorption has an uptime of 15 seconds every 60 seconds. It has a lowered proc chance when in cooldown and has 100% chance to activate when not in cooldown.

    i would like to have proof of the underlined or at least an explanation. How are you so sure?

    Purified Siphon: This buff does exactly what the tooltip says. It has an activation chance and cooldown similar to Purified Absorption. Its heals, while affected by healing depression, is multiplied by the number of nearby enemies. This heals between 1500-3000 HP if it activates on a single target, 2400-4800 on two targets, and 3300-6600 on three targets. Realistically you would be lucky to proc it on two targets. The latter becomes a possibility when you are being focused.

    about purified siphon. i like it. i tested the corrupted version to order to have an enforced duelist flurry...but internal cooldown was 40 seconds. What about this? is really useful?

    NOTE: when you are under healing depression, going stealthed is not enough to lose it.
    you have to stealth but you have to stay stealth for 8 seconds...something that doesnt seem to be possible with this build. i would say impossible. So this lead to have some feats points wasted, for example those 5 on the temporary hitpoints ones.

    NOTE 2: those 3 feat points in enforced encounters are wasted. you love lashing blade, ok. but you want to land it in stealth. so...you have a feat that gives you 6% damage more on everything "leaving stealth" for 4 seconds. Why dont use it?

    NOTE 3: The main things about combat trs and what makes them fun to most people is that they can dish out some more or less significant damages pvp wise (where 30k are usually enough to kill stuffs). Looking at your stats it doesnt seem you have that killing power. i can be wrong tho.

    NOTE 4: I m not sure you can handle a node against 2/3 people with a build like that. But this is probably bull**** so just skip this last note.

    Good job in any case!
    pls answer to my red and green doubts, it would help my tr and hr

    edit: i just realized this post of mine can seem rude but was not my intention. i add myself to those asking for a gameplay vid.

    keliandra
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    morenthar wrote: »
    If I may impart one piece of wisdom when fighting them, DO NOT bother with PoTB. Heck, PotB is just an inconvenience to me. So if I'm not afraid of it, guess what a full-on deflect build TR is doing when they see those daggers trigger...

    I hop in place annoyingly to provoke Clouds of Steel, then immediately pop ITC. And wait for the TR to unstealth himself.
    rayrdan wrote: »
    snip

    No worries. That's perfectly fine. You have highlighted some of my concerns as well.

    On Purified set bonuses: I haven't collected enough sample data to be sure. This is how I first observed the behavior to be, and I would correct myself as soon as I have solid facts.

    On other things:

    1. In choosing Berserk Vitality I've endlessly debated myself over if Healing Depression was a big matter to it. My stealth does not last 10 seconds enough to remove the debuff, and yes it gives HP for half the amount. As I play in the early days of this build, I'm trying to work out a better alternative in the Scoundrel or Saboteur tree. These 10pts are my initial choices only, and can be improved upon based from your feedback.

    2. Cunning Ambusher is indeed more useful than Endless Assault just by how often I blink in and out of stealth, I may always have this buff. I'm starting to be less attached to my 15-20K auto crits on LB since I haven't been using it much lately. You're right that 6% damage after leaving stealth is a more sensible choice.
    I'd hate for my averageness to overshadow the potential of this build. I'm not the best-skilled player type, has bad ping and kind of stuck with silly fingers on the keyboard.

    3. I have low damage output, there's no denying that. And my most powerful at-will, Duelist Flurry is incredibly hard to hit out of stealth. On the plus side, I can reflect enough damage against squishy classes to make up for this difference. I've played this build for three days, and so far what I've accomplished is a stalemate against the best GWFs. It was always a landslide victory against other classes 1v1. My mode of killing does not differ from most permas. I kill by attrition.

    4. Honestly 2v1 or 3v1 is not the problem. It's the class composition. I want to highlight this early on that I've discovered a potential weakness against an RoE CW. They invalidate all that is integral in my build, which is defense, and force my hand on ITC. My countering tactic as of now is to kill the CW as soon as entering battle.

    I'm not very video-savvy but as promised I will be recording some stuff today. I apologize in advance if turns out to be black n white, with static noise and has black borders all over--I'm no expert on these things haha :D
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    reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    This seems like a great guide, I'm just worried that with how close Mod 4 is, and I think there will be lots of changes to TRs then this kind of TR might be pretty shortlived, but we'll have to see.
    It's not my kind of playstyle though, I prefer to be a glass canon than a tank. But for now I'm just a glass XD Let's hope we'll get some more damage with mod 4.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    reiwulf wrote: »
    This seems like a great guide, I'm just worried that with how close Mod 4 is, and I think there will be lots of changes to TRs then this kind of TR might be pretty shortlived, but we'll have to see.
    It's not my kind of playstyle though, I prefer to be a glass canon than a tank. But for now I'm just a glass XD Let's hope we'll get some more damage with mod 4.

    Not necessarily. If we know anything, it's that modules are being released in a steady pace. The next one is only coming to Preview way much earlier than before because we've all voiced out how Preview Testing should have taken more time. Many bugs that didn't make it to live this module were last minute fixes--such as spammable Hunter's Teamwork/Careful Attack on multiple targets etc etc. Nobody had in fact tested the Black Ice set bonuses because it took 35 days to craft them--nobody bothered on Preview.

    I believe that is what an early Preview release of Module 4 is aimed at. Not that it's right on our doorstep.

    On other matters, I was able to record a pug match today. I'll be uploading it tonight. ^^
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    rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    reiwulf wrote: »
    This seems like a great guide, I'm just worried that with how close Mod 4 is, and I think there will be lots of changes to TRs then this kind of TR might be pretty shortlived, but we'll have to see.
    It's not my kind of playstyle though, I prefer to be a glass canon than a tank. But for now I'm just a glass XD Let's hope we'll get some more damage with mod 4.
    they dont want you to do damage. so if something will happen i would expect some perma nerfs without any rework at all to any feats, power or class features. not to talk about survivability tools.
    because this is how cryptic does things: fast and too late.
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
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    heavenclaimyouheavenclaimyou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I made a break from NW for some monthes, i back and see your video and honnestly ...it makes me sad .

    When you made your rogue and choose this class did you really expect to play him as a warrior with just lower damage than them and the same insane survivability ? i bet you don't .

    In my opnion your build works perfectly for the actual meta AND with people who basically don't have yet a good gear as you have now .
    Nevertheless, the ice Stuff give you a huge buff of survivability to allow you to focus on offensive things and i'm sad you don't use this opportunity .

    I'm not nostradamus but i guess when poeple will have enough stuff your DPS won't be enough but their dps will be enough to shut you down .
    Delete the Perma Stealth Please !
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I made a break from NW for some months

    You missed the memo how hard all our damaging powers have been nerfed.

    More importantly, the build comes in different flavors. See the section below and scroll to Spike Damage Dealer since you also missed that part.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?691441-Module-3-Rustlord-s-Reflect-TR&p=8196781&viewfull=1#post8196781
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    letojarred1letojarred1 Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    This makes me wanna build a new TR! but re-acquiring the boons and stuff is very gruesome work <,< NOT to mention collecting BI gears. But the upcoming ner- rework on stealth will make this build a good viable option.
    StrawberryCheesecake TR
    BlackberryCheesecake CW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CheeseCake House :o
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    f2pmaf2pma Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    the vid quality could be better other than that build is great.
    there are many ways to play this tr and best of all it works.
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    bozebambozebam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Nice work Rustlord :)

    i was always interested in deflect/semi-perma build because i dont like perma-stealth. I know its less competitive, but its enough for me to pug.

    I plan to use purified weapons to have more deflect but i feel the armor way to tanky ( even if its appropriate to pvp, i agree ).
    I doesnt look like a TR but a massive hp tank ^^

    I also have a question :
    What do you think about the 4 pieces bonus set ? Is it really worth it ? I read it proc only once in a fight or have a 3-4 min CD.

    I was thinking, if the 4 pieces bonus set was so bad ( and use it only for the stats ), maybe a 2purified/2corrupted mix could be good to get more balanced stats. ( i always preferred 4/4 set to get the bonus but if that bonus sucks why not 2/2 ... )

    Thanks for your previous, and next, feedback !
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    bozebam wrote: »
    I also have a question :
    What do you think about the 4 pieces bonus set ? Is it really worth it ? I read it proc only once in a fight or have a 3-4 min CD.

    In fact it's the 4 piece set bonus from the armor that's activating quite often. Notice the 0 damage floaters were coming from Purified Absorption. It's become really important for the build because right now DoT comprises nearly half the damage you take in PvP. And Purified Absorption practically absorbs all DoT for 0 damage. I think the in-combat 3-4 minute bug reports could have been isolated to the corrupted sets, or perhaps the weapon sets. Damage immunity = not affected by healing depression.

    Every 3 seconds over 15 seconds (45-60s cd), you will absorb 800 damage. If the initial damage you absorb comes from a DoT, all subsequent hits of that DoT will tick for damage - 800.

    Example 1: 10 x Bilethorn stacks (160) - 800 = 0 damage; 1600 damage absorbed
    Example 2: 10 x Conduit of Ice ticks (500) - 800 = 0 damage; 5000 damage absorbed

    So if you think of it, the armor is in fact absorbing a cr*pload of damage.
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    bozebambozebam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Ok, thanks for that details. Ill check more the video to see the bonus set proc.

    The future fix to bilethorn could make the bonus stronger. And the fix on armor pen + DoT could made that set bonus more needed !
    It's only sad to see that the META is often about to tank more and more the damage

    Ill try purified weapons + profound scoundrel first and later purified armor maybe. Anyway im a casual pvper and profound or BI gear couldnt made a big difference against better geared/builded pvper :)

    But its good to see another TRs playstyle
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    guille23mxguille23mx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hi Rust.
    So for the ones that Wonder... youre rocking Radiant 9 in all of your defense slots... and what are you using n your Offense Slots?
    Darks? Silverys?
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    heavenclaimyouheavenclaimyou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    guille23mx wrote: »
    Hi Rust.
    So for the ones that Wonder... youre rocking Radiant 9 in all of your defense slots... and what are you using n your Offense Slots?
    Darks? Silverys?

    i assume it's silver , he said in that guide he need tons of crits .
    Delete the Perma Stealth Please !
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    pandora1xpandora1x Member Posts: 725 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Didn't watch the video. Stopped at around half (?). Quality hurt my eyes lol no hate.

    I guess nothing beats a Bile TR since he made you run away despite the huge HP..... :/
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    pandora1x wrote: »
    Didn't watch the video. Stopped at around half (?). Quality hurt my eyes lol no hate.

    I guess nothing beats a Bile TR since he made you run away despite the huge HP..... :/

    Sorry about the lagginess. I didn't die that match, and that not-running-away clip was in fact the best part to show the resilience of this build (no artifact, pure immunity/regen). I disengaged while waiting for cooldowns, did a 180 when I had 100% immunity to damage, absorbed bilethorn, and healed back incredibly fast.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86BZ2oqs9hU&t=7m45s

    At least watch between 7:45 and 8:45. The bile TR was amazingly good but he couldn't kill me if he tried. Perma can only hurt me with a daily, and his Critical Whirlwind of Blades only did max 12500! I have 40,000 HP. His PotB, CoS tickled me and I dodged every DF. Again, I'm sorry for the video lag. I did warn you it was my first attempt to record, but I challenge the validity of pandora's response since he hasn't seen the whole thing.
    guille23mx wrote: »
    Hi Rust.
    So for the ones that Wonder... youre rocking Radiant 9 in all of your defense slots... and what are you using n your Offense Slots?
    Darks? Silverys?

    I have Azures. I wish I had rank 9 haha! I have rank 7. But I'm experimenting on a possibly more effective ring setup that reduces my HP to 38,500 lately, so I might eventually think of rank 9 in defense slots.
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    krazypunk117krazypunk117 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hey Rust keep up with the updates, I'm currently farming for the black ice gear, made all the armor pieces except for chest piece, need to refine more raw BI and not going to spend on getting more gauntlets personally. Also need to farm Beholder for the MH, have no luck so far but yea your build seems really interesting to me. I've always been a fan of being really tanky and this awesome for that. Btw I know this is for PvP but how does it do in PvE?
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hey Rust keep up with the updates, I'm currently farming for the black ice gear, made all the armor pieces except for chest piece, need to refine more raw BI and not going to spend on getting more gauntlets personally. Also need to farm Beholder for the MH, have no luck so far but yea your build seems really interesting to me. I've always been a fan of being really tanky and this awesome for that. Btw I know this is for PvP but how does it do in PvE?

    I wear my old Profound gear to PvE, put some cheap enchants in it for offense. The upside is, with companions and such you can facetank most damage in PvE, not needing ITC/SS so you can focus on all damaging encounter rotations. I'm able to rotate DS, PotB, LB and with Vorpal it does enough PvE worthy damage.
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Kudos for putting the time into finding a possible alternative.

    but I am not sold until I can see you out perform some of the TR's on the upper echelon of the rankings.

    I'll keep an eye on this.

    Thank you, I'm looking towards acquiring a new Perfect Bilethorn (I'm still using P.Vorpal) to personally practice the Anti-Perma Setup here http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?691441-Module-3-Rustlord-s-Reflect-TR&p=8196781&viewfull=1#post8196781 and post a video as soon as I do so! It works in theory and plays out perfectly in my head, I understand the need to show this on video and I'm definitely working towards that!

    PS: Pardon the exclamations, this is something I myself am very excited about. And as it comes with any potential META, work is involved. :)

    Cheers!
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    guille23mxguille23mx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Thx for the Update Buddy! Keep up the good work!
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    gman118gman118 Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hey Rust,what are you raking for last 2 boons of IWD(could only find first 3)
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    erdokanerdokan Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Question: Would this build still be effective with the ancient spymaster set rather than the purified BI weapons? I got the gloves but I fear that I won't be as lucky to receive the mh from beholder anytime soon. The spymaster set bonus also adds 450 crit and based on what you wrote, this might be a welcome bonus?

    Thanks for writing this by the way, it's just a shame that everything is so defence based nowadays seeing as it makes the fights longer/dragged out. Pretty much forced to choose this path though if survivability gets major buffs while the offensive options remain the same or even get nerfed over time. It has gotten to the point that defence based builds can just out-tank/heal even the highest possible all-out DPS builds :\
    David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    gman118 wrote: »
    Hey Rust,what are you raking for last 2 boons of IWD(could only find first 3)

    I have the 500 Power/stamina as the 4th and Rousing Warmth for the 5th.
    erdokan wrote: »
    Question: Would this build still be effective with the ancient spymaster set rather than the purified BI weapons? I got the gloves but I fear that I won't be as lucky to receive the mh from beholder anytime soon. The spymaster set bonus also adds 450 crit and based on what you wrote, this might be a welcome bonus?

    Yes, Ancient Spymaster weapons are good replacements for the BI weapon set. Note also that the set bonus from Purified weapons have a one minute cooldown and affected by HD, while the +450 Critical of AS adds a much needed damage boost.

    Update 6/26/2014: Changed character sheet image with new fashion set, because there are things more important than PvP. And you should dress the part. Recommend Waterdhavian Shirt dyed with Ethereal Skies pack; goes well with DC dyed Courtesan's Bottoms and Wedding Headpiece. :D
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    lwedarlwedar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Rust have you tried this build with perfect negation/Feytouched and using lifesteal in the for all the black ice enchantments?
    "we all love this game and want it to thrive"
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    tankinatorfrtankinatorfr Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 107 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2014
    Happy to see an alternative to perma-stealth.
    Well explained.

    But I am quite septic, mostly because in any game, my reflex is always to dodge attack, not to survive them.
    But some details look strange for me :

    -3 points in Shadow strikes ? What is the use of having +20% of damage on this weak attack ? Do you really need to have the power at more than level 1 ? In my opinion, those are two point witch can be used for something else. But maybe I miss something ?

    -
    "the possibility of equipping Vorpal and Plaguefire enchantments can" "compensate for this issue". "The build initially suffers from lack of critical chance but this was overcome by stacked Dexterity, Executioner feats and a Master Infiltrator class feature."

    Yes... but perma-stealth can do this too... so, you do not compensate, you just make a "TR tank" and give him regular TR DPS system.
    I am not contesting your well planed build, but you are wrong when you say that you compensate, because a perma-stealth rogue can use nearly the same build. I can't be sure without testing, of course, but my talents build is quite similar to your, only some little difference appearing from time to time, and I often (depending of the situation :rolleyes: ) play perma-stealth or semy-perma-stealth in pvp, so, I don't see how your build can "compensate for the issue"...


    Also, There is a lot of other points witch disturb me, but it is probably because I am mostly looking for PvE builds, using stealth as a permanent damage buff and a way to avoid the threat, and playing PvP only from time to time.
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    squibosquibo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    great thread, great info
    Jamaica
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    nallifnallif Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Anybody else notice Rustlord's character has Field Medic title?
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    nallif wrote: »
    Anybody else notice Rustlord's character has Field Medic title?

    Self-heals counts for plenty, especially if you do a lot of skirmishes.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    nallif wrote: »
    Anybody else notice Rustlord's character has Field Medic title?

    Thank you for noticing! I heal with love. :D

    <3
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